I feel like older arcane acquisition should be revised.

[MrDugan]

So I'm on a path to acquire one of each arcane at max rank.  I've become very familiar with the grind for each place they're obtained.  Some of them are pretty frustrating to farm, like ones from arbitration being low drop rate with no purchase option, and especially the ones from Little Duck.  I'm missing 4 full arcanes and 5 R0 of another.  That's 89 R0 arcanes I need to get.  They ONLY come from LD.  They are all 10k standing a pop.  That's nearly a million standing.  Which is 27 days of hitting the standing cap for an LR4.  It's also 75 runs of Exploiter, or 37 with a booster, since toroids are the only (reliable) way to get standing for LD.

The last couple of years have seen plenty of genuinely good systems put in place.  The ability to purchase things that RNG screws you on, like with the Citrine farm.  Places like the Zariman and Entrati Labs, where arcanes are obtainable in-mission as well as being purchasable.  These systems, especially the latter, are very good.  I actually really enjoy both Zariman and Lab content, including bounties, largely because of how well these systems work.  I would love to see elements of these things implemented in older content.  Because not only are the arcanes from LD more expensive on average than in say the Zariman (there are lower prices for some arcanes from Cavalero, where all arcanes from LD are at 10k, Cav's highest price.) but you can acquire them outside of just the shop.  This makes the grind feel genuinely good.  You are pretty much always making progress toward arcanes if you are playing in the Zariman.  With arcanes from LD, it's highly specific fights, and shop only, with high prices.  

I'd love to see more ways to acquire arcanes from Arbitration and LD.  The only other way currently is vosfor, and...  That has not been useful.  I trade in Acolyte arcanes, buy the pack that has Arby arcanes in it, and I get...  Acolyte arcanes back.

The grind for the arcanes from Ascension, Zariman, Cavia, and honestly even Duviri haven't been horrible.  But looking at a month of multiple Exploiter runs a day to finish off the LD arcanes has me wondering how much of a completionist I really am.  At least with Arbies I get endo when the arcanes don't drop.

[Quest]

very true

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, MrDugan said:

So I'm on a path to acquire one of each arcane at max rank.

You do not need each of the arcane on max rank. Plenty of them are unusable. Several are very niche. Some are perfectly fine on R0. 

2 hours ago, MrDugan said:

That's 89 R0 arcanes I need to get.

You do not NEED to get them. That is your own self imposed challenge. The word you are looking for is WANT.

2 hours ago, MrDugan said:

t least with Arbies I get endo when the arcanes don't drop.

At least? Endo is useless. So are all the arcanes from Arbitration.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Zakkhar:

You do not need each of the arcane on max rank. Plenty of them are unusable. Several are very niche. Some are perfectly fine on R0. 

You do not NEED to get them. That is your own self imposed challenge. The word you are looking for is WANT.

At least? Endo is useless. So are all the arcanes from Arbitration.

Yes they do need them

[dwqrf]

Il y a 7 heures, MrDugan a dit :

how much of a completionist I really am.

Arcane farming is fun. You gotta let yourself take as much time as needed. For example, I'm still a levl 4/5 on some legendary Duviri Arcanes, but I'm not in a hurry whatsoever, especially since they are going to release more Incarnon Adapters in Circuit Sp ; therefor making me it farm it for longer and enventually, drop all the arcanes I need to complete the sets.

But Arcane do have some sort of impact on your gameplay...

Have you tried farming Codex ? :D
Or Zone Cosmetics for that matter ? Hombask shop of useless pots and chairs was taking forever to complete with Zariman standing...

[MrDugan]

4 hours ago, dwqrf said:

Arcane farming is fun. You gotta let yourself take as much time as needed. For example, I'm still a levl 4/5 on some legendary Duviri Arcanes, but I'm not in a hurry whatsoever, especially since they are going to release more Incarnon Adapters in Circuit Sp ; therefor making me it farm it for longer and enventually, drop all the arcanes I need to complete the sets.

But Arcane do have some sort of impact on your gameplay...

Have you tried farming Codex ? :D
Or Zone Cosmetics for that matter ? Hombask shop of useless pots and chairs was taking forever to complete with Zariman standing...

That's very subjective.  Farming exploiter for standing for arcanes from LD is NOT fun to me.  It's one of the most tedious boss fights in any game I've played.

[dwqrf]

il y a 33 minutes, MrDugan a dit :

That's very subjective.  Farming exploiter for standing for arcanes from LD is NOT fun to me.  It's one of the most tedious boss fights in any game I've played.

