How In Hell Oxium Is Lighter Then Air? Is This Even Possible?

[Mastikator2]

Graphene put into a honeycomb shape would have greater tensile strength than diamond, greater elasticity than rubber, and would be lighter than air.

The only problem is production. Make production trivial and Oxium is suddenly not even that impressive.

 

Edit- can people stop talking about "gravitons" as if it's proper science?

Edited January 30, 2014 by Mastikator2

[Ced23Ric]

Especially tetris! What a story!

 

Okay. You are right. Tetris is the superior shooter.

[CephalonShy]

Okay. You are right. Tetris is the superior shooter.

 

Doom had "amazing" story too, and wolfenshtein 3d, and Duke nukem, and shadow warrior, and Blood too.

[Phatose]

So we have a metal alloy (akin to aerogels [which are, actually, "foamed" up gels sans liquid]) that has all these properties. That in itself is not objectionable, because we have many substances already lighter than air - like I said above, hydrogen, helium, etc. - the issue is that a supposedly metal+X substance is both lighter than air, yet finds military application in a suicide drone.

 

We shouldn't assume it's utility in these suicide drones and its low density are directly related.  Perhaps it adsorbs large quantities of highly combustible or highly oxidizing gasses, and it's used as a booster to explosives for a thermobaric effect.  Perhaps it's highly reactive itself under the right conditions and is simply an explosive itself.  Perhaps it's an extreme insulator and it's used to shield the explosives in the drone from waste heat from the drone's thrusters. 

 

Trying to figure out how or why it's useful in those drones is basically equivalent to figuring out why a white, moldable play-dough like substance might be useful in military operations.  Maybe it's C4, maybe it's filling putty.  We don't have enough information to get anywhere remotely useful.

[Earthworm_Jim]

How is that so? I've been making them eat their own words so far. ;) They keep changing the subject and I keep bringing them back to where they were wrong. It takes two (or even three of you) to try and confuse their way out of this pitfall they've found themselves in unsuccessfully -and I'm only one person. If anything, I'm raping them.

You have still yet to provide any evidence that you are correct. Everything you have stated thus far has been "No, you're wrong, I am right, you do not know what you are talking about" in so many words.

 

Again, no. I know you wikipedia-ed this and saw the terms "stress-energy-tensors" on the same page as "time-space curvature" but that does not mean that matter exists in states SOLELY because of the influence of gravitons.

 

In no way, was it ever implied that way. Not by the scientific field, and certainly not by me. What you are saying is simple, and complete tosh.

 

Now; in order to spare everyone another bout of confusion. I managed to find an article that disproves you and your falsities entirely.

 

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/78820/is-it-true-to-say-space-time-curvature-leftrightarrow-matter

 

Gravity is not part of the standard model, gravitons were included to make it part of the model; the status is still being debated. DO NOT add your own properties to it if you haven't published a scientific journal about it. LOL. Post one with your name in credit about this new property you made - up, maybe I'll believe you then.

 

Now, before you try to act smart again by jamming nouns and verbs together that would drive any physicist into a berserk state. I'll let you know I mentioned that we should take this to PM before you get out of hand. 

 

P.S: English IS my first language and I've been better at it than you so far. At the very least, I've been trying to logically explain to you that your crapshoot attempts at confusing readers is wrong. 

I am not acting smart; I am actually explaining my reasoning for why I believe why I believe and providing evidence, which you are not. Where did I ever state that matter exists in states solely because of gravitons? You have been putting words in my mouth this entire time and then disproving the words you put in my mouth that I never said, instead of proving what I said wrong. Your entire argument has been straw man fallacy after straw man fallacy, followed up recently by an appeal to authority by stating I need to publish a scientific journal in order to add properties which I did not even add in the first place to a tenuous-at-best theory even among higher scientific circles.

 

You're convincing myself and others you have no idea what you are talking about by running circles and resorting to debate fallacies instead of actually addressing the points anyone is making. Since this is how things are going to be, I am done debating this with you. I have no intention of inflating your ego by enabling you to have pretend arguments with other people by way of creating more straw man fallacies to disprove.

[Celseus]

Because all major successfull games had stories. All of them.

 

Especially tetris! What a story!

 

Okay. You are right. Tetris is the superior shooter.

