Clan Weapons Obsolete. The Real Reason.

[Awazx]

There are many complaints on this forum respect the clan weapons are obsolete (except rifle Synapse , but now works a little worse ) .

 

Obviously, Supra , Flux Rifle and many other weapons are too weak in relation to the resources they cost.

 

And after pondering , I have come to the conclusion that DE weapons clan never placed above the weapons you can buy in the store ( even if they are supposedly superior weapons and costing significantly more resources ) .

 

The reason?

 

Suppose you have two open stores to their customers. In one of them , the products it sells are good and will bring revenue. At another store , the products are even better than in the first store , but these are free. Where customers acquire their products? Would it be a profitable business for you ?

 

This is the reason why the Flux Rifle or Supra (to name only two ) will never be updated ( or suffered directly nerf ) . The clan weapons can not beat weapons Store . If it were, everyone would have access to the best 'free' weapons and weapons sales in the store no longer be required .

 

It might be objected that I also earns revenue of indirect accessories ( Form and Potatoed ) . But there is a problem and is a serious problem :

 

if a weapon stands far above the rest , this weapon will become (probably ) in the top gun of the gamer, making it no longer feels need to purchase new weapons ( except those that can be achieved in more or less time playing ) .

 

This is the reason why this almost morbid mania for ' balance ' all weapons in a range of similar power is perceived. Unless the rifle SOMA ( an anomaly in Warframe ) and some weapon , all other are balanced with each other.

 

That's why nerf in Flux Rifle, the Synapse (the latter less because of the large number of complaints that awoke in the forums) and the Supra will never be updated. There can be ' too ' much less good weapons if they are free.

 

Thanks for reading . I use Google translate.

 

Yes, I am a user of a Flux Rifle .

Edited February 5, 2014 by Awazx

[SevenLetterKWord]

"Good" is relative; there is no one universal super-weapon.

 

Variation in weapon type (primary/secondary/melee), damage type, effective range, crowd control, ammo economy, stylistic appeal, and other such factors means that while a certain weapon might be optimal for a certain situation, no weapon is optimal for all situations.

 

Thus, there can exist as many "desirable" weapons as combinations of the aforementioned (and unmentioned) factors.

In other words, a single weapon cannot render obsolete any weapons outside of its own small and specific niche.

[ChaliceSoul]

Firstly, nice use of Google translate and I can understand what the post is about.

 

Secondly, you make a good point. Some Clantech weapons are outclassed by weapons you can buy in the shop. Only exception is Ogris and probably Ignis (Thinking of Embolist as well but that's debatable)

 

Thirdly, while it is a good point, do remember that all non-event exclusive weapons can be made without spending Platinum. Spending Platinum is at best, an alternative for the player who doesn't have as much time on his/her hands but have the disposable cash to do so.

[Awazx]

In other words, a single weapon cannot render obsolete any weapons outside of its own small and specific niche.

Just one example: SOMA obsoletes any rifle. SOMA is an anomaly in Warframe. 

 

Galatine ORTHOS and are considered the best melee weapons (a pesear be very different in gameplay). 

 

Data: All these top-tier weapons are not weapons clan; are weapons 'store'. ;)

Edited February 5, 2014 by Awazx

[SevenLetterKWord]

 

Just one example: SOMA obsoletes any rifle. SOMA is an anomaly in Warframe. 

 

Galatine ORTHOS and are considered the best melee weapons (a pesear be very different in gameplay). 

 

The question is: all these top-tier weapons are not weapons clan are weapons 'store'. ;)

 

Untrue.

Vectis. Ogris. Penta.

Dual Zoren. Glaive.

[Awazx]

Untrue.

Vectis. Ogris. Penta.

Dual Zoren. Glaive.

Vectis, Ogris and Penta are not Rifle weapons.

 

Dual Zoren < ORTHOS and Galatine.

 

¿Glaive? I have never seen anyone with a T3 Glaive. :)

 

Still, almost all the weapons you mentioned are weapons ... store. Is the reason for this writing.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Awazx

[Naqel]

Eh...

 

Yes weapon balance in warframe is crap.

 

No it's not crap for any underhanded reasons or as a part of some imaginary "power progression".

 

It's because we had power creep(everything they released got stronger and stronger), and when they did address it in Damage 2.0, they only made a "first pass" at it, whacking in the outstanding weapons, without doing much anything to the under performing ones.

Basically DE has so much work on their hands, they have to prioritize more pressing issues(like keeping the 12y-olds happy with new content).

