Who Is The New Useless Frame?

[Barda1]

Ash - 1:st skill get overshadowed by guns, 2:nd is pretty good just 1/3 shorter than Lokis and that staggering doesn't do much for me personally. 3:rd has the right idea but takes to long to recover from and has odd targetting. 4:th is to slow and despite all the work with animations should be scrapped imho. (sorry gefu!!!!)

 

Banshee - 1:st is ok to push away with, sonar gives damage but can be useless vs bosses, Silence is probably only good when used with excals radial blind. 4:th lacks the damage of its glory days (and invinchibility frames?)

 

Ember - Has become very frail, needs some love still. Could possibly be good with good range and damage boosters and Ignis. Haven't tried though.

1:st skill is ok, but lacks usability. Better than Shuriken (imo) but still gets overshadowed by guns. 2:nd I can't tell where I stand on this one yet. 3:rd I'd love to see this one go and to get back the old #2. 4:th is ok I guess, it has its niche and it follows you around. Can't say anything about damage on higher levels.

 

Excalibur - 1:st really good acctually. Ok/good damage, movement and you can use it in more startingpositions than just standing still on ground. 2:nd is pretty damn good, stun, blind, extra melee damage - doesn't need line of sight...good! Use suppressor on your gun. 3:rd is ok, usefull and can be paired up with heavy impact, not great but ok. 4:th is rather bad. Needs to "land a hit" and Excalibur flexes around to damn long after the damage has been dealt, this opens up for enemies to just right out kill your &#!.

 

Frost - 1:st why does it unfreeze when you hit hit? IF it's to stay do some bad &#! "shatter" extra damage amplifier on it. 2: early on it's ok, then crap. Replace it with a "wall" or something. 3:rd...Snow globe I'm not going to say anything other than that I really don't like it, but I do use it because I CAN. 4:th Perhaps it's better now than before, but it's an AoE blast like every other.

 

Loki - 1:st is good, 2:nd is good, 3:rd is the troll of trolls, 4:th is ok/good...where is the prime version? Give it only to ME so I can use mass switch teleport and new 5:th Legendary Pink Shorts.

 

Mag - 1:st pull can be a bi**h but also good, shield polarize still needs some love but I'm hoping it is made more usefull with the comming UI, 3:rd ok for it's intended purpose. Headshots can however be better. 4:th This skill just takes to damn long to dish out the damage. While this shouldn't matter as the targets are incapacitated and it's a co-op game...it still does because everyone else kills the enemies affected before the damage is applied anyway. And if they don't die it feels a bit odd that they just get up as usual. Main issue is the cast time though. Click - now let me go!

 

Nekros - 1:st really good, knock down heavies/ancients with a simple push and kill them while on the ground. Also damages anyone behind. 2:nd can be used in a pinch, ok I guess. More effective against Infested. 3:rd LOOT! it's good. 4:th Good for scanning stuff you've killed...takes to long to cast, revives can be distracting and die rather fast.

 

Nova - 1:st usefull vs lower enemies and pretty ok if you considder it's 900 damage total (6x150). Loses usefullness lter on. 2:nd akward, but pretty good, never really got the hang of it myself. 3:rd yeah, that Rhino deserved to be swapped to the abyss and miss his end game reward, he truly did, rushing yerk :P Good for that reason aswell as other, 4:th best room clearer in game, also a frag stealer of legendry proportions and quite boring for others. Same "broken" feeling as Snow globe and Blessing. I can use it, so I will, but I wish it was different.

 

Nyx - 1:st usefull bu usually gets downed by teammates, also 3:rd does the job better most of the time. 2:nd Needs a buff, this is basically a 1:st skill on slot 2. 3:rd this skill is probably the best scaling one, nothing to say here. 4:th decent, better at giving you a second chance (reload shields) than dishing out damage.

 

Oberon - 1:st need better targetting on secondary "bolts" or something, faster movement? idk. 2:nd is a good idea but may need some additional radiation proc-thingy or slowing effect. 3:rd the seeking bolts are so slow your friend will DIE before they get there, if they get there it's however quite good :). 4:th is ok.

