De, How Are We Going To Fight Grineers Now?

[NalkorRN]

The survival alert just earlier with level 28-30 Grineer? My Despair does several hundred Puncture Damage, as does my Hek (almost 800 actually) and wouldn't you know, body shots to Bombards with the Despair were doing only 38 damage or so, and I was the host.

 

So as far as I'm concerned, DE done goofed again, only now it's somehow even worse than Damage 1.0. Talk about one step forward, fifteen steps back.

[Kyte]

Not sure. I still think we need the -DR, because health scale as well, not only armor, and this chart is only for Corrosive not others.

Btw lv50 Gunner was 10,000 armor.

if you dropped a zero, the Lv50 Gunner would have 1000 armor which is well within the range where it's better than -DR (the inflection point's at 1450). That'd account for the health scaling as well.

 

Btw, here's for Toxin:

[Definitegj]

Just saw a lv8 Gunner, previously thought minimal is 15, meaning armor calculation for gunners is wrong.

 

Revised estimation

Lv40 Gunner is estimate to have at least 7740   armor

Lv50 Gunner is estimate to have at least 14790 armor, if scaling unchanged.

 

Yes, dropped a zero should work fine within lv70.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Definitegj

[Kyte]

Lv. 70 is already insanely high with the new level scaling, anyways. It was, what, new 40 = old 100?

[Definitegj]

Lv. 70 is already insanely high with the new level scaling, anyways. It was, what, new 40 = old 100?

Yes, I don't really care about lv70 too.

Now it depend on DE what route to take.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Definitegj

[DHKany]

Yeah my Despairs with corrosive damage only dealing 33 damage per blade to level 34 heavies in the void is no fun.

[OblivionNecroninja]

Wow, it's almost like armor scaling was a terrible idea that DE never should have done in the first place.

[Onae]

Brakk and Soma.

 

Not that hard, honestly.

Oh yeah because out of all the weapons in warframe we should be forced to use only two of them, and one cant even be obtained anymore. nice logic

[Definitegj]

if you dropped a zero, the Lv50 Gunner would have 1000 armor which is well within the range where it's better than -DR (the inflection point's at 1450). That'd account for the health scaling as well.

 

Btw, here's for Toxin:

 

 

Can do 1 chart for puncture? That is slightly more important.

[bobafetthotmail]

yo, so the fabled "fix for armor scaling" was just making Corrosive AI on top of an already AI Puncture and giving them a damage boost. Long slow clap.

[Kyte]

Can do 1 chart for puncture? That is slightly more important.

Toxin's 25%, Corrosive's 75%, here's 50% ie Puncture.

[Raigir]

I've had easier times fighting the hardest available bosses than I have fighting the grineer heavies thanks to the recent patch.

 

Something is very off when an anti armor build is tickling the enemy.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Raigir

[Etsoree]

Oh yeah because out of all the weapons in warframe we should be forced to use only two of them, and one cant even be obtained anymore. nice logic

 

Soma and Embolist then.

 

Long to medium range with a short range gun.

[DHKany]

Soma and Embolist then.

 

Long to medium range with a short range gun.

/missing the point 

[LazerusKI]

So far, my Penta with just 90% Toxic damage and 135% Serration can deal around 1100 against 31 Grineer (Nightmare at Sedna).

Also my Corrosive Lanka deals around 2k damage there.

 

Only in the Void it seems to be crazy.

During the last stages of T3 defense, i have seen some hits with only 60 damage from the same lanka build

[Kyte]

Looking at the chart the issue's that they didn't really fix armor scaling, they just reduced level scaling and added elemental bonuses.

The problem's the craziest armor scaling happens in levels 10-40, which the level scaling rework didn't touch at all, but Corrosive and Puncture covered up the worst of it.

For a true fix, the armor scaling formula gotta be changed.

Right now it's same as always: Base Armor + (Base Armor * 0,0025 * ((Current Level - Start Level)^2.5))

It's that 2.5 exponent that's the issue. Reducing it to 2 or 1,7 would instantly fix all the issues.

 

For example, if you deal 1000 Magnetic (because no bonuses) on Lancers (Start Level 1, Base Armor 100):

Blue line is right now. Look how fast the damage drops when you go past lv 10.

[LazerusKI]

Looking at the chart the issue's that they didn't really fix armor scaling, they just reduced level scaling and added elemental bonuses.

The problem's the craziest armor scaling happens in levels 10-40, which the level scaling rework didn't touch at all, but Corrosive and Puncture covered up the worst of it.

For a true fix, the armor scaling formula gotta be changed.

Right now it's same as always: Base Armor + (Base Armor * 0,0025 * ((Current Level - Start Level)^2.5))

It's that 2.5 exponent that's the issue. Reducing it to 2 or 1,7 would instantly fix all the issues.