 

 Tetris IS still a successful game.

[PROteinxstack]

Guys, you all have it wrong.  The oxium itself is not lighter than air, but it lighter than air when given ENERGY.

[Celseus]

You have still yet to provide any evidence that you are correct. Everything you have stated thus far has been "No, you're wrong, I am right, you do not know what you are talking about" in so many words.

 

I am not acting smart; I am actually explaining my reasoning for why I believe why I believe and providing evidence, which you are not. Where did I ever state that matter exists in states solely because of gravitons? You have been putting words in my mouth this entire time and then disproving the words you put in my mouth that I never said, instead of proving what I said wrong. Your entire argument has been straw man fallacy after straw man fallacy, followed up recently by an appeal to authority by stating I need to publish a scientific journal in order to add properties which I did not even add in the first place to a tenuous-at-best theory even among higher scientific circles.

 

You're convincing myself and others you have no idea what you are talking about by running circles and resorting to debate fallacies instead of actually addressing the points anyone is making. Since this is how things are going to be, I am done debating this with you. I have no intention of inflating your ego by enabling you to have pretend arguments with other people by way of creating more straw man fallacies to disprove.

 

 

By stating that the redirection of gravitons will cause the alloy to disintegrate, as seen on most of your arguments on page 3 and 4. Staring with post #43.

 

Disintegrate, meaning that the matter/alloy is no longer in a solid, whole state.

 

It's not a strawman fallacy when everyone can just look back and see what you've said, -_-'". 

[BETAOPTICS]

It is possible, but one thing is not. It can not drop to the ground, it should float upwards. Slowly.

[Ced23Ric]

Doom had "amazing" story too, and wolfenshtein 3d, and Duke nukem, and shadow warrior, and Blood too.

 

Doom: You are the last survivor of a security force (UAC) on Mars (and moons in sequels). Monsters from hell are spawning after a teleport mishap, and you need to both drive them back and ultimately, take out their origin, by hoping through teleporters on Mars, Deimos and Phobos.

Wolfenstein 3D: You are an allied operative, charged with taking out Hitler and his staff. You fight your way through the SS and Wehrmacht.

Duke Nukem: Aliens have captured your chicks and invade Earth. Time to kick &#! and chew bubblegum (since no one steals your chicks and lives).

Shadow Warrior: You are Lo Wang, a mercenary working for Zilla Enterprises. Zilla proceeds to unleash demons in Japan, which you fight against.

Blood: You are the undead Caleb, fighting against other undead summon by the Cabal, who are worshipping the evil god Tchernobog. Over the course of the game, some of your allies ("The Chosen") die to the Cabal.

 

A little sad you forgot Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold. You are agent Robert Willis (aka Blake) Stone, tasked with finding and killing Dr. Pryus Goldfire, who is attempting to overtake Earth with aliens, mutants and brainwashed humans. You need to take out key STAR (his army) assets and stop him from invading Earth.

 

My argument still stands. All these games had story. Deciding not to partake in that is optional. But you cannot say that they didn't have story.

 

(S)He's a cute one.

 

Since you, too, cannot refrain from personal jabs and attempts to ridicule, you are no longer a viable voice in any discussion in my books. Your inane and, frankly, borderline sexist belittlement does little to assist you. Nevertheless, have a good day and enjoy playing.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Ced23Ric

[Celseus]

It is possible, but one thing is not. It can not drop to the ground, it should float upwards. Slowly.

 

Heheh, that's quite true.

[sp4rtan148]

lol they don't literally mean it's lighter than air, they mean the material is light and easy to work with XD

[Earthworm_Jim]

By stating that the redirection of gravitons will cause the alloy to disintegrate, as seen on most of your arguments on page 3 and 4. Staring with post #43.

 

Disintegrate, meaning that the matter/alloy is no longer in a solid, whole state.

 

It's not a strawman fallacy when everyone can just look back and see what you've said, -_-'". 

 

One more straw man for the road. Stating that redirecting the gravitons of an alloy would cause it to shear apart does not mean that the state of matter is reliant entirely on gravitons. This is a slippery slope fallacy. The state of matter is reliant on a lot of things; applying extreme heat can cause matter to 'disintegrate' in the context you've used but that does not mean that the state of matter is reliant only on heat.