 

Rhino - 1:st good, 2:nd good, 3:rd good, 4:th good.. often played by *beeps*. Nothing against the frame though.

 

Saryn - She's slow. Haven't played with her in ages. Can't say anything about her really, got her in the foundry cooking right now. From what I remeber she had Molt which was a porer version of decoy, not useless bot not very good. (If it were to blow up and/or if Saryn got a speed boost/invisibility after shedding her skin - possibly lover armor - that would have been something). Can't say much else.

 

Trinity - meh, nha, mhmm - OP AS *BEEP*... on a more serious note. The first and second skills are not at all how I would have made them, while usefull they are somewhat odd in a moving mission, 3:rd is rather good but those lines are quite annoying. 4:th this with the right mods and 2:nd skill give invinchibility...yeah that needs to be changed asap, I'm sorry but that is just game breaking.

 

Valkyr - 1:st fun, not what I would have done with the grappling hook, but oh well. 2:nd possibly really good with maxed out mods, don't know however. (300 armor + 110% from steel fiber = 630 armor. 630 + 114.5% (maxed focus and blind rage) = 1351,35 armor. That should render you pretty sturdy, haven't tried though) 3:rd could also theoretically be good, but doesn't seem to work like you'd imagine. 4:th the melee range and single target repetitiveness kills it.

 

Vauban Booben - 1:st decent, 2, not much used, unless a troll, 3:rd great vs infested, ok otherwise. 4:th - decent.

 

Volt - 1:st better than before..., 2:nd handy, but the melee buff isn't really that usefull most of the time, 3:rd saves lives and alters weapons, good. 4:th - not a fan of long cast times. Though bugs have hopefully been fixed by now this skill had me hanging for 4-30 seconds at time (yes! half a minute, possibly due to lag/fps/bug) good/ok vs corpus.

 

Some of this may be wrong, It's just what I think is right from the things I've read + gameplay. You may enlighten me if so, but don't go bashing away. It is also only what I think, not a "fact".

I'd say none of the frames are really "bad" but some needs a few more changes than others. Skills need to be more well rounded - removed or repolished. Some frames lack "usefull" skills that are simply overshadowed by others (their own or others frames) and others just doesn't work as well as you hoped for.

I'd say Ash needs the most attention, simply becuse his gameplay "feel" is hurt most by how his skills work/doesn't work. Every single one of his skills needs tweeks or to be completly scrapped (looking at you blade storm).

Edited January 22, 2014 by Barda1

[PanicPrime]

It's interesting to see so many people put Valkyr down as low tier.

I'd put her in high if not god tier.

 

She is the only frame capable of permanent invincibility. Trinity has blessing, which has a long cast time and lasts 1/3 as long as Hysteria, while Hysteria is capabe of running for over a minute for 30 energy and a very short cast time.

Also, don't forget that unlike Blessing, Hysteria makes you completely immune to knockdowns.

 

Her mobility power, rip-line, is arguably the best mobility power in the game. It doesn't require enemies/players like Ash/Loki's teleports, and offers more versatility and control than worm hole. And it can be used as a ranged weapon that ragdolls heavies or bosses for a very small energy cost.

 

War cry is useless as a team ability, but combined with Hysteria it's just free damage. And hello melee 2.0! Soon

 

Paralysis is the only blacksheep in her abilities, but under hysteria your shields are irrelevant, so you've got a spammable AoE stun that's practically free.

 

Her only real disadvantage is that she isn't much of a team player.

That is, until you get to the higher levels and team mates start going down all over the place. Who gets them back up? The invincible knockdown immune Valkyr does.

Who runs out of extraction to pick you up in the middle of a swarm during a survival vacuum? Valkyr does.

 

 

If Vauban is the king of Infested defence, and Frost is the king of other defence, Valkyr is the queen of pretty much everything else.

[SniffYoBunnies]

Would anybody tell me why Vauban is so good?

Your profile picture...

Oh the irony

[CrashDaxter]

Valkyr. 

