Why Would Anyone Use The Physical Damage Mods?

[Juvieus_Kaine]

Trouble with balancing Eruend's suggestion is that you want it to affect only the Physical damage type in question, not the entire lot. If it's the entire lot, you can overstack and create a mess, which I don't think is what is intended.

 

However, both the Physical and Status Proc mods are rather rubbish. The Rare/Nightmare mods with status proc numbers are way better and the Physical mods don't add enough to justify using them when a Damage mod just increases the lot. All we really need is each set of mods are equal for all weapon categories and that their percentages are increased to something like 7%-10% per rank. That way you can justify using them because they add more to your weapon.

[Zhizn]

yeah his suggestion would be difficult to balance in the current system, though I'd love a per-damage type status chance on weapons.  Though that would likely be too complex for an average user to enjoy - not everyone likes playing with numbers as much as I do.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

The only situation I've found physical damage mods to have ANY use is when applying them to my Fang Prime. They're almost all Puncture damage, Rending strike adds +90% puncture damage. Even then, it's the last mod I'll put on it, as all the other standard melee mods (Pressure Point, Spoiled Strike, Fury) have a better return.

[Kyphe]

So the highest physical damage modifier is +50% puncture to ferrite

the lowest elemental damage modifier is -50% electric to alloy

 

so lets really stack the deck.

 

lets take a fictional gun with 100 points of puncture and nothing else.

 

for 9 points you can add 30% or 30 points of puncture for a total of 130 which will do 195 points of damage to ferrite and 149 points to alloy.

 

for 9 points you can add 60% of electrical damage for a total of 160 points of damage 100 puncture and 60 electric. this will do 150+60=210 to ferrite and 115+30=145 to alloy.

 

So the very best result for physical damage it is possible to achieve is just 3 points against 1 particular damage type with a gun that only has that damage type, in every other regard the elemental wins by a huge margin.

 

so basically it is better to use entirely the wrong elemental against grineer than use the right physical damage mod ????!!! wtf

 

When I first realized this I could only believe this was a mistake, the cost of the physical damage mods only makes sense if they add to base damage and then stack with elementals, this is clearly how it should be.

 

otherwise 9 points should get you 100% physical damage buff, or reduce the cost respectively.

 

this is for primary's ofc, secondary's get 60% for 7 points and melee gets 90% for 7 points which is much more viable

Edited January 28, 2014 by Kyphe

[Salenstormwing]

My feelings on the +x% to Slash/Impact/Puncture damage:

 

Right now it tends to be more cost effective to focus on getting a good +x% damage mod, like Hornet Strike or Serration, since it works overall, then you focus second on adding extra elemental damage, since it tends to be better damage in the long run in comparison to the +x% to Slash/Impact/Puncture only mods. Even if an elemental mod isn't super effective, it still tends to do better damage overall.

 

So, simple fix.

 

Change mods that are ONLY +x% to Slash/Impact/Puncture to +x% EXTRA to Slash/Impact/Puncture.

 

The mods basically turn Slash, Impact, and Puncture damage into a non-elemental element.

 

So, maybe you like your gun with high impact damage, but wish it worked better verses grineer or infested. Slap in a puncture or slash mod to the gun, and boom, instead of adding a tiny portion of extra damage to a weak stat, you get the stat boosted like it was an element, even though it's a puncture or slash mod.

 

Suddenly Armor Piercing ammo actually pierces armor, even on a gun that might not have Puncture damage on it's damage list.

[Kyphe]

My feelings on the +x% to Slash/Impact/Puncture damage:

 

Right now it tends to be more cost effective to focus on getting a good +x% damage mod, like Hornet Strike or Serration, since it works overall, then you focus second on adding extra elemental damage, since it tends to be better damage in the long run in comparison to the +x% to Slash/Impact/Puncture only mods. Even if an elemental mod isn't super effective, it still tends to do better damage overall.

 

So, simple fix.

 

Change mods that are ONLY +x% to Slash/Impact/Puncture to +x% EXTRA to Slash/Impact/Puncture.

