An Open Letter To De From Your Veterans (The megathread)

[Kitaiikan]

The livestream was a definite bummer. Rebecca was very serious with the questions (and I want to thank her for that) but the devs simply shook them off. Seriousness where seriousness is required is something that is to be expected. Derping around and avoiding productive and coherent answers isn't the right way to answer the long drawn out questions of the community.

 

+1

 

Rebecca was more professional then everybody else in the room, saddly.

I have the feeling that they take every livestream like the first one, when some few people playing at the game and where happy with anything new.

 

But the game and the community as change, it's bigger and they should change their behavior in consequence.

Definitly in my opinion (and I can think i'm not the only one) L20 was a fail. Nothing has been annonce, nothing important, nothing new, at the opposit people became more frustraded so, what was the purpose of these Livestream ? And for after ?

Make joke and be cool was nice but that definitly doesn't build a game, and you can't answer a joke when people ask about serious things.

 

Sadly but i'm start to losing hope that anything will be better (i hope that i'm wrong but if not maybe it's time to move on?) but then again i'm still playing from time to time (i suppose that i'm some kind of masochist, lol ;d )

 

I hope that wasn't masochist, we love Warframe and even if DE loose our hope, we want the best for these game.

[SpFinX]

 

 

2. take just little bit of time to test some changes before unleashing them on us, and then having to reverse your decisions later, frustrating us further.

 

This. I'm shocked again and again looking at obvious mistakes, mistypings and just silly thing in every update. The very last one - It doesn't take to be a professional to guess that Drakgoon is supposed to use shotgun ammo. Another - less obvious, but a minute thought over it (while update was downloading) makes i t rather obvious "Continous weapons damage is now applied in bigger portions ever 0,X sec to make it look better and allow you to see the difference when putting a mod". How could NO ONE guess that it means that for first "0,X" seconds NO damage is applied and you can't kill them that fast anymore, thus wasting a lot of ammo. OMG, i'm so glad i've leveled all of them and sold already.

Edited January 13, 2014 by SpFinX

[laubauflo]

THIS GAME IS TOO EASY

For you maybe. Stop being a $&*^ about that.

[VegetableBasket]

For you maybe. Stop being a $&*^ about that.

How is he being a $&*^? He's 100% right. Do you struggle with literally anything in the game?

[-XeqtR]

For you maybe. Stop being a $&*^ about that.

He's talking about people who have full weapons/mods/frames (Veterans....). The game really is a cake walk - the only real challenge for endless survival+defense is how long you can sit in front of your computer before you get bored. Higher enemy levels don't make it harder. I'll agree that for new players it might be a bit challenging.

[Kaian-a-coel]

He's talking about people who have full weapons/mods/frames (Veterans....). The game really is a cake walk - the only real challenge for endless survival+defense is how long you can sit in front of your computer before you get bored. Higher enemy levels don't make it harder. I'll agree that for new players it might be a bit challenging.

I do agree that the game is either too damn hard or too damn easy. New players literally cannot get out of even venus without outside help, luck, or insane grind for mods. Veterans can go through wave 100 on ODD without breaking a sweat while killing level 8000 ennemies (that's why it has been fixed)

 

Also? I want veterans to be on the couch next livestream. Well, maybe just on Skype but you get my point.

Probably Founders, just because they were the ones to be promised involvement. Preferably hand-picked by the community, not DE.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Kaian-a-coel

[Methanoid]

The livestream was a definite bummer. Rebecca was very serious with the questions (and I want to thank her for that) but the devs simply shook them off. Seriousness where seriousness is required is something that is to be expected. Derping around and avoiding productive and coherent answers isn't the right way to answer the long drawn out questions of the community.

 

if they dont know the answer theres not a lot else they can do apart from talk rubbish or guesswork, dodging the questions is pretty normal until they have concrete answers to give, if they dont have them yet because their not finished working things out, all we can do is wait until a future update or livestream soon.

[-XeqtR]

I do agree that the game is either too damn hard or too damn easy. New players literally cannot get out of even venus without outside help, luck, or insane grind for mods. Veterans can go through wave 100 on ODD without breaking a sweat while killing level 8000 ennemies (that's why it has been fixed)

 

Also? I want veterans to be on the couch next livestream. Well, maybe just on Skype but you get my point.

Probably Founders, just because they were the ones to be promised involvement. Preferably hand-picked by the community, not DE.

It's a good idea, but I think the same issue will arise. When asked a serious question they're going to drink more alcohol and answer it jokingly. I haven't seen a serious DE answer on a livestream in a while - it's really getting old. Here's to hopeful thinking!

