An Open Letter To De From Your Veterans (The megathread)

[Althix]

it's not greed. it's a healthy position for the company that wants to survive and prosper.

we, as clients, free to choose. to consume the same product over and over again, or to move to another company that offers us a better deal.

as player base, as clients, we do not have any leverage in order to effect DE in one way or another. We do not own this game, we can not tell developer to how he must make this game. we are simply in no position to do that in any possible way, but one.

The only way how and when changes could happen, is when company will start to lose enough money from a product they offer. Because let say you are ingame now, you are wasting traffic of DE simply by using chat. Corporate rate on the internet is not cheap, i can asure you in that because this is one of services my company provide. When a company begin to lose money, they either move to another product or service, or they upgrade current one to fit the needs of a client. That's it.

So it's not greed, it's just common sense.

@Vandoore, you see if i lose a client. It's gonna be a blow. Because i don't have much of them, but i have too much competition in a given sector of the market.
DE on the other hand can afford to lose some clients, like these 500 upvotes on the first page. Even if player base is not limitless, it's still huge. And truth be told game as it now looks great for a new guy. Great enough to spare 5-10$ at very least.

Besides, even if this thread may not be pleasant for a developer, they still have PR professional to deal with such insurrection.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Althix

[helix.hex]

DE should be somewhat proud of their achievement but, they have not been true to their vision(not their fault.) i have had to come to terms of what they have done to the game making my own for a side hobby in blender and i had to come to realize when you are making something you love it is fun and you get inspired quick but.

 

now lets look at what warframe was supposed to be; dark sector. back when they were making it they were pretty much told to "F off" with the original idea (psychic wounds anyone?) as developers they must have been like dogs chasing a car; never to get it.

 

well, they got the car now, and they dont know what to do with it. hell! i will go so far as to say they are probably scare ****less subconsciousness-wise cause noone said "no" to anything and they are trying to figure out how to keep their dream, they "child" from dying from inexperience with mmorpgs especially FTP.

 

i cosign this letter and give my blessing to DE and hope they realize that even though their bosses are not holding them to the gun(something they are use to with dead lines.) that we are. not for money but out of love for them and warframe. 

[General_Krull]

OK then the purpose of this thread and or comment that I am responding to is D.O.A. then by your conversation points? Greed is absolute and is the only motivation? I guess time will tell who is correct in this matter. If you are correct in your assumption that this particular company lacks compassion for it's consumer (which I doubt) then welcome to the bleakness which is the future of Warframe congratulations you win? However if I am correct and patience and faith pan out... your just plain welcome. Also I venture the quandry: if as a game developer I were to get a majority of complaints and degrading input from my veteran community despite my best efforts (slow as they may be)  and that I have new players that feverishly support the project you tell me who I should cater to first in order to keep my business flourishing?

I think it's pretty annoying to hear these people who started month or two ago tell veterans to be patient. We HAVE been patient, some of us have been around for over a year, I have been here since last june. The complaints have NOT changed, the game has NOT changed. Same issues plague this game now as they did last august. 

 

And catering to new players only is extremely short sighted. You will eventually run out of new people because "bitter" veterans keep piling up and telling their friends about it, which results in fewer and fewer new players. Best way to keep business flourishing is to cater to both, having functional and interesting end game is not away from new players because if they stick they will experience it eventually, just like functional and interesting early game isn't away from veterans.

 

And for god's sake, grind and rng is not gameplay or content, you didn't say it but some people do. 

[helix.hex]

And for god's sake, grind and rng is not gameplay or content, you didn't say it but some people do. 

 

rng is hell with insanity i know: been farming for ember prime chasis. care to guess how many ember prime bps i found this time?

[General_Krull]

rng is hell with insanity i know: been farming for ember prime chasis. care to guess how many ember prime bps i found this time?

None? Or multiple of the part you already had.

[Nkomo-Sama]

I think it's pretty annoying to hear these people who started month or two ago tell veterans to be patient. We HAVE been patient, some of us have been around for over a year, I have been here since last june. The complaints have NOT changed, the game has NOT changed. Same issues plague this game now as they did last august. 