 

For example, if you deal 1000 Magnetic (because no bonuses) on Lancers (Start Level 1, Base Armor 100):

Blue line is right now. Look how fast the damage drops when you go past lv 10.

just for the better understanding: x axis is the level, y the damage?

 

also, what do you mean with 2.5, 2.0 and 1.7? are these the damage systems?

Edited December 14, 2013 by LazerusKI

[Kyte]

X is level, Y is how much damage a Lancer will take if they get hit by 1000 Magnetic damage (ie Crush without Focus).

 

And those are the exponents. 2.5 is what they have right now in the formula.

Base Armor + (Base Armor * 0,0025 * ((Current Level - Start Level)^2.5))

 

For the chart: y = 100 + (100 * 0,0025 * ((x - 1)^Exponent))

 

(I keep forgetting to correct the commas into dots)

Edited December 14, 2013 by Kyte

[Quasar-Sandwich]

but seriously how do we fight grineer now ? it takes like 1000 years to take down grineer heavy units now even with anti grineer builds O_o

maybe... get a better build or better base damage mods? that always seems to work. Also if your applying puncture mods to a weapon with base elemental damage then just stop right there; how much is 0 * .3? still 0.

[Eyeless]

ok here is some perspective vs high level grinner heavy units in the void 

 

we did some testing, gameplay wise, using a maxed blind rage sonar banshee, mole prime and rhino roar we were doing +1,460% more damage

using pistol amps and corrosive projections (but below max bug)

everyone using anti-armor anti-grineer focused weapons

 

yes they went down faster BUT it still took a long time which in itself is ok but not when there are a dozen or so of them and assuming most pub teams wont gear up to maximize they are quite a challenge for casual players

 

im kinda starting to think its on purpose to really test players, to provide some real challenge where u HAVE to team up to take them down and think tactics (CC frame abilities and weapons ie; kestrels to control the units as u focus fire) and to be honest it is quite fun from that point of view

 

but if that is true then id say youd have to reduce the amount of heavy units spawning in ratio to enemy level because once there are too many well its just too time consuming taking each one down surrounded by other threats

 

they are killable it just takes alot, intended ? idk.. it has potential but just needs some tweaking 

 

*edit - also had 45% armor reduction from nekros br terrify..

You really trust DE to sit there and think about how many of a certain enemy are spawning so that it's balanced and rational? Even a measly survival on Apollo' turns into hell without a well balanced fully packed team simply because it's deluges of Napalmers, Shield bashing lancers, and Scorpions, coming at you from EVERY angle. It becomes infuriating, then hair tearing at higher levels.

 

That was always ridiculous and needed serious changes/tweaks. 

 

Now with this new patch... God, just... what the hell?

[LordAsmolicious]

You really trust DE to sit there and think about how many of a certain enemy are spawning so that it's balanced and rational? Even a measly survival on Apollo' turns into hell without a well balanced fully packed team simply because it's deluges of Napalmers, Shield bashing lancers, and Scorpions, coming at you from EVERY angle. It becomes infuriating, then hair tearing at higher levels.

 

That was always ridiculous and needed serious changes/tweaks. 

 

Now with this new patch... God, just... what the hell?

30 minutes in at Apollo... everyone was scared of the napalms because they were running Ignis... i was the only one that took them down easily... and i used an unmodded Penta and a half ranked Magnus... i mean come on! how hard can it be. Grineers lvl 20+ are getting tougher now but below that they are still cake. and only the heavies are a bit hard at anything above 20. so far in my experience. Either im doing something right or someone is doing something wrong.

[HAYABU5A]

Summary: Has 1,460% more damage + 45% armor reduction + Corrosive Projection. Still took a long time in a void with Lv 30+ Grineers (need indication here), right?

umm yes.. right ! it still took a long time to clear them even with all that, youd think it would be reasonably faster with all that focused damage stacking and buffs

 

we also had +120% dmg to our secondary weapons from pistol amps

[Suzaku4489]

Just wondering, how is the Corrosive status supposed to work? I was under the impression that its status reduced the enemy's damage reduction by 75% (along with the fact that it's strong against armor).

I just ran some tests and it turns out it's just a stacking 7% DR removal, with the removal being from the original amount each time (if the target has 70% DR, then it'll take 10 status procs to remove all DR).

[CatScratch]

I fought my despair was broken lol...

It has 450ish puncture damage and one-shots lv50 infested but versus heavy gunners in void it did 4dmg... I was like wtf

It's puncture dmg remember...

[Tigersight]

Here's what really bugs me: it died the exact instant a yellow number showed up. Two thirds of its health gone in a single hit, where all of the other non-crit shots did a measly 6 damage each.

 

So no. Not functioning as intended. It needs fixing.

 

 

Wait, so that's why my Vectis does 200 damage normally, and 3000 damage when it crits? O_o