Stalker 2.0 - An Overhaul To The Random Gearcheck That It Has Devolved To

[Madotsuki]

 

If there’s anything I’ve learnt while frequenting these forums, it’s that there’s only one kind of enemy/boss that the community will give the tiniest of nanof*cks around, and that’s rogue Tenno/the Stalker. So y’know what, let’s talk Stalker.

 

As most of you know, Stalker currently is a gearcheck. It cannot be defeated by skill, as it can auto-dispel or outright ignore pretty much any significant Warframe ability, it has aimbot accuracy combined with heavy damage, can freely teleport to the player or teleport them to it, and basically gib the target instantly. The only way to beat it is with high-end gear, OP weapons like Soma or Brakk that can insta-gib it before it insta-gibs the player. Not to mention it is basically programmed to appear most often when the target is trying to level new gear, just for that extra “challenge”.

 

The Stalker went from this unpredictable encounter that’s supposed to get the player’s adrenaline running to a horrible random gearcheck that is a nuisance at best and a revive toll gate at worst. It should not be this way. And while the odds of DE ever fixing the Stalker is as low as the odds of them switching Void rewards to a token system, I still thought it’d be fun to put this idea on the forums, if just to see what the community thinks (if this even gets read anyway).

 

So here we go, Stalker 2.0. Note that NOTHING from the current Stalker’s moveset is kept unless stated otherwise, we’re starting fresh.

 

 

Trigger Requirements

 

Similar to currently, upon killing a human boss (i.e. not a corpus robot, not Infested), there’s a chance a “hit marker” will be placed on the player, and the Stalker will appear within the next 5 non-boss missions played. One additional requirement is that the player’s Conclave rating must be above a certain amount, so the chance of a player encountering the Stalker while poorly equipped will be minimized.

 

Attacks

 

Dread Bow (Impact)

 

Precision shot: Draws the bow back and fires a single arrow at the target. Leads target. Notable sounds while charging bow and firing, giving players time to react and dodge roll/parry. Has to slow down to walking pace while bow is drawn, slow fire rate, about 0.5 sec charge speed.

 

Salvo: Notches 4 arrows at once and fires simultaneously. Does not lead target, so sprint horizontally to avoid. 0.5 sec charge speed, must stand still while bow is drawn.

 

Despair Kunai (Pierce)

 

Arc toss: Grabs 5 kunais and throws in a horizontal arc at target. No charging, just a quick grab and throw animation. Roll under arc, parry, or just dodge with speed/skill.

 

Hate Scythe (Slash)

 

Dispelling touch: The scythe is imbued with dispelling properties, getting struck by any of the scythe attacks will dispel all active buffs on the target, such as iron skin. Field-deployed abilities like Snow Globe etc. are not affected.

 

Tri-slash: Normal 3-hit combo attack. Horizontal, twirl, overhead.

Slash Dash: Excal’s slash dash. Whispers a unique taunt before using, so players get a chance to dodge.

Whirlwind: Upgraded charge attack. Does the scythe charge animation (0.75 sec), and spins with the scythe outstretched in a continuous whirlwind attack for 2 seconds, during which it is invulnerable. Can move at original crawler speed while spinning.

 

Ability Counters

 

Instead of an all-powerful auto-dispel that makes next to all abilities pointless, it instead has specific counters to different abilities that allows them to affect the battle without curb-stomping the Stalker. Below are some examples, though not all abilities are included for the sake of simplicity.

 

Projectile damage attacks (i.e. fireball, null star, shuriken etc.): Parries with Hate, blocking damage. Has to stop moving to block though, and cannot block when certain attacks are charging, like the Dread attacks.

 

Snow Globe: Projectiles cannot pierce it, but is not slowed while within. Will cause Stalker to go on the offensive and rush into the Globe for close-quarters combat, which may favor the player.

 

Bastille: Stalker is slowed while within. Will take escaping the Bastille as a priority and resort to ranged attacks while outside against players within.

 

Decoy/Moult: Will attack the Decoy, but upon a single strike will realize it’s a decoy and be unaffected by that particular Decoy from then.

 

Cloaking: Upon the target cloaking, will take out a smoke bomb and throw at the spot where the player cloaked. If caught within the smoke explosion, cloak will be disrupted. If player manages to escape the smoke bomb, it will instead either go after another target or go on the defensive, shooting/slashing whenever it is attacked until cloak expires with non-leading attacks.

 

Molecular Prime: Immediately use Whirlwind to shake off the antimatter, potentially giving players a little breathing room.

 

Stomp: Super Jumps to dodge the Stomp, and counters with a melee crash-down. This predictable behavior may be used to the player’s advantage.