That's because we did most of the standing farming at some time when Exploiter didn't exist, so we had to farm normal Toroid giving 1k each for days and weeks. Exploiter giving 12k was some insane shortcut, really welcomed. You can always go the old route again...

[ominumi]

It's a slow crawl. For Arbi arcane do Excavation. You should get one reward every 2 to 3 minutes with a dedicated group. Defense and Survival takes too long to get rewards.

[Voltage]

I just don't see a problem here. You want completionism, but not wanting to put in the time. Vendor shops are extremely bland, because every farm becomes too predictable compared to how things used to be farmed. I personally enjoy random drops that you farm over time as opposed to farming standing caps like it's a job to maximize progress. Also, you don't need to complete the entire game's Arcane collection in a single sitting. There's no harm in taking it slow to avoid burnout and work on other goals in the meantime.

Also, trading is always an available workaround to avoid content you don't enjoy. There's nothing stopping you from farming something you have fun with and buying these Arcanes for a trivial cost. Nothing in Warframe is expensive anymore besides high quality Riven Mods. Everything's been undermined over time or just saturated as less and less items are worth farming as time goes on.

Edited August 28 by Voltage

[MrDugan]

40 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I just don't see a problem here. You want completionism, but not wanting to put in the time. Vendor shops are extremely bland, because every farm becomes too predictable compared to how things used to be farmed. I personally enjoy random drops that you farm over time as opposed to farming standing caps like it's a job to maximize progress. Also, you don't need to complete the entire game's Arcane collection in a single sitting. There's no harm in taking it slow to avoid burnout and work on other goals in the meantime.

Also, trading is always an available workaround to avoid content you don't enjoy. There's nothing stopping you from farming something you have fun with and buying these Arcanes for a trivial cost. Nothing in Warframe is expensive anymore besides high quality Riven Mods. Everything's been undermined over time or just saturated as less and less items are worth farming as time goes on.

Everyone is focused on the completionist aspect (which is telling.) While ignoring the main point.  Grind has gotten much better, while older grind that wasn't good to start with is left festering. 

[quxier]

4 hours ago, Voltage said:

Also, trading is always an available workaround to avoid content you don't enjoy. There's nothing stopping you from farming something you have fun with and buying these Arcanes for a trivial cost. Nothing in Warframe is expensive anymore besides high quality Riven Mods. Everything's been undermined over time or just saturated as less and less items are worth farming as time goes on.

While I agree on general idea of trading it may not be for everyone. I've recently bought some missing arcanes (residual/theorem) to test for 50-100 in total. I don't think I will ever use them seriously except for testing & writing suggestions. I can buy missing parts. Not big problem. I guess it's not problem for you too. However for some people 100 plat is A LOT.

 

4 hours ago, MrDugan said:

Grind has gotten much better, while older grind that wasn't good to start with is left festering. 

Yeah.

What you have described is pretty chill. Like, ok, it's long. With booster you get like 12 standing per Profit taker? So around 18 rounds per maxed arcane. 1.5-2 hours per maxed arcane. So that's 15-20 hours total (at maxed rank) for 10 arcanes.

I've recently been farming residual/theorem arcanes. UGH. Not again. So you have 2.5 hours rotations so wait even 5 hours. Then do arcana version of Isolation vault. You cannot just do arcane. No. Do normal version (that mostly doesn't give you too much). Start arcana. Host migration - cannot start > restart whole process. There is update? Well, you cannot start. I should congratulate whoever made residual/theorem farm (and morgha/cortege too, but that's offtopic). You have that pretty interesting missions that you cannot or won't do.

[Voltage]

4 hours ago, MrDugan said:

Everyone is focused on the completionist aspect (which is telling.) While ignoring the main point.  Grind has gotten much better, while older grind that wasn't good to start with is left festering. 

I focused on that aspect because it's important. If you want 100%, you need to put in that added time.

"Better" to describe the direction of grind is subjective at best. Most "new" farms lean heavily on time-gating to throttle your progression, removing your agency as a player to make progress when you desire, the usage of FOMO to push you into farming so as not to miss a "rotation", and relying on vendor shops to hide poorly structured farms. There's very few updates in the last 5 years that don't fit this bill.

A major problem for Warframe is the lack of direction and value it places on long term account goals. This creates a scenario where most, if not all long term progression is player-created, and a massive chunk for the community gets upset when something takes longer than a week or two. You're looking to complete almost a decade worth of updates that have added Arcanes. There are many avenues to achieving this, with some skipping specific farms altogether (Arcane Dissolution and Trading). Instead of engaging in this thread, you probably could farmed enough Platinum to buy everything you're missing. I'm all for fixing massively broken reward structures, but Arcanes have been made easier and more trivial each passing year, to the point where they are just another mod slot with a fancy shape and duplicates to upgrade instead of Endo.

