Amount of knockdowns has gotten out of hand

[D06pblH9l]

I'm a returning player. A couple of years ago, I wasn't even considering picking [Primed sure footed], because yeah you got knockdowns here and there, but it's wasn't as bothersome to build your frames around this mod, and you were free to use other exilus mods. After returning, I seriously regret I didn't pick it, because often times it's literally unplayable, you don't even have the chance to get up.

IMO, knockdown system either needs a rework, or as a band aid there should be an immunity from subsequent knockdowns for at least 10 seconds.

Edited 16 hours ago by D06pblH9l

[Merkranire]

Why is it that, in this game, it seems out of place to think that randomly being knocked down with nothing to knock you down is a bug of some sort?

Haven’t had such a problem with knockdown, but I also don’t get grabbed by ancients or scorpions very often either. If you’re being constantly knocked down without explanation, it could either be a bug or a mechanic that you can learn to avoid

[D06pblH9l]

21 минуту назад, Merkranire сказал:

Why is it that, in this game, it seems out of place to think that randomly being knocked down with nothing to knock you down is a bug of some sort?

Haven’t had such a problem with knockdown, but I also don’t get grabbed by ancients or scorpions very often either. If you’re being constantly knocked down without explanation, it could either be a bug or a mechanic that you can learn to avoid

Yeah good luck avoiding knockdowns when you get swarmed by steel path enemies, seemingly half of which, have some way to knock you down. 

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, D06pblH9l said:

I even got some random subsequent knockdowns on Zariman with NO enemies around

Were you using an AoE weapon?  I don't recall ever seeing a knockdown without either an enemy, a trap, or self-stagger from an AoE weapon involved.

And I don't play with PSF, and I do play a lot without stagger immunity.  So that's a real mystery to me.

[Merkranire]

12 minutes ago, D06pblH9l said:

Yeah good luck avoiding knockdowns when you get swarmed by steel path enemies, seemingly half of which, have some way to knock you down. 

Your first problem is assuming that Steel Path is fair.

It’s got 4-player’s worth of spawns; that’s going to throw the balance for things like knockdown amount out of whack. So you either cheese the mode that’s trying to cheese you or you accept that you’re going to get frustrated

[Quest]

Just put on prime sure footed

[D06pblH9l]

1 минуту назад, Quest сказал:

Just put on prime sure footed

I'm half a year of logins away from it, and I don't like being forced to use something.

[D06pblH9l]

14 минут назад, Merkranire сказал:

Your first problem is assuming that Steel Path is fair.

It’s got 4-player’s worth of spawns; that’s going to throw the balance for things like knockdown amount out of whack. So you either cheese the mode that’s trying to cheese you or you accept that you’re going to get frustrated

Or ... I voice my concerns about mechanic that became broken.

[Numerounius]

I felt the same way back when I didn't have it. Luckily I had been racking up some log-in days without remembering it so I didn't have to a wait a full year to get PSF. Now with Fire eximus I can see why people still want it more than ever, even though I rarely see this discussion topic as much anymore.

If the frame doesn't have an innate way of getting knockdown resistance (aka status immunity) then D exilus polarity for PSF exists.

 

Your second best bet is either SF+Fortitude which I see they luckily upped fortitude's values so now you just need the two rather than the three knockdown resist mods. Or to use helminth as the option (spellbind).

 

Safe to say they nicked the self-damage changes so we're still stuck with self-staggers.

[Nexecute]

Instead of limiting the player's get-up roll to one of four directions with a set distance, I'd let them steer freely, just so the process doesn't feel so stiff. I'd also make the knockdown into get-up more animated, so it doesn't look like there's a moment where your frame is just sitting on their ass in spite of your inputs.

There's also bug where knockdowns can throw you in the opposite direction, pulling you towards the source.

I don't want to actually nerf knockdowns only because enemies are powerless enough as is. I'd rework enemies entirely but that's not what this post is about.

Edited 14 hours ago by Nexecute

[Merkranire]

1 hour ago, D06pblH9l said:

Or ... I voice my concerns about mechanic that became broken.

