You Call This Archery?

[Dequire]

I recently decided to up the ante of my arsenal, because my Bronco sidearm was just not doing it against the Corpus. I needed something REALLY specialised that would be able to rip them up, something that was built to tear apart shields. Thus, I came to the conclusion that an anti-shield bow should be able to do the trick. A little hunting for Gallium and I was ready to rumble.

 

For the first while that I tested it on Grineer (The very first mission) I was happy. But then I noticed a few things. Namely, the fact that you simply can NOT pick up arrows that you've fired again and are forced to find new rounds in rather rare sniper ammo boxes, that you have rather little starting ammo, and that it seems rather.. slow for a very thin, speeding projectile.

 

I will tell you right now, that I practice archery. I consider it a very noble sport and skill, still being one of the few truly honorable ways to hunt for food (I detest hunting for sport, but a guys gotta eat). And I can tell you right now, that an arrow flies WAY faster than that S#&$. It certainly isn't a hit scan, but when a bow is fired, it's gonna get there before you can realize it's been fired at your skull. It isn't a flying block, it's an ARROW being released from a very high tense string. A thin, light projectile fired from a strong, even rapid pressure force. Treat it like one!

 

Next is the fact that you can't pick up the arrows that you've fired. Sniper ammo is already rare enough that if you're not one-hitting everything guaranteed, you're going to run out quick. Far too quick for it to be reliable. Unless you're willing to start making sniper ammo more common, then allow archers to use common sense and yank that freshly fired arrow out of the poor bastard's spleen, and use it again. It's still a perfectly good arrow. Perhaps even put a glow on the back end of the arrow's shaft to make them a bit easier to track. Obviously you won't be able to get ALL of them with how it tends to fling enemies around and stick them to walls by uncomfortable means, but it would still make conserving ammo a LOT easier.

 

My last gripe, which is more of a question.. What the hell is with the damage? Sometimes I'll fire it at a Corpus Crewman and it'll one hit and stick them to the wall. Fairly often. Right up to the point that the alarm is triggered. After that it takes 4-5 arrows to actually take down Crewman and MOA alike. If bows get a big damage buff from stealth, and there is a serious issue here.

[Archistopheles]

Yeah but, you know. It's a video game.

[War_Admiral_Adama]

Ohh, hello new guy..

 

Firstly, get mods before you determine a weapons usability. The Cernos is garbage, the Paris is okay. I recommend the Paris Prime. You now just need maxed Serration, Split Chamber, Thunderbolt, Crit mods, etc. before you see a bows potential. Everything in this game without mods is pretty much useless. 

[SpFinX]

Ammo issue can be solved with ammo mutation mod.

 

Crewman's heads cannot be headshotted... for now. It's a bug and it's gonna be fixed soon. Right now they take much less damage than body shot.

 

And yes, arrow speed is total $#@&. Even my hand-made bow launched them at better speed.

Edited January 2, 2014 by SpFinX

[ensignvidiot]

Ohh, hello new guy..

 

Firstly, get mods before you determine a weapons usability. The Cernos is garbage, the Paris is okay. I recommend the Paris Prime. You now just need maxed Serration, Split Chamber, Thunderbolt, Crit mods, etc. before you see a bows potential. Everything in this game without mods is pretty much useless. 

 

it isn't garbage, it does it job very well.

 

I think he isn't hitting centermass on corpus techs/crewman. Headshots do neglible damage against them

 

Yeah but, you know. It's a video game.

 

still, im sad I cant recover 33% of the arrows I fire.

Edited January 2, 2014 by ensignvidiot

[xlraistlx]

So you want logic on a videogame where you play as a space ninja with somehat magic powers? Good luck with that!

 

My last gripe, which is more of a question.. What the hell is with the damage? Sometimes I'll fire it at a Corpus Crewman and it'll one hit and stick them to the wall. Fairly often. Right up to the point that the alarm is triggered. After that it takes 4-5 arrows to actually take down Crewman and MOA alike. If bows get a big damage buff from stealth, and there is a serious issue here.

Are you sure you're not hitting the crewmen heads or the MOAs guns?

[Dequire]

Ohh, hello new guy..

 

Firstly, get mods before you determine a weapons usability. The Cernos is garbage, the Paris is okay. I recommend the Paris Prime. You now just need maxed Serration, Split Chamber, Thunderbolt, Crit mods, etc. before you see a bows potential. Everything in this game without mods is pretty much useless. 

For something beyond, I'unno, VENUS, yeah, I can understand the need for mods. I'm leveling the Cernos right now. But seriously? The first friggin' Corpus mission? You're telling me I need to deck out my ANTI-SHIELD BOW with a ton of mods to be able to dig through shields?

 

 

 

Ammo issue can be solved with ammo mutation mod.

 

Crewman's heads cannot be headshotted... for now. It's a bug and it's gonna be fixed soon. Right now they take much less damage than body shot.

 

And yes, arrow speed is total $#@&. Even my hand-made bow launched them at better speed.

I realize that, actually. Made a point of it in my other topic about Grineer/Corpus balance. I've been hitting center mass, even on MOA's, where their head supposedly is.

