PC Koumei & the Five Fates: Hotfix 37.0.2

[Redrigoth]

56 minutes ago, controller_excalibur said:

You are speaking as if I had not played her already xD. First of all you are wrong you dont have to cast 3x times as much, only twice. Second of all you build Nova for max duration which was 20 seconds on slow 10 seconds on speed, Extremely manageable. From my playtime today I never ran into energy troubles. Lastly it does infact cover more enemies as the build up for current molecular prime is just too long, pre nerf it covered the same area at just a faster time theres no debate in this it was objectively faster when you consider how max coverage area was the same.

It covered the same area but it also faded faster which means it didn't catch the next spawn waves like the lingering slow moving one did. That's why you had to keep casting it. You cast the slow one once and it primed the existing enemies and the next wave and the next. The fast ring just primed the one spawn wave and disappeared before the next wave came in so to prime those, you had to cast again. Fast ring made it worse. "oh but the first wave got primed faster!!!" congrats, you saved 2 seconds at the cost of tripling energy consumption and having your energy bar monopolized by the one ability.

The slow ring spends more time covering a large area of the map per cast than the fast ring. And when it runs out, you still have 85m radius worth of primed enemies coming at you while your next ring grows in time to prepare the next batch while you kill the pre-existing primed ones. Only the first cast experiences a priming delay and that delay is minor. Slow ring is objectively better in the long run.

This mindset is an example of the instant gratification problem. Prime 1 wave of spawns NOW for 100 energy rather than prime 3 waves of spawns after waiting a few seconds for 100 energy with this few second delay being mitigatable by casting in advance when there are no enemies yet.

Edited Friday at 12:56 AM by Redrigoth

[JargenBakt]

14 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

It covered the same area but it also faded faster which means it didn't catch the next spawn waves like the lingering slow moving one did. That's why you had to keep casting it. You cast the slow one once and it primed the existing enemies and the next wave and the next. The fast ring just primed the one spawn wave and disappeared before the next wave came in so to prime those, you had to cast again. Fast ring made it worse. "oh but the first wave got primed faster!!!" congrats, you saved 2 seconds at the cost of tripling energy consumption and having your energy bar monopolized by the one ability.

Consequence, consequence, consequence. Sounds like you just don't want to deal with energy management. And it wasn't even that bad either. It didn't take much to mitigate the increased energy costs even if you were spamming every five-to-six seconds to prime everything. The fast wave meant you could use it everywhere as opposed to pinning Nova down to a spot and waiting... and waiting... and waiting... Holy crap, this is a lot of waiting and not a whole lot of moving.

[Rexis12]

3 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

Consequence, consequence, consequence

From what I'm reading of this, you're probably miffed that Hildryn gained the ability to use Pillage during Aegis Storm since that's the consequences of using her fourth lmao. 

[Redrigoth]

2 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

Consequence, consequence, consequence. Sounds like you just don't want to deal with energy management. And it wasn't even that bad either. It didn't take much to mitigate the increased energy costs even if you were spamming every five-to-six seconds to prime everything. The fast wave meant you could use it everywhere as opposed to pinning Nova down to a spot and waiting... and waiting... and waiting... Holy crap, this is a lot of waiting and not a whole lot of moving.

Your own manufactured "consequences" (bad design) that thankfully nobody has to deal with now since the devs reversed that horrible change.

 

[JargenBakt]

4 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

Your own manufactured "consequences" (bad design) that thankfully nobody has to deal with now since the devs reversed that horrible change.

That wasn't even bad design. It put Nova from being something to plop down in a location to something you can actively use. The fact that you see it as bad design is a testament that you can't see past what Nova was always used for. The twenty four hours that fast cast fast wave existed was the best time I had with Nova in a long time. I had given up on Nova because I was sick of being tied to a location and repeatedly casting Molecular Prime over and over while waiting over and over.

 

7 minutes ago, Rexis12 said:

From what I'm reading of this, you're probably miffed that Hildryn gained the ability to use Pillage during Aegis Storm since that's the consequences of using her fourth lmao. 

Actually, the little I've messed with it with the new augment it's actually pretty awesome. I just haven't touched much of it. It brings it up to parity with Jade so I don't see an issue there. HIldryn got shafted when Jade was released so this pretty much fixed that issue.

