Melee 2.0 Mods

[XDeathCoreX]

Melee 2.0 mods sound awesome - finally they reward skill and add diversity instead of the same old stacking garbage.

[Strill]

Well I agree with OP then.  It sounds like a complete disaster.  If you're spending a valuable mod slot on a mod that only affects jump attack damage, then that's a mod that's not improving your main attack damage. Therefore, that mod is useless.

 

The fact that the dev thinks that this is going to create choice is simply baffling.  It's like they don't even play the same game. Do they understand the concept of opportunity cost??

 

The only way I can see this working out is if they remove the vast majority of damage-boosting mods, and just boost melee base damage to compensate.  That would mean that you choose between moves, and sacrificing damage for false versatility doesn't play into it.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Strill

[LeAtlas]

complaining about a non-existent system.. shame on you :T from what i've heard melee weapons comes with their own mod when u craft/ obtain them so i don't see a problem here

[SweetAnubis]

i personally like the idea of mods based on playstyle. but as a few posts here have mentioned the system is getting crowded. The mods based on playstyle should have an aura slot on the weapon much like the warframe has. and then make a seperate set of slots for your warframes skills just like the aura is already seperate.

[Darkmoone1]

The issue is the combination of the lack of slots to put anything specific in a build and important mods taking all those slots. Maybe giving weapons and frames additional mod slots when potatoed can alleviate the problem a little.

[MeduSalem]

The issue is the combination of the lack of slots to put anything specific in a build and important mods taking all those slots. Maybe giving weapons and frames additional mod slots when potatoed can alleviate the problem a little.

 

Adding more Modslots doesn't help. It would introduce another bandaid, as you'd have to forma even more to not hit the 60 modpoints even faster. I did some calculations on it and appearently the current system would support at a maximum of 9-10 modslots with a potato on the weapon, depending on the weapon and available mandatory-mods, but you'd have to forma them ALL to do so. After that there's an end to that madness, more's just not possible from any perspective. Also you won't put a potato on every weapon therefore having more modslots just seems awkward when most people would only be able to equip at a maximum of 5 mods, which defeats the purpose of having as much modslots.

 

A fast solution to that limitation would be to have Aura-like slots on each weapon which give additional modpoints you can spend on more modslots, like we have on Warframes. But personally I don't think that this would lead to more different builds at all as people would do the same as they are doing now... Slapping more damage mods onto the weapons and thats about it, while complaining they have not enough slots left for anything else. A circle that can't be broken because of the way stacking stats make you want to go for more damage instead of build diversity.

 

Another solution might be utility slots which prevent people from mindlessly slapping on more Damage mods and instead having some other ones too, but I can't help but feel that this is getting more and more against the basic foundations of the modsystem itself as it would get more and more specialized, which resembles more like a skilltree which prevents you from overnuking your gear or something. Feels more like a forced build differentiation than actually having the choice. If we at all would want build differentiation I would like to decide that on my own and not because I have to.

 

So I guess our best bet about the existing/arising problem are the introduction of more Dual-Stat mods which have utility stats on them as well as damage stats so they somewhat make you consider them. The problem about that is that there aren't as much of them around as there should be, and my proposal of being able to craft our own Dual-Stat mods with limitations (like precepts or recipes) and making stacking stats impossible to make it work has gone unheeded by most players and the Devs, because everybody is going to think it is too overpowered, unbalanced or takes out the future possibilities for the Devs themselves.

 

Lets face it... The modsystem was built exactly for that kind of stuff but there are several problems which need addressing (Modcosts, Modslots, Polarization+Forma'ing, Too many damage mods and/or unbalanced mods, stacking stats and so on...) to make it more future proof.

Edited February 24, 2014 by MeduSalem

[Strill]

The stream made it seem as though the special mods only increase the damage of those special abilities, but if they instead increase your general damage, I can see that being a viable way out for this system.

[RMark12]

I highly suggest to watch the above-linked video, but with paying close attention to two points of it: at 3:30 and at 7:15.

1. Melee 2.0 will give a tremendous boost to melee weapons themselves -  through combos and, of course, by having your melee weapon drawn in the first place. <---- The very mention of "combo" contradicts the OP's statement that the new system and mods will result in one attack being spammed all the time. Just no.

