An Open Letter To De From Your Veterans (The megathread)

[NIL0S]

(...) Please wait until Q&A has had adequate time to test (...)

There is no QA. We *are* the QA.

And some of us pay for the privilege, too. That's my feeling after seeing DE majorly and regularly muck up update after update, i'm not talking about bugs here, i'm talking about some of the brainfarts mentioned by OP. After 600 hours logged, "BUT IT'S BETAH" doesn't cut it anymore with convincing me to invest additional time or money into Warframe, the game seems to be going nowhere at all.

In the grand scale of things I guess my voice is rather insignificant, but I find myself agreeing with all points raised in the original post, sadly they are nothing new, either. The clan i'm Warlord of (Half Minute Ninja, a casual friendly Storm Clan) has become a complete ghost town; we used to have a plethora of very enthusiastic players (many actual paying customers, some of them founders), they have all lost interest and long since moved on to other games, the only regulars remaining are the few newbies who aren't burned out yet, and the game technically hasn't even released fully...

In conclusion:

Warframe simply has no player retention, and that's in big part due to DEs slash and burn design philosophy, plus the lack of any real substance, direction or depth to the game's core - be this in regards to mechanics or lore - no amount of shallow new toys, livestreams or grindy events is going to change that (at some point it all just loses meaning and therefore interest). And maybe that's just fine as it is for DEs vision and business plan, I can only speculate.

PS: For what it's worth, I sign this open letter.

Edited February 3, 2014 by NIL0S

[matto]

Warframe simply has no player retention.

 

And maybe that's just fine as it is for DEs vision and business plan.

 

I sometimes feel that way too and wonder if the business plan wasn't all about making money fast for a studio that needed it as the game industry is changing.

 

Indeed, if you want a long term vision for your game, you want to keep your players, and at least make a good FTUE. Warframe never had one when you see how poorly designed the tutorial or the first missions are. How many new players did they just loose from the first couple hours, max 10 hours, of playing?

 

How many players just quit after the Derelict or damage 2.0 because of the lack of communication, the lack of explanations, the lack of consistency in a lot of changes?

[grillv20]

 

As we are all aware collstro already made first, i am making another, and some more will follow soon i am sure.

 

In this letter i will explain my main concern and as well as point out smaller, point by point description.

 

Main concern:

My main concern about this game (above many other issues like grind, rng, bugs, overcomplicated damage system which, in fact, is not very good for pve) is lack of content to play.

 In my understanding in a pve game, content must be a priority. Because in pvp game, players compete against each other directly, when in pve game environment is a level by which to judge is this player is good, or what clan is better. In pve game challenge and goals must be set before players. This will bring sense to the gaming. Reason to play and strife for.

 

 For the last 9 months in this game and over 1400+ hours i can't find such environment. On a base of content to play, warframe is doing horribly. For the last 9 months the only "new" game mode that was made is survival, and even this mode have so many flaws that i can't call it a fully made mode. There is absolutely no content for high level play. Players are abusing Survivals and Endless Defenses only because they want to feel competition and put their skills and knowledge to a test. Players are making artificial difficulties for themselfs because game can not provide them with these on a basis of regular content.

 

 In current situation we have a lot of content to grind, like weapons, frames, modes - but all of it doesn't make sense in a long run. Because leveling R10 mod like heavy caliber will keep you "entertained" for a while, but in the end there is basically no real reason to have this mod, unless you want to participate in long ED or Survival runs.

 

 However, what to do in this game when you have it all? Nothing. EDs and Survivals are boring after few hundred runs and game have nothing else to offer. We don't have content to play. If to cut it short, this game literally offers only 30 hours of actual gameplay, after that you start grinding for something. But truth be told, you already have MK-1 Braton and it is a very viable weapon. It was such in 1.0 and it is such a weapon in 2.0.

 

Our huge arsenal of frames and weapons have no purpose, we don't have missions where usage of our 4-6 formas fully maxed weapons can be justified.

 

Is it so hard to make a raid mode that designed for high end players and can be done only by high end player in a team? You see this will keep your veterans occupied when new guys will have a goal to strife for. And then you release new mode and new weapons for it. Over and over again. Product must evolve. Stream becomes a river and the river flows into the sea.

 

As it now this game is in a stagnation phase, it's not a sea or river or even a stream. It's a swamp. And you, our beloved developer, continues to throw shiny stuff into this swamp that they have sunk.

