Are We Ever Going To Get Unique Weaponry?

[LukeAura]

Someone needs to get a handle on Warframe's identity crisis. It doesn't really know what it wants to be. It's trying to be Counterland 2 go. It just doesn't work. 

We have so many different weapons, but not a lot of functional variety with them. Because they can't be different, because we have warframe powers to be our uniquely functioning tools. And because we only have 4 to a frame, and 15 frames in total, with a lot of them sharing very similar powers just with a little tweaking, the actual creative diversity is sorely lacking.
And at the most simplest of ratios a warframe with 4 unique mechanics will take at the best 4x as long to create as a gun with a single unique mechanic. So not only can there not be more creative variety to our weapons, but where the creative functions are going is extremely limited, and will expand slower. 
We can't have grenades because of warframe powers. And yet, most warframes a) Don't have a cheap and spammable radial AoE. and b) Don't have an ability they can lob out into targets. But because some frame, might, get that ability, some day. No frame can have it as a weapon. Thank goodness no frame is designed to shoot a hail of low damage hitscan projectiles, that add up to be a large punch, or else we wouldn't have shotguns. 
 

Edited December 5, 2013 by LukeAura

[Grascen]

It isn't easy to make unique weapons. Most games there are even less.

Unique mechanics are kinda hard to develop for weapons.

 

You do realize that there are so many different/cool weapon ideas that are both already out there and still have no iteration in Warframe? Just spending a bit of time in UT2004 with stuff like the Ballistics, Gunreal, and Unreal 4 Ever weapon packs could inspire tons of great ideas.

 

When they start exhausting the supply of awesome weapon ideas, THEN you can use this excuse.

[GeoffFromAccounting]

And have you looked in the feedback sections? There are plenty of great ideas there (or were last I checked).

 

are they ingame? not that I know of, we're talking about the guns IN GAME, not in the feedback forums

[JimJam_]

Some of the weapon's power are based on Mastery Rank, the ones needing it less being the ones less powerful.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I AM NOT SAYING IT IS AN EXCUSE (GOOD LORD MAN READ) I am saying THEY WILL NOT DO IT!!! BECAUSE IT IS OVERPOWERED!!! Like the Grenades.... LIKE THE GRENADES!!!! GRENADES!!!!!!!!!!!!! FRIGGIN GRENADES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All I read is you trying to cover for DE's lack of interesting weapons (see: excuses)

 

If you think every unique weapon would be OP, then you are only looking at the extremes. What if the whips allowed worked like the scoprions? Or perhaps a shotgun that consumed all ammo in it's clip to fire a rocket/stun 'nade (might not be "unique" unique, but it'd be versatile), Long swords could be more unique by making them more dedicated blocking tools, a chain weapon that functioned like a very short range rip line (~15 meters max, fairly short, go look for yourself), a dual weapon with the ability to disarm an enemy (a la loki's RD), things like that. It gives you choices instead "Welp, this has the best DPs, gotta use that. Or this has the best coptering power, gotta use that!"

 

Personally, not asking for each and every weapon they have to be unique, that'd require a lot more work for them, but there are somethings they could do to make classes of weapons unique (along with some unique guns, like making the miter fire a shotgun spread of blades, or perhaps usable as a melee weapon, or something).

[Arlayn]

All I read is you trying to cover for DE's lack of interesting weapons (see: excuses)

 

If you think every unique weapon would be OP, then you are only looking at the extremes. What if the whips allowed worked like the scoprions? Or perhaps a shotgun that consumed all ammo in it's clip to fire a rocket/stun 'nade (might not be "unique" unique, but it'd be versatile), Long swords could be more unique by making them more dedicated blocking tools, a chain weapon that functioned like a very short range rip line (~15 meters max, fairly short, go look for yourself), a dual weapon with the ability to disarm an enemy (a la loki's RD), things like that. It gives you choices instead "Welp, this has the best DPs, gotta use that. Or this has the best coptering power, gotta use that!"

 

Personally, not asking for each and every weapon they have to be unique, that'd require a lot more work for them, but there are somethings they could do to make classes of weapons unique (along with some unique guns, like making the miter fire a shotgun spread of blades, or perhaps usable as a melee weapon, or something).

GRENADES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why is this so hard to understand. A Shotgun that makes enemies float, and turn into projectiles is OP, and better used as an ability, NOT A WEAPON!