[Eric1738]

how many ppl actually buy weapons from store with plat? to most players, store weapons are the same as clan tech weapons, aka bp+12-24hours build time. sure u may argue that DE earns from the few players(maybe 5%) who pays platinum, but honestly, from my experience, most of my platinum(master founder pack) goes to slots and cosmetic stuffs(and 2-3 warframes). also clan weapons are not bad in general, some needs buff, but mostly because of power creep. supra was the best automatic rifle when it was first introduced. flux rifle used to deal armor-ignore damage(very valuable in damage 1.0). while everyone saying soma is OP, DE should first fixed this bug: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/169324-headshot-bonus-damage/?hl=headshot. after that ppl will start to complain: soma/synapse is mediocre.

[Awazx]

how many ppl actually buy weapons from store with plat? 

 

We do not know. What we do know is that the best are in the store (not weapons clan). And sold for real money. And that's the reason why the clan arms will always be a step below the weapons 'store'.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Awazx

[Eric1738]

^that's incorrect. best shotgun is from void: boar prime, second best is an event weapon. best auto rifle is soma or synapse(clan). ogris is also nowhere worse than penta. lanka is still the highest DPH sniper. i could keep going. but i think u will refuse to understand it

[SevenLetterKWord]

Vectis, Ogris and Penta are not Rifle weapons.

 

Dual Zoren < ORTHOS and Galatine.

 

¿Glaive? I have never seen anyone with a T3 Glaive. :)

 

Still, almost all the weapons you mentioned are weapons ... store. Is the reason for this writing.

Oh, so I must've hacked or something to put Serration on my Vectis/Ogris/Penta, is that right?

They're all primaries, that's what matters.

If you narrow your consideration to only rifles, yeah sure, you're "right", but it's much less meaningful.

Embolist is the best continuous secondary, for instance.

Is this correct? Of course. Does it mean much? No, because the other continuous secondary, Spectra, sucks &amp;#&#33;.

 

Anyways, if you're claiming that the clantech weapons aren't more powerful than the public weapons, then yes, I agree.

But you're wrong to complain about it.

Very simply, nobody should ever feel obligated to join a clan just to acquire the best weapons.

[Awazx]

Is this correct? Of course. Does it mean much? No, because the other continuous secondary, Spectra, sucks &amp;#&#33;.

 

-It is necessary to lose respect?

 

Anyways, if you're claiming that the clantech weapons aren't more powerful than the public weapons, then yes, I agree.

 

-Exactly. That's what I'm claiming.

 

But you're wrong to complain about it.

 

-That's just your opinion.

 

Very simply, nobody should ever feel obligated to join a clan just to acquire the best weapons.

 

-That is too simplistic. In the same line of thinking that you then it would not be necessary to get the void 1000 Orthos prime.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2014 by Awazx

[DoomFruit]

Vectis, Ogris and Penta are not Rifle weapons.

 

Dual Zoren < ORTHOS and Galatine.

 

¿Glaive? I have never seen anyone with a T3 Glaive. :)

 

Still, almost all the weapons you mentioned are weapons ... store. Is the reason for this writing.

Zoren < Galatine? Perhaps, but the Zoren lets you go fast. Utility melee weapons are not to be discounted so lightly (however, the Scoliac lets you move as fast as the Zorens and does better damage while hitting multiple targets)

 

As for the Glaive, it rocks. It's my favourite melee weapon for damage - there's nothing quite like headshotting one toxic ancient, five runners and two chargers standing 10 metres away from you twice with one throw. Sure, the Galatine does more damage per hit, but the Glaive lets you hit twenty enemies at once from outside their own melee (or knockdown) range.

 

^that's incorrect. best shotgun is from void: boar prime, second best is an event weapon. best auto rifle is soma or synapse(clan). ogris is also nowhere worse than penta. lanka is still the highest DPH sniper. i could keep going. but i think u will refuse to understand it

Lanka? Against one type of enemy, perhaps. But the moment a second faction appears, it loses badly. The Vectis has versatility going for it - I think it's native puncture damage (the wiki is completely useless for this, only telling me "physical damage"), so you can stick magnetic and fire damage on to kill everything with one loadout. It's also hitscan, which is pretty useful against enemies which are moving at long range. The Lanka's innate wall penetration is, however, pretty neat.

[SevenLetterKWord]

-It is necessary to lose respect?

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I never had much respect for the Spectra.