[Celseus]

Doom: You are the last survivor of a security force (UAC) on Mars (and moons in sequels). Monsters from hell are spawning after a teleport mishap, and you need to both drive them back and ultimately, take out their origin, by hoping through teleporters on Mars, Deimos and Phobos.

Wolfenstein 3D: You are an allied operative, charged with taking out Hitler and his staff. You fight your way through the SS and Wehrmacht.

Duke Nukem: Aliens have captured your chicks and invade Earth. Time to kick &#! and chew bubblegum (since no one steals your chicks and lives).

Shadow Warrior: You are Lo Wang, a mercenary working for Zilla Enterprises. Zilla proceeds to unleash demons in Japan, which you fight against.

Blood: You are the undead Caleb, fighting against other undead summon by the Cabal, who are worshipping the evil god Tchernobog. Over the course of the game, some of your allies ("The Chosen") die to the Cabal.

 

A little sad you forgot Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold. You are agent Robert Willis (aka Blake) Stone, tasked with finding and killing Dr. Pryus Goldfire, who is attempting to overtake Earth with aliens, mutants and brainwashed humans. You need to take out key STAR (his army) assets and stop him from invading Earth.

 

My argument still stands. All these games had story. Deciding not to partake in that is optional. But you cannot say that they didn't have story.

 

Likewise, Warframe has a story. One that is better than at least one of those you mentioned. In my opinion.

 

Games are subject to the same scrutiny as other media, Ritchel. Suspension of disbelief has a certain threshold for everyone being subjected to such media, and while some people do not care to think about what they are mentally consuming, others are. Griping stories and plotlines are established by rules of their scenarios that are obeyed, which is called "consequential". If the rule is that humans are wizards, then they are wizards. If those wizards get their power from sacrificing blood, than that is their fuel. If then a character is introduced that has unlimited magic without a price to pay, he is breaking the rules of the scenario, and interrupted the "in-scenario" logic.

 

Oxium is the wizard without payment, and there is no explanation.

 

PS: Good games tell a story with you as the protagonist. If you don't have the demand for good story telling, I am sure you understand that your lack of demand does not apply to everyone. If you don't want to be immersed because you just shoot at things, you will have a hard time finding any major successful game since the beginning of PC gaming that would deliver.

Because all major successfull games had stories. All of them.

 

 

So how, in your own words, does the existence of Oxium and it's "lighter than air" properties in Warframe disqualify it from having a good story?

 

Here we are, trying to unravel the mysteries behind this element, in a forum, because we are THAT into this (Warframe)game. But I've played Nukem and I don't see myself going into their forums wailing for an explanation as to why he can pull a Rocket launcher out of his buttcheeks, THAT HOMES IN ON IT'S TARGET.

 

If anything, Warframe has a good story and is a good game, Oxium doesn't deny that.

 

If anything else, tetris is STILL a successful game and it doesn't have a story.

 

Your argument is moot ced23ric.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Celseus

[derclaw]

lol they don't literally mean it's lighter than air, they mean the material is light and easy to work with XD

"This lighter than air alloy " - thats how its called in event lol. So I asume its literally.

[Tostov]

Few things.

One: We're talking about something the orikin orignally designed. Like, the same people who build space stations where the laws of physics are null and void (i.e. The Void).

Two: Nowhere is it stated where in the drone the alloy is used. For all we know, it could be used as a charging chamber (like a chemical laser, I think) for the new pretty orange blasters that these ospreys have. And the reason it doesn't drop it when they suicide ram you? They're clearly overloading the power core and using it as an improvised explosive device.

[Celseus]

One more straw man for the road. Stating that redirecting the gravitons of an alloy would cause it to shear apart does not mean that the state of matter is reliant entirely on gravitons. This is a slippery slope fallacy. The state of matter is reliant on a lot of things; applying extreme heat can cause matter to 'disintegrate' in the context you've used but that does not mean that the state of matter is reliant only on heat.

 

Heat is an externally applied influence. It is different.

 

Redirection of gravitons is an internal property of this alloy.

 

Gravitons affect (or rather, are) how gravity works.