 

The mods basically turn Slash, Impact, and Puncture damage into a non-elemental element.

 

So, maybe you like your gun with high impact damage, but wish it worked better verses grineer or infested. Slap in a puncture or slash mod to the gun, and boom, instead of adding a tiny portion of extra damage to a weak stat, you get the stat boosted like it was an element, even though it's a puncture or slash mod.

 

Suddenly Armor Piercing ammo actually pierces armor, even on a gun that might not have Puncture damage on it's damage list.

 

So if your gun does 4 puncture 5 slash and 45 impact for a total of 54 base damage, adding a mod with 50% slash would add 50% of 54 base damage not 50% of 5.

 

The gun would then do 4 puncture 32 slash and 45 impact, not 4 puncture 8 slash and 45 impact which is the current system.

[Salenstormwing]

So if your gun does 4 puncture 5 slash and 45 impact for a total of 54 base damage, adding a mod with 50% slash would add 50% of 54 base damage not 50% of 5.

 

The gun would then do 4 puncture 32 slash and 45 impact, not 4 puncture 8 slash and 45 impact which is the current system.

 

Exactly. Armor Piercing ammo would ACTUALLY pierce armor. Slash-damage ammo would actually up a LOT more slash damage. Treat it like ELEMENTAL damage with +X Extra damage, suddenly the mods are actually practical.

 

Otherwise you just build your gun if it's high for 1 stat, with 1 Serration/Hornest Strike/Whatever, and + 1 mod for whatever the damage is the best for that weapon.

[Eric1738]

all physical mods need to be buffed to the level of melee physical mods(7 cost 90% damage increase) or even better. now they(except melee) totally suck

[PoinTmaN_BingA]

I personally love them and use them on every weapon i have . In fact it is a core build with them that extra damage they add is very important

Here are my builds http://imgur.com/a/rDZ7e . Besides what else could i use?

Sorry, this is right in the middle of a currently different discussion, but I looked at your loadout images and noticed that it appears you have both rifle ammo mutation and pistol ammo mutation equipped...I have wondered if that setup works well or not, maybe you or someone else can chime in on that

[Killerdude8]

If you have a Weapon with a lot of one Damage type, Ala Tigris, You can get a pretty notable Damage boost by adding it, But putting one on something like a Soma, doesn't make any true difference.

[Eric1738]

If you have a Weapon with a lot of one Damage type, Ala Tigris, You can get a pretty notable Damage boost by adding it, But putting one on something like a Soma, doesn't make any true difference.

 

+30% of 95% base damage vs. +90% of 100% base damage... wow true difference. even for weapons like tigris, miter and flux, physical damage mods are still too bad

 

[Archistopheles]

Give the mods the Accelerated Blast treatment so that that mod doesn't get nerfed: (scale off total damage, not individual damage)

[Zhizn]

Killer, you can get a better damage boost with another elemental mod.  Even if its the absolute worst element against the faction type you're facing.  That is how bad the physical damage mods are.  Heck the faction damage mods are better since they affect base damage.

 

Pointman, my understanding of how two ammo mutators would work is based largely on what gun you have active (that is, is currently ready to fire).  That should take mutator precedence, and using two weapons with mutators isn't that bad.  In fact, whatever mutator you have active won't mutate ammo you need - so if you need pistol ammo and have the rifle active, you'll stick pick up pistol ammo as pistol ammo, but shotgun and sniper ammo will be rifle.  When you're full on pistol ammo, it will convert the pistol ammo drops into rifle ammo.  That said, it might be a bad tactical decision to bring two weapons that eat ammo like mad - you may be better off with one ammo spewer and one ammo efficient weapon.

 

And since I missed Garuger's post the first time around - you can use another elemental mod.  ANY elemental mod you aren't using would be better than the physical damage mod.  I'd recommend heat.

[PoinTmaN_BingA]

 

Pointman, my understanding of how two ammo mutators would work is based largely on what gun you have active...