 

And catering to new players only is extremely short sighted. You will eventually run out of new people because "bitter" veterans keep piling up and telling their friends about it, which results in fewer and fewer new players. Best way to keep business flourishing is to cater to both, having functional and interesting end game is not away from new players because if they stick they will experience it eventually, just like functional and interesting early game isn't away from veterans.

 

And for god's sake, grind and rng is not gameplay or content, you didn't say it but some people do. 

Closed beta started Oct. 2012 open beta March 2013  I started June 6th. I guess slightly more than a month or two ago? I wasn't day one but I have invested enough time and money to consider myself an experienced player (900+ hrs? I work at home.). My opinion and my perspective is a valid one, as valid as any other person and I find it interesting that not only will you embrace a negative disposition but you will promote it to the extent of arguing against a positive remark. I get it. Make enough noise and try and deter enough business and you hope you will affect change. I say I would rather support and encourage change and try and promote a productive atmosphere in the community than a volatile one. Dude that gun isn't big enough yet. Learn to pick your battles.There is nothing wrong with holding someone accountable but BE REASONABLE. Yes I agree that this game requires ALOT of work to be where WE (including DE) want it to be.  (see this) I also think that this takes TIME I venture if DE didn't have to keep putting out these community fires with new content every 5 seconds to try and engage the masses and gather funding.. (see-->) AND MONEY to accomplish and they are releasing content at a feverish pace partly due to all the negative feed back..  We kinda want filet mignon at mcdonalds speed on a corner stores budget = Tough times. YOu ever heard of a Mc Filet mignon? Im just saying the community funded game has been alive since October 2012, A little over ONE year and hey, Super Mega  Ultra Veteran  (dude you started MAY 31st  A FULL 6 DAYS BEFORE ME) I SAY GIVE THEM A FREAKIN MINUTE. THIS GAME HAS GROWN BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS SINCE WE STARTED ( me and you) & closed beta??!? fuggetaboutit I saw the youtube videos...I say they are working at a decent pace given what it takes to implement these grand demands and aspirations... and that we (you mostly) are in for a pleasant surprise this year. Now if I have to eat crow come December well so be it until then I'm riding till the wheels fall off! I know why I joined this game and this community and why I remain. I am going to support this project one way or another until DE proves me wrong. At that time I will owe everyone a sincere apology. THink about it though wouldn't it be AWESOME if I was right? The game needs major work to be perfect. I just happen to believe that DE is willing and able to do that work given some time. You ALL can have the last words I'm done.

[Virtus_Dei_Est]

Closed beta started Oct. 2012 open beta March 2013  I started June 6th. I guess slightly more than a month or two ago? I wasn't day one but I have invested enough time and money to consider myself an experienced player (900+ hrs? I work at home.). My opinion and my perspective is a valid one, as valid as any other person and I find it interesting that not only will you embrace a negative disposition but you will promote it to the extent of arguing against a positive remark. I get it. Make enough noise and try and deter enough business and you hope you will affect change. I say I would rather support and encourage change and try and promote a productive atmosphere in the community than a volatile one. Dude that gun isn't big enough yet. Learn to pick your battles.There is nothing wrong with holding someone accountable but BE REASONABLE. Yes I agree that this game requires ALOT of work to be where WE (including DE) want it to be.  (see this) I also think that this takes TIME I venture if DE didn't have to keep putting out these community fires with new content every 5 seconds to try and engage the masses and gather funding.. (see-->) AND MONEY to accomplish and they are releasing content at a feverish pace partly due to all the negative feed back..  We kinda want filet mignon at mcdonalds speed on a corner stores budget = Tough times. YOu ever heard of a Mc Filet mignon? Im just saying the community funded game has been alive since October 2012, A little over ONE year and hey, Super Mega  Ultra Veteran  (dude you started MAY 31st  A FULL 6 DAYS BEFORE ME) I SAY GIVE THEM A FREAKIN MINUTE. THIS GAME HAS GROWN BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS SINCE WE STARTED ( me and you) & closed beta??!? fuggetaboutit I saw the youtube videos...I say they are working at a decent pace given what it takes to implement these grand demands and aspirations... and that we (you mostly) are in for a pleasant surprise this year. Now if I have to eat crow come December well so be it until then I'm riding till the wheels fall off! I know why I joined this game and this community and why I remain. I am going to support this project one way or another until DE proves me wrong. At that time I will owe everyone a sincere apology. THink about it though wouldn't it be AWESOME if I was right? The game needs major work to be perfect. I just happen to believe that DE is willing and able to do that work given some time. You ALL can have the last words I'm done.