[Shyvorix]

It's interesting to see so many people put Valkyr down as low tier.

I'd put her in high if not god tier.

 

She is the only frame capable of permanent invincibility. Trinity has blessing, which has a long cast time and lasts 1/3 as long as Hysteria, while Hysteria is capabe of running for over a minute for 30 energy and a very short cast time.

Also, don't forget that unlike Blessing, Hysteria makes you completely immune to knockdowns.

 

Her mobility power, rip-line, is arguably the best mobility power in the game. It doesn't require enemies/players like Ash/Loki's teleports, and offers more versatility and control than worm hole. And it can be used as a ranged weapon that ragdolls heavies or bosses for a very small energy cost.

 

War cry is useless as a team ability, but combined with Hysteria it's just free damage. And hello melee 2.0! Soon

 

Paralysis is the only blacksheep in her abilities, but under hysteria your shields are irrelevant, so you've got a spammable AoE stun that's practically free.

 

Her only real disadvantage is that she isn't much of a team player.

That is, until you get to the higher levels and team mates start going down all over the place. Who gets them back up? The invincible knockdown immune Valkyr does.

Who runs out of extraction to pick you up in the middle of a swarm during a survival vacuum? Valkyr does.

 

 

If Vauban is the king of Infested defence, and Frost is the king of other defence, Valkyr is the queen of pretty much everything else.

Ho.....ly.....crap.

Someone who finally understands how Valkyr works.

+1 to you fellow Tenno.

[AntLion]

It's interesting to see so many people put Valkyr down as low tier.

I'd put her in high if not god tier.

Did you try Valkyr on T3 Defense, 30+min Survivals, 30+waves Defenses, against 40+lvl enemies when she stops dealing any significant damage without guns under Hysteria and dies very fast without invulnerability of her ult? God tier, my &#!.

[Aure7]

I hate how warframes are rated on their performance on super high defense / survival missions. If they can't make a crapton of stuff die fast, it's useless?

 

Some are simply for a playstyle and fun, and warframe will hopefully not be all about defense and survival in the future.

[Cyrionn]

Well, as a not that experienced player I can't state for all frames as I haven't been playing them enough/at all.
But I can give my point of view for those I know.

God Tier :

Nyx : yup, the CC queen plus one of the best damage dealing ult if used properly, she makes the hardcore as soft as baby skin

Loki : do I really have to state on the master race ?

High Tier :

Nova : her 4 does everything you'd need except invulnerability and lifestealing (DE should think about adding that!), then her 2 and 3 are situationnal but far from useless

Vauban : another CC beast, though I'd prefer Nyx to him in many situations, still more than worth a place in your team

Rhino : me enter room, ignores radial blast, stomp, kill S#&$ ; and if you're being pesky I may roar to beat you harder. He's overall good for everything, Rhino's

Frost : globe for easy def, revive and some more occasions, then some good CC on ult

Low Tier :

Excalibur : decent CC, mobility, overall not that bad but not that good either. Though it is said that it's a versatile frame and he that fits to him without making him a beast in anything

Oberon : mah Obe... my main frame, I love it and after 5 forma it's a beast in most the situations once you get to full power strength/efficiency and add Equilibrium-spamming-mode, the only thing he's not really able to handle easily high lvl tanky mobs.
But if you take a look at the warframe abilities without consideriing the mods his 1 is a joke in open spaces, barely usefull in corridors. His 2 is usefull only in defense and really efficient on infested ones, other than that you'll prefer to use Reckoning anytime. His 3 is a poor healing that can be usefull on yourself but allies shouldn't count on it, they run twice as fast as this poor projectile. Then his ult is the real S#&$, decent CC, good damages, not that bad range and the red balls on top of that, that saves this poor Oberon !