 

-That's just your opinion.

Yes, that's my opinion. Identifying it as an opinion fails to further your point in any way.

 

-That is too simplistic. In the same line of thinking that you then it would not be necessary to get the void 1000 Orthos prime.

Too simplistic? Really?

First of all, it's not necessary to run the void a thousand times for Orthos Prime. Don't let your argument degrade into baseless exaggeration.

Secondly, you fail to explain how this principle is "simplistic". Do you think it ignore the details of a complex situation?

 

Allow me to restate my point:

Between clantech weapons and public weapons, I would rather have the strongest weapons be public.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Knaimhe

[Eric1738]

 

Lanka? Against one type of enemy, perhaps. But the moment a second faction appears, it loses badly. The Vectis has versatility going for it - I think it's native puncture damage (the wiki is completely useless for this, only telling me "physical damage"), so you can stick magnetic and fire damage on to kill everything with one loadout. It's also hitscan, which is pretty useful against enemies which are moving at long range. The Lanka's innate wall penetration is, however, pretty neat.

 i wasnt talking about versatility or anything else. lanka has the highest damage per hit(DPH), and that's fairly good already. physical damage of vectis spreads quite evenly, not innate puncture. if u r looking for a sniper with high ratio of puncture, snipetron vandal is the answer. vectis is very good but its major downside is the status chance. on the other hand, lanka excels in that.

btw my vectis uses primed chamber and i still cant say vectis is always better than lanka

[Wooffgang]

I'm Sorry to bring this to you but Lanka is the ultimate sniper rifle ing. You do realise ur comparing a weapon with primed chamber to 1 that doesn't use it because let me guess: you can fire 10 shots before reloading? Il give out my build on lanka to make this clear:

 

Grineer 2515 Radiation 2383 Viral 44% crt chance.

Corpus: 1191Toxin 3707 Magnetic 44% crt chance

Infested: 3707 corrosive 44% crt chance - 330% crt dmg

 

All 3 builds also contain: Speed trigger/Split Chamber/Sniper ammo mutation. Not to mention the 5m innate punch trough that let's you score up to 6 kills in a row. Now taking aside the Charged shot that. Lets see what sniper can dish out more damage. The lanka projectile is really fast. So the Vectis hitscan only matters for ppl that don't know to aim in front of where the target is going. I did not potato vectis becuse i dont think it has this much potential. Any one who has a heavy moded vectis please put down the numbers so we can have a straight up comparison.I doubt Vectis can win even the single target dmg comparison since the Crt dmg to the head because that is tken from a 71 puncture and 71 impact compared to the Lanka that scales from 250 base electric moded toward elemental.

 

But I do agree that most clan weapons are underwhelming

Edited February 5, 2014 by Kyryu

[Monolake]

 

There are many complaints on this forum respect the clan weapons are obsolete (except rifle Synapse , but now works a little worse ) .

 

Obviously, Supra , Flux Rifle and many other weapons are too weak in relation to the resources they cost.

 

And after pondering , I have come to the conclusion that DE weapons clan never placed above the weapons you can buy in the store ( even if they are supposedly superior weapons and costing significantly more resources ) .

 

The reason?

 

Suppose you have two open stores to their customers. In one of them , the products it sells are good and will bring revenue. At another store , the products are even better than in the first store , but these are free. Where customers acquire their products? Would it be a profitable business for you ?

 

This is the reason why the Flux Rifle or Supra (to name only two ) will never be updated ( or suffered directly nerf ) . The clan weapons can not beat weapons Store . If it were, everyone would have access to the best 'free' weapons and weapons sales in the store no longer be required .

 

It might be objected that I also earns revenue of indirect accessories ( Form and Potatoed ) . But there is a problem and is a serious problem :

 

if a weapon stands far above the rest , this weapon will become (probably ) in the top gun of the gamer, making it no longer feels need to purchase new weapons ( except those that can be achieved in more or less time playing ) .

 

This is the reason why this almost morbid mania for ' balance ' all weapons in a range of similar power is perceived. Unless the rifle SOMA ( an anomaly in Warframe ) and some weapon , all other are balanced with each other.

 

That's why nerf in Flux Rifle, the Synapse (the latter less because of the large number of complaints that awoke in the forums) and the Supra will never be updated. There can be ' too ' much less good weapons if they are free.

 

Thanks for reading . I use Google translate.

 

Yes, I am a user of a Flux Rifle .

