Remove this standing limit

[MrInubis]

10 minutes ago, proevilz said:

I mean, you're saying the same thing effectively. 

If they come back, and do not interact with the standing system, how does that prove they came back 'because of it' ?

 

Its not the same thing, not even remotely. Also they do interract with it. You HAVE to do bounties or look for medalions in order to progress. The only thing that doesnt require that are the old syndicates.

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, proevilz said:

Yeah, you can't do it in one or two days, but there is no proof that people come back to the game JUST for that specific component. How do you know they're coming back for that, _specifically_ and not something else in the game?

And please, point out where I said "And players come back just to grind more standing!"  I made sure to point out that it is a reason, not the only reason like you continually insist that it must be in order for this system to have value.
From the posts you make it seems like you're saying if players aren't coming back solely to grind standing than it must not be a good system because sometimes they come back and don't grind standing at all.

I was making the point that because you literally cannot grab everything you want from a syndicate in one day you have to come back to the game later to grab what you want.

You want a shiny new mod or weapon from rank 5 of a new syndicate?  Well that's at a bare minimum 7 days if your LR4, and it's 10 days if you're MR15.  You need to come back to that syndicate for at least that long to get your reward from the system.
This is much longer than the 1 or 2 days it would take to get that same reward without a standing cap.

And that is the entire point of standing caps: To slow down player consumption of new stuff they want from 1-2 days to 7+ days.  Because the players that really want that new shiny weapon in that syndicate that just released, or the new mod to try out new builds on weapons, or whatever else new reward will come back day after day to work towards that goal until they achieve it.

Is it the only reason that they are coming back to the game?  Nope.  Nor is it meant to be.
But is it a reason that they are coming back to the game?  Yep, after all they want the new reward and can't get it yet because of standing limits.
It gives them another thing to do, not the only thing to do and come back to the game for.

And again: Just because standing isn't the sole and only reason that players come back to the game doesn't mean its doesn't work.

Edited September 13 by Tsukinoki

[proevilz]

13 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

How do you prove they didn't come back because of it ?
Fact is, a lot of people come back. And they play relatively short sessions but over extented period of time.

The burden of proof is on those who made the claim, not those who disagree with it.
 

[proevilz]

6 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Also they do interract with it.

Do they? 

Did I interact with it today when I came back?

 

[dwqrf]

il y a 8 minutes, proevilz a dit :

The burden of proof is on those who made the claim

Il y a 20 heures, proevilz a dit :

I have a feeling that for the majority of players, this isn't what is retaining them.

That's your claim.

[proevilz]

3 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

That's your claim.

I have a feeling, I'm not stating it as a fact. If anything, it's a counter-'claim'. 

I'm addressing those who made the claim in the beginning. 

[Dr_Mechano]

Whilst I get why the standing limit is in place, it's fine, it can stay.

We've had reduction passes on the items required for Solaris United, I feel like the Quills and Vox Solaris could also do with a pass. The Quills end up requiring something stupid like 50 Ediolon kills and if you're levelling up Quills, chances are you're not doing multiple Tridolon runs in a night. I mean jesus Rank 3 requires 10 of the bloody things and it gets worse from there.

You could easily slash the Toroid and Eidolon shard requirements by two thirds each rank.

Little Duck, at least, has the two orbs which drop either 6k or 12k rep toroids (with a double resource booster it will take you 8 Exploiter runs to get all the toroids you need to go from 2 to 5), though Exploiter required Thermia to be summoned which, in itself, is a boring grind solo since most people aren't running fractures and Profit Taker can be a ballache for new players.

[MrInubis]

48 minutes ago, proevilz said:

Do they? 

Did I interact with it today when I came back?

I dont care if you in particular did but others for sure. How else would you get Cavia or Entrati standing for example? How would you get better amp from Vox Solaris? You also dont think about the consequences of cap removal. Now you can get this 30k standing, without limit i bet there would be madman farming a milion a day and its not hyperbolic at all (1 highest entrati bounty nets you about 16k). You think prices would stay the same? You think the standing gains would stay? 