[Junaphine]

Listen: All we need right now for nova is her speed "4" to be a bit faster "spreading" and im fine with loosing a bit of "duration" (to compensate the buff) to not make the whole map go zoomies....     

The "new old" fast 6 seconds speed version was just awful, there was nothing to adapt to, you would need to have + efficiency , enough strength for the 75% speed buff (which is not much) and on top all the other mods u want/need. 

The "new old" version just primed : Less enemies, in a faster time with a 1/4 of the old duration,  it was just way more active spamming and looking at the map tracking the spawns/kills to then hit max range mobs the right time they would spawn so they would come faster towards you.       

THE only way to fix this version would be to make her 4 go back and forth between nova so once it reached max range it comes back to nova and goes out again (with no cast animation) kinda like Pillage but it reactivates automatically.      

In the end i think the old version is the better design when we get a slight increase to the "spreading" because it just feels super slow right meow.

[JohnShield]

Hello!

I am enjoying so much the update, specially the Hildryn augment, i always like flying warframes, thats why i am main Titania. Speaking about her, i am having issues using Titania and Null star when she is in her razorwing form. Titania disapear and cannot convert into normal size again. I have a bad quality video about it. 😔

Edited Friday at 01:26 AM by JohnShield

[Redrigoth]

11 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

That wasn't even bad design. It put Nova from being something to plop down in a location to something you can actively use. The fact that you see it as bad design is a testament that you can't see past what Nova was always used for. The twenty four hours that fast cast fast wave existed was the best time I had with Nova in a long time. I had given up on Nova because I was sick of being tied to a location and repeatedly casting Molecular Prime over and over while waiting over and over.

Each frame has its purpose. Some are for being plopped down and some are for fast traversal and some are for mass killing and so on. Play one that suits you instead of pretending nova is bad because she doesn't. She still has wormholes and now has null star priming and a faster anti-matter drop for a more mobile play-style but you seem to be too hung up on her 4 being forced into your preferred play style when that is not what it is meant for.

14 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

Actually, the little I've messed with it with the new augment it's actually pretty awesome. I just haven't touched much of it. It brings it up to parity with Jade so I don't see an issue there. HIldryn got shafted when Jade was released so this pretty much fixed that issue.

Read that comment again. It didn't mention the augment. it was poking at your obsession with "consequence" of casting 4.

[controller_excalibur]

Ok this will probably be my last comment on the matter as I feeling I am wasting my breath but I will try to elaborate further here.

56 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

It covered the same area but it also faded faster which means it didn't catch the next spawn waves like the lingering slow moving one did. That's why you had to keep casting it. You cast the slow one once and it primed the existing enemies and the next wave and the next. The fast ring just primed the one spawn wave and disappeared before the next wave came in so to prime those, you had to cast again. Fast ring made it worse. "oh but the first wave got primed faster!!!" congrats, you saved 2 seconds at the cost of tripling energy consumption and having your energy bar monopolized by the one ability.

The issue here is that there is very significant down time in priming ability with a slow wave in the time it takes to expand from ground zero. Lets assume max coverage area is 100m radius in 20 seconds (pre 37.02). In 10 seconds only 25% of the MAX area would be covered!!! Do the math (50^2)pi/(100^2pi) we are talking about the same time pre 37.02 would cover the full 100m radius! Tell me how this isnt significant. And at 14 seconds it would cover 50% max area that is almost halfway through a second pre 37.02 cast lmao it just doesn't compare. And the biggest nail in the coffin is that molecular prime does not need to stay to prime enemies, it just needs to wash over them once and they're primed.

 

56 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

The slow ring spends more time covering a large area of the map per cast than the fast ring.

You are right here but the thing is that it doesnt really matter like I said, molecular prime just needs to touch them and they're primed. The slow pre 37.02 wave is practically useless for so much of its initial time it wouldn't be speeding up anyone new and would take forever to catch new enemies and speed them which is really counter intuitive lol; You want your speeding primer to prime fast.

Edited Friday at 01:27 AM by controller_excalibur
Punctuation

[Redrigoth]

2 minutes ago, controller_excalibur said:

Ok this will probably be my last comment on the matter as I feeling I am wasting my breath but I will try to elaborate further here.