And what do you expect to happen?

That the game designs its mechanics around 4-player’s worth of spawns for one player? That’s already the outlier, not the norm, where the game designs for the standard and then Steel Path breaks it in an attempt to kill you when your build refuses to die by any other means.

Don’t go into Steel Path and expect to have a good time, it’s literally, by design through its modifiers, not balanced

[quxier]

43 minutes ago, Nexecute said:

There's also bug where knockdowns can throw you in the opposite direction, pulling you towards the source.

Or even worse, expelled... I mean towards the pit, yeah, towards the pit.

3 hours ago, D06pblH9l said:

IMO, knockdown system either needs a rework, or as a band aid there should be an immunity from subsequent knockdowns for at least 10 seconds.

Knockdowns get reworked. You can roll bullet jump and some other stuff to prevent knockdown. If you are not just standing and shooting then knockdowns are rare.

Maybe 2nd knockdown without way to prevent may be problem - I've not remember it.

[Quest]

1 hour ago, D06pblH9l said:

I'm half a year of logins away from it, and I don't like being forced to use something.

Agreed, but that's just how it is for now.

In the meantime you can use handspring or any reliable overguard generating tool.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 2 horas, D06pblH9l dijo:

Yeah good luck avoiding knockdowns when you get swarmed by steel path enemies, seemingly half of which, have some way to knock you down. 

Besides there are many ways to avoid all the negative status in the game, the most logical one is to kill them all, yeah just kill them first. 

 

[Star700]

Thank you! I'll get surrounded by heavy gunners and just get knocked around like a beach ball cuz there's very little if not no I frames and to me Sure footed is just a capacity waster cuz it barely happens but when it does there's literally nothing you can do unless they stop. Imo there should be a check in the ai of enemies with knockdown capability that they shouldn't do it if another of that kind has done it within 10m within the last 10s

[ominumi]

Status immunity prevents it. Overguard protection. Poise Focus node ignores it. There's many ways to deal with knockdown WITHOUT Primed Sure Footed.

[Tiltskillet]

6 hours ago, Star700 said:

Sure footed is just a capacity waster

 

13 hours ago, D06pblH9l said:

I'm half a year of logins away from it, and I don't like being forced to use something.

Just FYI, Sure Footed plus Fortitude gives 100% knockdown/stagger immunity.   It's two slots, so not ideal, especially if you're not playing a shield build.  But it's an option that doesn't require logins, an ability, a specter, or an arcane.

[D06pblH9l]

49 минут назад, ominumi сказал:

Status immunity prevents it. Overguard protection. Poise Focus node ignores it. There's many ways to deal with knockdown WITHOUT Primed Sure Footed.

Frames that can do status imunity are a minority, even less can do overguard, which steel path enemies will melt in no time anyways. Yeah you can do it with Poise, but then you're stuck with Unairu focus school and have to operator in/out every minute or so potentially for hours, if you're doing endurance run. And all of that, just to mitigate a mechanic that wasn't this bad just few years ago.

[Tiltskillet]

14 minutes ago, D06pblH9l said:

Frames that can do status imunity are a minority, even less can do overguard, which steel path enemies will melt in no time anyways. Yeah you can do it with Poise, but then you're stuck with Unairu focus school and have to operator in/out every minute or so potentially for hours, if you're doing endurance run. And all of that, just to mitigate a mechanic that wasn't this bad just few years ago.

Amount of knockdowns doesn't seem like it's increased to me. Are you maybe comparing non-Steel Path before with Steel Path now?  Then it would make some sense as there just so many more enemies.

Otherwise the only change I can think of that's affected enemy knockdowns inflicted on players was the hook attack overhaul...but this made these less common, and easier to deal with when they do occur.

20 minutes ago, D06pblH9l said:

Frames that can do status imunity are a minority, even less can do overguard, which steel path enemies will melt in no time anyways.

Technically all frames have access to Overguard now, through Secondary Fortifier or a Dante Specter.  Two more things that might be new to you.