Rework-please Tier :
*drum roll*

Valkyr : no one saw that coming I guess ! Well, I also love this frame and played her a lot. I can manage to be usefull for my team in many situations and I think this frame is overall good, very fun but hard to play due to her squishiness. She doesn't need that much work.
Her Rip Line is actually usefull for some situations, and a very nice trolling ability. You can use it to CC ennemies that would put you in a bad situation and save your ult for a more proper situation.
Her Warcry is actually is very nice tool, good buff and helps to keep ennemies in range of the claws or to slow them to run away safely with boosted armor. The problem is that it doesn't interrupt the attack pattern, sometimes wouldn't even cast for one second without hitting. Make it instant cast and there will be nothing to add there.
The 3 (too lazy to remember the name...) is...well useless sorry. Okay I get the point that Valkyr is a no-shield lifestealing frame so basically it can be spammed for perma stun. But Valkyr is too squishy to stay in the front line without using her Hysteria very soon, and when under ult you will just use your warcry once or twice and keep on attacking/running after everyone and the jump attack from the claws to knockdown. I might miss something with this, but please tell me what...

And then the main dish, Hysteria. I love this ult, at least the concept with the invulnerability plus lifestealing in berserk mode with crazy claws.
First, it would be nice if it was working as intended, the melee weapon bugs, the attack pattern stuck to one single attack, the melee auto-targetting the can lead you hitting a wall (it's a target I guess, secondary though), the fact that the true attack speed depends on FPS (when nova/saryn/mag decide to break the graphics all together...)...I'm missing some for sure, and I'm not talking about the graphic bugs.
Then I think the attack pattern isn't that bad, it reaches both crawling and flying ennemies, just looks a bit too reckless. The problem is that it can hardly be interrupted as you keep mashing E to match your attack speed with warcry buff, then getting to cast it again can be a pain. Sometimes it wouldn't even consider the attack speed buff if you start attacking too early... And timing the jump attacks on top of that makes it even more complicated and messy.
Now the lack of mobility or range while attacking just makes you feel so akward. Considering that the damage on those claws is good but not crazy even with full power strength and it's single target damage, the loss of DPS due to missed hits to get in true range makes it weak even in early levels, in end game getting no damage from weapons as from the claws makes Hysteria an handicaped self version of Blessing...

AoE damages scaling on target hp and full mobility while attacking can save this ult, once of course all the technical bugs are fixed because that would already make a HUGE difference.

Sorry for the novel, that's my two cents !

Edited January 22, 2014 by Cyrionn

[Clamsinasoup]

I died when I saw the Oberon picture xD

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah, and I have to say that Valkyr is the most useless by far

[Garuger]

Ahaha. You're funny.

At least Ember can deal decent damage if you build her right.

Valkyr on the other hand... :/

Ember cant do anything her animations are slow / the duration are low /

low damage to anything that is above 30 no defense mechanism no

survability .

 

While Valkyr building her right can unleash more damage than Ember 

has better survability , she is useful to team and does not burden

anyone and can be useful even at high end missions 

 

So yes Ember is garbage compared to Valkyr 

Edited January 22, 2014 by Garuger

[Garuger]

It's interesting to see so many people put Valkyr down as low tier.

I'd put her in high if not god tier.

 

She is the only frame capable of permanent invincibility. Trinity has blessing, which has a long cast time and lasts 1/3 as long as Hysteria, while Hysteria is capabe of running for over a minute for 30 energy and a very short cast time.

Also, don't forget that unlike Blessing, Hysteria makes you completely immune to knockdowns.

 

Her mobility power, rip-line, is arguably the best mobility power in the game. It doesn't require enemies/players like Ash/Loki's teleports, and offers more versatility and control than worm hole. And it can be used as a ranged weapon that ragdolls heavies or bosses for a very small energy cost.

 

War cry is useless as a team ability, but combined with Hysteria it's just free damage. And hello melee 2.0! Soon

 

Paralysis is the only blacksheep in her abilities, but under hysteria your shields are irrelevant, so you've got a spammable AoE stun that's practically free.

 

Her only real disadvantage is that she isn't much of a team player.

That is, until you get to the higher levels and team mates start going down all over the place. Who gets them back up? The invincible knockdown immune Valkyr does.

Who runs out of extraction to pick you up in the middle of a swarm during a survival vacuum? Valkyr does.