[Aure7]

ammo doesn't seem to be an issue for me when I am using bows. But yeah arrow velocity could be a little bigger, I don't really know because I hadn't seen much of real bows.

[Drazhar14]

I agree what the OP said about arrow flight speed. If you are just tapping the fire button then yeah, they should be slow. But if you pull back the string and fully charge it, it should go a lot faster. Also, with all charge weapons in this game, there is no inbetween. If you charge it up half way, then let go, it will still act like an uncharged shot. The damage and speed of the projectile should scale with how long you hold down the fire button for. It doesn't make sense having no bonus for charging it anywhere between 1-99%.

[bejuizb]

I agree with what you say OP. The arrows need to move a hell of a lot faster.

[Dequire]

So you want logic on a videogame where you play as a space ninja with somehat magic powers? Good luck with that!

 

Are you sure you're not hitting the crewmen heads or the MOAs guns?

Things bleed when you cut them, don't they? When you throw someone into a molecular worm hole you just made they cease to exist, don't they? Seems like plenty of logic to me.

 

A single feature like "magic" in a game doesn't outlaw logic. It just means that there's more to apply logic to.

 

Also, in 200 years when there's actually space ninjas.. I'm going to point at you and laugh, wherever the hell we happen to go when we pass on. Just sayin'.

[AhziDahaka]

I can understand and appreciate a passion for something that isn't accurately rendered in a game like this, but I think the gameplay ultimately takes precedence here, and for the purposes of gameplay the slower-than-realistic arrow speed makes things more interesting.

 

As for ammo recovery, the limited ammunition is meant to be one of the drawbacks of sniper weapons.  You're really not intended to kill everything with your bow, plus they're an excellent stealth option to minimize the number of targets you need to shoot at to begin with.  It's highly recommended to have a shorter-range sidearm with some kick when you're running with a bow.  If anything I find certain rifles and pistols actually have much worse ammo economy than snipers do!

 

As for Cernos, it inexplicably sucks somehow. I don't know how but even with things like max Serration and so on that thing just refused to perform against even mid-level Corpus for me.  I'm actually wondering if there is something seriously wrong with impact damage.  Meanwhile, my Paris Prime scores 7k headshots against Grineer.

[ensignvidiot]

I think throwing Magnetic Damage on your bow would fix your damage issue vs corpus, the elemental mods don't even need to be high level either.

[Llyssa]

First point I *must* know:

 

How?

 

You can fire the bow by clicking, or if you click and hold, you pull back the string further to "charge" the shot.

 

A quick-fire arrow is one of the most worthless attacks in the game. If you actually take the charge time(which you can speed up with appropriate mods), it's quite devestating.

 

My knee-jerk reaction here is that you aren't charging your shots.

 

You say you're an archer, so consider what happens if you knock an arrow, flick your wrist back and release. That's what the standard fire of the bows roughly does.

 

The full charge is actually drawing it to length before firing. Same concepts, same differences in damage output.

 

Also, pretty much all weapons IRL are hitscan, and a proper machinegun can fire over 1,000 rounds per second. This is a videogame, That sort of stuff isn't as interesting to look at, as the really flashy, much slower things they have--it's like those kung fu movies where they play the battles in slow motion so you can actually watch what happens. Same deal.

[Llyssa]

Oh, also, as far as arrow recovery, considering the fact you're carrying 72 of them, that's insane(have you ever had even HALF that many arrows in a quiver?) and if you look at them, they're technology pieces with glowing parts and electric tips. It's rather silly to think that would survive impact. It's fairly safe to say they're wrecked once used.

 

And, as others have pointed out, arrow mutation mod will do wonders for you, and, as nobody mentioned, you can also use a maxxed Ammo Drum to bring your number of arrows up to 94.

[Llyssa]

One last thing, there's a sniper scavenger mod you can use to increase the drop rate of sniper ammo to up to 250% of normal.

[ensignvidiot]

One last thing, there's a sniper scavenger mod you can use to increase the drop rate of sniper ammo to up to 250% of normal.

 

Which takes up the slot everyone uses for energy siphon or regeneration. But there is the Sniper Ammo Conversion Mod.... which is super rare, and expensive if you want to trade for it.

 

 

Oh, also, as far as arrow recovery, considering the fact you're carrying 72 of them, that's insane(have you ever had even HALF that many arrows in a quiver?)

 

yes I have, its quite easy

 

 if you look at them, they're technology pieces with glowing parts and electric tips. It's rather silly to think that would survive impact. It's fairly safe to say they're wrecked once used.

 

you used that train of logic backwards, is safe to say the shaft would be made of some insane future space-ninja alloy that's tough as hell. I mean, come on, it can Hold A HeavyGunner onto a Wall Indefinitely. An arrow capable of that should be strong enough to be recovered 1/3rd of the time.

 

 

 

That sort of stuff isn't as interesting to look at, as the really flashy, much slower things they have--it's like those kung fu movies where they play the battles in slow motion so you can actually watch what happens. Same deal.

 

Keep in mind they DRASTICALLY sped up Bolt weapons so they are more viable, why cant they give bows the same treatment for a Full-Charge shot?

