Grustrag Three: Infuriating Penalties 2.0

[(PSN)natek_morzy]

It's funny because I knew this kind of thread would end up on the forums upon learning about G3 as a PS4 user.

 

Why complain? If you don't want a team of fat grineer dudes after you don't go for Brakk and don't support the Corpus.

 

I mean for crying out load at least we FINALLY GET A BOSS THATS A LITTLE TINY BIT CHALLENGING.

 

 

Regards,

Morzy

[Onisa]

It's funny because I knew this kind of thread would end up on the forums upon learning about G3 as a PS4 user.

 

Why complain? If you don't want a team of fat grineer dudes after you don't go for Brakk and don't support the Corpus.

 

I mean for crying out load at least we FINALLY GET A BOSS THATS A LITTLE TINY BIT CHALLENGING.

 

 

Regards,

Morzy

If you think a trio of lvl 20 boss mobs popping up for a squad of lvl 1 tenno is a 'little tiny bit' of a challenge I'd hate to see what you considered 'hard'.

[(PSN)natek_morzy]

If you think a trio of lvl 20 boss mobs popping up for a squad of lvl 1 tenno is a 'little tiny bit' of a challenge I'd hate to see what you considered 'hard'.

If a player is not aware to the consequences of supporting the Corpus and inevitably meeting the G3 then that is just plain ignorance, there, and that''s just a challenge any player has to overcome. It may seem harsh but it's the same with The Stalker[just worse, obviously].

 

And.. Level 1 Tenno? I'm pretty sure after you do an invasion you wouldn't be stupid enough to use a level 1 Tenno with that deathmark. And if the Tenno si unaware it is again ignorance.

 

Harsh? No, just challenging.

 

As for me there really isn't anything hard besides high level game modes.

[Onisa]

If a player is not aware to the consequences of supporting the Corpus and inevitably meeting the G3 then that is just plain ignorance, there, and that''s just a challenge any player has to overcome. It may seem harsh but it's the same with The Stalker[just worse, obviously].

 

And.. Level 1 Tenno? I'm pretty sure after you do an invasion you wouldn't be stupid enough to use a level 1 Tenno with that deathmark. And if the Tenno si unaware it is again ignorance.

 

Harsh? No, just challenging.

 

As for me there really isn't anything hard besides high level game modes.

I can see not reading a thread when it's 8 or more pages long, but when it's only 4 you really should.

 

A previous poster had the G3 crash their pug party of low level frames at Apollodourus.

 

I would argue that not scouring all information about a source is not plain ignorance though.

What little info I've found about the various hunter mobs has been vague, contradictory, or both.

[notionphil]

If a player is not aware to the consequences of supporting the Corpus and inevitably meeting the G3 then that is just plain ignorance, there, and that''s just a challenge any player has to overcome. It may seem harsh but it's the same with The Stalker[just worse, obviously].

 

And.. Level 1 Tenno? I'm pretty sure after you do an invasion you wouldn't be stupid enough to use a level 1 Tenno with that deathmark. And if the Tenno si unaware it is again ignorance.

 

Harsh? No, just challenging.

 

As for me there really isn't anything hard besides high level game modes.

 

Last time I checked the G3 can target a random PUG player you're with, and anyone they kill gets the penalty.

 

So...basically anyone, in any mission can be killed by the G3 and bolted.

[Yezzik]

I'm pretty sure after you do an invasion you wouldn't be stupid enough to use a level 1 Tenno with that deathmark.

 

How many times do I have to repeat myself?

 

Here, let me bold it for you if that helps.

 

The issue was that they were LEVEL TWENTY, in a LEVEL ONE mission, with LEVEL ONE frames.

[(PSN)ariaandkia]

 

 

 

How many times do I have to repeat myself?

 

Here, let me bold it for you if that helps.

 

The issue was that they were LEVEL TWENTY, in a LEVEL ONE mission, with LEVEL ONE frames.

 

In other words, they were scaling properly (due to 20 being the minimum level they can spawn) but you didn't bother to keep a good weapon.

[Frostmire]

G3 's punishment can be very frustrating until you unlock Kappa . Those Oxium Oyspres don't spawn much in other map and it's pretty hard to kill them b4 they kill themselves unless you bring a very strong weapon with you .

[Zerethon]

The G3 are actually scary. is what this boils down to, so if i distill the mixture a bit...

 

Ah there we go:

"waaaah, i can't get the brakk easily because the G3 are hard at low levels when i'm not running grineer missions prepared while deathmark'd"

SOOPER SEKRIT PROTIP THINGY: Last i knew the G3 could be stunned, frozen, slowed, stasis'd, and all kinds of other nasties being little more than boosted-up grineer heavies.

 

AKA: If you can fight the jackal, or you started with a mag, you win. Loki/excal also have troll moves.

I don't fear them or the harvester, i do fear the stalker a bit more than them as he can show up even while solo in void missions.

[Anunymau5]

The G3 are actually scary. is what this boils down to, so if i distill the mixture a bit...