 

Scorpion whip=Valkyr grapple... nuff said...

Edited December 5, 2013 by Arlayn

[KvotheTheArcane1]

GRENADES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why is this so hard to understand. A Shotgun that makes enemies float, and turn into projectiles is OP, and better used as an ability, NOT A WEAPON!

You didn't even read my post. Alright, done with your nonsense, you never have a valid point, it's always the ravings of a mad man. (or as you say "devil's advocate")

[DemolitionDude6000]

Complaining is feedback, WF is in beta and needs feedback.

 

What's your argument again?

 

Also, now you're overgeneralizing (strawman), No where did Nugget_ say "we only have 2 guns and sword", rather he said

 

 

And have you looked in the feedback sections? There are plenty of great ideas there (or were last I checked).

Sorry for having an opinion. The point of my post was we should give DE a little more respect on what they do. Is that wrong? 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Sorry for having an opinion. The point of my post was we should give DE a little more respect on what they do. Is that wrong? 

Respect? Who said we don't respect DE? Criticizing =/= disrespecting.

[M93R]

Just responding to the OP.

 

I can agree in some situations that weapons are reskins from other games or ideas with different stats. However the process of making something never seen before is a bit more difficult. The frames themselves are what bring uniqueness to the shooting genre, expanding on the arsenel is a great idea however.

 

An idea I wouldn't be against so much are a purely situational secondary that gives more reason or rhyme to speed hostler or switching between weapons. Thus meaning say a secondary that does barely any damage but has an effect well worth switching between weapons for. Maybe something like a gun that shoots a magnet that pulls weapons off or enemies towards eachother. But lacks damage or good damage. Nothing as serious as vortex but just something more unique.

 

I agree that it'll make the game more interesting in ways. But it is a matter of balancing and correctly implementing unique ideas. Things have been incorrectly implemented and have been corrected, but I rather see stuff come out good rather than need fixing. The more fixing they need to do, the more time is taken from other aspects of development.

 

Anyway looking back on some weapons that I've pulled out of retirement since dmg2.0. I've had plenty of fun with changes. I'm changing how I use frame skills combined with weapons, which is enough unique for me for the time being. However I would like to see something that is at least uncommon if not unique. We are ancient space ninjas in the future, or something like that.

 

And if anyone has read this far. I want a dinosaur planet.

[M93R]

Just responding to the OP.

 

I can agree in some situations that weapons are reskins from other games or ideas with different stats. However the process of making something never seen before is a bit more difficult. The frames themselves are what bring uniqueness to the shooting genre, expanding on the arsenel is a great idea however.

 

An idea I wouldn't be against so much are a purely situational secondary that gives more reason or rhyme to speed hostler or switching between weapons. Thus meaning say a secondary that does barely any damage but has an effect well worth switching between weapons for. Maybe something like a gun that shoots a magnet that pulls weapons off or enemies towards eachother. But lacks damage or good damage. Nothing as serious as vortex but just something more unique weapon wise.

 

I agree that it'll make the game more interesting in ways. But it is a matter of balancing and correctly implementing unique ideas. Things have been incorrectly implemented and have been corrected, but I rather see stuff come out good rather than need fixing. The more fixing they need to do, the more time is taken from other aspects of development.

 

Anyway looking back on some weapons that I've pulled out of retirement since dmg2.0. I've had plenty of fun with changes. I'm changing how I use frame skills combined with weapons, which is enough unique for me for the time being. However I would like to see something that is at least uncommon if not unique. We are ancient space ninjas in the future, or something like that.

 

And if anyone has read this far. I want a dinosaur planet.

Edited December 5, 2013 by M93R

[Zeus154]

yes I can read that, and after reading it I can reply to it (looking at multiple topics at once)

 

Problem is, is that it isn't a problem. This is just what DE has time for at the time.

 

From what I understand everything DE does is based on a schedule of sorts.

Every team is working on a set of something

sound

weapons

tile-sets

warframes

animations

etc.

 

So there is only 2 reasons we don't get an onslaught of unique weapons

1. Because most of the ideas are things they will turn into buffs that a Warframe will use

2. Because the weapon teams are given random art from the art team, and everyone has to work around that. Time also seems limited, like a deadline of some sort. Not sure if there is one as a certain whip still has not been released yet, or maybe its because they are saving the big ideas for something abit fancy. They are trying to make every weapon type for each faction. Example...