 

Currently if I want to use a bow I HAVE to use my Dread because it flies the fastest and straightest

[Dequire]

First point I *must* know:

 

How?

 

You can fire the bow by clicking, or if you click and hold, you pull back the string further to "charge" the shot.

 

A quick-fire arrow is one of the most worthless attacks in the game. If you actually take the charge time(which you can speed up with appropriate mods), it's quite devestating.

 

My knee-jerk reaction here is that you aren't charging your shots.

 

You say you're an archer, so consider what happens if you knock an arrow, flick your wrist back and release. That's what the standard fire of the bows roughly does.

 

The full charge is actually drawing it to length before firing. Same concepts, same differences in damage output.

 

Also, pretty much all weapons IRL are hitscan, and a proper machinegun can fire over 1,000 rounds per second. This is a videogame, That sort of stuff isn't as interesting to look at, as the really flashy, much slower things they have--it's like those kung fu movies where they play the battles in slow motion so you can actually watch what happens. Same deal.

I'm just gonna go ahead and reply to it all in one go (Nice job finding the edit button by the way).

 

For one.. did I ever bloody mention I wasn't charging my shots? Who the hell see's "charge shot" and then just clicks? It's a BOW. What kind of idiot do you take me for?

 

And yes, IRL, a balistic round does tend to be EXTREMELY fast. But it's not instant. A sniper will have to aim ahead of his target, and even a rifleman if it's a fair range. Bullets are not instant. As for the 1K RPS, yeah. But not everything is a machine gun. And you can have it realistic, functional, AND cool looking at the same time with some well applied effects and some thought into the way it works. But we're not talking about the rifles here. We're talking about the bows.

 

On the arrow recovery, Ensignvidiot beat me to the punch pretty well. High power futuristic bow with tech, means high density futuristic metals made to last. You're gonna find a few intact arrows. I've put the damn things through a Bombard head, they can take a few bounces.

 

On the mod, yes. That's wonderful. ...For people who have the mod. For people who don't know where it is, don't have the resources to buff it, or simply don't have the space (Which is pretty likely), or any combination of the previous, you're screwed. Thanks for that! And I'm not saying to increase the quiver size. The current quiver would do fine if I could just pick up my friggin' arrows.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Dequire

[OptimumBow0]

I've used the Paris a bit, and I have taken archery in gym class

 

The in-game bolts do seem slow, yet the amount of time they take to reach their target is negligibly small; only a bit slower than an arrow fired when using a real compound bow.

 

Picking up arrows, though? I don't see how you can; if it's gonna pin an enemy to a steel wall/floor, then I don't think that arrow-head is usable anymore.

[Archistopheles]

@Llyssa - Use the Edit button to add in your extra thoughts. Avoid spamming a thread with your post directly under your own posts.

[Polsvoyce]

I was always a bit disappointed I couldn't pick up the arrows I fired.

[direcyphre]

Things bleed when you cut them, don't they? When you throw someone into a molecular worm hole you just made they cease to exist, don't they? Seems like plenty of logic to me.

 

A single feature like "magic" in a game doesn't outlaw logic. It just means that there's more to apply logic to.

 

Also, in 200 years when there's actually space ninjas.. I'm going to point at you and laugh, wherever the hell we happen to go when we pass on. Just sayin'.

Unfortunately, the logic here is, first and foremost "This is a video game." The mechanics therein are dictated by the mechanics of said game. Doesn't matter how it works in real life, doesn't matter how it works in other games. This isn't DayZ or some realism simulator. No explanation needed; if you happen to like real archery, that's great! Sadly, inapplicable to the mechanics and space magic of a distant future with space ninjas.

[Raydiayt]

Can confirm arrow speed problem, am archer too.

In-game arrow speed is the equivalent to the extreme weakest of bows ever made whether it be any kind of bow.

 

I do not have a problem with ammo though, I believe it is fair.

Increasing arrow speed would be an amazing buff to bows, and is better than flat out damage increases.

[Llyssa]

I've seen a lot of people try to use bows in game and not charge their shot. It's inconvenient, they may not realize it's possible, and you NEVER mentioned charging your shot, so it's a rather safe bet you fall into that crowd, particularly when you're having problems killing things on venus in 5 hits when I can kill things in pluto in 5 hits with the same weapon.

 

If you're fully charging, maybe you suck at aiming, or are missing due to lag and don't know it, or corpus got a magical buff against arrows in the last 5 days. Any and all of those are possible, but the first and foremost option, since you didn't mention charging your shot, was that you simply didn't charge your shot.

 

As to the edit people, I'm aware of the function, but up to the point I was posting, people were posting here at 1 minute intervals, and my posts were over a span of 10 minutes, so without refreshing the page to double check, it seemed safe to suppose that more had been posted before I sent.

[lautalocos]

Ohh, hello new guy..

 

Firstly, get mods before you determine a weapons usability. The Cernos is garbage, the Paris is okay. I recommend the Paris Prime. You now just need maxed Serration, Split Chamber, Thunderbolt, Crit mods, etc. before you see a bows potential. Everything in this game without mods is pretty much useless. 

it shouldnt need mods in the very first mission in the game.