"upcoming -Warframe- Changes" Are Ridiculous

[Otaiken]

I guess Miasma will no longer bypass shields then? Since only Toxic damage does that...

 

On the other hand it's not so bad, this makes Saryn good against Grineer. There's no other frame that is exceptionally good against Grineer.. only Corus or Infested.

 

This is assuming they fixed the armor, if they didn't, then the switch to corrosive means bugger all as you still won't be able to kill high level Grineer with Miasma.. even with buffed damage.

Edited December 18, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[DeathByZer0]

Really hoping some kinks are ironed out before the patch goes live, I think Saryn needs another look at.

 

Feels like DE just messed with some numbers and tossed her aside, just to shut up the people that have been complaining about the lack of attention towards her.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Zachbot20

[Lunaticked]

Well, the fact that there are feedback threads that were created by DE goes to show that they are quite open to further changing these frames, Baby steps.

 

That isn't true, as evidenced in the Overheat removal.

[Renan.Ruivo]

That isn't true, as evidenced in the Overheat removal.

 

The fact that they removed overheat makes my statement false how, exactly? They changed it and are going to listen to all feedback about it. If removing overheat wasn't the right thing to do, the players will voice their opinion and they will listen.

[EelPlus]

The fact that they removed overheat makes my statement false how, exactly? They changed it and are going to listen to all feedback about it. If removing overheat wasn't the right thing to do, the players will voice their opinion and they will listen.

Desecrate is another example.  Massively panned in feedback thread, but feedback on it was reduced in the "Hot Topics" thread to "Make corpses last longer."

[Varzy]

I said this in another thread, but to my mind Hysteria seems like a bad choice for the life regen, as it puts so much emphasis on using her Uber all the time. Unless they're removing her invulnerability during it, then Valkyr's whole playstyle becomes about staying in Hysteria as long as possible.

 

Warcry would have been a great choice -- add swing speed plus life regen and makes using Hysteria in tandem optional. If you don't want to use Hysteria just yet, then you can still buff up your health with your current melee, fighting in a different style. Would be fun with the glaive, too.

 

I'll have to play it to see how it pans out.

[Lekkur]

I said this in another thread, but to my mind Hysteria seems like a bad choice for the life regen, as it puts so much emphasis on using her Uber all the time. Unless they're removing her invulnerability during it, then Valkyr's whole playstyle becomes about staying in Hysteria as long as possible.

 

Warcry would have been a great choice -- add swing speed plus life regen and makes using Hysteria in tandem optional. If you don't want to use Hysteria just yet, then you can still buff up your health with your current melee, fighting in a different style. Would be fun with the glaive, too.

 

I'll have to play it to see how it pans out.

I like your idea a lot with the warcry thingy at least. Otherwise I am open to all the things eventually to come. 

[Keltik0ne]

While none of the changes strike me as inspired or even interesting, I'll give them a fair test before I bench the relevant frames, again.

 

I think Rhino is the only rework that I didn't really dislike, although they took a few attempts to get him where he is.

 

Again, just because a product is in beta phase, doesn't excuse the makers from having inhouse QA guys do preliminary balance testing. While it does appear that DE doesn't believe in QA, you still have to assume that some testing does happen before we get to stress test changes.

[DeejayPwny]

I'm excited for saryn's changes. Longer/stronger molts, corrosive miasma (hopefully able to proc reducing armor), and a field of venom, potentially procing an hp debuff on many enemies.

[Archwizard]

The only "ridiculous" changes I see are the removal of Overheat, and the lack of changes to one-hit wonder frames like Frost, Banshee and Nekros.

Like, "Hey guys, we're gonna add more diversity to Ember by removing the most diverse ability in her arsenal in spite of player feedback to buff it!"

 

Other than that, pretty sure it's exactly what the Valkyr and Saryn changes were asking for.

[Kellervo]

The only "ridiculous" changes I see are the removal of Overheat, and the lack of changes to one-hit wonder frames like Frost, Banshee and Nekros.

Like, "Hey guys, we're gonna add more diversity to Ember by removing the most diverse ability in her arsenal in spite of player feedback to buff it!"

 

Other than that, pretty sure it's exactly what the Valkyr and Saryn changes were asking for.