[proevilz]

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

I dont care if you in particular did but others for sure. How else would you get Cavia or Entrati standing for example? How would you get better amp from Vox Solaris? You also dont think about the consequences of cap removal. Now you can get this 30k standing, without limit i bet there would be madman farming a milion a day and its not hyperbolic at all (1 highest entrati bounty nets you about 16k). You think prices would stay the same? You think the standing gains would stay? 

Of cause you don't care because I've pulled myself out of your hypothetical 'they' group, becoming evidence to the contrary. 

Edited September 13 by proevilz

[Alpha_Tango]

I went through all of these standing caps, ofc I would not like anyone else to go through with it just to "control" anyone's appetite to consume content quickly.

If you're so enthused you'll come back, right? Otherwise, why stay for this hostage crap. It only means DE is doing something right although I seriously doubt it is for any players' sake. 

[MrInubis]

1 hour ago, proevilz said:

Of cause you don't care because I've pulled myself out of your hypothetical 'they' group, becoming evidence to the contrary. 

Individuals do not matter. They are not evidence at all. The only thing this proves is that you dont engage with half of the game at this point.

[proevilz]

41 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Individuals do not matter. They are not evidence at all. The only thing this proves is that you dont engage with half of the game at this point.

If individual accounts do not matter, then who are these phantom people you're talking about? They're individuals too - so 'they' dont matter either. 

I do engage with the content, just on my own time and pleasure. 

I come back most days to play the game in general, because it's fun.

Prematurely stopping me from doing so does not make me want to come back even more, but less. 

Edited September 13 by proevilz

[MrInubis]

4 minutes ago, proevilz said:

If individual accounts do not matter, then who are these phantom people you're talking about? They're individuals too - so 'they' dont matter either. 

I do engage with the content, just on my own time and pleasure. 

I come back most days to play the game in general, because it's fun.

Prematurely stopping me from doing so does not make me want to come back even more, but less. 

Because you have already finished it. You lost the reason to want to come back. Go on Zariman, start up bounty and tell me players do not engage with it. Players do because the game doesnt give them other choice. Standing cap is there to slow down progression and keep prices reasonable. Its that simple.

[proevilz]

3 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Because you have already finished it.

hmm...

On 2024-09-12 at 3:58 PM, proevilz said:

I'm MR17 now, and I still haven't completed all standing grinds.

 

4 minutes ago, kuciol said:

You lost the reason to want to come back.

hmm...

11 minutes ago, proevilz said:

I come back most days to play the game in general, because it's fun.

 

5 minutes ago, kuciol said:

 Standing cap is there to slow down progression and keep prices reasonable. Its that simple.

Prices of what exactly? 

[MrInubis]

16 minutes ago, proevilz said:

Prices of what exactly?

Mods, weapons, arcanes, lenses, frames etc. Now you can get 4 arcanes a day, you get them within 30 minutes tops. Now remove the cap and you could get unlimited amount of them. You think prices or standing gain would not change? Thats just one example.

Edited September 13 by kuciol

[proevilz]

22 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Mods, weapons, arcanes, lenses, frames etc. Now you can get 4 arcanes a day, you get them within 30 minutes tops. Now remove the cap and you could get unlimited amount of them. You think prices or standing gain would not change? Thats just one example.

 Limit the amount you can buy instead.

This allows players to progress at their own desired pace, whilst keeping the platinum economy unaffected since in this context, you'd only be able to buy the same amount with the cap in place.

This mechanic is already used within certain shops, so it's not new. 

 

Problem solved.

[dwqrf]

il y a 8 minutes, proevilz a dit :

 Limit the amount you can buy instead.

This allows players to progress at their own desired pace, whilst keeping the platinum economy unaffected since in this context, you'd only be able to buy the same amount with the cap in place.