 

Me as many other players invested a lot of time into this game, in hope to see it evolve. So you could use potential this product have to make a decent, or even good or great pve game. But as it now, after 9 months all i can see is a wasted time and utter stagnation.

 

I understand that you, our dearest DE, want to bring solar system to a decent view, like "unique" bosses, planet based tile sets. All of it is fine. But you see, but doing that you completely neglect the fact that your game is actually empty. It's boring, repetitive and have no goal or challenge. And without that, your product as pve game will never have healthy community that will evolve with the game, to make it better and bigger for everyone.

 

And, as promised, list of smaller concerns:

 

- Powers. Powers of the warframes provide too much of the edge. They provide ultimate advantage and playing too greater role in this game. Instead of being supportive abilities which give boost, respite or any other buff/debuff. Powers give player ultimate advantage which makes any new enemies and/or ai improvements meaningless. Current system do not cultivate skill in the game, because you are just using 1-2 powers for maximum effect. Very unhealthy system. It's boring. Another effect of this, all new frames will have no use in the game, simply because all vital positions are already filled with frames that just better at any possible niche. Prime example is of course Oberon.

 

- Damage system. Current damage system, 2.0, is the worst thing happened with the game so far. 2.0 do not provide us with variety, it's sharing the same algorithm of building a weapon with 1.0 (meaning you are still using all damage builds, which are always consist of the very same direct damage mods + some elementals and/or crit/status mods). 2.0 was called to solve armor scaling problem, in fact it only made it worse. System is way too complicated (too many types of protection for a mob, it's makes little sense), when you could use simpier solution with providing a variety of builds. like saving 2-3 mod slots for mods like fast hands for example. We still have only 3-4% of weapons viable for high level play, the rest of arsenal are still a mastery only weapons.

 Issue with polarity. Solution to this should have been added to a game with 2.0, not after couple of months, or somewhere "soon".

 

- Codex. You see when you encrypted your data you made a statement of some sort. As it now you can't trust us with leaving this data open, and we can't trust you because you know... 0.67%. And so you have introduced codex as a solution. However Warframe is a grind game, and such information like what and where drops is vital. If you locking your data, you must provide such information on ingame basis as soon as possible. You are leaving us in the dark. As it now your codex is useless. I guess it will be fixed in next couple of weeks or months, but this is not good enough. You have failed in this DE. This aspect of the game in given circumstances should've been a priority. But it's not.

 

- Grind. Unfortunatelly grind in Warframe is not a part of the game, it is a game. Making hundred runs for certain frame or a weapon is not healthy. I understand that your grind wall is called to extend play time for a player, because game don't have any content to play. But not to that extent. 120 runs for Mag Prime, 147 runs for Ember Prime, 52 runs for Seer, Detron(? i don't even bother). It's not normal. It's a highway straight to burnout for your players.

 

- Bugs. Cryopod platform on grineer asteroid base tile set on mobile defense mode. Should i say more? Some bugs have 5-6 months old stamps. It's not normal. It speaks about quality of your work.

 

Well i guess this is it.

 

This behaviour must not continue. Feel the burning stare of my hamster and change your ways. © you know who.

 

 

 

so let me get this straight. you wrote out a whole post dedicated to saying that the game has no content when you have put 1400+ hours into it? LOL ok buddy

Edited February 3, 2014 by grillv20

[matto]

so let me get this straight. you wrote out a whole post dedicated to saying that the game has no content when you have put 1400+ hours into it? LOL ok buddy

 

Me as many other players invested a lot of time into this game, in hope to see it evolve.

 

That's from Althix.

Edited February 3, 2014 by matto

[NIL0S]

I sometimes feel that way too and wonder if the business plan wasn't all about making money fast for a studio that needed it as the game industry is changing.

 

Indeed, if you want a long term vision for your game, you want to keep your players, and at least make a good FTUE. Warframe never had one when you see how poorly designed the tutorial or the first missions are. How many new players did they just loose from the first couple hours, max 10 hours, of playing?

 

How many players just quit after the Derelict or damage 2.0 because of the lack of communication, the lack of explanations, the lack of consistency in a lot of changes?