 

Flawed logic, all the market weapons are easily built for free, especially by veterans who have loads of material reserves already. 

 

Even if you want market weapons to be good, make research weapons equaly good, no need to make them significantly better.  But now many of them are significantly worse, making them not worth the effort or even wasting a weapon slot. 

 

 

I'm Sorry to bring this to you but Lanka is the ultimate sniper rifle ing. You do realise ur comparing a weapon with primed chamber to 1 that doesn't use it because let me guess: you can fire 10 shots before reloading? Il give out my build on lanka to make this clear:

 

 

 

Vectis is slightly better per-shot  and much better DPS with exactly same mods as Lanka, no chambers. Lanka has (erratic) punch-thru but it's bad on moving targets so functionality is a moot point

. 

[DarcnyssWolfe]

Dpsframe.com

 

Use it, answer your questions, see how things fall.

 

PS: Vectis still beats Lanka in damage per hit with charged chamber even if you scarifice the Lanka's dps for maximum DPH, but that also requires you to use the correct bane mod at all times, and if you go full elemental you loose a great deal on DPH on lanka. And with primed chamber on vectis, the difference in max DPH jumps from 1.2k to 7k.

[Awazx]

Flawed logic, all the market weapons are easily built for free, especially by veterans who have loads of material reserves already. 

 

 

 

No 'flawed logic' in my arguments. The fact that weapons can be obtained free of charge that are not exempt also purchasable for real money. How hard is to understand the main point of my writing? 

 

I'll repeat: the clan weapons are inferior to the weapons shop and deliberately so. Not a 'design flaw'.

[Awazx]

Allow me to restate my point:

Between clantech weapons and public weapons, I would rather have the strongest weapons be public.

You are ' reiterating a point ' that is not related to the content of my writing.

 

This thread is not discussing which weapons are better or worse , this is not a thread about Orthos or Glaive .

 

Focus on the subject we are dealing with.

 

You yourself have acknowledged that the clan weapons are inferior to the acquirable weapons store. My writing ( repeat again ) tries to explain why.

 

In this forum many players have suffered nerf the Flux Rifle and Synapse . Many others ask Supra improvement .

 

I'm trying to say that these demands will NOT be granted simply because of not interested. Flux Rifle and Synapse are (were ) too good weapons in the game. A company is not interested in having top -tier weapons purchasable out outside the store .

 

This explains the nerf that wins the Flux Rifle, the nerfque was attempted with the Synapse and why gun Tier 7 ( Supra ) is less than an SOMA or other weapons even lower level .

Edited February 5, 2014 by Awazx

[Eric1738]

Dpsframe.com

 

Use it, answer your questions, see how things fall.

 

PS: Vectis still beats Lanka in damage per hit with charged chamber even if you scarifice the Lanka's dps for maximum DPH, but that also requires you to use the correct bane mod at all times, and if you go full elemental you loose a great deal on DPH on lanka. And with primed chamber on vectis, the difference in max DPH jumps from 1.2k to 7k.

lol that website never consider the "real" attack speed etc. it's flawed, so dont trust it, only take it as a reference. if u actually used primed chamber vectis, u wont be so confident to say vectis>lanka. vectis needs reload/attack speed or shred otherwise it's too slow to use. fast hand/speed trigger makes u fire a bit faster(around 1.6sec per shot), but shred provide valuable punch through, so i choose shred. then 2 elemental, 2 crti mods, serration, multishot and primed chamber. that's what a primed chamber vectis looks like. lanka on the other hand could use heavy calibre and no need punch through mod. with speed trigger lanka could fire about 1 time per second. plus 2 sec per 10 shot, that is overall 1.2 sec per shot.

 

dont trust some unofficial website, try it in game, coz we r playing warframe not that website.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Eric1738

[Monolake]

 

No 'flawed logic' in my arguments. The fact that weapons can be obtained free of charge that are not exempt also purchasable for real money. How hard is to understand the main point of my writing? 

 

I'll repeat: the clan weapons are inferior to the weapons shop and deliberately so. Not a 'design flaw'.

 

You have no point, weaker clan weapons don't force anyone to buy shop weapons for platinum, everything is available for free, except slots. Only people who might buy weapons for plat are noobs and they have no access to clan stuff anyway, they have no choice between clan and not-clan weapons they dont even know about them. Clan weapons are non-factor in their descision to purchase anything. 