This mechanic is already used within certain shops, so it's not new. 

 

Problem solved.

So you want to limit how much I can buy per day, while I like to stack a huge amount of standing over time so to spend it all when needed ? No thanks.

[MrInubis]

29 minutes ago, proevilz said:

Limit the amount you can buy instead.

This allows players to progress at their own desired pace, whilst keeping the platinum economy unaffected since in this context, you'd only be able to buy the same amount with the cap in place.

This mechanic is already used within certain shops, so it's not new. 

 

Problem solved.

You solved nothing since you just moved the cap elsewhere. You also removed huge part of pricing that is oportunity cost. You need to chose what you want to buy . Its also not only about economy. The slowing down of progress is more important. You have unlimited cap in newer syndicates already since you can stock up on their reapective medalions. Standing cap is also one of the incentives to raise your MR, thats also important. It is better as is than anything you can come up with for any player that cant sit in game for 6+ hours a day and thats majority.

[proevilz]

59 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

So you want to limit how much I can buy per day, while I like to stack a huge amount of standing over time so to spend it all when needed ? No thanks.

You realise my proposal means you'd be able to buy the same amount of X as you can now? You know you're already hard limited, right? 

[dwqrf]

il y a 4 minutes, proevilz a dit :

You realise my proposal

I don't.

[proevilz]

36 minutes ago, kuciol said:

You solved nothing since you just moved the cap elsewhere. 

Moving the cap literally solves the problem. 

With this implemented, you can now do as much or as little as you like - it's your choice to progress at whatever pace you want to.

37 minutes ago, kuciol said:

You also removed huge part of pricing that is oportunity cost. You need to chose what you want to buy . 

You will still choose, as you're limited by what you can buy in a day. The end result is still the same, except for progression - you're now not limited.

This addresses your price stability concern.
 

38 minutes ago, kuciol said:

You have unlimited cap in newer syndicates already since you can stock up on their reapective medalions. 

5% drop rate on universal and the rest coming from limited syndicate missions is hardly what I'd call unlimited.

44 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Standing cap is also one of the incentives to raise your MR, thats also important. It is better as is than anything you can come up with for any player that cant sit in game for 6+ hours a day and thats majority.

Not really... I don't think anyone cares about a standing cap in respect to MR. 

[proevilz]

7 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I don't.

If you don't know you've got a cap on standing, in a thread about the standing cap, then I'd say your input is not of any help here. 

Perhaps play some more to learn about the cap. 

[dwqrf]

il y a 3 minutes, proevilz a dit :

If you don't know you've got a cap on standing, in a thread about the standing cap, then I'd say your input is not of any help here. 

Perhaps play some more to learn about the cap. 

I said I don't know what you are proposing. You want to remove the standing cap and add another buying cap. Be specific. Give us numbers.

[NekroArts]

8 minutes ago, proevilz said:

Not really... I don't think anyone cares about a standing cap in respect to MR. 

Hi, I'm an individual that does. Many times in the past I reached "completion" of syndicate content because of it allowing me to get and play/experiment with the new toys quicker, especially with the case of Melee Duplicate and Crescendo.

Is it the only reason for increasing my MR? No, but there's no denying that it is a contributor.

[proevilz]

1 hour ago, NekroArts said:

Hi, I'm an individual that does. Many times in the past I reached "completion" of syndicate content because of it allowing me to get and play/experiment with the new toys quicker, especially with the case of Melee Duplicate and Crescendo.

Is it the only reason for increasing my MR? No, but there's no denying that it is a contributor.

But what specifically, does having a standing cap (emphasis on the cap) help in that regard for MR?

It hinders your progess in allowing you to play/experiement with new toys quicker.  

I feel as though you've just proved my point, accidentally.

Also, from your team mate:

4 hours ago, kuciol said:

Individuals do not matter. They are not evidence at all. 

 

Edited September 13 by proevilz