 

Stating that the alloy shears it's own molecules apart due to the redirection of gravitons (a trait this alloy has) and the many, many crappy false reasons you gave later, that would point that you meant that something not disintegrating by itself, is because it doesn't go against gravity.

 

#1 You failed to explain exactly why coherently. You provided some crapshoot argument, I proved you wrong with a Q&A on the subject.

 

#2 I explained that redirection of gravitons does NOT cause something to 'shear' itself.

 

#3 Disintegrating via redirection of gravitons is as good as saying the normal flow of gravitons is what keeps something from breaking into pieces. Via the same logic.

 

#4 You just ate your own words.

 

If this was a 'slippery slope fallacy', then you're the one who just poured oil on yourself and tumbled down a very, very steep hill. 

Edited January 30, 2014 by Celseus

[noneuklid]

Okay, I'm a male human, and therefore, I can be authoritative in stating certain things.

• The Warframe storyline is entirely ad-hoc and mostly nonsense. Seriously, Steve's outright said that their choice of setting has more to do with distinguishing them from their competitors than setting a particular stage.

 

• Its aesthetic, on the other hand, is essentially its own.  And I don't mean 'essentially' in the colloquial sense of 'mainly, but not quite.'  I mean that it is immediately identifiable and would be even if the game were (as Steve said) a dieselpunk retrofuturist cold war game.  And I promise the Lotus would still exist, even if she were a shadowy figure on your Wrist Communicator.

 

• Science is irrelevant to Warframe. This is a corollary to #1.  I know, it's heartbreaking -- I'm a hard science fiction fan as well. But the sci-fi aspects of this game are being used to explore social and psychological concepts, not technical ones.  It would be better to call it "transhumanist science fantasy," if you really want to label the genre.

 

• All of these are perfectly fine.  There's this conception running through the thread that it matters if Warframe is consistent with real-world physics, or the conventions of linear storytelling, or -- itself.  Be more zen.  You'll have a much easier time experiencing Warframe if you think of it like a crazy dream.  Things will change with no cogent rationale; trying to tie points together with strong cord is just going to strangle you.  You're along for the ride.  If it's fun, stay with it.  If it's not... well.  That's your choice.

 

Tenno,

reality has broken.

Survive.

[PettiTheYeti]

I'm surprised no one has even thought to post the actual weight of "air" in this discussion yet.

 

One cubic foot of "air" at sea level and 0 Celcius weighs .0807 pounds.

 

That's a 12x12x12 inch box, weighing less than 1/10th of a pound. 6 sheets of paper taped together to form a box, inside a vacuum, would still weigh more.

 

The only way oxium is lighter than air, is if it is an anti-gravity material.

[Ced23Ric]

Tenno,

reality has broken.

Survive.

 

I like your post.

 

I'm surprised no one has even thought to post the actual weight of "air" in this discussion yet.

 

Scroll up/flip back a little. I brought up the density, mass per volume, of air before.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Ced23Ric

[Brimir]

Smelting this thing and using in crafting  must be a technological nightmare without some hardcore magnetic tools.

 

And since we now have "thing" can float on its own in the atmosphere - can we now have reduculusly huge airships as enemies in open tiles? 

 

 

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

[noneuklid]

Only in the sense that you don't know how it works and can't figure it out readily by examining the item (or even necessarily figure out what or where the item is).  Not in the sense that 'it can do literally anything.'  Clarke has been horribly abused by that quote.

Edited January 30, 2014 by noneuklid

[Anatolius]

[PettiTheYeti]

Scroll up/flip back a little. I brought up the density, mass per volume, of air before.

 

If it was one of the novels posted in the previous pages, I skipped over it. TLDR. Lol.

[Ced23Ric]

 

Your video proves that helium is lighter than air and aerogel is not, unless it is filled with a substance that is lighter than air - such as helium. You basically just proved that any container for helium that is light enough to be below the delta of gravity between helium and air will not cause the construct of container and helium to float down, but float up or remain quasi-stationary. As an example, a baloon filled with helium is not lighter than air - the helium is, and the baloon's weight is not enough to hold the helium down. Substitute baloon with aerogel here and you have your video, in parts. Where it is not filled with helium, but air, it is heavier than air, as proven by being on the surface of things, attracted by more gravitational pull than air.

 

What would your point be?