[Chaosdreamer]

I'll make mine way shorter than you guys probably but here a shoot...

 

So, i started the game approx 1 year ago  , now I'm in top , rank 14 ,all planet cleared,nothing to create , nothing to fight for , except if i want to go for glaive prime , but I don't wanna take fight in which i can't win , Rng is against me on that .

 

As I said , except the glaive prime i don't have any content left , except the founder item but they are gone (and wouldn't purchase since there is nothing left to do)

 

but here my major problem : 

I can't do anything "good" because : 

All planet is cleared so ...not fun

Most of weapon is done are being completed -> Not fun only bad weapon left

Have all frame -> the way to get the prime is just Hell

Scan -> time to time but really boring i don't see the point ,if i wanted to play Pokemon i wouldn't be on warframe)

Boss -> Weak , Never change , always same strats,oh and DPS limit...the little fun i had to kill boss really fast is dead with that

So what I'm left to do?

Try to get glaive prime 

try to get the missing mods that I dont care at all?

be a merchand (trader for plats...)

[Hanzo29]

I guess only drastic reduction in platinum purchases will wake up DE. Recent epic feats:

 

hmm an organized boycott to try and drive the point home

[--collstro--]

hmm an organized boycott to try and drive the point home

 

I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that, but if people like Steve and Scott keep acknowledging problems like the Harvester's spawn and drop rates, which should be as simple to solve as changing a couple of values, and then laugh, and then do nothing about them; I don't see what other choice we have.

 

DE acknowledging your mistakes is great, but acknowledging your mistakes and laughing at your, now extremely aggravated player base, and doing nothing to fix your mistakes, only results in turning aggravation into outright disgust. No exaggeration. After watching Live Stream 20 and seeing how all but Rebecca laughed at our concerns and frustrations; I am flat out disgusted.

Edited January 13, 2014 by --collstro--

[FrothingLoins]

Have faith in Booben!

#Booben2014

 

Booben will deliver us from our concerns.

 

 

Seriously though. I've flat out quit Warframe until DE puts some meat into it. 200 hours and I'm done being lured in by "new content".

 

 

"TEEMO REINFORZMENTZ./1.1! YOU GET A WUBSTEP GUN?!"

Is all I see every time they announce a new weapon or warframe. Who cares about new weapons? It's still the exact same damn game just now your weapon goes pow pow pow instead of pew pew boom.

[Tartanu]

This letter is in no means speaking on behalf of all veteran players and not even all the veterans who I have been actively discussing these issues with over the past weeks. In time more of them will post their own letters outlying their concerns, but I assure you that many of the concerns listed below are shared by all.

 

 

Grind and Drop Rates

 

Beginning with Update 8 and the dojo resources, through the grind associated with obtaining the Burston Prime, (10 hours 50 minutes in my case,) and the yet too be obtained Detron, the grind in this game has increased to the point where even people such as myself who aren't opposed to grinding have already; or are very close to throwing in the towel. Your justification for encrypting the drop tables was that the codex would provide, in game what the data mined drop tables provided to players through third party websites. Sadly this is not the case.

 

The codex does not tell us which mods drop from which survival or defense  mission or from which tier or faction. Data mined information did. The codex does not tell us which void mission type and tier requires to be played to get each Prime component. Data mined information did. The codex does not provide drop rates for anything. Data mined information did.

 

We require that you do as you said you would and have the codex provide us with the same information that was previously available to us. This way we can determine by the drop rates whether or not the item(s) we seek are worth the grind involved, and would permit the player base to give you feedback if it overwhelmingly believes the drop rates are too low. If you instist on maintaining that this game is still in Beta after you have over 4.5 million user accounts on PC alone, and have inked contracts with Sony, then treat us like Beta testers and give us enough information so we can give you informed feedback.

 

Haha, you think they gave a S#&$ about us when they encrypted drop tables after formagate?  Time to smell the coffee and wave goodbye to the ship that sailed half a year ago.

 

The moment I could no longer rely on the wiki to navigate this slot machine masquerading as a game, I struck camp and never looked back.  Many of us are much happier this way.

Edited January 13, 2014 by niekaa

[Tartanu]

+1 Agreed. Let's hope DE reads this and gives us a proper set of answers instead of the usual "soon tm"

 

 

You have my +1 for this post i hope DE start listening to their veteran players most of them have lived trough the agony certain grinding of a certain item

 

 

There's a lot of upvotes going around in here so I'll post something too in the hopes of getting some!!