 

Ah there we go:

"waaaah, i can't get the brakk easily because the G3 are hard at low levels when i'm not running grineer missions prepared while deathmark'd"

SOOPER SEKRIT PROTIP THINGY: Last i knew the G3 could be stunned, frozen, slowed, stasis'd, and all kinds of other nasties being little more than boosted-up grineer heavies.

 

AKA: If you can fight the jackal, or you started with a mag, you win. Loki/excal also have troll moves.

I don't fear them or the harvester, i do fear the stalker a bit more than them as he can show up even while solo in void missions.

This! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All this thread is, is players whining about how they didn't plan for the G3 and now they have to pay the punishment. It's the same as bringing a mk-1 braton, lato, and skana to a T3 defense and complaining that the enemies were a bit too powerful.

[TonyFoot]

I have mixed feelings about the G3....

 

On the one hand, I like the challenge they provide. On higher levels and in areas where their AI is working at its best, they are a force to be reckoned with. I have no use for the brakk part (already got it) but their mod drops alone are pretty impressive. All in all I enjoy the fight.

 

But the question has been raised in this thread: what about the newer players? and the question is VERY valid. what about newer players? how are they supposed to deal with the grustag bolt if they lose? And they WILL lose, don't kid yourselves. Maybe not often, maybe even rarely, but the fact remains that the cost of removing a grustrag bolt is one that most newbies can't afford, at least not without a handout.

 

I could understand if it involved a mix of resourses from the early game, some common, some rare, but the fact that these resources are ALL rare (and a pain in the &#! to farm, I might add) makes the bolt feel terribly arbitrary; at best, a stand-in for something more, and at worst, a lazy and half-baked penalty for a loss against the G3.

 

I could compare the penalties of the other mini-bosses to highlight the issue:

 

-The stalker is the simplest penalty: you lose a life. Nothing too harmful, perhaps even a little disappointing, but this is something easily recovered from, and so he becomes more acceptable to deploy in the earlier game (still a bit strong for a fresh face, though, IMHO). Annoying, though.

 

- The Harvester has probably the best penalty out of the three: You are captured and forced to run an interesting escape mission on the jupiter tile set. (the mission isn't too hard, even fun, and so remains acceptable) no loss of resources, just a simple solo mission. I've heard of game-breaking bugs on this mission, and the mission emphasises stealth, which is not a totally viable system at the moment, so it leaves something to be desired. Still, an interesting penalty.

 

-finally, the G3: an annoying and expensive bolt which cripples your powers against the Grineer. Weapons are fine, its just your powers. The bolt costs a collection of random and rare resources to remove, most of which make no sense when thrown together, and all of which drop very rarely. Veterans will have absolutely no trouble with this, while new players will struggle and perhaps even quit in the worst cases.

 

I'll say it again (because TL;DR): I have no problem with the G3 fight. I think its great. The only issue I have with this is the penalty for a loss against them, because the penalty feels too arbitrary, and doesn't affect veteran players, while severely bogging down newer players.

Edited March 8, 2014 by TonyFoot

[Taranis49]

This! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All this thread is, is players whining about how they didn't plan for the G3 and now they have to pay the punishment. It's the same as bringing a mk-1 braton, lato, and skana to a T3 defense and complaining that the enemies were a bit too powerful.

 

False, I'm just capable of this wild thing called thinking about people other than myself. I've never lost to the G3 and I still consider the penalty harsh, particularly for newbies (incidentally, it's trivial for me, since barring the Oxi-Clean nonsense I apparently have the resources to build dozens of bolt removers). To reiterate, there's no information provided ingame on deathmark status or that they'll spawn on you prior to being marked.

 

There's also the fact they apparently bolt anyone who loses, not just the target - so even people (including newbies) who've never supported the Corpus can still get screwed if someone drags the G3 to their mission.

 

That's also false equivalence, a.) taking part in void missions isn't random b.) there's no penalty for failing one even if somebody does bite off more than they can chew.

[weirdee]

the other thing is you can run a gazillion missions with both deathmarks and not even see anything for a week, but then when you decide to take some underleveled stuff to train WHOOPS THERE THEY ARE

 

can't wait a century to start training gear again

Edited March 9, 2014 by weirdee

[(PSN)ariaandkia]

False, I'm just capable of this wild thing called thinking about people other than myself. I've never lost to the G3 and I still consider the penalty harsh, particularly for newbies (incidentally, it's trivial for me, since barring the Oxi-Clean nonsense I apparently have the resources to build dozens of bolt removers). To reiterate, there's no information provided ingame on deathmark status or that they'll spawn on you prior to being marked.

 

There's also the fact they apparently bolt anyone who loses, not just the target - so even people (including newbies) who've never supported the Corpus can still get screwed if someone drags the G3 to their mission.

 

That's also false equivalence, a.) taking part in void missions isn't random b.) there's no penalty for failing one even if somebody does bite off more than they can chew.

It is a partially correct equiv though, since the person that it is after is choosing to join a group of low levels without having any remotely proper gear.

 

As for the newbies, I've personally stated that it should only affect the person targeted.  It would make so much more sense.