 

i was going to answer, but is no sense, there is so many post about this, why bother...

 

to make it quick, is about priorities.

 

we all love a recycled / polished boss? yes, how much time until it gets old? what, 15 minutes?

 

nothing "new" has been around since several updates (i dont count a frame and a weapon as "content" sorry, only a distraction to gain some time)

 

oh! damage 2.0 / yeah, DE fixing what they broke, thanks, should i throw money to my monitor? tell me what do you expect us to do.

 

enough with all this debate, we still are here as a community, warframe is DE dream project, time will tell what happens, as for me i am not optimistic. 

[SpFinX]

i was going to answer, but is no sense, there is so many post about this, why bother...

 

to make it quick, is about priorities.

 

we all love a recycled / polished boss? yes, how much time until it gets old? what, 15 minutes?

 

nothing "new" has been around since several updates (i dont count a frame and a weapon as "content" sorry, only a distraction to gain some time)

 

oh! damage 2.0 / yeah, DE fixing what they broke, thanks, should i throw money to my monitor? tell me what do you expect us to do.

 

enough with all this debate, we still are here as a community, warframe is DE dream project, time will tell what happens, as for me i am not optimistic. 

Damn, you took words out of my mouth. Nothing in the core gameplay had changed really since U6. New tilesets, new weapons and frames. New mods. Mods 2.0 that turned out into something punishing diversity and encouraging farm. Needlessly complicated new Damage system (with one good thing - removal of armor from non-armored targets and reduced, but still existing armor scaling). Survival - wow, it took so long to design it? Or maybe you'd tell me that it's a totally new idea that never existed before? Or maybe you think that trading was a fresh new idea (damn, they haven't even given us AH yet. Manual trading is boring).

 

We talk about game core here. Quite a rotten one, you know. DE is sticking new appealing wallpapers on top of it, but it's a dead end.

 

There is an unlogical experience system that makes low-level players suffer from high-levels that run in front of them killing everything.

 

There is unlogical system of player powers scaling vs enemy scaling that makes nuker frames gods int the beginning and useless weapon placeholders in the end.

 

There is unlogical system of player damage/survivability scaling vs enemy scaling that makes a person without right mods run to the forum to complain about too strong enemies and a person with them maxed will complain about game being too easy and boring.

 

There are lots of weak enemies that encourage usage of AoE and high RoF inaccurate weapons instead of skillful guns like semi-auto and burst rifles. That's OK for Diablo. That's ok for browser farming RPG. But it's damn NOT OK for a TPS. I could take a Global Agenda as a perfect example - enemies are small in numbers, but every single one is really dangerous. Encountering a group in a solo play requires tactical decisions, and if you are wrong, you are dead. Sniping is actually useful, and i'm talking NOT only about boss encounters.

 

And there is hell lot of useless weapons. They all serve only purpose in taking your time to level them.

 

And you know what? Thing got only worse (except for armor, kay XD)

 

Edit: Awww, how could i forget about uncompensated RNG that leaves you witout ANY guaranties that you'll get what you want? That my favourite Warframe flaw. Unimaginabe in any serious game project. You want to use RNG? Fine, just ton't forget to compensate it's weak points. A lot of ways to do that were both implemented in other games and proven to be effective - trading, undesired items -> tokens -> desired item, etc.

Edited January 18, 2014 by SpFinX

[TangoSierra]

Yes.

[nightrunner_ks]

Well I submit that you may very well underestimate the integrity of DE_ Steve and the gang. Alas we shall see. I'm betting on the gang.