 

 

This is good feedback on the game that needs to be read by somebody at DE, and I'm sure it will be.  The main point I agree with is that us, the players, need more information from DE.  This IS a beta game after-all, and we are supposed to be testing it out, but if we don't know what it's SUPPOSED to be like, how are we supposed to tell you what's wrong?  Tell us about the events ahead of time, tell us how you envision the different weapons and frames being used so we can tell you if it fits that role. 

A year on, the same old crap:

 

"They will listen! They gotta"

"It's a beta! Give em a chance!"

 

I'm going to let you in on a little secret.  WarFarm will be in "open beta" forever and ever (even though it's released for PS4) because it's a perpetually convenient excuse to deflect criticism from its glaring faults and to give gullible lemmings false hope that things could be fixed for the future.  "Hey, it sucks now, but they could change it!  Don't you know that the game is a work in progress?  ♫ I've got hiiiiigh hopes, I've got hiiiiigh hopes. ♫"

Edited January 13, 2014 by niekaa

[derclaw]

I wonder if we will keep this thread up for two weeks - will we get into next livestream?

[Tartanu]

I wonder if we will keep this thread up for two weeks - will we get into next livestream?

 

"We will look into it™ Soon™"

[(PSN)octus]

I wonder if we will keep this thread up for two weeks - will we get into next livestream?

no harm in trying.

[se05239]

no harm in trying.

 

This is the truth.

[derclaw]

"We will look into it™ Soon™"

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/8681-Early-Access?utm_source=latest&utm_medium=index_carousel&utm_campaign=all

So relevant, it hurst.....

[spacedkadet]

Is it wrong that I am more looking forward to all the bugs and mistakes that update 12 will bring rather than what the update adds? Its funny when we get a big update, it takes them a good week or so to make the game playable again!

 

oh and u12 / ls 21 are both "right around the corner"

Edited January 13, 2014 by spacedkadet

[Choggo]

+1 to the OP, I have to agree with all the issues noted

 

I think a lot of their ideas always have good intentions, but typically not well thought out, the Stalker and Harvester are two good examples, along with the Nav Coords, they are cool random encounters that spice up the game, however when you have rare spawns that have a rare chance at dropping a recipe, for some you created a cool random encounter, for others you created a long annoying grind.   

 

I personally would love to see a total overhaul to the mission system, and a shift from quantity to actual quality, this includes issues regarding Lore, I do not want to just see a giant book tossed in front of me that says, "here's the lore, read up."  Lore needs to be introduced and told through missions, every sector needs to have it's own tileset, every mission within a sector needs to have a defined purpose, lore behind who I'm capturing and what info is being obtained, or who this guy I'm risking my life to rescue, or how the Tenno haven't figured out they should bring their own air supplies on distraction missions? Everything leading up from the start on Mercury and ending on Pluto or into the void.  

 

This brings me to the special events, Instead of creating these longer grind heavy events that appear once and are gone forever, why not make them smaller and tie them into the hourly alerts.  Wouldn't it be cool if the cash only alerts stayed the same, but the ones that give items became small mini events, similar to all the events in the past, but just required 1 run to complete and you earn the reward?

 

You'd have lot more options to the alerts making them useful to the veteran players, but you could also introduce a huge amount of content that is currently unavailable to new players. 

[Ashvbn]

I hardly ever post but I feel a need to come out and support this. +1

[Althix]

As we are all aware collstro already made first, i am making another, and some more will follow soon i am sure.

 

In this letter i will explain my main concern and as well as point out smaller, point by point description.

 

Main concern:

My main concern about this game (above many other issues like grind, rng, bugs, overcomplicated damage system which, in fact, is not very good for pve) is lack of content to play.

 In my understanding in a pve game, content must be a priority. Because in pvp game, players compete against each other directly, when in pve game environment is a level by which to judge is this player is good, or what clan is better. In pve game challenge and goals must be set before players. This will bring sense to the gaming. Reason to play and strife for.

 

 For the last 9 months in this game and over 1400+ hours i can't find such environment. On a base of content to play, warframe is doing horribly. For the last 9 months the only "new" game mode that was made is survival, and even this mode have so many flaws that i can't call it a fully made mode. There is absolutely no content for high level play. Players are abusing Survivals and Endless Defenses only because they want to feel competition and put their skills and knowledge to a test. Players are making artificial difficulties for themselfs because game can not provide them with these on a basis of regular content.

 

 In current situation we have a lot of content to grind, like weapons, frames, modes - but all of it doesn't make sense in a long run. Because leveling R10 mod like heavy caliber will keep you "entertained" for a while, but in the end there is basically no real reason to have this mod, unless you want to participate in long ED or Survival runs.