It's just mind boggling, I mean I don't have a crystal ball that tells me the truth of it, yet I can't help but think that Warframe will be dead on arrival, if it ever gets out of beta that is. From my point of view (which, granted, might be limited) it looks like anybody that seriously cares or could get interested about playing Warframe in a dedicated manner (i.e. paying customers) already got burned out before proper final release. To say that there is hope in the live content to follow also isn't realistic as what we have here already pretty much is it, and if there aren't fundamental changes to the game's core it also is all there ever will be. I could make the joke about that once Warframe will be out of beta, DE might as well abandon it and move on to make Warframe 2, but then it's a rather serious and founded suspicion :)

Edited February 3, 2014 by NIL0S

[NikolaiLev]

I sometimes feel that way too and wonder if the business plan wasn't all about making money fast for a studio that needed it as the game industry is changing.

 

 

I guarantee this is what's happening.  The evidence is all over Warframe's development.  Tons of decisions that support short-term profiteering without concern for long-term game health.  Poor weapon balance, gougetastic prices, huge amounts of grind, and no real content development.

 

That's greedy development at its finest.  DE is Activision in disguise.

[-CdG-Revo]

This thread makes me sad about the game now :(

[MegaSnail]

481 hours of the game played and I'm still not a tiny bit bored. I do have the desires to get new stuff and new things, and this game truly does lack that. This game is completely about killing things with lasers and guns and has nothing else to it. Though I do like lasers that just isn't enough... I'm as simple as I am complex. Reputation still hasn't been added, the mobile defense they promised wasn't added the way the said it. And one thing that really annoys me is that people talk about balance and yet when DE ever puts a nerf on a weapon the community guys insane.

[-CdG-Revo]

481 hours of the game played and I'm still not a tiny bit bored. I do have the desires to get new stuff and new things, and this game truly does lack that. This game is completely about killing things with lasers and guns and has nothing else to it. Though I do like lasers that just isn't enough... I'm as simple as I am complex. Reputation still hasn't been added, the mobile defense they promised wasn't added the way the said it. And one thing that really annoys me is that people talk about balance and yet when DE ever puts a nerf on a weapon the community guys insane.

you will get bored at 600 but I do have to admit I find the pvp a blast like jupiter is awesome

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I know that most of you want everything in the game, but at some point, we will need content that is harder to get.

You clearly have no idea why people hated the detron, so let me fill you in.

 

RNG. It was eight layers of RNG, so yes, while it made it hard to get, it was stupidly hard to get, and it wasn't based on skill but luck. And to make it worse, you had to grind a mark, so you could grind a mission, in order to get him to spawn. People hated it because it was clear DE put no effort/thought into how you get the detron, they just slapped a couple more RNG walls on and called it good despite saying they know RNG is a problem.

[Virtus_Dei_Est]

You clearly have no idea why people hated the detron, so let me fill you in.

 

RNG. It was eight layers of RNG, so yes, while it made it hard to get, it was stupidly hard to get, and it wasn't based on skill but luck. And to make it worse, you had to grind a mark, so you could grind a mission, in order to get him to spawn. People hated it because it was clear DE put no effort/thought into how you get the detron, they just slapped a couple more RNG walls on and called it good despite saying they know RNG is a problem.

 

this.

 

remember also the Detron was an open wound for those who supported corpus on gradivus, so hiding it behind a wild RGN wall is one of the worsts ideas up to date.

 

if DE decided instead to give it as a reward (stupid example next) for fighting against an entire faction of detron corpus wielders (high leveled, would have more logic than harvester droping detron parts, endgame here we go again), in a dungeon type secret research facility, even hard as hell, nobody would complain.

 

players are not afraid of challenge, are sick and tired of luck instead of skill.

[matto]

Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of those issues for the Detron. I should have explained more.

 

What I meant was more : every attempt to release a weapon that is designed for advanced player and is having a low drop rate (to make it really rare) will result in what happened for the Detron.

 

The Detron is a more specific case as it was supposed to be an event reward, and people were waiting for it. But if it was another weapon, we would had the same kind of reactions, wouldn't we?

 

There's two ways to release rare weapons for advanced players : either low drop rates (direct on indirect with ressources), or rewards for longer quests.

 

The first one will always result in a flame war on this forum as DE has history about messing up with drop rates and because players want everything.

 

That is what I meant.

Edited February 3, 2014 by matto

[FrissonSeeker]

Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of those issues for the Detron. I should have explained more.

