Opinion From A First-Day Player

[V0LK]

You see? Do you see? You alienating new players!

[Venarge]

You see? Do you see? You alienating new players!

Hmm, OP gets killed by infested and is frustrated about the game... But his actual playstyle is the problem. How does that alienate new players?

[V0LK]

Well he's a new player. He was raped by stunlocking chargers and he quitted. I'm shure he's not the only one. Hardcore stuff with forced co-op must be in the endgame, not from the start.

If I didn't play this game before 7.0 and do not had hopes for some tweaks I'd dropped it myself.

[UnderYourBed]

There's also the awful scarcity of info in-game. Stuff like this would probably be alleviated if players were given tips on how to deal with certain enemies. DE really should hurry up with that codex. The general cheapness of the Infested is a rude and likely a frustrating awakening for new players.

[Notso]

Well he's a new player. He was raped by stunlocking chargers and he quitted. I'm shure he's not the only one. Hardcore stuff with forced co-op must be in the endgame, not from the start.

If I didn't play this game before 7.0 and do not had hopes for some tweaks I'd dropped it myself.

He was killed by stunlocks because, as a new player who'd never played the game before, he picked, out of three options, the only frame which says "for advanced players" in the description. Bravo OP, bravo.

[krisp]

This thread is full of 2 kinds of people:

- motivational white knights

- condescending elitist wannabes

Can YOU spot them?

[chuuburg]

All this happened because DE changed progression to pure RNG in U7.

New players have no chance to progress until they grind out the easier maps in Mercury at least 30 times.

Edited March 24, 2013 by chuuburg

[Xrylene]

Hey OP, if you're still around and haven't given up yet, I'd like to give you some advice, coming from another Loki player who started just a few days ago. Advice may not be what you want, but until the game gets polished more, advice may be what you need.

First off, you need to know your enemy, something the game clearly didn't give you an opportunity to learn. The zergling/dog infested have a random chance of stunning you, and deal fairly high melee damage, and Loki is the squishiest warframe in the game. The two more human sized and looking ones are runners and leapers, runners will charge towards you and then explode if they get too close or if you shoot them, which is also a astun, and leapers will crouch and then leap at you which is a knockdown. Then there's the ancients, the big but normal looking ones that create green pulses every now and then heal with each pulse, but it's fairly small, they aren't a threat at all unless you let them hit you with their relatively slow charge. The dark ones with the green cloud around them deal damage through your shields, and that cloud remains a few seconds after they die, so don't get close.

So looking at what you're facing, one thing should become pretty clear. If you are in melee with them, they will mess you up. So the answer, is to deal with them at range at all times, only using melee if you have a decoy out or are stealthed. For the chargers(the zergling dog things), one of your best bets is to jump onto higher terrain if you are by yourself, their pathfinding isn't very good and as far as I know they can't jump, so from there you can start picking them off, switching to runners and leapers if you spot them. If Ancients get too close to you, switch locations, you should be able to outrun the chargers if you sprint. To deal with the ancient infested, shoot them in the limbs, not the head, because their limbs are their equivalent of a headshot. If you intend to melee, only do it when you are stealthed if you can help it, you will deal double damage, meaning that if you stealth you can generally take on a large group of chargers so long as you focus each down one by one. Stealth is also handy for taking out ancient healers, stealthed charged melee swings will cut them up in only a few swings. Just be sure to avoid meleeing the toxic ones at all costs.

If all else fails, get a buddy, an extra person to cover you against the stuns fromt he infested can help a lot. Be warned though that against the Grineer(the marine looking guys in the othe rmissions), if you have more than one player, they might use these electrical stun grenades that act as like a ten second stun. If you or a friend gets hit by them, it will warn all other squad members, they need to be protected most of the time for one, and two if you look on their body there will be the grenade, which you can shoot off to end the stun.

Edit: Oh, and since when is Loki a support Warframe? saw a few people saying that in the thread. Not having direct damage abilities doesn't make you support, especially when you have Decoy to attack unhindered, and Invisibility to tear up worlds with melee. In my group, my melee based Loki is easily the highest damage in every case but against Corpus, because then the Volt destroys everything with Overload.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Xrylene

[zyl0x]

So, I decided to come check back in the AM, when all the reply-clicking, kneejerkers have had their say, and the normal people who play this game have woken up and taken a look at the forums.

