Frosty Nerf Questions

[EnderDragon1324]

I have been out of warframe for about 1 month and now I am hearing about these Frost nerfs. What exactly happened?

Cause I like my Trench coat, CD player head warframe :(

[Angius]

Snowglobe disappears after literally 3 seconds when on high level missins. It got like 3500 health AND a timer, so...

 

They buffed Avalanche and added AOE to Freeze though.

[ChaoticVice777]

I have been out of warframe for about 1 month and now I am hearing about these Frost nerfs. What exactly happened?

Cause I like my Trench coat, CD player head warframe :(

 

Snow Globe has been nerfed to have 3500 HP at max rank along with the 30 second duration (might be affected by Power Strength?), which means it doesn't scale anymore. What is utility?

 

Freeze is apparently supposed to work like Fireball (or was it Fire Blast?), but it seems like there's bugs to the move. If not, then enemies still thaw out if they take any HP damage.

 

Ice Wave has extra utility due the higher freeze damage and insta-slowdown.

 

Finally, Avalanche is now the go-to move for Frost, since the move can have a very wide range and a decent duration after getting the right mods. Essentially, the utility is high crowd control, which other Warframes can do better.

Edited February 9, 2014 by ChaoticVice777

[TankHunter678]

They buffed Avalanche and added AOE to Freeze though.

Eh, I personally feel the Avalanche "buff" was more of a nerf. Since it would CC everyone affected into a panic state where they stop running around and shooting during the entire cast animation. Since it is now faster the CC duration is shorter. The damage buff was not much of value.

 

The buff to Freeze by giving it AoE is not much, its a 50% proc and the freeze effect still breaks on the first damage tick. A real buff would of been to make the Freeze effect not break on damage but it times out naturally. This would of made freeze a great ability as a disable. Then give it the AoE but with 100% proc so that you do not need perfect accuracy. You could just splash them near their feet.

[LordMidnightX]

also ice wave got a very nice buff is cast speed and in proc chance

[NeopetsMaster4432]

If you use power strength mods, you won't notice much of a difference in Frost's Snowglobe until you're fighting like level 65+ enemies. At that point, you'll need to cast it around 3 or 4 times per wave.

People are overeating about the nerf, so I'd suggest trying him out again to see if you'll enjoy him after the changes.
Now he is also more effective at being stuff other than an insta-win-shield of Defense maps.

[razorbak92]

Why did you nerf Frost, DE?

[Cryozar]

There's the possibility of a fix to improve the new snowglobe since there was a feedback thread about it in the workshop portion of forums.

While people are removing their Frosts, some people are more focused on using the buffed avalanche for the moment, so I'd say wait it out for now and don't count him completely out just yet

[xoxcloudxox]

ice wave is too narrow, it goes completely in a straight line, its hardly a wave..

[Kaiser_Suoh]

In short, Snow Globe is useless now.

[Seasonsofclarity]

In short, discover for yourself whether you enjoy the frame or not, and don't listen to whiney kids.

 

Personally, Frost remains my go-to frame for everything but Void Survival (Rhino) and fast paced Invasions (Volt).

[Temfist]

in short, a lot of players were overly dependent on snow globe.

 

Prove me wrong, but if they weren't so dependent on snow globe, they wouldn't be whining so much. I just added more power strength to Frost, and now he's more fun then ever. He has now replaced Rhino as my favorite, and I only use Rhino when I need to get affinity for melee, or when I need to resist poison/CC effects.

[KuroNekoXlll]

in short, a lot of players were overly dependent on snow globe.

 

Prove me wrong, but if they weren't so dependent on snow globe, they wouldn't be whining so much. I just added more power strength to Frost, and now he's more fun then ever. He has now replaced Rhino as my favorite, and I only use Rhino when I need to get affinity for melee, or when I need to resist poison/CC effects.

well i still firmly believe snowglobe was all frost ever had going for em and he lost that .-.

soooo hes worth scrapping imho

 

why would i use any of his other skills when i might as well use another frame

but snowglobe was somethin no other frame had 

[ChaoticVice777]

in short, a lot of players were overly dependent on snow globe.