 

Overheat is diverse? It was a carbon copy of Iron Skin with a slight DPS buff and was utterly generic and boring to use, requiring no thought or any kind of actual effort to use properly.

 

Now she has the only ability in the game that forces enemies to be weak to her preferred damage type. Even something as minor as +25% will give her an incredible damage buff against every enemy type in the game. Barring Nova's Molecular Prime, no other class can do that. It gives Ember an ability that synergizes well with all of her current abilities and with her weaponry, something she sorely lacked.

 

The people complaining about Overheat being removed fail to realize Overheat's tanking ability was removed five months ago. It has been out of the game longer then it was in - specifically because it was overpowered and never intended to be a tank-caster frame. This was something explicitly stated by DE then, and still applies now. If you want to tank, go Rhino or Frost. If you want to be a caster, you have Ember, Volt, and Nova. If you want to be a balanced hybrid, you have Saryn.

 

No frame should be a perfect hybrid with the advantages of tanking (92% damage reduction) and the advantages of being a caster (AoE Ults, ability to force elemental weaknesses).

Edited December 19, 2013 by Kellervo

[Wurdyburd]

Have you ever used Saryn after damage 2.0? Her toxic was affected by Grineer armor, infested were resistant to them as well. And Corpus crewmen are probably the easiest enemy types to kill. Hell, the new change is for the better, especially now that it has a chance to proc viral, reducing health by HALF.

Miasma did worthless damage on higher leveled enemies, corrosive makes it useful on Grineer, and without penalty on other factions. 

I must admit that Saryn is one of my favorite frames, and I play her often, but I like to see balances to all frames. Since damage has changed hands a couple times since U11 [75% radiation damage vs infested, for example], some people may not be aware that Toxic currently deals +25% damage vs armor, and +50% damage vs flesh. As Grineer are both these things, that's about 75% damage increase just on Grineer. As Corpus crewmen are also flesh, but lack armor, they take +50%. However, although corrosive deals +75% to armor, which grineer have, Corpus don't, and therefore take no bonus damage. I will admit that flesh takes +50% from viral, and so both the aforementioned will take that, but Infested are -50% resistant to viral, whereas they have no stat change for toxic. In all, even if it's just a little, the new system deals less damage.

 

Accelerant is pretty much rhino roar but limited to powers and ignis. It doesn't sound bad at all.

Rhino Roar increases team damage within the vicinity of both their weapon and power strength. Out of that, and an option where potentially only Ember can benefit, I would take the Roar. Aside from that, you shouldn't have to cast two abilities just to gain the full effect of your fire powers.

 

1. I trust you know what a BERSERKER is, right? [snip]  Berserkers primary role isn't to rez, heal or support, it's to HIT STUFF.

 

2. I partially agree with you. I personally think damage should be toxic, not viral. After all, irl venom is indeed a toxin and not a virus. That said, other than that, all that you said is hogwash. The ability is not not the best against infested, but is good against all non-infested. So it changed it's preferred target (previously infested) to other enemies, and you don't like it as it is not your preference. And that is hogwash. Adapt to the game, don't expect the game to adapt to your preferences.

 

3. [snip] After all, this is an uber, and it is SUPPOSED to be powerful. It just so happens that it is now MORE powerful on Grineer.

 

4. However she was soaking up WAY more damage than she was supposed to, and thus, warranted for the ability change.

 

5. I partly agree with you. However, this last part seems more like a simple silly rant more than anything meant to serve as proper feedback. I partly agree that Saryn's proc should be 100% or something really close to that. I also agree that Ember was never used as a DoT frame. However, and let's be honest here, neither was Saryn. Saryn would go to the center of a room, pop miasma, see everything corrode and proceed to the next room to the same thing, all the while laughing and yawning. I like the changes to Ember because she retains her place as a "burst-damage" character, while keeping some properties of fire element.

 

6. I can confidently say you don't know much about design, but your intentions are good. You probably also like Saryn a lot and probably mains her, and sees any changes to her as a nerf or something bad when they, in reality, are not.

 

1. I know what a berserker is, and a berserker's abilities tend to allow it to soak up tons of damage while dealing tons of damage. Valkyr, in her Hysteria, is next to immobile while slashing around, and as I said, spin attacks and finishers deal next to no damage compared to the slashes. So, while she may hit stuff, she doesn't hit very far, or very fast, and in some cases, very hard.