 

What I meant was more : every attempt to release a weapon that is designed for advanced player and is having a low drop rate (to make it really rare) will result in what happened for the Detron.

 

The Detron is a more specific case as it was supposed to be an event reward, and people were waiting for it. But if it was another weapon, we would had the same kind of reactions, wouldn't we?

 

There's two ways to release rare weapons for advanced players : either low drop rates (direct on indirect with ressources), or rewards for longer quests.

 

The first one will always result in a flame war on this forum as DE has history about messing up with drop rates and everything.

 

That is what I meant.

I'm going to agree with you that because of special circumstances the Detron was taken poorly. But this type of content would be acceptable if the devs didn't dripfeed us "content". For new players, this type of "content" is perfectly okay and fine just like Stalker. It's just a random element that they may be surprised with whilst going about their normal business playing the game. However, the more matured player base has nothing better to do so we end up seeking Harvester which design-wise wasn't intended but because of circumstances we did anyways.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

 

There's two ways to release rare weapons for advanced players : either low drop rates (direct on indirect with ressources), or rewards for longer quests.

 

I like longer quests way. Imagine we had a secret corrupted sword that you get after killing 1000000 infested?

[LukeAura]

I'm going to agree with you that because of special circumstances the Detron was taken poorly. But this type of content would be acceptable if the devs didn't dripfeed us "content". For new players, this type of "content" is perfectly okay and fine just like Stalker. It's just a random element that they may be surprised with whilst going about their normal business playing the game. However, the more matured player base has nothing better to do so we end up seeking Harvester which design-wise wasn't intended but because of circumstances we did anyways.

Although I agree with your point I would hardly say the Harvester is as random and as 'get as you play' as the stalker. 

All factions > 1 faction

1 Boss mission per mark > 5 Invasions per mark

There is a whole lot more deliberateness involved with spawning Harvey.  

 

[Kaian-a-coel]

Although I agree with your point I would hardly say the Harvester is as random and as 'get as you play' as the stalker. 

All factions > 1 faction

1 Boss mission per mark > 5 Invasions per mark

There is a whole lot more deliberateness involved with spawning Harvey.  

 

You forgot:

only 1 drop required (blueprint) > 3 separate drops required

[BETAOPTICS]

I'm going to agree with you that because of special circumstances the Detron was taken poorly. But this type of content would be acceptable if the devs didn't dripfeed us "content". For new players, this type of "content" is perfectly okay and fine just like Stalker. It's just a random element that they may be surprised with whilst going about their normal business playing the game. However, the more matured player base has nothing better to do so we end up seeking Harvester which design-wise wasn't intended but because of circumstances we did anyways.

Exactly this and even DE admitted they made a mistake on this and hopefully they someday change their formula for more linear way of obtaining future items. I am a bit puzzled that DE did not foresee beforehand. I mean it isn't really a surprise that people want new things, especially if it is the only thing they have goals anymore and when these goals aren't met with a reliable way of obtaining things, people get frustrated. It also is a major problem in the Void as well. Like you guys talked about, it is not the skill that is endgame but the RNG mechanics.

Now all developers should know and all players know that there is no game that can produce enough content to keep up with the pace players play them trough. No artificial handicapping will do it. Some like it because of this, some hate it and find it unnecessary crippling.

When you think about it, we might see their first less RNG fix now that the Volt, Banshee and Zephyr (?) will be put into a new Dojo room rather than being dependent on RNG mechanics. I hope to see more of this in the future, although I fear if the Dojo alone is the only way to approach this because as it stands, you need a clan with rooms to get those and if all content would be shaft in there, a new player experience will be really barebones.

Edited February 3, 2014 by BETAOPTICS

[S5alad]

Generally I don't read these kinds of threads (they all tend to say the same thing, frankly), but in light of some recent announcements, I must say I agree with most of this letter.

 

Primarily in terms of communication.

 

They announced that a change would be coming to obtaining several Warframes, the addition of a Tenno Lab for dojos. Several players have voiced concerns about obtaining these seemingly lab-exclusive frames through clanless/solo play, but personally I'm more perturbed that they did so partway through an event that released a new resource type, while vaguely hinting that said resource would be used in the dojos- but saying nothing about its rarity once the event ends (which in essence could be a direct repeat of Mutagen Mass dilemma), in what quantities it would be required, or how long the Research system will delay obtainment of frames moved into its jurisdiction.