Just want to say that about half your community has some serious agressiveness issues towards new players. To you I say: good luck funding this entire product yourselves. New players need to be eased into the hard stuff. If I had known what any of those enemies had been doing, I would have at least been warned. It was not apparent to me that I was being stunned - only that I was being murdered. And I seem to be getting a lot (read: way too much) flakk over picking Loki. It says "desired by advanced players". DESIRED. Not FOR. To me, that meant that he has some pretty advanced tactics that are available. You know, easy to learn, hard to master? Why would they give new players an advanced selection? I picked one of the three - melee, ranged dps, and support. I like playing support - oh my god, I guess I should just go kill myself right now!

To the other people, I appreciate some recognition that my scenario is not ideal. It's good to hear (from too few of you, sadly) that it's not all that hard once you get some better equipment. Unfortunately, the toxcitity of the playerbase is going to keep me from reinstalling this game for now. I really hope these people get a frakking grip on their anger and xenophobia, because like it or not, without any new players, this game is going to go the way of Hellgate London (which this game kind of reminds me of.)

All the best.

[TheErebus.]

Hm.

[Narog-1]

have not seen any sign that the devs even care about the feedback after U7 and i really dont think the players that say everything is alright just adapt to new mechanics are helping .

you can jump into boxes and deal with the infested much safestly

[Venarge]

have not seen any sign that the devs even care about the feedback after U7 and i really dont think the players that say everything is alright just adapt to new mechanics are helping .

you can jump into boxes and deal with the infested much safestly

Most of them are at pax. They got other things to do right now ^^

Most people are just angry because someone switched the god mode button off..... I know its hard for new players. but the powerful internet can help you..... I mean. Before I chose my frame, I watched vids about the different styles. and at least one or two vids about the different races ingame... ^^

Best would be this: Give new player 14 days of boosts for health shield exp or whatever to make it easier for beginners.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Venarge

[UnderYourBed]

Most would just look at a gameplay video or two, and maybe look up the races/classes (Warframes in this case) available jumping in, not do a full research.

[Venarge]

Most would just look at a gameplay video or two, and maybe look up the races/classes (Warframes in this case) available jumping in, not do a full research.

Ah sorry. I didnt meant to say that people should watch every vid. But at least a little gameplay to see what the player is capable off and what awaits him on the enemy side ^^

[V0LK]

Those videos you talking about could be of high-lvl players doing awesome stuff before 7.0. Which doesn't do any justice to current state of the game.

[Yehlan]

When i first started I was doing 1 level a day because I played solo and would run out of revives just doing the first map. The fact I was getting face smashed and was still having fun is why I keep playing it now and why I chose to support the game. I hope they never make this game easy for new players anymore than they make it easy for experiences players.

By far a codex would be amazing and would probably help alot more, and yes a toning down of mercury may be in order after U7 due to a lack of passive leveling bonuses. Ultimately either keep grinding content you can solo or jump into online and play with others which is by far WAY more fun than solo anyways.

As for the loki I have no idea, I read the advanced player part and decided id go with the excalibur then change later if I needed the extra challenge (didnt realize at the time you couldnt change) but no regrets on my choice because I still had a ton of fun getting murdered.

[Venarge]

Those videos you talking about could be of high-lvl players doing awesome stuff before 7.0. Which doesn't do any justice to current state of the game.

What does playstyle and enemy races have to do with the update -.- Nothing. Its just showing the skills of different frames and some enemy types.....

[TheChaffeemancer]

What does playstyle and enemy races have to do with the update -.- Nothing. Its just showing the skills of different frames and some enemy types.....

Because you can no longer mod stack and a lot of frame related things got super-nerfed, therefore gameplay before the update was faster and more "you're an unkillable awesome man."

[V0LK]

What does playstyle and enemy races have to do with the update -.- Nothing. Its just showing the skills of different frames and some enemy types.....

Nothing indeed, but from watching Loki goes invisible and does four-digit crits, inexperienced player could think he can do it too. No, you can't buddy, even at 30lvl. Not since u7.

Update has a tremendous influence on playstyle. Where I could jump into horde of enemies, blind them and shred to pieces before 7.0, now I have to hide behind corner, shoot a bit, regenerate shields, shoot a bit more. FUN FUN FUN! Because I got only one power max mod and not a single shield mod.