2. I never said that toxic is 'the best at' killing Infested. What I said was that it's better than Viral, which has 50% resist. So, excuse me for being a might bit disappointed for DE changing toxic, which had +75% Grineer, +50% Corpus, and +0% Infested, to viral, which has +50%, +50%, and -25% respectively. Again, they may change the damage tables, but without knowing what those changes may be, if any, I'm going to judge by the current system they announced the changes under.

3. At this point, you just begin to sound pretentious. As said above, I'd rather have damage spread over all three factions, rather than the exact same amount of damage (75% for corrosive compared to 25%+50% for toxic) only to armored enemies. Also, while Miasma does state that it corrodes the enemy, it also says it's a lethally poisonous mist. Were a mist to be lethally poisonous AND corrosive, I'd say one would die of the lethal poison before sustaining enough acid damage to die from it.

4. Ember may have soaked up lots of damage before they nerfed her Overheat and made it 'offensive' rather than defensive, but when asked to change it back, DE just tossed it altogether. If the new ability was good, I'd be happy. Due to it's situational use, I am not.

5. Although DE decided that Ember's powers shouldn't reflect strong DoT, Saryn's powers of poison are the only other damage type that SHOULD be focused on DoT. It's the reason the Acrid used to be as good as it was, and why I could at one point poison an entire wave of corpus with Venom.

6. Pretentiousness rising, huh? Well you pegged me as liking Saryn, but that doesn't remove the fact that the other two frames in question here have problems as well. Saryn isn't my argument.. I don't have to see 'any changes to her as a nerf' because if you actually look at the numbers, they are an indirect nerf, and in regards to the ability changes on the other two, I think it's a mistake. Not that the current versions are good, all three need changes, but until I see that they're balanced, I'm going to assume that they're not.

Thank you for considering my points as much as you did though.

[Wurdyburd]

Overheat is diverse? It was a carbon copy of Iron Skin with a slight DPS buff and was utterly generic and boring to use, requiring no thought or any kind of actual effort to use properly.

I think what Archwizard meant is that out of Ember's four abilities, to throw fire, protect with fire, ring of fire, and giant ring of fire, Overheat was the only ability that did something other than offensively launching fire someplace.

[Vardog]

Molt is useless (at higher levels) and I doubt this update will change it. The change to Venom is probably the coolest since it'll give Saryn so much needed utility which she lacked before.  Miasma will become useful once more and Contagion still remains useless...

 

...I'm disappointed.

[Kellervo]

Molt is useless (at higher levels) and I doubt this update will change it. The change to Venom is probably the coolest since it'll give Saryn so much needed utility which she lacked before.  Miasma will become useful once more and Contagion still remains useless...

 

...I'm disappointed.

 

Uh. Contagion is a free +90% Toxin damage mod. With Dual Ichor + Pressure Point + Fever Strike + Contagion w/ Focus, you're going to be dealing close to 100 shield-bypassing damage per strike. Add on Spoiled Strike and it'll deal 135 damage per strike - with a Crit Chance build you have a 40% chance to deal 600+ damage. Add on an Electric mod for Corrosive damage and Grineer will just melt before you.

 

Used appropriately, Contagion is a very useful skill.

[Vardog]

Uh. Contagion is a free +90% Toxin damage mod. With Dual Ichor + Pressure Point + Fever Strike + Contagion w/ Focus, you're going to be dealing close to 100 shield-bypassing damage per strike. Add on Spoiled Strike and it'll deal 135 damage per strike - with a Crit Chance build you have a 40% chance to deal 600+ damage. Add on an Electric mod for Corrosive damage and Grineer will just melt before you.

 

Used appropriately, Contagion is a very useful skill.

 

All of that is meaningless when high level Grineer/Corpus can kill you before you can get into melee range. You're talking about an ideal situation that doesn't exist where all of the enemies are close to each other and for some reason don't kill you while you try to get near them.

 

 

I said it once I'll say it again, Contagion is useless. Unless you meant that is can be useful at low level gameplay in which case yes, I guess, still, it's not a skill to be taken seriously.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Vardog