 

Prove me wrong, but if they weren't so dependent on snow globe, they wouldn't be whining so much. I just added more power strength to Frost, and now he's more fun then ever. He has now replaced Rhino as my favorite, and I only use Rhino when I need to get affinity for melee, or when I need to resist poison/CC effects.

 

Yes and no.

 

The main reasons why players used Snow Globe are utility and the lack of utility in Frost's other abilities. It's less dependence and more of being forced into learning to deal with a one trick pony.

 

Snow Globe was definitely overpowered, but it also didn't have to be nerfed to the point where there's no point using the power in early content because enemies are easy to kill and using the power in late content because enemies tear through too easily. Furthermore, is there even a reason to have both HP and duration values? 

 

Update 12 has addressed some of the issues regarding the lack of utility, now Snow Globe needs to regain the utility. Best suggestions I've seen so far include regeneration while not taking damage, damage mitigation, and HP scaling to enemy levels.

Edited February 10, 2014 by ChaoticVice777

[HillsAndTheSea]

Snow Globe was definitely overpowered, but it also didn't have to be nerfed to the point where there's no point using the power in early content because enemies are easy to kill and using the power in late content because enemies tear through too easily. Furthermore, is there even a reason to have both HP and duration values? 

 

you have to remember DE only balances the game until level 38 enemies, anything past that is irrelevant to them.

 

that being said the duration is to keep the abliity balanced in the early game, and the actual health value can easily be changed by DE if we provide feedback, its not like they said "it will be 3500 health and we are never looking at frost again". 

 

in short, the main issue now is people have to actually change their frost builds to include power strength, but building for power also makes ice wave and avalanche much better, so in short, frost is probably better overall with this change. the current maximum for snow globe is ~8400 hp which is more than enough to handle level 38 mobs

 

either way we all free to give constructive suggestions for a new value for the globe that seems sufficent, and im sure if they will re-evalute it 

[BadAimbot]

I had to change my build to incorporate Power Strength, and now I have to cast Snow Globe more often. I am yet to run out of Energy doing so but apparently Frost is dead or something.

Edited February 10, 2014 by BadAimbot

[ChaoticVice777]

you have to remember DE only balances the game until level 38 enemies, anything past that is irrelevant to them.

 

that being said the duration is to keep the abliity balanced in the early game, and the actual health value can easily be changed by DE if we provide feedback, its not like they said "it will be 3500 health and we are never looking at frost again". 

 

in short, the main issue now is people have to actually change their frost builds to include power strength, but building for power also makes ice wave and avalanche much better, so in short, frost is probably better overall with this change. the current maximum for snow globe is ~8400 hp which is more than enough to handle level 38 mobs

 

either way we all free to give constructive suggestions for a new value for the globe that seems sufficent, and im sure if they will re-evalute it 

 

So? You're basically forced to spam Snow Globe to keep the protection intact since even Level 30+ enemies tear through the 3500 HP per Snow Globe far too easily.

 

As for boosting power strength, how many people are able to use a maxed Blind Rage? Furthermore, your power efficiency then gets wrecked, which means you have to at least put Fleeting Expertise, which then wrecks your duration. So finally, you end up with +129% power strength, +35% power efficiency (if you add Streamline), and -60% power duration. Now your Snow Globe only lasts 12 seconds, so even if you geared up to handle mobs at that level, you're still forced to spam.

 

I'm well aware that tweaking will occur; refer to the suggestions that I prefer the most at the moment. Are you insinuating that I'm not giving constructive suggestions?

 

At the moment, for better or worse, Frost can now diverge successfully (?) into two different builds: Power Strength or Power Range. Strength improves Frost's defensive and offensive capabilities, while Range improves Frost's caster abilities and overall utility.

EDIT: As for suggestions, this is the General Discussion. Suggestions involve discussion, but discussions don't necessarily involve suggestions.

Edited February 10, 2014 by ChaoticVice777

[TankHunter678]

As for boosting power strength, how many people are able to use a maxed Blind Rage? Furthermore, your power efficiency then gets wrecked, which means you have to at least put Fleeting Expertise, which then wrecks your duration. So finally, you end up with +129% power strength, +35% power efficiency (if you add Streamline), and -60% power duration. Now your Snow Globe only lasts 12 seconds, so even if you geared up to handle mobs at that level, you're still forced to spam.