I just can't ever relate to these threads with how I play the game. I used to complain like this in 2015 and 2016 when I just started, but I've instead adopted the mentality that I don't need to finish everything in 5 seconds, and I can just fully complete systems in the game by putting in more time into that gameplay while utilizing alternate avenues when I'm not enjoying the gameplay loop.

I vastly prefer farms like Arbitration or ESO rotation rewards over "let me wait for X rotation to pop up" or "let me make sure I don't miss this scheduled mission for the next 4 months" to make the best progress. When the best progress is just playing the mode the most, it feels like you earned the completion. That's how I see it.

Edited August 29 by Voltage

[ominumi]

6 hours ago, MrDugan said:

Everyone is focused on the completionist aspect (which is telling.) While ignoring the main point.  Grind has gotten much better, while older grind that wasn't good to start with is left festering. 

Not sure how this has anything to do with arbitration arcane farming. Eidolon hunt is still a thing. How long will it take a new player to collect R5 of each arcane a Eidolon can drop? Even with Distillation existing.

[Quest]

5 minutes ago, ominumi said:

Not sure how this has anything to do with arbitration arcane farming. Eidolon hunt is still a thing. How long will it take a new player to collect R5 of each arcane a Eidolon can drop? Even with Distillation existing.

at this point (dissolution) is probably a faster farm for those than the eidolons themselves

[MrDugan]

3 hours ago, Voltage said:

I focused on that aspect because it's important. If you want 100%, you need to put in that added time.

"Better" to describe the direction of grind is subjective at best. Most "new" farms lean heavily on time-gating to throttle your progression, removing your agency as a player to make progress when you desire, the usage of FOMO to push you into farming so as not to miss a "rotation", and relying on vendor shops to hide poorly structured farms. There's very few updates in the last 5 years that don't fit this bill.

A major problem for Warframe is the lack of direction and value it places on long term account goals. This creates a scenario where most, if not all long term progression is player-created, and a massive chunk for the community gets upset when something takes longer than a week or two. You're looking to complete almost a decade worth of updates that have added Arcanes. There are many avenues to achieving this, with some skipping specific farms altogether (Arcane Dissolution and Trading). Instead of engaging in this thread, you probably could farmed enough Platinum to buy everything you're missing. I'm all for fixing massively broken reward structures, but Arcanes have been made easier and more trivial each passing year, to the point where they are just another mod slot with a fancy shape and duplicates to upgrade instead of Endo.

I just can't ever relate to these threads with how I play the game. I used to complain like this in 2015 and 2016 when I just started, but I've instead adopted the mentality that I don't need to finish everything in 5 seconds, and I can just fully complete systems in the game by putting in more time into that gameplay while utilizing alternate avenues when I'm not enjoying the gameplay loop.

I vastly prefer farms like Arbitration or ESO rotation rewards over "let me wait for X rotation to pop up" or "let me make sure I don't miss this scheduled mission for the next 4 months" to make the best progress. When the best progress is just playing the mode the most, it feels like you earned the completion. That's how I see it.

I have no idea how you could reach the conclusions you have without a lot of spite directed my way.  I am not "trying to complete a decade's worth of grind" in a short period of time.  I'm finishing a collection that's nearly complete.  That was JUST context.  You're blowing it out of proportion. 

 

The point is that LD ONLY has the time gated store front.  Meanwhile I can farm all the zariman arcanes I want (done, btw.) without a time gate, doing varied content, and STILL have access to the store that takes standing.  I'm simply asking for that to be applied to older content like LD where it's just a store and the faction standing is obtained from very limited gameplay.  I noticed what I perceived to be an issue because of my self imposed goal.  It is not part of the main point.  The main point is that the grind for those arcanes absolutely sucks, even with spreading it out.  It sucks because of things you're saying the newer grind does, when it's far worse than newer grind.

[RafMatador22]

1 hour ago, ominumi said:

Not sure how this has anything to do with arbitration arcane farming. Eidolon hunt is still a thing. How long will it take a new player to collect R5 of each arcane a Eidolon can drop? Even with Distillation existing.

I'm very sorry for any new players. I farmed most of the eidolon arcana, in the orphix venom event in 2020. Afterwards I only needed to do a few eidolon hunts, much less painful.