 

 

And there you have it, Stalker 2.0. So, thoughts and comments, anyone? Think anything else can be improved, or are there any oversights? Don’t just thumbs the post, please leave a comment, even a short “+1” post is good support and bumping.

 

Thanks for reading this far.

 

~Madotsuki

Edited December 28, 2013 by Madotsuki

[N7Arthur]

I think this would be a nice way of revamping the stalker, a +1 to you OP, hopefully this doesn't get buried down.

[-Refractor-]

The only thing I see wrong with this is that he would become far too common once within 5 regular missions of EVERY boss killed of humanoid design, effectively he would lose his random element and just be easily avoided or quickly farmed, his appearing system now works fine in my opinion, but the rest of your changes look fine other than maybe making him a bit too easy to kill, maybe have multiple different responses to each power so there is still something he could surprise people with.

[lonelydrone]

nice! i like it.

 

+1

 

:D

[Hypercation]

I like these ideas, but I think the AI team has enough work. Still, +1.

 

Edit: I don't think the conclave requirement is needed. If the player is too weak for a one-on-one fight with the Stalker, they can simply run away from him. Also, I don't think there should be any guarantees about his spawning mechanics - his attacks should be as unexpected as possible. I think his spawn rate should be increased when playing solo, though.

 

My own suggestion: Weapon variety. I know that the three weapons he has now are made specifically for him and making more could be problematic, but more variety would make the Stalker both more challenging and more enjoyable. I'd like to see him use weapons like Braton Vandal (ahh, nostalgia), Bronco, Lex and Penta lol Kestrel, for example.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Hypercation

[Madotsuki]

The only thing I see wrong with this is that he would become far too common once within 5 regular missions of EVERY boss killed of humanoid design, effectively he would lose his random element and just be easily avoided or quickly farmed, his appearing system now works fine in my opinion, but the rest of your changes look fine other than maybe making him a bit too easy to kill, maybe have multiple different responses to each power so there is still something he could surprise people with.

Well there's only a CHANCE of getting a hit marker placed on you after killing a human boss, it's not guaranteed, so there IS still a random element to it. But for hardcore farmers, at least they'll know they haven't been marked if they go 5 runs without a stalker after killing one such boss, and can then try again.

 

I like these ideas, but I think the AI team has enough work.

 

My own suggestion: Weapon variety. I know that the three weapons he has now are made specifically for him and making more could be problematic, but more variety would make the Stalker both more challenging and more enjoyable. I'd like to see him use weapons like Braton Vandal (ahh, nostalgia), Bronco, Lex and Penta lol Kestrel, for example.

I'm pretty sure the reason they swapped out his Braton Vandal (he actually used that when first released) for a bow was because hitscan took a lot of potential strategy out of the fight. A Stalker Glaive as a potential replacement weapon could work though, though it probably wouldn't work with the melee attacks listed in here. Of course, AI is indeed very hard to code, but a good product comes from hard work, so expecting the devs to put some real effort into overhauling important things seems pretty reasonable :/

[Volt_Cruelerz]

/signed

[Archistopheles]

As most of you know, Stalker currently is a gearcheck. It cannot be defeated by skill, as it can auto-dispel or outright ignore pretty much any significant Warframe ability, it has aimbot accuracy combined with heavy damage, can freely teleport to the player or teleport them to it, and basically gib the target instantly.

 

But that's simply not true.

 

Yes he is immune to Warframe abilities, but defensive abilities still work.

 

Yes he has "aimbot" accuracy, but the dread arrow has a flight time. Everyone hates rolling, but this is one of the times when rolling can be used to dodge an arrow - same goes for his slash-dash. All of those suggestions are of course trumped by cover - you know, that thing we forget about.

 

Yes he can teleport to a player, but it's hardly "free" as he needs to be scripted. He isn't sentient. He's programmed. The part that kills people is the bleed DoT from any slash weapon which is currently bipassing shielding and chunking more than 300 health per proc! Fix the bleed, and he can't gib anyone.

 

Because he appears so infrequently, it takes a long time to practice for his arrival, but with good positioning, patience, and some quick reaction speeds, he can be taken down.

 

Skill check - yes

 

Caffeine check - yep

[RazorTip]

A good idea, +1 rep for a well thought-out revamp for the Stalker. Just one thing bugs me though...

 

Whirlwind: Upgraded charge attack. Does the scythe charge animation (0.75 sec), and spins with the scythe outstretched in a continuous whirlwind attack for 2 seconds, during which it is invulnerable. Can move at original crawler speed while spinning.

 

So, basically, he becomes the next Garen?

Edited December 28, 2013 by RazorTip

[Shinobi-kun]

My thoughts, Stalker gives up Absorb and Pull. Best, Dispel too and I'll be one happy panda.

[Liminal]

Not bad at all.