 

 

If Vauban is the king of Infested defence, and Frost is the king of other defence, Valkyr is the queen of pretty much everything else.

She is good but not used correctly

[PanicPrime]

Did you try Valkyr on T3 Defense, 30+min Survivals, 30+waves Defenses, against 40+lvl enemies when she stops dealing any significant damage without guns under Hysteria and dies very fast without invulnerability of her ult? God tier, my &#!.

 

Valkyr was my go-to frame when grinding ODS for burston prime. Map layout permitting, she can easily get to 45 minutes solo. Map one of your mouse buttons to spam melee until pressed again, turn on melee auto targeting in options, and you don't even need to touch the mouse for 60 seconds at a time.

 

I know she isn't much of a team player. She contributes very little in defence, but in any other situation she can out-live and out-maneuver most other frames.

Who can grab life support faster than Valkyr? Dual Zoren + ripline + god mode = sanik speeds with 6 degrees of freedom.

 

In solo you don't need damage, because you are invincible.

In a group, just team up with three high DPS players who understand the concept of "stick together" and you can revive them til the end of time.

 

She's not a frame for everyone, sure. She isn't going to have a scree filled with numbers. But she's guaranteed to always be the last frame standing.

[Zkorp]

It's interesting to see so many people put Valkyr down as low tier.

I'd put her in high if not god tier.

 

She is the only frame capable of permanent invincibility. Trinity has blessing, which has a long cast time and lasts 1/3 as long as Hysteria, while Hysteria is capabe of running for over a minute for 30 energy and a very short cast time.

Also, don't forget that unlike Blessing, Hysteria makes you completely immune to knockdowns.

 

Her mobility power, rip-line, is arguably the best mobility power in the game. It doesn't require enemies/players like Ash/Loki's teleports, and offers more versatility and control than worm hole. And it can be used as a ranged weapon that ragdolls heavies or bosses for a very small energy cost.

 

War cry is useless as a team ability, but combined with Hysteria it's just free damage. And hello melee 2.0! Soon

 

Paralysis is the only blacksheep in her abilities, but under hysteria your shields are irrelevant, so you've got a spammable AoE stun that's practically free.

 

Her only real disadvantage is that she isn't much of a team player.

That is, until you get to the higher levels and team mates start going down all over the place. Who gets them back up? The invincible knockdown immune Valkyr does.

Who runs out of extraction to pick you up in the middle of a swarm during a survival vacuum? Valkyr does.

 

 

If Vauban is the king of Infested defence, and Frost is the king of other defence, Valkyr is the queen of pretty much everything else.

I love the Valkyr, but Valkyr is not the queen of killing... After some wave it's cool to be indestructible, but you don't kill S#&$, and the game revolve around that : killing and killing fast. Ok you're a reviver, but then ? Even if not an AoE I think that her attack under hysteria should at least grow up damages on a single target (build damges in order to kill something even if its longer...).

[Garuger]

Valkyr was my go-to frame when grinding ODS for burston prime. Map layout permitting, she can easily get to 45 minutes solo. Map one of your mouse buttons to spam melee until pressed again, turn on melee auto targeting in options, and you don't even need to touch the mouse for 60 seconds at a time.

 

I know she isn't much of a team player. She contributes very little in defence, but in any other situation she can out-live and out-maneuver most other frames.

Who can grab life support faster than Valkyr? Dual Zoren + ripline + god mode = sanik speeds with 6 degrees of freedom.

 

In solo you don't need damage, because you are invincible.

In a group, just team up with three high DPS players who understand the concept of "stick together" and you can revive them til the end of time.

 

She's not a frame for everyone, sure. She isn't going to have a scree filled with numbers. But she's guaranteed to always be the last frame standing.

All i want for valkyr is to be immune from knockdown in her Warcry .

I love using her with a good crit meelee build but the constant knowckback is

just annoying 

[NuSpirit]

I died when I saw the Oberon picture xD

 

Same here - Odeeron killed me.

