how to prevent slamkong abuse without nerfing Cloudwalker or Melee Influence

[LuckyNecro]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb sunderthefirmament:

I think that Wukong and Cloudwalker are largely favored for getting right back into the air after a slam as opposed to waiting for the slam attack recovery animation to finish and then jumping.

 

Although I don't use slamkong, I do use melee slams quite a bit.  For mobility, not for damage.  And when I'm focused on mobility, I will almost always cancel the recovery animation of a slam attack, typically with a shift roll.  Sometimes, I roll before I hit the ground, preventing the slam entirely.  It still does what I need it to do in that it gets me to a downward destination faster than falling.  I think slamkongs cancel the slam recovery with Cloudwalker, which allows them to immediately start moving, gain elevation, and then slam again.

For me it look like the recovery animation isn't part of the slam attack and its only comes when doing nothing ore want simply walk away, when you use a ability how it is with cloudwalk but also every other ability ore simply switching in operater there is no recovery animation. I tested also waht is faster Wukong: slam 2 slam, ore any Warfame: slam jump slam, and it feels like same fast, when there is a risk to cancel the first slam attack when using wukongs 2 and with using slam 2 slam the weapon dosen't even move but makes a second attack and both feels very useless. For me the winner from what i have teted was Volt with his 2 and using transference in to operater what needs a littlebit skill.

And so i think this time it is not a Wukong problem and more a slam attack thing.

 

I also don't realy use slam attack most time more buy exident when i somehow *in the air* and after i have teted this things i have now a tinnitus and headache...

[Zakkhar]

On 2024-08-23 at 3:58 PM, Numerounius said:

I thought it was a combination of everything that is causing slam to have its absurd damage? Don't think you can put a cooldown on just one of them.

Nira mod set,

Slam mods.

Unique effects/Incarnon mode.

Warframe abilities.

Actual build mods.

Modded that. It doesnt do absurd damage - nowhere near compared to Contagion or certain Khora setups. Not after Arca Titron nerf:

 

Cloudwalker? Not needed at all. Melee influence? What for? Slam has already fine range.

[Marvelous_A]

I miss the Iron Vault-Glaive Prime Wukong, all Wukong metas after it are lame.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

On 2024-08-23 at 7:09 AM, sunderthefirmament said:

While I'm sure it is a lot of things combining to form rather massive damage over a widespread area, it can be traced back to update 35.5's changes to slam damage.  The cooldown I'm envisioning could just be for that.  Slam attacks would only get their radial damage after a brief cooldown or after a certain number of normal melee attack hits.  Or their radial damage could be significantly weakened on repeat.  I just think this is a better target for a nerf than Cloudwalker or Melee Influence.  Again though, I'm not sure a nerf is really called for.

I was honestly surprised there wasn't some kind of cooldown mechanic to make spamming slam attacks a bad idea. 

I mean they immediately nerfed Arca Titron, but just kind of ignored other stuff that allows you to abuse it? 

Realistically speaking, Wukong and other outliers probably just haven't been popular enough to warrant a nerf, but yeah a straight up cooldown for 3-5 seconds makes the most sense.

[(PSN)lord_makino234]

If they do nerf slamkong which is fun a playstyle that didn't exist before so it's pretty creative then they gotta buff the clone to use galvanized mods since you nerf basically another source of damage what it is the monke left with a clone that is capped on damage marking is mostly uses he eats up your ammo and he sucks with his stick cause we all know if the companion is not shooting he really isn't doing anything at all so nerf his slam build then your forced to allow him to use arcanes and galvanized for scaling cause guess what slamkong scales it does it extremely well and now we're trying to take it away without giving a playstyle that got nerfed but buffed up to use galvanized mods he would be basically still weaker but scales appropriately since it's not like you can put the archon shards for ability damage cause they don't work 

 

 

So in my opinion until we gut revenent and the other top frames thar easily scale we don't really need to take away basically his main damage and I don't really play wukong I play caliban but nerf slamkong buff clone to use galvanized mods and arcanes for scaling 

[(PSN)Cephalon_Scarlet]

They should just normalize slam attacks and not make them deal 700m+ per slam with titron and arcane influence at jade shadows release i had to stop playing titron and wukong because the damage was just too much

[MrDugan]

Not only have I never seen a slamkong in-game, I have never seen anyone using a repetitive slam build.  The only "meta" build that people complain about that I have seen is Sunder Titania.  I've seen tons of those.  They still don't bother me.

Here's my thing though.  When the KNukor was all the rage, it was over 20% usage with the higher mastery ranks.  20% is about what it takes to be high enough usage to be pervasive and get them to nerf it.  I saw plenty of them in that time.  It's down to 15% and lower for MR in the 20's and falls off for higher MR/LR as of last year, and I don't really see them that often anymore.  Most weapons and frames don't get to 10% usage on the stats DE provides.  That means that most of the time, the "meta" isn't even in use, tallying everyone together.  It already sucks to get nerfed just because several others like the same thing you do, even when MOST of the time people aren't running it.

The idea of having slam attacks with a nerf or a cooldown because a bunch of people in a specific region's servers are using it heavily is very irritating to me.  One region should not cause a nerf for everyone, especially when everyone isn't doing what they're doing.  And going back to what I said last paragraph, even with really high usage, MOST players aren't doing that.  It's a squeaky wheel.  Nerfing something that JUST got buffed into being relevant because of a squeaky wheel in ONE region is a horrible idea.

[Slayer-.]

50 minutes ago, MrDugan said:

Not only have I never seen a slamkong in-game, I have never seen anyone using a repetitive slam build.  The only "meta" build that people complain about that I have seen is Sunder Titania.  I've seen tons of those.  They still don't bother me.

<sup><sub>Here's my thing though.  When the KNukor was all the rage, it was over 20% usage with the higher mastery ranks.  20% is about what it takes to be high enough usage to be pervasive and get them to nerf it.  I saw plenty of them in that time.  It's down to 15% and lower for MR in the 20's and falls off for higher MR/LR as of last year, and I don't really see them that often anymore.  Most weapons and frames don't get to 10% usage on the stats DE provides.  That means that most of the time, the "meta" isn't even in use, tallying everyone together.  It already sucks to get nerfed just because several others like the same thing you do, even when MOST of the time people aren't running it.

The idea of having slam attacks with a nerf or a cooldown because a bunch of people in a specific region's servers are using it heavily is very irritating to me.  One region should not cause a nerf for everyone, especially when everyone isn't doing what they're doing.  And going back to what I said last paragraph, even with really high usage, MOST players aren't doing that.  It's a squeaky wheel.  Nerfing something that JUST got buffed into being relevant because of a squeaky wheel in ONE region is a horrible idea.</sub></sup>

Same, I've never seen a Wunkong beat his stick player, I've seen heaps of TitSunder in relic runs, I don't care what players are using to kill, the mission is being done.

[MrDugan]

29 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Same, I've never seen a Wunkong beat his stick player, I've seen heaps of TitSunder in relic runs, I don't care what players are using to kill, the mission is being done.

I'm so used to being at the front of the pack, that when I get a squad with TitSunder, I take it as an opportunity to be lazy and get carried.  It just doesn't bother me to have someone be faster than me, and get us to pulling that slot machine lever opening relics faster.