 

DESteve has disappointed before, he'll do it again, mark my words.

[morgo77]

looks like you know what you are talking about very well put 

[Volume]

Agreed 100%.

 

I might not have any prominence in these parts but I have been playing since January of last year, and while some things have improved a lot (tileset/weapon/warframe variety for example), many real important issues have gone unaddressed (such as core mechanics, which I felt were at their pinnacle when I had unranked weapons in Mercury)

Edited January 19, 2014 by Volume

[TangoZulu57]

Well said and to the point. 

There needs to be some attention to what has been made before making more to pile on top of it.  IF DE really wants to stay in business they need to learn to really listen to the player base that pays their way.  Killing the Golden Goose never does anyone any good, and no one profits when the money stops flowing.  Setup a department to dream up the new tile sets, campaigns, Warframe and etcetera.   That way the current bugs and glitches could be resolved before more content and new coding was added burying them. 

But as with all video games, it is easier to Band-Aid the problems than to truly fix them. 

So in a year or so, this game too shall pass. 

I hope that I am wrong.

 

TangoZulu57 (older than dirt)

[BETAOPTICS]

Ok so several days ago I spoke about making my own version out of this.

 -----

An Open Letter To DE From Your Veterans #204930

Hi there Tenno!
I will let you know that I came to Waframe somewhere during Update 6.8 in late March, early April in 2013 and been here ever since. Loving the game with passion and I'm here to talk about more of the future of Warframe and where I hope it to go and some flaws DE still needs to improve on.
I shall warn you that my post is a long one and I try to tackle my thoughts about several things that have been very touchy and noteworthy subjects in forums since I have been here. This is a very long post so I will put spoiler in front of it and a summary in the end for everyone who are not interested or don't have the time to read my Book of Eli Book of Warframe.

Providing feedback, forum discussion and communication.

So past months we have seen multiple threads talking about crucial gameplay issues and how to approach them with varying results but with a very large variety of options that without a doubt, are mostly better ways to approach them than the current ones are. When we see these suggestion and discussion ongoing from day to day forum activity with little to no action or vague responses, no wonder people get more and more frustrated that why aren't these issues being addressed.

I can not understand the fact that we are asked to provide feedback about the game but when we do so, we barely are being listened to. It is as if they just want us to keep hopeful and active that way so we stay with the game in hopes things will change and at times they do change, but at least posts aren't being addressed enough times properly or clearly enough to satisfy the players active in the forums.

A suggestion I submitted and it seems, many have before is to add a mark for DE employees and maybe community moderators that when they have visited a topic and presumably read it, they would leave a sign to the thread at hand to show that this thread has been read. It would go a long way from us just posting and repeating the same topics while being left alone in the dark. In addition there should be a weekly or monthly post about the most discussed or hot topic section that DE answers their own thoughts about the subject in matter but I'm hoping that at least occasionally the answers would not be " we talk about it " and more like " this has been addressed, here is my opinions about it, will see if we can do anything similar to this. " - think about how much better this would sound like, even if they would sometimes have to say that they doubt the system would work. It is clear that their communication skills still need some work on, after all honesty is always better in the end.

Gameplay

Now this is something that is quite frequently talked about in the forums, especially recently and it is easy to see that this is a major issue that is beginning to drag the games lifetime span down and it is beginning to set the mood of the forums and the game itself. Some may ask how even some new players start out frustrated or more negative towards the game than they were before. Well it is because the mood of the average and especially the pillars A.K.A veterans feel worn out by the monotonous gameplay effect and more and more people join to agree with them which in turn, sets the forums and overall mood of the game more negative, frustrated and heavy so this is a crucial aspect of the game that has to be addressed .

Now fortunate for us, we got somewhat decent answers recently and knowing what DE is up to, it seems they are trying to flesh out the content a lot more from what we have now. I for one, have been wanting real meaning and storyline for a long time since events only bring so little to the game and meaning to what we do. I know there will be the Caption Vor's prize up coming soon™ so I'm in hopes of it finally being a first step to a solution many of us want and even need to be honest. I liked the system of Halo 4 where there was a chapter release every week and you would need to do certain missions or challenges to get more story out of it and it had multiple season that followed and progressed the story to us. Something similar would indeed be a worthy addition here, even if the format would be a bit different.