 

This isn't the first time I've felt their communication was incomplete or misleading. I'd run enough of Xini to not really be bothered by the removal of Mutagen Masses from the star chart, but even I was dismayed by the removal of Infested. As the OP stated, patch notes tend to be 75% accurate at best; "stealth nerfs" generally are euphemised (such as the case of Venom-stacking in 9.8) or go completely unrecorded (such as the more recent line-of-sight change to Pull, inability to cast abilities in the air or back to back, etc). Warframe and equipment feedback is frequently mentioned in the Community Hot Topics or asked about in Pre-stream Q&As, but the devs keep such plans very close to their chests and several Warframes go unchanged for months as a result.

Just as another example: before Nekros was released, a megathread was made announcing his abilities, and most of the feedback was negative towards "Search the Dead" (and positive towards its predecessor "Life Drain"). This was explictly noted by Megan in a following CHT with something along the lines of "It may not even make it to release"- only for players to be silently overruled by the devs and Desecrate to be released anyway completely unchanged, along with unannounced changes to two other abilities in the same arsenal that much of the playerbase didn't catch onto for weeks. I've actually talked to players who refused to slot several of these abilities as a silent protest to this violation of communicated feedback, and most of us Nekros supporters still await his review.

Similar examples can probably be found in each of the latest frames to go under the knife, most especially Valkyr- who actually received limited review very soon after her release, but it was unsatisfactory to her supporters due to complaints only being bandaged in the area of her survival, and not receiving any changes toward her damage, utility or general effectiveness in or outside of Hysteria. Communication has already failed with the recent statement that she would not be receiving any further changes upon Melee 2.0's release.

 

We understand wanting to avoid Molyneuxing the game by overhyping changes (barring the fact that they absolutely do- Armor 2.0, Damage 2.0, even Melee 2.0 and the HUD now), and wanting to actually surprise players with positive changes and lore updates (like the Harvester)- but in places where communication stagnates, either the playerbase falls to desperation, despondency, and grim acceptance that necessary change isn't coming, or we're simply shocked by how devastating and painful the unforeseen transition is (the stamina changes, for example).

 

Second thing I agree with in this letter: the stance against grinding.

 

My personal favorite event was the Survival Weekend. It was a bit short, but it did one thing that no other event thus far has done: Rewarded players for skill, not for staring at their computer screen for several hours and panicking that they won't get enough points before the event ends. It was able to be finished within one run, and players could repeatedly playtest it for as long as they wanted to after finishing. They didn't need a gimmick like scanning flowers (that often did not even show up) or competing to land the killing blow on a new enemy to keep them coming back- they just did because they found it legitimately interesting.

 

I was thinking about it the other night, and I was able to boil down all of Warframe into three categories: grinding, microtransactions, and mindless aversion of boredom. Before you get to "end game" territory, you're either grinding for XP for your current gear, grinding through missions to unlock the solar map, or grinding for parts of the next Frame to replace your current gear. End game itself is composed almost entirely of people running Defenses and Survivals. Why? Some want to get a load of resources or scans (grinding), some want to get a new record (grinding), some want keys to go to MORE defenses and survivals for gear they'll eventually keep for aesthetics and a small upgrade over the standard version (grinding)- but most just do it because they're bored. You're not motivated by a sense of adventure (partially because every mission is just a load of different-colored enemies constantly trying to kill you) or curiosity (due to the steep lack of lore, and most important figures either trying to kill you or already being dead) or exploration (primarily due to the very stringent lobby system and solar map discouraging travel, but also because every mission barring some Assassinations is composed of maps made via scrapbooking techniques which you'll see a dozen times per planet); you're generally motivated by your psychotic tendencies or your empty Foundry. 

 

Simply put, there needs to be a new motivator.

ArchWizard says it like it is, one of CM's best members.  Thanks for sharing yo.

[Althix]

@ matto.

you see 1-10 people won't do the trick. after all to pacify such insurrection somebody from mod staff can appear in let say raidcall channel. i don't know... like Rebecca. yay!
so she will spent some of her time with this group of people... and that is about it.

You see to inflict pressure on a developer it's just not enough to have some guys here and upvotes over there. It's must a collective action of at least half of player base, free or pay players doesn't matter really. Which is well... not gonna happen.