[Leuca]

But that's simply not true.

 

Yes he is immune to Warframe abilities, but defensive abilities still work.

 

Yes he has "aimbot" accuracy, but the dread arrow has a flight time. Everyone hates rolling, but this is one of the times when rolling can be used to dodge an arrow - same goes for his slash-dash. All of those suggestions are of course trumped by cover - you know, that thing we forget about.

 

Yes he can teleport to a player, but it's hardly "free" as he needs to be scripted. He isn't sentient. He's programmed. The part that kills people is the bleed DoT from any slash weapon which is currently bipassing shielding and chunking more than 300 health per proc! Fix the bleed, and he can't gib anyone.

 

Because he appears so infrequently, it takes a long time to practice for his arrival, but with good positioning, patience, and some quick reaction speeds, he can be taken down.

 

Skill check - yes

 

Caffeine check - yep

No, defensive abilities do not work if he is targeting you. Try using Link, Blessing, Iron Skin, Null Star... the list goes on; the Stalker will perform an animation and stun you while dispelling the ability. He does NOT dispel abilities that have no persistent effect, like Shield Polarize and Psychic Bolts.

 

Cover means nothing if the Stalker's AI decides to teleport to you or spam Pull, neither of which require line of sight for him to activate.

 

He is not a skill check in the slightest. He is always a gear/luck check.

[SnaleKing]

^ All true. I hate the random gearcheck.

[A5PECT]

I think there are two options DE can take when it comes to Dispel:

 

1) Remove Dispel.

 

2) Remove all of the Stalker's abilities except Dispel.

[Tsukinoki]

@Archistopheles
Here are the issues with stalker that prove he's not a skill check at all:
-You bring shade along your dead because of dispel spam, which means you are stagger locked while he kills you because of how fast shade can re-cloak you.

-He can fire dread, then fire dispair, and go back to firing dread *without* doing a weapon swap animation.  And I have had this happen in solo so dont try to bring up "laggy host"
-He can spam pull on the player, without requiring LOS, which means you cant even run from him.
-He nullifies any defensive ability of his target and most offensive abilities don't deal nearly enough damage to even tickle him.
-If your fighting him solo and are not in god tier gear (because, shock, you are leveling gear (I know your thinking how dare we not always bring level 30 super gear into missions)) you wont even be able to tickle his shields before he kills you.  And there is no skill that will allow you survive that encounter without abusing his AI (which, shock, isn't always possible)
-He can pull you off of cover or teleport up to you, making cover useless as he can teleport and slash dash instantly without you even being able to see where he's coming from or anything.

None of that adds up to being a skill check.
Its pretty much: Are you in god tier gear 100% of the time and never use shade?  If so you might win, if not you lose a revive.

[Mephiste]

Don't worry guys. DE will fix.

[Madotsuki]

I think there are two options DE can take when it comes to Dispel:

 

1) Remove Dispel.

 

2) Remove all of the Stalker's abilities except Dispel.

Thing is, Dispels have their place in the game, as it's a countermeasure against some of the abilities like Iron Skin that are designed for use against large amounts of disposable mobs that deal a high total DPS, and thus are relatively OP against elite enemies/bosses that tend to be on their own. It's a way of discerning a strong opponent that's supposed to be taken seriously from a regular run-of-the-mill mook. The problem is that Dispelling has to be done RIGHT as abilities are supposed to be a core mechanic of the game and combat, instead of this lazy auto-dispel that subtracts from the gameplay instead of adding to it.

[Leuca]

Thing is, Dispels have their place in the game, as it's a countermeasure against some of the abilities like Iron Skin that are designed for use against large amounts of disposable mobs that deal a high total DPS, and thus are relatively OP against elite enemies/bosses that tend to be on their own. It's a way of discerning a strong opponent that's supposed to be taken seriously from a regular run-of-the-mill mook. The problem is that Dispelling has to be done RIGHT as abilities are supposed to be a core mechanic of the game and combat, instead of this lazy auto-dispel that subtracts from the gameplay instead of adding to it.

I agree for the most part. The stalker currently can't tell the difference between Null Star and Iron Skin, when they have completely different effects and should be prioritized differently.

[Liminal]

Thing is, Dispels have their place in the game, as it's a countermeasure against some of the abilities like Iron Skin that are designed for use against large amounts of disposable mobs that deal a high total DPS, and thus are relatively OP against elite enemies/bosses that tend to be on their own. It's a way of discerning a strong opponent that's supposed to be taken seriously from a regular run-of-the-mill mook. The problem is that Dispelling has to be done RIGHT as abilities are supposed to be a core mechanic of the game and combat, instead of this lazy auto-dispel that subtracts from the gameplay instead of adding to it.

Well, for starters it shouldn't stagger :P