Then there is the actual gameplay where we only grind to grind to grind more. This is not a healthy mechanic for the game. It is true that it gives the game a bigger lifespan and makes gamers spent more time for the game and albeit it is acceptable to certain extent, this game has had a over reliance of that mechanic which in turn, shows in a form of a burn-out and frustration for our beloved game. I think that there needs to be other ways to tackle gameplay and that story I earlier talked about would do a lot good in this respective area. There even used to be a time where grinding was treated to be the worst possible band-aid aspect for the game and it was almost a swear word in gaming industry. Since then it has become a bit more accepted but a good game does rely on grinding and RNG as little as possible. We should come to play this game because we love the game, not because the systems " forces " us to do so.

I would also like to point out that while progressive weapon tier system might sound good on paper, it will not work for a game like this because first of all, it will narrow down a lot of weapons and people always want to be the strongest. Negating content in a form of weapons, mod- or power viability is not going to be a good thing for this game, neither will it work. The reason being people will easily get information about the game and ask for help from others on how to min/maxing everything they can, from mods to weapons so a lot of that excitement of experimentation of new weapons and mod builds is destroyed right of the bat and many skip tiers of weapons and content because the game is rewarding players from effectiveness over experimenting.

It has a lot to do with mod and gun balance and making guns like MK1-Braton useless is not a good idea because you want the players feel satisfied all the times and have variation with their weapons of choice, it is refreshing but with the weapon power tiers, this will be negated and you are only good by using a few actually decent weapons instead of a whole variety of them. Yes the system will make some people to spent platinum to skip some progression and in turn, creating revenue for the game but wouldn't making all weapons good make more revenue in the long run anyways. There will of course always be better weapons than others but decrease the power gab significantly so.

The last part of this long section is about the hollowness of the actual combat and gameplay aspects of the game. To be honest, the feel of the game is good but there are major weak parts and aspects of the game that need further development. Damage 2.0 was the first step to this and while I personally still find the system a bit flawed, in my opinion it was the step to right direction. It did not solve my most wanted issue which is pure DPS weapon builds instead of utility but I admit it that solving that issue is nowhere an easy task but regardless of this, it needs to be developed a bit further. Give meaning to use some of the mods we have, utility especially for guns and Warframes. Gladly we get a new improved melee system so I'm looking very much into that and I have high hopes it works out. The last thing we still need is a meaning to do stealth and make the combat more meatier instead of how hollow it now feels, especially that melee combat but that is what I hope melee 2.0 will solve.

Player VS. Player

Now to be honest, I don't like the idea of PvP. in this game at all. It never should have been a thing in my opinion but this is mainly because it will take development time out of the main focus of the game, PvE. which in my opinion is the single greatest thing about this game. No emphasis on PvP. sort of game. Now Nugget_ changed my views about that a bit, while I personally have no interest for PvP. in this game, it could easily be a thing in this game as long as fills few criteria he mentioned.

First, PvP. should never be main focus of the game or hinder the development of PvE. at all, if people want PvP. and  DE decides it has to come then sure but it needs a separate team to develop it. Secondly no rewards! He/she pointed out that the PvP. genre is spoiled with progression system and that in good old times we played PvE. and PvP. games not because we wanted to progress and get new shiny things, but because it was fun, because we wanted to play those modes for the sake of having a good time, having fun.

Now honestly, this is pretty convincing in my opinion and sounds fair for both sides. PvP. lovers get more out of the game and PvE. focus will stay here and the game is most purely about PvE. gaming. I see no harm other than maybe little toxicity with a minor group of players that PvP. will create as long as the PvP. implementation will be created within the two mentioned criteria.