 

About uselessnes - surely most useless is Valkyr and Ash at high levels (Valkyr ... meh and Ash - stealthy ninja which just tackle you at mid-end game) As second to their "first place" is Excalibur for me (hate ulti move, which does dmg only to line of sight enemies, so even slighties obstacle in way and no dmg is done if at least there were some % from) and Banshee.

[Tali]

I died when I saw the Oberon picture xD

mee too xD, it was the first thing i noticed in the pic

[PanicPrime]

All i want for valkyr is to be immune from knockdown in her Warcry .

I love using her with a good crit meelee build but the constant knowckback is

just annoying 

 

You can be immune to knockdown during warcry if you pop hysteria first.

 

The only real problem with Valkyr I find is that you HAVE to optimize your build for hysteria usage, as all her abilities rely on it to some degree.

War cry is a damage boost during Hysteria and little else.

Paralysis eats your shields, and if you need to pop this skill out of hysteria chances are you don't have any shields left anyway.

Rip-line is useful outside of hysteria, but is best capitalized to make up for the lack of zoren coptering.

 

Honestly though, these are issues that would require a rework of the entire frame to solve. Though I do think paralysis should drop the gimmick and become a regular 25/50 energy cost ability.

 

beyond that the only way I can think of to improve valkyr is to let your melee mods carry over into hysteria to help with the damage scaling.

[Garuger]

You can be immune to knockdown during warcry if you pop hysteria first.

 

The only real problem with Valkyr I find is that you HAVE to optimize your build for hysteria usage, as all her abilities rely on it to some degree.

War cry is a damage boost during Hysteria and little else.

Paralysis eats your shields, and if you need to pop this skill out of hysteria chances are you don't have any shields left anyway.

Rip-line is useful outside of hysteria, but is best capitalized to make up for the lack of zoren coptering.

 

Honestly though, these are issues that would require a rework of the entire frame to solve. Though I do think paralysis should drop the gimmick and become a regular 25/50 energy cost ability.

 

beyond that the only way I can think of to improve valkyr is to let your melee mods carry over into hysteria to help with the damage scaling.

I personally use warcry like a mini ult 

With a proper meelee crit such as 

Cleavers/Zoren/Ichor or if you dont 

like crit fang prime etc .

That is why i think warcry should 

do more like gaining stamina with each 

kill/no knockdown etc 

 

However if her ult gained he mods of

the melee i dont know if that would be

op or viable .I mean she already has

100 on each stat (puncture,impact,slash,)

imagine that with  220% damage 70% 

attack speed , 90% crit damage and

60% crit chance not counting the extra

damage of element combo .

I do not say it would bad in fact it would

be awesome 

Edited January 22, 2014 by Garuger

[Llyssa]

The strange part of this exercise is, it tells us less about the frames and more about the players. All of them are quite useful if you know how, and where, to use them.

 

Valkyr is the ultimate sniper. You can get to almost anywhere with ripline, and you can then proceed to raindown hellfire, unopposed.

 

Ember, nekros, and oberon are 3 of my most-used frames.

 

Excal and nekros probably need a slight damage buff on their skills(soul punch deals impact damage, the most useless of all d-types), but are otherwise great.

 

I would say, on "tiers", rhino and nova are mid-grade, at best.

 

Rhino has exactly 1 interesting ability that is preferable in exactly 1 situation--stomp makes it easier to hit bosses that have invincibility phases.

 

Nova is fantastic until you hit content above the "molecular prime deals lethal damage" point on enemies(somewhere around 25 to 35). Above that, she's a frame with 1 skill that's only cool if you put a ton of effort into it(antimatter drop), 2 mediocre skills(null star isn't particularly interesting at that point, and mprime is an over-priced nerf version of sonar), and 1 totally broken skill(wormhole was great when it worked, but the spawning and targeting on it make it useless in virtually any non-hanger room--it won't spawn where you aim it, and you have a fair chance of falling out of the map when you can actually reach the entrance to use it).

 

I have not used banshee recently at all, so I cannot reliably comment on her.

