Penta / Stug Grenades Shouldn't Kill You

[magusat999]

First of all let me address the bounce on the Penta grenades - or rather the surfaces it bounces off of. A small divot or tiny raise in the surface - such as a raised design on the floor should not be sufficient to cause the grenade to come roaring back at YOU I don't even think its right to have those details affect the bounce of the grenade at all. The reflective bounce should be more predictable with only the basic surface shape having an effect on it - not every nook and cranny. We aren't going for hyper-realism here - we are looking for reliability and some degree of predictability.

 

The Stug's sticky bombs are for the most part okay - but at times the don't go off until you pass by and BOOM! your down. I really wish you would completely remove the damaging effect on the player of the Stug - but if not at least turn the damage down. The same goes for the Penta's missiles - yeah, we know it's powerful, but jeez, does it have to kill us?

 

I don't understand or appreciate why there are weapons that damage the player at all, but if your going to add that feature, I ask that you dial it down so people don't commit suicide. I see it in all levels of players, including myself. I fire my Stug over a ledge, get ready to jump over the same ledge - and find myself bleeding out because one of the sticky bombs was stuck to the ledge. I am firing down a hallway with my Penta, and one of the grenades reflects back behind me because it touched a wall ornament and same result - dead.

 

Some small amount of damage is understandable, but killing (or in the case of Rhino wiping out his Iron Skin) is ludicrous and not fun. Please dial down the player effect on these types of weapons!

Edited January 4, 2014 by magusat999

[SpilockT_T]

DE did this to prevent players from Kamikaze around the map..

[Earz]

Not a single mention of the Ogris? Argument invalid.

Do I have to give you the science behind explosions? Actually, just listen to this.

[Riccoshot]

Count this as balance to a massive AoE weapons.

Yes it supposed to kill you.

Deal with it.

L2hownottomakethishappen

[Archistopheles]

Two of the most powerful weapons in the game should have drawbacks.

[Sweetie_Belle]

Explosions are nothing with a little uber blessing.

[Archistopheles]

Explosions are nothing with a little uber blessing.

 

What does that have to do with Team fortress 2?

[Sweetie_Belle]

What does that have to do with Team fortress 2?

Uber means 4th power, Blessing is Trinity's fourth power and the demoman uses sticky bombs and grenades. How is this not relatable?

EDIT: To reiterate, Blessing makes you invulnerable, like the demoman picture in question.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Sweetie_Belle

[Alighierian]

What does that have to do with Team fortress 2?

 

nothing much, probably. but the picture is perfect.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Alighierian

[magusat999]

Not a single mention of the Ogris? Argument invalid.

Do I have to give you the science behind explosions? Actually, just listen to this.

I didn't specify the Ogris by name but I did say this "Please dial down the player effect on these types of weapons" which applies to all of these including the Ogris.

[tahrox]

Let's just make the most powerful weapons, even more powerful!

[Tsukinoki]

@magusat999
Its a balancing feature of the guns.

If they had no drawback they would be OP(Who am I kidding they WOULD be even MORE op than they are now) with how high their damage is combined with thier large AOE effects.  As it is the danger that you'll kill yourself (And this is ANY self explosion: Thunderbolt on bows, Ogris, Penta, Stug) balances it out because if you aren't careful you can and will blow yourself up.

I think its a pretty decent balancing factor.  If you arent careful with some of the most powerful weapons in the game you are going to kill yourself.  Whats the point of making OP weapons even more OP?

Edited January 4, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[magusat999]

Play survival for over 40 minutes and then come back and tell me how "OP" these weapons are. Yeah - I thought not.

[Sweetie_Belle]

@magusat999

Its a balancing feature of the guns.

If they had no drawback they would be getting near OP with how high their damage is combined with thier large AOE effects.  As it is the danger that you'll kill yourself (And this is ANY self explosion: Thunderbolt on bows, Ogris, Penta, Stug) balances it out because if you aren't careful you can and will blow yourself up.

I think its a pretty decent balancing factor.

If it wasn't, everyone and their dead relatives would be running explosive Trinity I assure you. Took half health on a blast? Well of Life and chuck a shell, no problemo.

[DHKany]

No. Just, no. 

 

As if they weren't brain dead enough. 

[magusat999]

@magusat999

Its a balancing feature of the guns.

If they had no drawback they would be OP(Who am I kidding they WOULD be even MORE op than they are now) with how high their damage is combined with thier large AOE effects.  As it is the danger that you'll kill yourself (And this is ANY self explosion: Thunderbolt on bows, Ogris, Penta, Stug) balances it out because if you aren't careful you can and will blow yourself up.