[ominumi]

9 hours ago, MrDugan said:

I have no idea how you could reach the conclusions you have without a lot of spite directed my way.  I am not "trying to complete a decade's worth of grind" in a short period of time.  I'm finishing a collection that's nearly complete.  That was JUST context.  You're blowing it out of proportion. 

 

The point is that LD ONLY has the time gated store front.  Meanwhile I can farm all the zariman arcanes I want (done, btw.) without a time gate, doing varied content, and STILL have access to the store that takes standing.  I'm simply asking for that to be applied to older content like LD where it's just a store and the faction standing is obtained from very limited gameplay.  I noticed what I perceived to be an issue because of my self imposed goal.  It is not part of the main point.  The main point is that the grind for those arcanes absolutely sucks, even with spreading it out.  It sucks because of things you're saying the newer grind does, when it's far worse than newer grind.

Yes now imagine grinding for Vox Solaris arcane with a daily Standing cap of 15,000 because Standing cap was tied to Mastery Rank on a much lower scale. Though we didn't need 21 arcane to get a R5. Just 11 was enough.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

vor 35 Minuten schrieb ominumi:

Yes now imagine grinding for Vox Solaris arcane with a daily Standing cap of 15,000 because Standing cap was tied to Mastery Rank on a much lower scale. Though we didn't need 21 arcane to get a R5. Just 11 was enough.

It was 10

[quxier]

10 hours ago, RafMatador22 said:

12 hours ago, ominumi said:

Not sure how this has anything to do with arbitration arcane farming. Eidolon hunt is still a thing. How long will it take a new player to collect R5 of each arcane a Eidolon can drop? Even with Distillation existing.

I'm very sorry for any new players. I farmed most of the eidolon arcana, in the orphix venom event in 2020. Afterwards I only needed to do a few eidolon hunts, much less painful.

Events are where I "farm" those arcanes. I was solo with Rent-a-mech during Orphix but I stil got some stuff. Gargole cry I was with team so it was eaasier. I've finished probably all arcanes (except useless) with week or 2 (I was farming Jade & co).

I've done some (team) eidolons & Orbs but it had MUCH LOWER loot.

So, yeah, if someone see event go try it at least.

[MrDugan]

2 hours ago, ominumi said:

Yes now imagine grinding for Vox Solaris arcane with a daily Standing cap of 15,000 because Standing cap was tied to Mastery Rank on a much lower scale. Though we didn't need 21 arcane to get a R5. Just 11 was enough.

I don't have to imagine, because I was there.  You're not even making a point here, you're just making an attempt to talk down to me.  

[ominumi]

49 minutes ago, MrDugan said:

I don't have to imagine, because I was there.  You're not even making a point here, you're just making an attempt to talk down to me.  

Then you understand it isn't the grind that is the issue. DE change arcane requiring 21 total for R5. You already grind out Zaw arcane. That's how it should of be like. 

[Voltage]

15 hours ago, MrDugan said:

I have no idea how you could reach the conclusions you have without a lot of spite directed my way.  I am not "trying to complete a decade's worth of grind" in a short period of time.  I'm finishing a collection that's nearly complete.  That was JUST context.  You're blowing it out of proportion. 

 

The point is that LD ONLY has the time gated store front.  Meanwhile I can farm all the zariman arcanes I want (done, btw.) without a time gate, doing varied content, and STILL have access to the store that takes standing.  I'm simply asking for that to be applied to older content like LD where it's just a store and the faction standing is obtained from very limited gameplay.  I noticed what I perceived to be an issue because of my self imposed goal.  It is not part of the main point.  The main point is that the grind for those arcanes absolutely sucks, even with spreading it out.  It sucks because of things you're saying the newer grind does, when it's far worse than newer grind.

The whole "sucks" part is subjective though, hence my explanation of long-term goals and alternatives like trading. Little Duck is trivial if you do Profit-Taker. Would you like me to just give you all the Little Duck Arcanes you're missing for free? It really wouldn't bother me. 

It's fine though, I expected to walk into this thread not being on the "right side" of the discussion because I find reducing grind to be the most boring change the game can make. 

[MrDugan]

4 hours ago, ominumi said:

Then you understand it isn't the grind that is the issue.

No, I don't automatically agree with you just because I've been playing for a long time.

I swear, no one is actually reading the post.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Prices should be based on the arcane colour, just like how they do it when Eidolon ones are available in events :

Bronze tier is the cheapest, then there's silver tier, then gold tier, then platinum tier. It already works like this in other shops too. I really don't see why this wasn't generalized in a QoL update.