 

 However, what to do in this game when you have it all? Nothing. EDs and Survivals are boring after few hundred runs and game have nothing else to offer. We don't have content to play. If to cut it short, this game literally offers only 30 hours of actual gameplay, after that you start grinding for something. But truth be told, you already have MK-1 Braton and it is a very viable weapon. It was such in 1.0 and it is such a weapon in 2.0.

 

Our huge arsenal of frames and weapons have no purpose, we don't have missions where usage of our 4-6 formas fully maxed weapons can be justified.

 

Is it so hard to make a raid mode that designed for high end players and can be done only by high end player in a team? You see this will keep your veterans occupied when new guys will have a goal to strife for. And then you release new mode and new weapons for it. Over and over again. Product must evolve. Stream becomes a river and the river flows into the sea.

 

As it now this game is in a stagnation phase, it's not a sea or river or even a stream. It's a swamp. And you, our beloved developer, continues to throw shiny stuff into this swamp that they have sunk.

 

Me as many other players invested a lot of time into this game, in hope to see it evolve. So you could use potential this product have to make a decent, or even good or great pve game. But as it now, after 9 months all i can see is a wasted time and utter stagnation.

 

I understand that you, our dearest DE, want to bring solar system to a decent view, like "unique" bosses, planet based tile sets. All of it is fine. But you see, but doing that you completely neglect the fact that your game is actually empty. It's boring, repetitive and have no goal or challenge. And without that, your product as pve game will never have healthy community that will evolve with the game, to make it better and bigger for everyone.

 

And, as promised, list of smaller concerns:

 

- Powers. Powers of the warframes provide too much of the edge. They provide ultimate advantage and playing too greater role in this game. Instead of being supportive abilities which give boost, respite or any other buff/debuff. Powers give player ultimate advantage which makes any new enemies and/or ai improvements meaningless. Current system do not cultivate skill in the game, because you are just using 1-2 powers for maximum effect. Very unhealthy system. It's boring. Another effect of this, all new frames will have no use in the game, simply because all vital positions are already filled with frames that just better at any possible niche. Prime example is of course Oberon.

 

- Damage system. Current damage system, 2.0, is the worst thing happened with the game so far. 2.0 do not provide us with variety, it's sharing the same algorithm of building a weapon with 1.0 (meaning you are still using all damage builds, which are always consist of the very same direct damage mods + some elementals and/or crit/status mods). 2.0 was called to solve armor scaling problem, in fact it only made it worse. System is way too complicated (too many types of protection for a mob, it's makes little sense), when you could use simpier solution with providing a variety of builds. like saving 2-3 mod slots for mods like fast hands for example. We still have only 3-4% of weapons viable for high level play, the rest of arsenal are still a mastery only weapons.

 Issue with polarity. Solution to this should have been added to a game with 2.0, not after couple of months, or somewhere "soon".

 

- Codex. You see when you encrypted your data you made a statement of some sort. As it now you can't trust us with leaving this data open, and we can't trust you because you know... 0.67%. And so you have introduced codex as a solution. However Warframe is a grind game, and such information like what and where drops is vital. If you locking your data, you must provide such information on ingame basis as soon as possible. You are leaving us in the dark. As it now your codex is useless. I guess it will be fixed in next couple of weeks or months, but this is not good enough. You have failed in this DE. This aspect of the game in given circumstances should've been a priority. But it's not.

 

- Grind. Unfortunatelly grind in Warframe is not a part of the game, it is a game. Making hundred runs for certain frame or a weapon is not healthy. I understand that your grind wall is called to extend play time for a player, because game don't have any content to play. But not to that extent. 120 runs for Mag Prime, 147 runs for Ember Prime, 52 runs for Seer, Detron(? i don't even bother). It's not normal. It's a highway straight to burnout for your players.

 

- Bugs. Cryopod platform on grineer asteroid base tile set on mobile defense mode. Should i say more? Some bugs have 5-6 months old stamps. It's not normal. It speaks about quality of your work.

 

Well i guess this is it.

 

This behaviour must not continue. Feel the burning stare of my hamster and change your ways. © you know who.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Althix

[Vargras]

Got to the part where you said powers were too powerful, stopped reading. I'm sorry but most powers do not scale at all into end-game content (you know, the same high level play you talked about yourself?). To say that they're too strong is hilarious.

[Althix]

blessing. bastille. snowglobe. stomp. chaos. radial disarm. sonar. shield polarize.