[K_Shiro]

So I guess I shouldn't talk about Frost being a globeframe :) I mean his globe is his only power - I would really love to trade it for overall coolness.

- Skill 1 doing aoe long term slow.

- Skill 2 doing freezing in a wide line.

- Skill 3 creating a storm that weakens passing shots by 50-75% (depending on rank), even those coming from the inside!

- Skill 4 freezing every enemy in a huge area for a long time.

All freeze effects making enemies more vulnerable to any slash, impact, piercing and blast damage, only breaking effect on hits that are larger than 50% health (single hit damage).

This way Frost would still be a good defensive frame... hell he would be better and at last all it's skills would be truly useful!

 

As for Nekros I pretty much agree with him being low tier.

- Skill 1 His first skill lost nearly all Ragdoll effect aoe.

- Skill 2 Terrify or whatnot is only effective against infested and actually you are better off running since the next wave that was unaffected will eat you otherwise.

- Skill 3 Desecration is mostly good only for survivals (or farming of course - actually this is his best skill now? wow),

- Skill 4 Chaos_v0.3 err... well, Nekros' über skill feels like a washed up Chaos from Nyx only it's way weaker. Nyx only pays 75 energy for an ability that affects every enemy around, turning them on each other, effectively stopping all hostilities towards you except the ones standing in your face. Only weakness (compared to the Shadows') that it's practically useless against bosses, if no enemies are around.

Nekros' ultimate skill on the other hand uses more energy and summons a very limited supply of minions while them being still the same level as their enemies - since they are those you killed, - you, meaning if the others are that much better, you might end up without summons! Actually you can even use up all your kills meaning you will be out of monsta's to summon soon enough if you rely on this heavily.

If we could at least summon them without limit (never having the "skill in use" reply) and/or with always the last X kills or highest rank kills summoned in a never depleting way... I know, I might be naive but hope dies last.

 

Actually overall the greatest problem (as mentioned above) that we lack ultimate skills that are original - most of them are just aoe nukes. I believe for example Banshee's sonar is way better than her ultimate (needs scaling to fill that role, maybe extra duration or such) and there are numerous others that are useless because all they can do is damage enemies - which against high-level enemies becomes old very fast.

 

So back to the topic, my opinion is (from the most useful to most useless - for a team):

 

Frost*, Nova, Vauban*, Nyx, Rhino, Banshee, Trinity, Nekros, Mag, Loki, Oberon, Valkyr, Volt, Ember, Saryn, Ash, Excalibur.

 

*Frost feels better than Vauban because the globe is not limited to X number of enemies like the Bastille - it's best to keep in mind though that Frost is pretty much useless when Infested are around, though the slowing is still nice.

[Garuger]

So I guess I shouldn't talk about Frost being a globeframe :) I mean his globe is his only power - I would really love to trade it for overall coolness.

- Skill 1 doing aoe long term slow.

- Skill 2 doing freezing in a wide line.

- Skill 3 creating a storm that weakens passing shots by 50-75% (depending on rank), even those coming from the inside!

- Skill 4 freezing every enemy in a huge area for a long time.

All freeze effects making enemies more vulnerable to any slash, impact, piercing and blast damage, only breaking effect on hits that are larger than 50% health (single hit damage).

This way Frost would still be a good defensive frame... hell he would be better and at last all it's skills would be truly useful!

 

As for Nekros I pretty much agree with him being low tier.

- Skill 1 His first skill lost nearly all Ragdoll effect aoe.

- Skill 2 Terrify or whatnot is only effective against infested and actually you are better off running since the next wave that was unaffected will eat you otherwise.

- Skill 3 Desecration is mostly good only for survivals (or farming of course - actually this is his best skill now? wow),

- Skill 4 Chaos_v0.3 err... well, Nekros' über skill feels like a washed up Chaos from Nyx only it's way weaker. Nyx only pays 75 energy for an ability that affects every enemy around, turning them on each other, effectively stopping all hostilities towards you except the ones standing in your face. Only weakness (compared to the Shadows') that it's practically useless against bosses, if no enemies are around.