Thanks man, that sounds logical enough

[Nadhua]

Give the mods the Accelerated Blast treatment so that that mod doesn't get nerfed: (scale off total damage, not individual damage)

this

[Cwierz]

because as it is now, the only reason why you'd ever equip a Physical Damage Mod - is that you're a new player and you don't have any Elementals yet. that's literally the only reason.

and/or you have accelerated blast. With the shotgun + damage mods and accelerated blast on my hek I am doing ~2400 puncture damage and I can then equip the elemental combo of my choice + ammo stock. 

 

So If we made other elemental mods like accelerated blast we could make a use for them? Maybe?

[Vaskadar]

They need to all be turned into 2 base cost with 10% per rank. That'll solve my problems with them. They currently have too high a cost for what they do.

Whoever balances the mods, if they're balancing anything else, needs to get a helper. They need a helper to do those things for them because balance changes really slowly in Warframe, for whatever reason. I'd volunteer, because I have experience with script and game design.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Vaskadar

[Killerdude8]

+30% of 95% base damage vs. +90% of 100% base damage... wow true difference. even for weapons like tigris, miter and flux, physical damage mods are still too bad

 

Did you know, Elemental Damage is calculated from your Physical damage types?

So you add that 30% to the Physical Damage, then Add the 90% from the Elemental, You'll end up with more Damage.

 

Fascinating. 

[rhoenix]

Did you know, Elemental Damage is calculated from your Physical damage types?

So you add that 30% to the Physical Damage, then Add the 90% from the Elemental, You'll end up with more Damage.

 

Fascinating.

I have not seen elemental damage increase a single digit when physical damage mods are used. Even on a weapon like the Drakgoon, where you add Sawtooth Clip for slashing damage, it doesn't alter the elemental damage whatsoever.

This is part of the problem, since Accelerated Blast (unlike other physical damage mods) at least adds a percentage of the weapon's total damage to Puncture damage, even if doing so doesn't alter the weapon's attached elemental damage any.

[taiiat]

and/or you have accelerated blast. With the shotgun + damage mods and accelerated blast on my hek I am doing ~2400 puncture damage and I can then equip the elemental combo of my choice + ammo stock. 

 

So If we made other elemental mods like accelerated blast we could make a use for them? Maybe?

there'd certainly be a use for them then. they'd give enough of a Damage Boost to be a bit niche, but actually useful.

 

as long as we remember to keep Physical Mods from boosting Elementals. because that would just ruin it all over again.

[Jin_Lightning]

I personally think that DE should lower the values of the elemental mods as a part of the solution (there should still be another component to the fix) because as it is now, even on a crit build weapon where a bunch of mod slots go to crit chance and damage, 2-3 elemental mods will make the elemental damage be 2-3 times as large as the entire physical damage, which makes the base distribution of physical damage types unimportant because over 50% of the damage isn't even one of the 3 physical damages.

I think the opposite would be better. Bring the physical dmg mods up, instead of nerfing the elemental mods.

Better synergy for endgame I think.

 

-Jin

[Eric1738]

Did you know, Elemental Damage is calculated from your Physical damage types?

So you add that 30% to the Physical Damage, then Add the 90% from the Elemental, You'll end up with more Damage.

 

Fascinating. 

if u dont understand such basic game mechanism, u should not talk... it embarrasses u

elemental mods use BASE total physical damage fyi

Edited January 29, 2014 by Eric1738

[Kyphe]

Did you know, Elemental Damage is calculated from your Physical damage types?

So you add that 30% to the Physical Damage, then Add the 90% from the Elemental, You'll end up with more Damage.

 

Fascinating. 

NO that is basically what this thread is about!

 

physical damage mods do not! increase elements, it does not stack, so it is pointless to use them unless you have a free slot and nothing actually useful to put in one

[Guest Shibboleet]

I think the opposite would be better. Bring the physical dmg mods up, instead of nerfing the elemental mods.

Better synergy for endgame I think.

 

-Jin

Guns already hit too hard >.>

Edited January 29, 2014 by Shibboleet

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Guns already hit too hard >.>

 

But is that because guns are already powerful, or because we can add 150% more damage to them in the form of a element? (not even getting into the ridiculous combo of serration + multi-shot + elemental mods)