The issue here is that there is very significant down time in priming ability with a slow wave in the time it takes to expand from ground zero. Lets assume max coverage area is 100m radius in 20 seconds (pre 37.02). In 10 seconds only 25% of the MAX area would be covered!!! do the math (50^2)pi/(100^2pi) we are talking about the same time pre 37.02 would cover the full 100m radius! tell me how this isnt significant. and at 14 seconds it would cover 50% max area that is almost halfway through a second pre 37.02 cast lmao it just doesnt compare. And the biggest nail in the coffin is that molecular prime does not need to stay to prime enemies, it just needs to wash over them once and theyre primed.

 

You are right here but the thing is that it doesnt really matter like I said, molecular prime just needs to touch them and theyre primed. The slow pre 37.02 wave is practically useless for so much of its initial time it wouldnt be speeding up anyone new and would take forever to catch new enemies and speed them which is really counter intuitive lol you want your speeding primer to prime fast.

The point is for it to prime the subsequent spawns. you kill the ones already primed and the ones that come after them need to be primed as well don't they? But the fast ring is already gone by then. The slow ring remains to prime them too. And then when the slow ring runs out, you recast it, and while it is still growing, you're still dealing with the primed enemies from the previous cast so it buys time for the new cast to grow. You only have to wait on the first cast since there are no pre-primed enemies but after that it is a smooth cycle and it doesn't kill your energy bar like the fast ring which needs to be cast anew for each respawn group.

[JargenBakt]

2 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

Each frame has its purpose. Some are for being plopped down and some are for fast traversal and some are for mass killing and so on. Play one that suits you instead of pretending nova is bad because she doesn't. She still has wormholes and now has null star priming and a faster anti-matter drop for a more mobile play-style but you seem to be too hung up on her 4 being forced into your preferred play style when that is not what it is meant for.

What? Nova has had numerous augments to try to fix the immobile gameplay and when the rework happens that straight up fixes it and combines both the immobile and mobile you over here moaning that it's too much on energy economy because you're having to recast to too often and want Nova to be relegated to being fixed to a position that doesn't make for good gameplay. Your argument holds no water. You just want Nova to be that same mediocre and boring frame that it always has been.

4 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

Read that comment again. It didn't mention the augment. it was poking at your obsession with "consequence" of casting 4.

And you should reread what I wrote because it was a genuine response.

[Rexis12]

2 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

And you should reread what I wrote because it was a genuine response.

And it's had nothing to do with the new Aegis Storm being able to use Pillage. 

Again from what I've read from you, you should be FURIOUS that we move faster with Aegis Storm and  being able to use pillage.

After all, we get to mass CC and spawn energy orbs in a wide radius. There should be consequences for that right? 

[Waeleto]

2 hours ago, JargenBakt said:

Speeding up enemies should have consequences.

the consequences is that you'll die if you don't kill as fast as you're speeding up lmao

[BoomCats]

certain browns are still turning red or gold in the new orbiter GI lighting after the newest hotfix

[Rexis12]

Honestly the initial change wasn't even bad, it was just a classic case of devs having an idea that seemed good on paper but ultimately detrimental in overall gameplay. 

Honestly if there was a way to change it, it would be to make it cost less. But I'm not sure if they can have different cast cost... 

I think? 

[JargenBakt]

10 minutes ago, Rexis12 said:

And it's had nothing to do with the new Aegis Storm being able to use Pillage. 

Again from what I've read from you, you should be FURIOUS that we move faster with Aegis Storm and  being able to use pillage.

After all, we get to mass CC and spawn energy orbs in a wide radius. There should be consequences for that right? 

What are you even on about at this point? Why would I be mad between two very different frames that have two completely different playstyles? Hildryn got fixed, got a new augment that boosts the exalted, and is better than ever.

 

Nova on the other hand... I spent the first day of the rework playing her and she felt absolutely amazing. She no longer felt like this immobilized frame that you had to sit around and wait for Molecular Prime to do stuff. You could move and move I did. I already had reworked my build the moment the update dropped and it proved without a doubt that it is an amazing rework.