I think its a pretty decent balancing factor.  If you arent careful with some of the most powerful weapons in the game you are going to kill yourself.  Whats the point of making OP weapons even more OP?

I dont think it "balances" to make them one shot kill you. As I said in my original post, they can have some damage to the player - but not insta-kill. WHere is the Torid's toxic cloud damage, if you are going to take that position? Toxics are the most lethal type of damage in the game, but DE decided to remove the toxic effect of the Torid's cloud from damaging players. I feel the same logic should go into the explosive weapons.

 

And why should power have drawbacks? What makes the "OP" and why shouldn't we have so-called "OP" weapons? Who is it hurting???

[Otaiken]

Let's just make the most powerful weapons, even more powerful!

 

They are not the most powerful. Those weapons are good at what they do, but most powerful? No. 4 guys with Penta will die very quickly at higher levels, you need someone with more versatile weapon with you to cover your back.

 

Though I don't think the self damage should be removed. The fact that you are unable to use them in a close range is a weakness and that weakness is pretty important balancing factor.

 

I also like that you have to think about what you're doing as opposed to spraying everything in front of you.

Edited January 4, 2014 by LocoWithGun

[DHKany]

Play survival for over 40 minutes and then come back and tell me how "OP" these weapons are. Yeah - I thought not.

 

This logic again. 

 

Also, da hell kind of build are you using. Penta and Ogris EASILY 1 shot wave 50 ODD enemies assuming you don't have your head up your &#! while putting on the mods. 

[Sweetie_Belle]

They are not the most powerful. Those weapons are good at what they do, but most powerful? No. 4 guys with Penta will die very quickly at higher levels, you need someone with more versatile weapon with you to cover your back.

 

Though I don't think the self damage should be removed. The fact that you are unable to use them in a close range is a weakness and that weakness is pretty important balancing factor.

In anything not hallway-based, explosives is king for crowd control. Just ask all of those wave 100 Defense players, they got there with wits and explosives.

[DHKany]

They are not the most powerful. Those weapons are good at what they do, but most powerful? No. 4 guys with Penta will die very quickly at higher levels, you need someone with more versatile weapon with you to cover your back.

 

Though I don't think the self damage should be removed. The fact that you are unable to use them in a close range is a weakness and that weakness is pretty important balancing factor.

I don't know about you, but none of my other guns 1 shot level 70+ enemies in an AOE whilst having to use minimal aim. 

In terms of damage, they are without a doubt the most powerful.

[Archistopheles]

Blessing makes you invulnerable, like the demoman picture

 

 

When I played TF2, there was no such thing as invulnerabilities, so I was confused.

[DHKany]

When I played TF2, there was no such thing as invulnerabilities, so I was confused.

Medic Vanilla Uber. 

[Archistopheles]

Medic Vanilla Uber. 

 

It's been like 4 years. I admit that I've forgotten most of the game at this point.

 

Again, color me confused.

[magusat999]

This logic again. 

 

Also, da hell kind of build are you using. Penta and Ogris EASILY 1 shot wave 50 ODD enemies assuming you don't have your head up your &#! while putting on the mods. 

Level 50? Try level 80+, Iv'e seen my Penta - which can one shot those level 50's as you said, take 3-6 shots (overhead head-shots, which are the most powerful, btw) to take down some of the enemies, particularly Ancients at that level.

 

I'd like the game to reflect the fact that we are highly skilled cyber ninjas with cybernetic suits that PROTECT us - not make us out to be like:

 

[Otaiken]

I don't know about you, but none of my other guns 1 shot level 70+ enemies in an AOE whilst having to use minimal aim. 

In terms of damage, they are without a doubt the most powerful.

 

Minimal aim? You have to airbust Grineer and you must avoid doing the same for Corpus as they take little damage from headshots, the hit detection is wonky with explosions and it certainly takes some practice. If you want to get fancy you might even detonate behind MOAs to hit their weak back.

 

The projectile travel speed is slow and the fact that you have to time your detonation for maximum damage reduces your overall DPS. Those weapons need to be AoE for that very reason.

 

With Soma or Flux, especially with Shred you can cut down a group of enemies pretty quickly. Not as fast, but still pretty quickly and your DPS against single targets is much better. You can also use them at close range and when you get surrounded (surrounded with Penta? GG) or you can snipe from much bigger range (well, not with flux).

 

I'm not saying those weapons are not powerful.. but they are not answer to all and the best weapons in the game. I'd much rather have 1 or 2 guys with Penta in a team and others with other weapons.

 

One exception may be infested defence or survival... though I never take Penta to those.. it's too boring imho. But I can't blame people for wanting to be as efficient as possible.

Edited January 4, 2014 by LocoWithGun