2. Melee mods will still have a role, but it won't be as significant as Serration is for rifles. <--- This was explicitly asked by the woman.

3. While some of the new mods will add damage to a single attack, the actual damage inflicted will still depend on point #1 (+x% is one number on a default 100 damage slide attack, completely another on a slide attack enhanced and precisely timed by a skillful combo to deal 1000 damage). <--- This is purely my speculation.

 

And 7:15  is important, because it makes me think that, at least at the time of the livestream, they were testing a block combo, where successfully blocking an attack would allow you to do an insta-kill counter-attack. This is the only explanation I can think of for the situation the guy on the left described, where the test version they were currently balancing was " game-breakingly easy", consisting of just "walk up, parry and kill, parry and kill".

 

It most likely won't be an insta-kill move when Melee 2.0 rolls out, but it gives a damn nice idea of what the new system is going to be - not only bringing melee up to par with gun play, but also making mod choice somewhat irrelevant, at least as far as combos are concerned (#2 makes me think that current mods will still apply, but just to tapping/holding "E" in-between firing your Soma/Ogris or whatever). If I'm understanding them correctly, of course.

 

And I sure hope I am, because this means that mods that actually change the behavior of your weapon, NOT just in making it deal elemental damage or swing faster, will actually earn a spot on the slots. The example of a Glaive able to do a "whirly thing" and reflect damage can only be the beginning. A ton of other stuff can be added in! Imagine a mod that tweaks your charged attacks, for example - making them disarm anything they hit. Suddenly, banzai charges at a high-level Napalm will no longer be the death wish they currently are. Or a mod that changes a finisher move to grab at a downed enemy and use him as a meat shield for a given duration, slowing you down to a crawl, but absorbing damage and allowing you to whip out your secondary to shoot back. Such mods add 0 damage, but hell, if they were released right now, I'd equip them on the spot.

 

Because really, even if melee was made on par with gun play, it will be a "it's shoot them with A, OR shoot them with B, OR slice them with C", which is in every way inferior to, say "Doing A benefits B, doing B benefits C, doing C benefits A".

Edited February 25, 2014 by RMark12

[Feallike]

Guys the they have told us *nothing* about the mods other then they could increase damage for one of your moves. They have not told us if its just a straight damage up or if it makes you do a combo when using that move. We need to wait until we get more Info on this subject before we start hating on it. As far as we know one of the mods could make us throw are melee weapons like a Jedi when doing a charge move! (That would be sooo epic)

[XDeathCoreX]

These mods need their own place. One section for raw damage, another for specific weapon damage, another for utility and perhaps another for elements or style.

Edited February 25, 2014 by XDeathCoreX

[Dalu__Ka]

Yes, lets assume the worst, that is always a good approach.

De stated that there will be no grind coming with melee2.0, and that the utility mods will have good damage boosts so you can use them instead of the damage mods we have now. Melee damage will compete with gun play in terms of damage output.

[Azamagon]

Honestly, modding "diversity" in this way is pointless.

 

I don't want overly specific mods (such as "slide attack damage booster"-mod), as that makes the situation we have now (stack regular damage or charge damage) even WORSE!

 

The kind of modding diversity that would be nice are mods more like Reach, Melee Channel and Second Wind and potential new ones like Health/Energy variations ofr Second Wind. Those allow for more REAL diversity, as those adds effects for ALL attacks!

But we also need ROOM for those mods, though that's a discussion for a different thread.

 

What should've been focused on with Melee 2.0 is IN-GAME DIVERSITY, as that's the diversity that counts. As such, mods for melee (in terms of damage-increasing ones) should've been MORE streamlined, not less! If Pressure Point, Spoiled Strike and the Steel Charge aura were changed to boost ALL melee damage (rather than just regular/slide/wall-attacks), then Killing Blow, Corrupt Charge, Rending Strike, Reflex Coil and Focus Energy could be made into more utility-based mods.