The good, the bad and the RNG

So RNG. Where do I start? There has been so much talk about this subject and I think it is one of the most if not the most hated aspect of the game. It is flawed, it worns out people and if left alone like this, it will without a doubt, screw up the game. When I first started talking about this issue, I admit it that I personally thought that the issue is Void exclusive only but within a couple of weeks I have taken a closer look at how the average, normal gameplay works out for the player and I came into the conclusion that this is the part where RNG truly sucks for any average and below players experience.

Damage mods are very rare and so are elemental ones. Vitality and redirection are gladly fairly common but other crucial mods such as flow or streamline are very rare and it seems I only see fusion cores being dropped. Now don't get me wrong, I love fusion cores because in the end, they are better at fusing but if I were a newer player, I would have hard times contributing to the team because I do nothing with the fusion cores if I don't have mods worthy enough to spend them on.

This then results many players buying the mods with platinum out of the start which is not healthy for gameplay, the game is too hard without these mods and too easy early on if you have these mods. Better accessibility for this mods is definitely needed. Then there are the useless mods and guns and RNG walls such as in Detron that are all just crippling player progression and unnecessarily dragging them down. These mods and aspects of the game need to be removed or made as additional occasional drops or anything, but leaving them like this, hindering the player progression so badly is not a good thing. Oh and that ugly Detron thing? Yeah, I'm not even going to talk about it other than it needs solutions and the community is still waiting for DE to something about it, rather than just saying they should do something about it.

Codex and encryption

Now this is every conspiracy theorists favorite subject. The encryption was truly shady business for many of us and we can't help but wonder what the true intentions of this action was. Officially it was about protecting the customers and their product from hackers but in reality many suspect this was actually as a result of them accidentally screwing up and then getting caught from it. Whether or not this was for marketing reason, makes little to no sense because even now, every event has some cheaters, hackers or exploiters and dataminers rarely if not at all cheated and encrypting them makes little to no sense if was just because they made a mistake because we are all humans, humans make mistakes, it is what makes us human.

Dataminers brought up a lot of useful information and it did a lot for the community to lighten the burdens of grinding and RNG and it made giving more proper, precise and effective feedback. Whether or not that was good move to encrypt them, we got an answer, the codex. Now in theory this sounded nice and it actually is a nice feature in the game itself. It is like a gallery and a information hub for the players to get information off of. The problem is that it gives too little information for the players compared to what the datamining used to give us. We can no longer see if drop rates are messed up and I don't think we will ever be able to prove them again. Let us help you to help us DE. I know that you might not be fund of decrypting the information again but what do you honestly have to lose here? You could gain a lot with a little risk in my opinion.

The Codex itself in the game is not that great. You need to buy this camera which is wonky and due to the clustered enemies, fast paced gameplay, the slowness of the came scanning, the amounts of scans needend and information given and the poor stealth mechanics ensure that this feature as of now is not working all that well.

You either need to go solo to missions which in higher level missions is a hard thing to do and when some enemies are only in those higher level enemies, they become a chore to scan and most wont even bother since we can always get the information from outside anyways, not to even speak about Stalker or Harvester scans. Now they either need to improve how it works in the game or give players a passive way to obtain that information in game, such as making separate scan robots, much like the drones Extractors we have now but they only scan and are much cheaper to build.

Summary

- Communication across all the boards need to be improved, no more meaningless responses and secrecy.
- Gameplay needs to be meatier, it needs more flesh around it's bones. We need more and better mechanics to the game and less grinding!
- PvP. in my opinion can be here as long as it does not hinder PvE. by any means and no rewards, pure fun should be reason enough to go there.
- RNG has to be worked on. if it will be kept like this, I can't see this game being able to live that long due to pollution of the drops, we need solution.
- Codex needs vastly improved upon and preferable we need a way to help DE with the former datamined information codex can't provide.

I think that is it. That was all the burden I had in mind and wanted to talk about. You might not agree what I said but this is how I felt about these things. Where ever you stand from, I hope you understand and respect my opinions and I will thank everyone who had the time and interest in reading this very long post and read me ranting about things I feel important to. I'll let you know that this is also most likely my ultimate testament for now for Warframe. I'm not leaving but this is all I have to say about the game for now.