Grakata-grineer

Braton-corpus

Soma-Tenno

 

The three machine guns so far, but still no infested version.

 

Long swords

Prova-Corpus

Machete-Grineer

Skana-Tenno

Mire-Infested

 

Once they have managed to fill the slot for every weapon type for every faction they MIGHT move on, OR use the mastery rank system to their advantage and just make variations of each weapon going up the mastery system so players can get superior versions of said weapon type.

 

Yes this sounds like a pain, but we know for a fact some weapons like the ballistica might come out every now, and then. It is a matter of patience. All we can do is watch, and see what happens. Also the idea of a shotgun that makes people float as you said, or into projectiles sounds too OP to be something naturally on a weapon. Its like giving us grenades and letting us have a ball... DE knows how messy that could get, and therefore they do not do it.

 

I AM NOT SAYING IT IS AN EXCUSE (GOOD LORD MAN READ) I am saying THEY WILL NOT DO IT!!! BECAUSE IT IS OVERPOWERED!!! Like the Grenades.... LIKE THE GRENADES!!!! GRENADES!!!!!!!!!!!!! FRIGGIN GRENADES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well, time to put my new color into the works...

 

I've played around with both sides a bit. DE has time to do things, but has certain things to do. They are able to pump iron (weapons) constantly, but they're slowly chipping away at the next big update. Pretty much what you said in the very beginning. While I want uniqueness, the time and effort to put in for a unique idea can be troubling. That and they are chipping away at another update for us to talk about.

 

Anyway it's an interesting conversation. As well thank you for finding a more "suitable color" :3

 

EDIT: Grammatical inconsistencies.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Zeus154

[Luminati07]

GRENADES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why is this so hard to understand. A Shotgun that makes enemies float, and turn into projectiles is OP, and better used as an ability, NOT A WEAPON!

 

Scorpion whip=Valkyr grapple... nuff said...

Holy christ. I promised myself that I'd never reply to you every again but...Oh wow.

 

NOBODY suggested a shotgun that can make enemies float and turn into projectlies.

They were only pointing out a weapon from another game!

 

You say things like "OMG READ MY POST", yet you're the one that isn't reading.

You're making a fool of yourself.

 

After this one, I am never replying to you again. I can feel my brain cells committing suicide.

 

Here's the obligatory white knight picture

[Rajko]

I came back to read, but this has gone staggeringly off. Everybody here agrees some terribly unique weapons would be nice, except Arlayn, I think. No idea what your actual opinion is. Just... Confusing.

Anyhow, some unique ideas... How about:

A combination bolt / proc weapon that deals out a player triggered, amplified proc effect via button press after it has struck a target.

I.E. mod your gun for electrical. Take it to a fight, fill a target with darts, press a mapped key to trigger the dart proc effect, enjoy the show as your pin cushion electrifies a crowd. Likewise fire and create your own fire hazard areas.

Not like balance really matters for brainstorming. Point is: get away from derailing bickering and say something constructive.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Rajko

[Luminati07]

For anyone still reading, here's a small extract from the thread I'm making.

 

From looking at the wiki, I counted one hundred and twenty four weapons.

Yes. 124 weapons in the game.

 

How many of those can be considered "unique"

Synapse, Flux Rifle, Ignis, Ogris, Torid, Ballistica, Tigris.

 

Those are the current 'unique' weapons in the game.

And come on! Those are like..The basics of the basics.

 

It's a sad state of affairs when the most interesting guns are a rocket launcher and a flamethrower.

THAT'S what I mean when I say that the current weapon palette is severely lacking.

 

Complete thread will probably be finished after work.

It's going to be extremely long.

[Malora_Sidewinder]

I'm sorry that I disagree heavily with what you have to say on weapon similarities.

 

The Soma may be functionally similar to a few different weapons, granted... but dude, have you seen what a Soma that someone has put some time and love (and Forma) into can DO to even the top level enemies?

 

My Soma has been polarized 3x now... It's supposed to be nearly useless against corpus.

 

I can solo pluto defense to wave 15 with it. serious.

 

It may ACT similar to a few guns, but when you look at what it DOES, and how you play it, it becomes a radically different idea.