Maxed Blind Rage with Focus gets you that 129% power strength, throw in maxed Steamline with 4 Fleeting Expertise then throw in Continuity and Constitution. This creates a ~8000 HP shield, ~35 energy cost, 32.4 sec duration snowglobe. This leaves space for Snowglobe and your choice of Vitality or Redirection.

 

Which will still get shredded in seconds at T3, Ceres, or Pluto level content.

 

Frost is a battle caster now. The amount of effort needed to make snowglobe spammable, strong, and last is simply too much, and it is nowhere near enough for late game content and Frost sacrifices too much to do it. Power range just makes snowglobe worse because it increases the amount of area that absorbs the damage.

[EnderDragon1324]

So, the snow globe has HP like decoy now? If so then T-T I do find avalanche more fun than ever now though :D

[BadAimbot]

Maxed Blind Rage with Focus gets you that 129% power strength, throw in maxed Steamline with 4 Fleeting Expertise then throw in Continuity and Constitution. This creates a ~8000 HP shield, ~35 energy cost, 32.4 sec duration snowglobe. This leaves space for Snowglobe and your choice of Vitality or Redirection.

 

Which will still get shredded in seconds at T3, Ceres, or Pluto level content.

 

Frost is a battle caster now. The amount of effort needed to make snowglobe spammable, strong, and last is simply too much, and it is nowhere near enough for late game content and Frost sacrifices too much to do it. Power range just makes snowglobe worse because it increases the amount of area that absorbs the damage.

 

I did several T3 Mobile Defenses with a Rank 6 Blind Rage and had no issues whatsoever. It was even a 2 man party. See? I can throw in anecdotal evidence too.

[Seasonsofclarity]

Seriously, are people just camping inside the Snowglobe for the entirety of their Defense runs?

 

I run with 3 others on Tier 3 regularly, and the fact is that they handle most groups before they even start firing on the Snowglobe.  It's there as incidental coverage at this point.

 

Find new things to complain about already.  This is a dead horse.

[fatpig84]

I wish avalanche wasn't nerfed.

The shorter cast time actually reduced frost CC abilities even more as enemies are frozen for a shorter time.

 

 

It needs to at least have a 9 to 10 second frozen state on your enemies, AFTER cast.

Because as it stands right now, other frames have better utility and CC than Frost.

Edited February 10, 2014 by fatpig84

[ChaoticVice777]

Seriously, are people just camping inside the Snowglobe for the entirety of their Defense runs?

 

I run with 3 others on Tier 3 regularly, and the fact is that they handle most groups before they even start firing on the Snowglobe.  It's there as incidental coverage at this point.

 

Find new things to complain about already.  This is a dead horse.

 

Camping inside the Snow Globe is nowhere near as mandatory as it is now.

 

In any case, how is this issue a dead horse when it just appeared with Update 12? This is literally a new topic to complain about.

[Vahlak]

The solution to globe having health now? 

 

 Kill the enemies shooting it faster.  Not hard with the new avalanche and a group.

[ChaoticVice777]

The solution to globe having health now? 

 

 Kill the enemies shooting it faster.  Not hard with the new avalanche and a group.

 

Or you can fix the mechanics behind Snow Globe? Every build or tactic that Frost uses is basically a band-aid solution for the issues with Snow Globe. Why leave the duration intact if the developers are going a health mechanic to reduce the feel of permanence?

[Nyxem]

Eh, I personally feel the Avalanche "buff" was more of a nerf. Since it would CC everyone affected into a panic state where they stop running around and shooting during the entire cast animation. Since it is now faster the CC duration is shorter. The damage buff was not much of value.

Oddly enough, Avalanche now lasts a really long time with ANY sort of power range increase. Around 5 seconds.The damage is delayed. and enemies stay frozen for a long time. Always ran Stretch on Frost, so I noticed the change immediately... and loved it. Hope it's not a bug.

 

Until I saw another Frost with normal Avalanche, I thought it always froze enemies for 5 seconds after the changes.

Doesn't scale more with even more range - tested with Stretch and Overextended. With just Narrow Minded, it's the "normal" nonexistent freeze duration. (Edit: tested with Narrow Minded + Overextended balancing out the range, as well as +7.5% range from Stretch.)

Edited February 10, 2014 by Nyxem