And instead of MODS affecting our new attack styles and so on, it would've been a much better idea to make it something switchable IN GAME, on the fly (like, by having different stances to swap between, more similar to the Jedi Knight Academy games). Or, simply just make the attacks themselves more diverse, which they are already doing with combos if I understood correctly.

Let our playstyle and gameskill determine our power in versatility, don't let the MODS determine that!

 

TL;DR: Instead of having modding "diversity", dump the idea of overly niched mods (which currently only does the OPPOSITE of granting us diversity) and focus on IN-GAME diversity instead! That's what really counts!

[Feallike]

Yes, lets assume the worst, that is always a good approach.

De stated that there will be no grind coming with melee2.0, and that the utility mods will have good damage boosts so you can use them instead of the damage mods we have now. Melee damage will compete with gun play in terms of damage output.

Ok worse case senior, The mods are super hard to get, and the system is buggy as hell, and people just ignore that melee 2.0 is a thing and just go back to using Soma and such.

 

Best case senior, Mods are very easy to get, the system works nearly perfectly, most bugs that broke melee weapons are fixed, Melee is as good as shooting, people don't ignore the fact that Melee 2.0 is a thing and keep shooting. 

Edited February 26, 2014 by Feallike

[ZeroPhobic]

I think if they would have come at this from a slightly different angle and made the mod a style mod, much like auras for the frames. Steve was talking about "crane style" and "weeping willow" if they would have done it as a complete style change and allow the combos to flow from the stlye and not from a specific move like the jump attack they keep referring to. The skill in stringing together combos and moves could easily come from the style you pick for your weapon rather than mod by mod and move by move.

 

The underlying issue for me is Melee 2.0 sounds awesome, but Nth more mods to rework a weapon just sounds like a grind added on top, just getting flashbacks of I10. They just throw mods at us like mardi gras necklaces and then make them rare to find so what would be a fun system, turns into a grindfest that could have been side stepped by a bit more foresight. This is really my only gripe. 

 

It is true that I do not know how this is going to roll out, but from past roll outs and the way they described it, I can get a clear picture in my mind and a real bad taste in my mouth...

[Strill]

The underlying issue for me is Melee 2.0 sounds awesome, but Nth more mods to rework a weapon just sounds like a grind added on top, just getting flashbacks of I10. They just throw mods at us like mardi gras necklaces and then make them rare to find so what would be a fun system, turns into a grindfest that could have been side stepped by a bit more foresight. This is really my only gripe. 

They said you wouldn't need to grind new mods.

[ZeroPhobic]

They said you wouldn't need to grind new mods.

They always say that! The issue still is, there is a much better way and most likely a more fun way to roll out melee 2.0 then throw mods at it. Though after damage 2.0 got the new mods "we didn't have to grind" we should expect  this by now.

[Strill]

They always say that! The issue still is, there is a much better way and most likely a more fun way to roll out melee 2.0 then throw mods at it. Though after damage 2.0 got the new mods "we didn't have to grind" we should expect  this by now.

No I mean they said the new mods will be given to you. You'll already have them.

[Feallike]

No I mean they said the new mods will be given to you. You'll already have them.

 

They said that? where? I want to know. :(

[Dalu__Ka]

Watch the youtube vid thats posted on page 2.

[Feallike]

Watch the youtube vid thats posted on page 2.

 

*takes off glove and slaps* *puts glove back on* how dare you sir! Ofcourse i watched that video, but i don't remember any time where they said the mods where going to be given to you. 

[Nkomo-Sama]

*takes off glove and slaps* *puts glove back on* how dare you sir! Ofcourse i watched that video, but i don't remember any time where they said the mods where going to be given to you. 

DEms Dueling words right there...TO THE CONCLAVES! ( Post Melee 2.0 of course)

 

 

Clever post by OP. This was sure to get a debate started. I'd like to reserve my complete assessment of the melee 2.0 mod system UNTIL THE SYSTEM HAS BEEN DISTRIBUTED. I would love to say a skill tree system would have been a better option to consider but that is unfounded until I experience what the new melee system entails.

[XDeathCoreX]

There at least needs to be a separate section for style where only the highest ranking mod bumps up points much like Auras.

[ZeroPhobic]

Yay, they listened!!!