 

Not saying you're wrong altogether, but I just feel very strongly about the fact that mods are more important than weapon choices for warframe. 

 

with my soma for instance, adding magnetic and flame damage makes quick work of corpus... which it should be weak to.

add puncture and it becomes a crowd control hose. 

cut fire rate add higher crit chance with that corrupted mod, and it becomes a slower, heavier hitting assault cannon.

 

this isn't just soma. this is *all* of the guns. I'd say that statistics such as fire rate, reload time, and magazine size are far more important to a gun than the damage. damage can be mitigated and compensated for far better than the above.

 

 

...except i will admit i'd be down for some more "gimmick" guns. like ballistica. love that thing... just hate the recoil.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

For anyone still reading, here's a small extract from the thread I'm making.

 

 

 

 

Complete thread will probably be finished after work.

It's going to be extremely long.

Where is my flechette canister gun? Or my gun that throws up a shield on alt fire? or my gun that fires latcher type enemies? Boom, ideas, not hard, surprised DE is playing it so safe with generic weapons considering this is a game about space ninjas, with wallrunning, etc. (looking forward to it)

 

snip

It's not about how effective weapons are vs each other, but how they all work the exact same. The braton, grakata, and soma all work the exact same with number changes.

[Satsuki]

For the love of [insert personal deity of worship], all of my yes.

This recent trend about rounding out every weapon category/subcategory in holy trio format (every group must have a Slash, Impact and Puncture iteration with negligible statistical differences, apparently) needs to be tossed out the window. It's boring and uninspired.

Unique weapons would be fantastic.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Renegade-CIX

[Arlayn]

 

Well, time to put my new color into the works...

 

I've played around with both sides a bit. DE has time to do things, but has certain things to do. They are able to pump iron (weapons) constantly, but they're slowly chipping away at the next big update. Pretty much what you said in the very beginning. While I want uniqueness, the time and effort to put in for a unique idea can be troubling. That and they are chipping away at another update for us to talk about.

 

Anyway it's an interesting conversation. As well thank you for finding a more "suitable color" :3

 

EDIT: Grammatical inconsistencies.

Well we can look forward to the infested whip still. That thing was physically finished ages ago. You can see it in the bio lab in the dojo, and they showed us animations of it in the livestreams, but the fact they still have not released it might be promising in its design, but I wouldn't get hopes up too much.

 

Holy christ. I promised myself that I'd never reply to you every again but...Oh wow.

 

NOBODY suggested a shotgun that can make enemies float and turn into projectlies.

They were only pointing out a weapon from another game!

 

You say things like "OMG READ MY POST", yet you're the one that isn't reading.

You're making a fool of yourself.

 

After this one, I am never replying to you again. I can feel my brain cells committing suicide.

 

Here's the obligatory white knight picture

Sometimes I wonder if we are speaking two very different forms of English... Because I still have no idea what you just said...

 

edit: or I am not making myself clear enough

Edited December 5, 2013 by Arlayn

[Sparrohawk]

Some weapons that feature new mechanics would be nice. I'm willing to bet DE has had/will have this idea going through a few design meetings. 

 

Cautious implementation of some more creative weapons should come sooner or later. I would be surprised if DE doesn't speak of such things sooner or later. Preferably sooner, if I had a choice in the matter :)

[Madotsuki]

These lazy generic weapons that are constantly being churned out is what's turning me off from touching the game anymore. So many generic weapons with little more than a change of stats, why can't we get something remotely interesting? Stop pumping out new weapons, and re-vamp the old ones already!

Here's a few ideas just for starters!

Hek: Alt-fire: Charge the gun to fire all four barrels at once, dealing quad-damage but emptying your entire clip. Can only be charged when clip is full. Clip size mods do not work on this gun.

Brakk: Regular fire: Very large spread, quick damage fall-off shotgun for close range combat. Alt-fire: Charge to condense shot into a slug for long range fire.

Lecta and whips in general: Completely different charge mechanic: Hold melee to lash out the whip, release melee to crack it. Time the release right so you crack it right when the whip reaches the target.

Gorgon: Starts with near pin-point accuracy and low fire rate. The longer the fire button is held, the lower the accuracy and the faster the fire rate.