EDIT: I will be adding a bit more later on, such as new player and average player experience, design council, voting on forums and other subjects but for now this is just a note here.

Edited January 19, 2014 by BETAOPTICS

[S5alad]

I uninstalled the game.  $500+ in and over 2000 hours played.

 

Grindframe has excellent game mechanics: parkour, a wealth of abilities that manipulate the physics of the game like no other. With combat much like Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer and a fast pace, it rewards the player with new abilities. a variety of new and unique weaponry, and ever increasing power. Okay that's the good.

There is no content. There is no lore. No storyline. No cinematics. No reading. The game doesn't even tell you anything about how to acquire gear or new frames, the only way to find that out is in the user-created wiki page. DE actively attempts to encrypt drop rates to ensure players are left in the dark, guessing blindly at who drops what and where to get who. They do not communicate with the player base; they think two live streams a week qualify as communication, but they do nothing but play a game and when they run into the multiple bugs in the game, they act surprised, as if it's a rare occurance. Well, one thing is for sure, encountering game breaking bugs is not uncommon.

The drop rates are terribly rigged to seem nearly impossible, urging players into a pay-to-win mindset to offset the terrible grind. I spent over 10 hours farming for one part. Sucks to be me right? Yeah, I guess so. The drop rates are important though, because to advance in this game, via Mastery, you have to level new weapons and frames, and you don't get experience, or affinity, towards your Mastery rank by leveling the same weapon twice; you HAVE to always be on the hunt for new weapons and frames to progress.

Then there's the pay to win element, and it gets you ♥♥♥♥, and by ♥♥♥♥, I mean even if you're hundreds of dollars invested, you will still be dealt with disdainfully by DE's staff and moderators will still single you out and censor you in the forums. They promised Founders($250 Founders package) increased voice on the forums, that Founders would help the development of the game, what they did was let them participate in a few polls here or there.

This game hides behind a beta tag, but they've made over $70,000,000 USD in their first year. They take your money like any MMO would, but the development of the game is done so poorly, with so many bugs, that if they didn't call it a, "beta," it would literally be one of the worst official releases ever. The management at Digital Extremes is extremely profit oriented, to the point of stifling actual content and lore development because of the pressure to release new tile sets and new frames and weapons, even when they're not fully polished and full of bugs still. The drop rates are deliberately hijacked to encourage frustrated players to drop cash to get past the inconvenience. The manager, Steve Sinclair, of the Warframe project is only manager because he kissed up for years at DE, not because of any innovative talent or ingenuity at leading a team.

This is literally the most disappointing game of the year. It's brilliant, but the wasted potential is heart breaking. You'll fall in love with it and then absolutely hate it.

If you're lucky, you won't bother with it to begin with, or you'll quit before you're hooked. If you're caught up in the grind, one weapon after another, good luck...

[Scrybatog]

 Ignore that part. Focus on the feedback. 

Its just that falsely claiming his opinion encompasses all veterans feels rapey to me. I am a founder, but my roommate is a Veteran from closed beta, and he doesn't share half of the same opinions as the OP. Its like posting a thread saying "A letter from your terminal cancer players" It psychologically attempts to draw on the misconception everyone that has invested time in their game has OP's opinion, and maliciously tugs on heartstrings which I find more wrong than any flame post I have ever read. This is not "from all your veterans" but "from a single veteran" with a splotching of agree's from veterans and non veterans alike, with many disagree's in the same fashion.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Scrybatog

[Blatantfool]

Its just that falsely claiming his opinion encompasses all veterans feels rapey to me. I am a founder, but my roommate is a Veteran from closed beta, and he doesn't share half of the same opinions as the OP. Its like posting a thread saying "A letter from your terminal cancer players" It psychologically attempts to draw on the misconception everyone that has invested time in their game has OP's opinion, and maliciously tugs on heartstrings which I find more wrong than any flame post I have ever read. This is not "from all your veterans" but "from a single veteran" with a splotching of agree's from veterans and non veterans alike, with many disagree's in the same fashion.

 

 Yeah. I get what you mean. My opinion is pretty close to yours.