Nekros' ultimate skill on the other hand uses more energy and summons a very limited supply of minions while them being still the same level as their enemies - since they are those you killed, - you, meaning if the others are that much better, you might end up without summons! Actually you can even use up all your kills meaning you will be out of monsta's to summon soon enough if you rely on this heavily.

If we could at least summon them without limit (never having the "skill in use" reply) and/or with always the last X kills or highest rank kills summoned in a never depleting way... I know, I might be naive but hope dies last.

 

Actually overall the greatest problem (as mentioned above) that we lack ultimate skills that are original - most of them are just aoe nukes. I believe for example Banshee's sonar is way better than her ultimate (needs scaling to fill that role, maybe extra duration or such) and there are numerous others that are useless because all they can do is damage enemies - which against high-level enemies becomes old very fast.

 

So back to the topic, my opinion is (from the most useful to most useless - for a team):

 

Frost*, Nova, Vauban*, Nyx, Rhino, Banshee, Trinity, Nekros, Mag, Loki, Oberon, Valkyr, Volt, Ember, Saryn, Ash, Excalibur.

 

*Frost feels better than Vauban because the globe is not limited to X number of enemies like the Bastille - it's best to keep in mind though that Frost is pretty much useless when Infested are around, though the slowing is still nice.

Frost is fine leave him as he is 

[Magmahunter]

welp, gg, no revives for whoever voted for Valkyr.

[Anatolius]

Personally how I determine a warframe is good is by asking a few questions (for none specialized builds):

Does the ability work as intended? (Hysteria does what it should but the application causes the ability to fall short rather quickly due to range and general strength less you specialize)

Do I get the output for the input (cost of energy for results)

Do the abilities enhance the overall theme of the warframe and their stats? (Nova destroys things that cause harm while Loki hides and plays tricks)

Can you use all the abilities even if situational? (Silence for example is a rare situation due to stealth being rare so you don't even need it. This it works as intended but is unnecessary due to the nature of the game)

[milkor88]

I think ash is quite useless now tbh.

 

Not so much liability, just tankish health and no more.

[Phoenix86]

It's interesting to see so many people put Valkyr down as low tier.

I'd put her in high if not god tier.

 

She is the only frame capable of permanent invincibility. Trinity has blessing, which has a long cast time and lasts 1/3 as long as Hysteria, while Hysteria is capabe of running for over a minute for 30 energy and a very short cast time.

Also, don't forget that unlike Blessing, Hysteria makes you completely immune to knockdowns.

 

Her mobility power, rip-line, is arguably the best mobility power in the game. It doesn't require enemies/players like Ash/Loki's teleports, and offers more versatility and control than worm hole. And it can be used as a ranged weapon that ragdolls heavies or bosses for a very small energy cost.

 

War cry is useless as a team ability, but combined with Hysteria it's just free damage. And hello melee 2.0! Soon

 

Paralysis is the only blacksheep in her abilities, but under hysteria your shields are irrelevant, so you've got a spammable AoE stun that's practically free.

 

Her only real disadvantage is that she isn't much of a team player.

That is, until you get to the higher levels and team mates start going down all over the place. Who gets them back up? The invincible knockdown immune Valkyr does.

Who runs out of extraction to pick you up in the middle of a swarm during a survival vacuum? Valkyr does.

 

 

If Vauban is the king of Infested defence, and Frost is the king of other defence, Valkyr is the queen of pretty much everything else.

 

Link says "Hello" oh and Blessing is "perma party invincibility" not "self invincibility"

 

Hysteria turns you in an invincible killing machine that... well doesnt kill anything at all past lvl 50+ and starts to have troubles way earlier.

Warcry is still crap because Armor is crap and the increased attack speed is crap because normal attacks are crap (and melee in general is, 'till 2.0 comes out than we MIGHT see some decent melee)

Paralysis is crap because if you use it without hysteria it's almost a suicide button against ranged enemies

Ripline is good and fun.

 

Valkyr needs help...

Edited January 22, 2014 by Phoenix86