Galatine: Decrease charge speed and swing speed even further, buff normal swing damage to at least 75. Make it into a true broadsword with heavy all-round damage but low all-round speed.

Spectra: Beam has 75% range as Flux Rifle, but damage varies with range of enemies. At furthest, half damage of flux. At point blank, twice damage of flux.

As for new weapons, why not swords that can shoot shockwaves on charge attacks? Pistols/snipers with infra-red scopes to see through (but not shoot through) walls? A corpus gun that sprays liquid nitrogen? Corpus energy swords that ignore enemy shields and armor? Grineer pipebomb launchers? Grineer chainsaw that you hold down the melee button to keep activated and run into enemies with it? The possibilities are ENDLESS!

But I guess quality over quantity doesn't rake in as much cash off gullible kids, does it now.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Sometimes I wonder if we are speaking two very different forms of English... Because I still have no idea what you just said...

 

edit: or I am not making myself clear enough to the point I need to DEGRADE my English.

No, you're just not reading. He very clearly said you're busy yelling "OMG READ MY POSTS!" While not reading anyone else's. Any questions?

Edited December 5, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[LucidBlade]

Although I agree that some unique weaponry is needed. I feel what the real problem is the current existing guns have no soul. Yeah a maybe nice to have a gun that shoots fireballs, swords, or acid. I feel the what the guns really need are unique animations, I am talking about reload animations. Most of the guns reload the same, I don't even think I have seen shells fly out of the guns, or a gun getting red from heat. Almost all guns just spray bullets till the clip is done and just do it again. I would love to see a shells fly out and hit the ground, energy or heat dissipate from the gun. Vaporizing and dropping atomic bombs can come later. Just fix what you have, then move on. 

[Arlayn]

These lazy generic weapons that are constantly being churned out is what's turning me off from touching the game anymore. So many generic weapons with little more than a change of stats, why can't we get something remotely interesting? Stop pumping out new weapons, and re-vamp the old ones already!

Here's a few ideas just for starters!

Hek: Alt-fire: Charge the gun to fire all four barrels at once, dealing quad-damage but emptying your entire clip. Can only be charged when clip is full. Clip size mods do not work on this gun.

Brakk: Regular fire: Very large spread, quick damage fall-off shotgun for close range combat. Alt-fire: Charge to condense shot into a slug for long range fire.

Lecta and whips in general: Completely different charge mechanic: Hold melee to lash out the whip, release melee to crack it. Time the release right so you crack it right when the whip reaches the target.

Gorgon: Starts with near pin-point accuracy and low fire rate. The longer the fire button is held, the lower the accuracy and the faster the fire rate.

Galatine: Decrease charge speed and swing speed even further, buff normal swing damage to at least 75. Make it into a true broadsword with heavy all-round damage but low all-round speed.

Spectra: Beam has 75% range as Flux Rifle, but damage varies with range of enemies. At furthest, half damage of flux. At point blank, twice damage of flux.

As for new weapons, why not swords that can shoot shockwaves on charge attacks? Pistols/snipers with infra-red scopes to see through (but not shoot through) walls? A corpus gun that sprays liquid nitrogen? Corpus energy swords that ignore enemy shields and armor? Grineer pipebomb launchers? Grineer chainsaw that you hold down the melee button to keep activated and run into enemies with it? The possibilities are ENDLESS!

But I guess quality over quantity doesn't rake in as much cash off gullible kids, does it now.

I get the feeling they have more advanced weapons sitting in the background. Just ideas they may be working with, but take forever. Just whip animations for lecta took awhile, and the Infested whip still has not shown itself yet. Ignis, Ogris, Synapse, and Embolist all took trial and error towards coming out eventually. Even the Kunai/shuriken took their time. Kogake blew out mind because they used real life movements for it. Everything they do, new animations, new attacks take time to fix into the game. In the mean time while someone is working on new mechanics they are just throwing out weapons to fill out all the slots for every faction, for every weapon type, and just giving us cool designs, and appearances along the way.

 

Also Magnus has a high Status chance which is kinda nice.

[Arlayn]

No, you're just not reading. He very clearly said you're busy yelling "OMG READ MY POSTS!" While not reading anyone else's. Any questions?

No I am saying Read my post CORRECTLY... not READ MY POST like an attention deprived child. There is a difference in trying to make someone understand, and trying to get someone to read my stuff because I want them to.