 

 However I've chosen to simply ignore that and focus on what people are saying in the thread. There is good to be found in what is being said. I'd prefer to think about that.

[Histori]

Its just that falsely claiming his opinion encompasses all veterans feels rapey to me. I am a founder, but my roommate is a Veteran from closed beta, and he doesn't share half of the same opinions as the OP. Its like posting a thread saying "A letter from your terminal cancer players" It psychologically attempts to draw on the misconception everyone that has invested time in their game has OP's opinion, and maliciously tugs on heartstrings which I find more wrong than any flame post I have ever read. This is not "from all your veterans" but "from a single veteran" with a splotching of agree's from veterans and non veterans alike, with many disagree's in the same fashion.

What yours roommate who is like you said a veteran can't post he's own post ?

I really dunno who much time did you played or he , but the game is become boring and this what DE is doing atm or what they started it's not fun it's fun only for them cus they laugh to players, i'm so sorry about you but you obviously can't open your eyes and see what is really going on and there's to much people like you.

Pls don't find this like a insult, this is just mine opinion.

[RPilcrow]

Its just that falsely claiming his opinion encompasses all veterans feels rapey to me. I am a founder, but my roommate is a Veteran from closed beta, and he doesn't share half of the same opinions as the OP. Its like posting a thread saying "A letter from your terminal cancer players" It psychologically attempts to draw on the misconception everyone that has invested time in their game has OP's opinion, and maliciously tugs on heartstrings which I find more wrong than any flame post I have ever read. This is not "from all your veterans" but "from a single veteran" with a splotching of agree's from veterans and non veterans alike, with many disagree's in the same fashion.

 

it's like you didn't even read the first line of his post, and responded to the title;

 

This letter is in no means speaking on behalf of all veteran players and not even all the veterans who I have been actively discussing these issues with over the past weeks. In time more of them will post their own letters outlying their concerns, but I assure you that many of the concerns listed below are shared by all.

 

let's not forget the long list of names at the bottom of the post

actually, i wouldn't mind my name being added to it; i've been playing since ~ the latter half of closed beta, and have been running the small clan 'maximum comfort'.

 

 

also

 

Its just that falsely claiming his opinion encompasses all veterans feels rapey to me

 

i want tumblr to leave and i want it to leave now

comparing somebody speaking on behalf of a group to rape of all things is goddamn abhorrent and you should feel ashamed for even saying that

if anybody's 'maliciously tugging on heartstrings' here, it's you

Edited January 19, 2014 by RPilcrow

[Bakercompany86]

Its just that falsely claiming his opinion encompasses all veterans feels rapey to me. I am a founder, but my roommate is a Veteran from closed beta, and he doesn't share half of the same opinions as the OP. Its like posting a thread saying "A letter from your terminal cancer players" It psychologically attempts to draw on the misconception everyone that has invested time in their game has OP's opinion, and maliciously tugs on heartstrings which I find more wrong than any flame post I have ever read. This is not "from all your veterans" but "from a single veteran" with a splotching of agree's from veterans and non veterans alike, with many disagree's in the same fashion.

 

I'd be curious to hear what your roommate disagrees with in the OP.  The OP has a lot of support from the community.

[bejuizb]

And once again, the discussion of putting "Veterans" and "from all veterans" begins. 

 

As said by Blatant and myself several times, focus on the finer points. If someone disagrees with -collstro-, feel free to make it known, but provide some points and valid arguments for us to take it seriously. If you plan to make a point, be prepared to defend it without resorting to flaming.

[Mugiwara_Kaizoku]

+1

[skynexus]

looks like i have to point something out for all of you that are talking about this vet/ non vet thing and that is you are hurting this thread and are only piling it up with garbage yes..... useless and non constructive post that doesn't help anyone except your own pride so i will not argue debate or discuss on this topic because this is not the proper thread for this and all you are doing is putting useless post that is most likely unwanted and non productive so hopefully this ends here and you guys will stop and think and do what is right and further in progress and not bring it down to a senseless debate 

[helix.hex]

None? Or multiple of the part you already had.

 none at all

[General_Krull]

 none at all

sounds about right