 

Seeing the rework get nerfed into oblivion sent Nova back to being immobilized and not worth playing. Nova is now relegated back to defense and endurance which was something that the rework set out to fix. The rework lasted all of one day before it get nerfed into the ground to the point where it may as well have never happened.

[OniDax]

The messed up colors aren't fixed at all for me. Post-hotfix, it looks exactly like it did yesterday.

[Rexis12]

16 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

completely different playstyles?

So you don't care that another frame doesn't have any consequences anymore? Why care about Nova then, it seems like your excuse about consequences is just you wanting a play style that speeds up enemy. 

In which case:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Rest_%26_Rage

Here's one, and she's much more active with the speed and slow instead of a AoE spread. 

[JargenBakt]

Just now, Rexis12 said:

So you don't care that another frame doesn't have any consequences anymore? Why care about Nova then, it seems like your excuse about consequences is just you wanting a play style that speeds up enemy. 

What are you even on about? Again, I say this. You and everyone else seems to be treating Nova with the same immobile playstyle that she always had and the rework fixed it. The lot of you came in moaning that Nova was now mobile viable demanding that Nova go back to the same immobile gameplay that she always has and is gameplay that is not very enjoyable in the first place.

 

The Nova rework fixed the horrific immobile gameplay that she suffered from. This nerf undid all of that in the span of a day before players have had a chance to even figure out that the rework was doing something. Again, I have to say this, I played Nova for that entire duration and it was a step in the right direction for fixing up Nova.

[Rexis12]

5 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

immobile playstyle

 

32 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

completely different playstyles

Ok so the issue is that you just don't like the play style? 

That's not Nova's problem. That's a you problem. 

Again you can't broadly state that something 'needs' consequences, only to be mum and praise another War frame that had their consequences removed, and then go on to say that it 'fixed' a play style that didn't need fixing. 

Nova's whole kit and play style is 'immobile'. If you only like her now because of her speeding up enemies. Again Equinox is right there. 

[JargenBakt]

2 minutes ago, Rexis12 said:

Ok so the issue is that you just don't like the play style? 

Except they fixed it, I played it, enjoyed every second of it, then they nerfed it a day later back to pre-rework status, and now it's a problem. Try to keep up. Nova going from immobile to mobile was the best thing they did. It was the best of both worlds.

5 minutes ago, Rexis12 said:

Nova's whole kit and play style is 'immobile'.

And this is exactly what the rework fixed. Having them nerf it immediately afterwards makes the whole rework null and void.

[Rexis12]

Just now, JargenBakt said:

Except they fixed it, I played it, enjoyed every second of it, then they nerfed it a day later back to pre-rework status, and now it's a problem. Try to keep up. Nova going from immobile to mobile was the best thing they did. It was the best of both worlds.

And this is exactly what the rework fixed. Having them nerf it immediately afterwards makes the whole rework null and void.

They didn't fix it, they broke it. 

Just cause you like it, doesn't mean that it was a 'fixed' play style. It broke what Nova's was supposed to be.

Even if you did, how would you like his 1,which makes movement discouraged since moving too fast reduces your DR, you can't move too quickly with her Antimatter drop or else you can't charge it. You can't move too much with her Wormhole or else... Well you don't have wormholes to use. 

Her kit is still immobile. 

Again if you wanna more mobile speeder, you have Equinox. 

[Halo]

Thanks for the hotfix!!

Dumb question, but any chance in the future would the Theorem arcanes get buffs? 

[JargenBakt]

2 minutes ago, Rexis12 said:

They didn't fix it, they broke it. 

Dude, what are you on about? That's the whole point of the rework. They didn't break anything. That rework is 100% intentional. To say that it wasn't is completely delusional.

Nova got a rework, Nova got fixed going from immobile to mobile, Nova became a much better character to play as, as a result. The fact of the matter is that you and everyone else here has treated Nova as something entirely immobile and won't treat it as anything else and that's a YOU problem.

I want the Nova Rework back as it was originally dropped because it fixed Nova as a character. It's not my fault you couldn't see that Nova could have been more than just some immobile character.

[Rexis12]

10 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

Nova got fixed going from immobile to mobile

Nope, if you're okay with Hildryn moving faster and getting Pillage with Aegis Storm. You can't say that Nova being mobile is a 'fix'.