[Awazx]

 

You have no point, weaker clan weapons don't force anyone to buy shop weapons for platinum, everything is available for free, except slots. Only people who might buy weapons for plat are noobs and they have no access to clan stuff anyway, they have no choice between clan and not-clan weapons they dont even know about them. Clan weapons are non-factor in their descision to purchase anything. 

Sure : 'all' (or almost everything) is available for ' free ' . So why is also sold in the store? Simple: because DE having to live on something , and know that many players pay platinum before wasting time looking for things in the game.

 

Therefore, the fact that it is available for free, does not invalidate my argument. Clan weapons are inferior to the weapons shop.

 

Have you ever wondered why these inconsistencies in the game? Why Tier 6 or 7 weapons and require the investment of significant resources and time are lower than those achieved in weapons that can store or playing ?

 

Just does not make sense. It makes no sense that a weapon is less than Tier 7 Tier 6 weapon . Is it a design flaw ?

 

It's not . DE does not know what to do with the clan weapons. His solution was to make nerf Flux Rifle and Synapse in an attempt to remove them as a serious option for advanced players . Also , DE ignores players who take a Bluff Supra , for the simple reason that it would make the gun ' too good ' .

 

The solution has been found DE is trying to find a balance in all weapons. Do not you see what you can get on the market? With rare exceptions , all weapons are mediocre ( average = midpoint) .

 

No real weapons are launching top -tier (eg, Tier weapons according to the player) . What is being done is that all weapons are only differences in gameplay, not in terms of performance .

 

What you get with that, is that :

 

1) the player never has in his possession a weapon ( or more ) other ultimate weapons .

 

2) is forced to the constant search for weapons in the game ( harvest).

 

3) Or directly incites ( does not require ) players to spend on new weapons platinum .

Edited February 5, 2014 by Awazx

[Fl4m3Ph03n1x]

My comment on the subject:

 - Last time I checked (update 11.5) the synapse was outperforming the Soma. Now I know the the Synapse has been nerfed, but the damage they deal is still very close, neck to neck, and I still believe that a maxed synapse will still beat a Soma any time of the day because it has less range, and the DEVs are all about rewarding proximity fights with more damage. Simply put, maxed synapse > maxed soma. If this argument holds true, you have no reason in your claims. However, for the sake of the argument, let us assume that my argument is wrong.

 

 - If the Soma is in deed the best weapon in the game, outperforming all others in DPS, then it is a shop weapon. A shop weapon which you can get for free, just like the Synapse. People have previously mentioned that only noobs buy new weapons directly from the shop. That is true. Besides noobs, professional players also do it, in order to get the best reviews as fast as possible and therefore earn youtube money from them. For the vast majority of players, they simply get it for free. This is an undeniable fact. The DEV is not forcing you to buy the weapons.

 

 - Is the Soma really the best weapon in the game? Is it silent for stealth? Does it deal massive AOE damage? Can you snipe with it? No. Warframe has different weapons with different attributes. Soma may be at the top of the DPS chart, but depending on your role you can, and should have, different weapons with different characteristics. Most warframe players do have more than one weapon in their slots. They often have a weapon dedicated to each game play style. Your point 1 is therefore invalid.

 

 - Is a player forced to constantly acquire weapons in the game? Sure, if you want to reach mastery level 13 you will eventually have to play with most (if not all) weapons. But Soma only requires mastery rank 6 remember? This is extremely easy to achieve and does not require that much time. Not to mention all the events (like the oxyum recent one) that give you bonus XP.

 

 - Are the DEVs inciting you to waste plat on weapons? Not really. Unless you are a professional that needs to review a weapon in less than 72hours and then make a video out of it, you have on excuse to waste platinum on weapons. This argument has no sense whatsoever.

 

 - Are the game weapons completely unbalanced? yes, I agree. I have recently created a post about snipers that addresses the problems we face while using them, as well as some possible suggestions:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/172577-will-snipers-ever-have-a-decent-place-in-warframe/
But claiming that DEVs are unbalancing weapons on purpose to have you waste plat, makes no sense at best, specially when they have given proof to listening and implementing community suggestions in pretty much every level of warframe.

[Kyphe]

i can not agree with the claim that clan tech is sub standard to keep people purchasing store guns.

 

I have all the store primary guns and i did not spend a single plat to get them.

 

I only spend plat on slots and the odd potato and some cosmetics and some times buy mods in trade.

 

The people who will buy guns in store for plat are the same people who will buy forma and orakin cells and rush build clan tech, the people like me who will grind store weapons will grind clan too.