Because after what i saw in DC chat like "megan_in_bikini.jpg" jokes, it's clear that both Rebecca and Megan as tools of control over player base are too effective. Well they should be, it's their job after all and they are doing it great.
Same let say with Steve and pink shorts for example.

You see internet is a great place to rampage in anarchy in masses. However when you trying to minimize level of Chaos to elect one person or a group. Such a group is very easy to control by opposition. Like, as i said before, joining raidcall. Saying something like "oooh great input", then leave and forget about it. Damage control is done, group of people feel themselfs important, insurrection quelled, job well done.

However when a mass of people making action against something, it's harder to control them. However if remember right, apology by Sheldon basically destroyed all anti-de movement simply by the cost of 50 platinum. 50 platinum solved everything. And 50 platinum have no real value, because it's ingame currency introduced by DE. So in other words, they bought player base with nothing. That was flawless, good example to learn upon.

Moving forward. "Leaked" information from DC about plans for 2014. You see there are two types of information:
1) When you supposed to know, or allowed to know.
2) And you never know until it's too late.

So first one. "Leaked" plans for 2014. It's nothing else by viral advertisement of a product for free. Players will do everything on their own, be it forums, blogs, wiki, you name it. It happened before, it will happen again. This is why such threads with this "leaked" information is alive. If you really think that DE don't have cease and desist special forces, you are wrong.

And a second one. Like a big surprise in form of removing Infested from a solar system map. Like loadouts system. Like aura system.

So basically we know what we allowed to know.

All of it are tools to control players base, one way or another. Giving some guys the right to speak for entire or half of a community, is a bad idea. You want to confront a developer? Fine but you do that with huge amount of players. Not with group of some guys.

Because i know my place in the game. Even with all my time in this product i am not having a bigger value than a guy who just logged in. I know this game, i know how to play it, but it doesn't mean i can enforce my vision on a developer.

 

Another thing - melee weapons contest. Read the rules about how you can submit your concept of a weapon to this contest. Each melee weapon concept as it now is a property of a developer. So... you get the idea right? Very simple.


side note:
From my perspective, this game is actually good. As it now by overall quality of work done, warframe is doing much better than majority of games currently on the market. That is truth. In 15 years of online gaming, WF as a product.. well... not Eve online 10 years ago. But still DE are doing vey well.

All they need to do imho, is to address many issues with a gameplay. Because game is a mess. Too many bugs, not just some issues with vaulting over, but some serious game breaking issues, which are still around after months after being reported.
And of course, a mode or modes for high level players. Modes which would require skill and a teamwork.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Althix

[NIL0S]

Gosh... There are so many good threads on this forum with suggestions in regards to end-game (quest systems, token systems etc), I can't even be bothered with constructive criticism anymore. Might as well rant at a wall, you get the occasional "we are aware of the issue", but it ends there.

So my conclusion remains "DE don't care", that or DE is just a very clumsy developer, perhaps a bit of both.

What we have with Warframe is a flashy hamster-wheel, fun to run in it for a while but don't expect to go anywhere, you can buy golden parts for the wheel and make it spin faster, but in the end it's still just a flashy hamster-wheel that makes DE money and entertains hamsters for a short while.

[skynexus]

you guys remember the recent tutorial  they had with the clip of vor? i think you can still play it but what ever happen to that? and they just end it so soon like where's the rest of it could of been some kind of story there that was pretty much the best thing i seen from warframe

[Lucem-Infernalem]

I'm just putting my voice behind this as a veteran from the very first days of the open beta. I agree with everything stated.

[S5alad]

RESEARCH WEAPONS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE RESEARCH WEAPONS!  Not, "platinum buyout optional" nonsense.  This is messed up.

[General_Krull]

GUYS GUYS! FUSION CORES AND CREDIT CACHES AND RESOURCES ARE COMPLETELY FINE T3 VOID REWARDS! 

[Kaian-a-coel]

I believe it gives you that if you already have the part it would have given you, if my interpretation of DE's words is correct. !!Science!! has to be performed to check that.

If it is the case, it's a ruking bad idea. Well, no, not really. It is a good idea, but that's the alternate rewards that are bad. Having, say, a forma, a bunch of rare ressources (x3 orokin cells or more), or even ANOTHER PRIME PART would have been good. Common 3 cores and 2k credits? LOLNO.