[V0LK]

Because you can no longer mod stack and a lot of frame related things got super-nerfed, therefore gameplay before the update was faster and more "you're an unkillable awesome man."

Also this. I don't want another tactical shooter. I want to be a one-man-ninja-army of pure awesomeness. And if I want challenge there should be high-lvl end-game locations, where Tennos will need to cooperate.

[Nitresco]

This thread is full of 2 kinds of people:

- motivational white knights

- condescending elitist wannabes

Can YOU spot them?

No, but I spot that guy who pretends to take a narrator standpoint and output what he considers to be a witty comment in hopes of gaining respect from others in the thread.

[Blatantfool]

I love how a new player comes here to ask about some pretty basic problems and the first thing this community does is lash at him for it.

This game is not currently presented to players in a way to teach them to play properly. The problems this guy had are the problems that we - as more experienced players - should already know damn well exist.

During character select you have an extremely half-assed introduction to three basic frames - Excal, Volt and Loki. All you have to go by for Volt and Loki is some bullS#&$ flavor text and some crap Lotus reads off at you. This information is absolutely useless and there is no option to try each frame out to see their abilities and have their purpose explained in a sort of enhanced tutorial.

It is inviting situations like this, where a player makes a choice based on poor information and gets stuck when he reaches a point where his frame isn't able to play to its strengths.

The fact that some of you guys are willing to lash out at a new player frustrated by an incomplete/inadequate tutorial is silly as hell. You are an embarassment.

[Nitresco]

I love how a new player comes here to ask about some pretty basic problems and the first thing this community does is lash at him for it.

This game is not currently presented to players in a way to teach them to play properly. The problems this guy had are the problems that we - as more experienced players - should already know damn well exist.

During character select you have an extremely half-assed introduction to three basic frames - Excal, Volt and Loki. All you have to go by for Volt and Loki is some bullS#&$ flavor text and some crap Lotus reads off at you. This information is absolutely useless and there is no option to try each frame out to see their abilities and have their purpose explained in a sort of enhanced tutorial.

It is inviting situations like this, where a player makes a choice based on poor information and gets stuck when he reaches a point where his frame isn't able to play to its strengths.

The fact that some of you guys are willing to lash out at a new player frustrated by an incomplete/inadequate tutorial is silly as hell. You are an embarassment.

I think the whole "for Advanced players" warning on Loki is fair warning.

[Blatantfool]

I think the whole "for Advanced players" warning on Loki is fair warning.

Putting 'For Advanced players' is inadequate. Games throw that sort of S#&$ at you all the time and it rarely matters.

In Tera Online one of the easiest to play classes in the game is labeled 'For Advanced Players'. Console games do it a lot too. What is an 'Advanced player' choice doing in Warframe account setup anyway? You don't make multiple characters. You see that screen once. That screen is just for a starter frame. It isn't like many of the advanced players are going to waste time rolling a completely new account.

It is a S#&$ty way to explain the frame and doesn't prepare the player properly for getting into the action. They should expand it to actually show Loki in action. A video of each skill being used 'properly' with a short and sweet explaination would more then suffice.

Warframe doesn't really have a lot of problems with 'This is the newbie frame' or 'This is the Veteran' frame. Anyone is good at any frame when they use the frame right. It manages to stay within the realm of 'Skill goes in, results come out' as far as actual gameplay. Yes, Excalibur is easier to use then Loki, but you get the same results from both anyway. It isn't like Loki players have to try twice as hard.

For a Beta that introduction to Warframe is fine, expecting a full tutorial in a mostly incomplete game is foolish. But it is going to need changing and it WILL mislead players until it is fixed. These players are going to turn to the community, likely this forum, and it is the stupidest thing in the world to antagonize and insult them for something they can't realistically expect to have helped.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Notso]

I think the whole "for Advanced players" warning on Loki is fair warning.

I would agree with that. Maybe I simply don't have the self-posses sense of superioty some gamers have [you know where they jump in to a game on Inferno difficulty without ever having played the game before and then complain it's too hard] but if I start a new game and I see one option that says for beginners [Excalibur] and one that says for advanced players [Loki], I'm certainly not picking Loki.