 

As for people saying Kappa is the only place, The second planet (if corpus controlled) actually has quite some good Oxium drops.  About 15 in 6 minutes.

 

The real hard one is neural sensors.

 

And if there is no mail like with the other two, they should add in mail saying that you are marked.

 

===

 

Again, keep a decent weapon on you if you aren't used to fighting them.  I've fought the stalker with a level 7 weapon before and won.  I was at the point where he didn't show up for me while I worked on underleveled gear since I would demolish him with those underleveled gear.  He had a better chance against me when I was using my standard gear since I actually hold back with gear that I'm used to and I tend to not know how to hold back when using new gear.

 

Pretty much the: Fight against the stronger one that holds back or fight against the weaker one that doesn't understand what holding back is.

 

But that is me, most people seem to always hold back even if they are using new gear.  I get that the proper thing to do is to hold back, but I just can't help it sometimes.  My automatic reaction when I'm being attacked is to go all out so I have to actually manually control myself in order to hold back.  And sometimes I'm just too tired to hold back.

[Onisa]

This! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All this thread is, is players whining about how they didn't plan for the G3 and now they have to pay the punishment. It's the same as bringing a mk-1 braton, lato, and skana to a T3 defense and complaining that the enemies were a bit too powerful.

It's literally the opposite from what I've read.

It's complaining about being in a level appropriate place and having a trio of mobs spawn that are 15-20 lvls above you.

All because you wanted that potato last week.

Unless you were the unlucky pug member. Then it's because someone else wanted that potato last week.

[PaperAlien]

It is applicable.  When you "level up" a weapon, nothing really changes about the weapon itself.  It is the mods you put on that change the weapon.  Same with military weapons.  It is what you add that changes things.  Bullet type as an example.   And I said every nation in existence.  As in including the past.  Don't think that the military don't bring worthless gear.  They've done it quite a few times in the past. (This post will now be censored for my own protection).

 

But generally, at least one weapon is good.

It is not applicable, because you don't need to "level up" a weapon to add mods in it. You can just add mods straight up, there's no rule about "you have to get this many kills to add this attachment." Hence, no one is gonna bring an inferior weapon with the intent of making it more powerful through us.

Again, keep a decent weapon on you if you aren't used to fighting them.  I've fought the stalker with a level 7 weapon before and won.  I was at the point where he didn't show up for me while I worked on underleveled gear since I would demolish him with those underleveled gear.  He had a better chance against me when I was using my standard gear since I actually hold back with gear that I'm used to and I tend to not know how to hold back when using new gear.

 

Pretty much the: Fight against the stronger one that holds back or fight against the weaker one that doesn't understand what holding back is.

 

But that is me, most people seem to always hold back even if they are using new gear.  I get that the proper thing to do is to hold back, but I just can't help it sometimes.  My automatic reaction when I'm being attacked is to go all out so I have to actually manually control myself in order to hold back.  And sometimes I'm just too tired to hold back.

So your entire argument is that the weaker you are, the stronger you are because you have some strange sense of "holding back"? Do you let the Stalker get a couple of free hits in because you have high-level items? Feel bad for him? You shouldn't. I'm sorry, in a properly designed video game, holding back is not "the proper thing to do," it's to give it your all. The fact that Warframe requires you to hold back is precisely why its scaling system is bad.

 

If a player is not aware to the consequences of supporting the Corpus and inevitably meeting the G3 then that is just plain ignorance, there, and that''s just a challenge any player has to overcome. It may seem harsh but it's the same with The Stalker[just worse, obviously].

 

And.. Level 1 Tenno? I'm pretty sure after you do an invasion you wouldn't be stupid enough to use a level 1 Tenno with that deathmark. And if the Tenno si unaware it is again ignorance.

 

Harsh? No, just challenging.

 

As for me there really isn't anything hard besides high level game modes.

Do you have any idea what "challenging" actually means? I don't think you do. If a new player joins the game, and ends up in a mission with a marked player, and then gets bolted because they're just figuring out the game, do they deserve that? If course they do, right? I mean, how dare they start playing a game without wiki'ing EVERYTHING about it before they begin? Obviously when you entered the game you were already completely informed, experienced and skilled. Grinding for resources to remove this stupid restriction is NOT challenging. It's grinding. Plain, boring grinding. Why don't you use your pro skills to make more neurodes drop?

Is it ignorance to not know the details of the bolt when the game doesn't do a great job of explaining it? The vague, easily missed warning of the effects of the bolt is often swallowed up by the tide of other insignificant flavour text this game likes to employ. Many players will no doubt dismiss it as further empty threats, because really, the Grineer (and enemies in general), use them WAY too often.

Also, nice to know you find this game too easy. You should feel good about that, why else post about it when it's completely irrelevant?

In other words, they were scaling properly (due to 20 being the minimum level they can spawn) but you didn't bother to keep a good weapon.

They were scaling properly according to the current system. The problem is that the current system is flawed. The minimum should really be much lower if there's no lower limit to player level when they appear. Also, again with the nuke up the sleeve.

 

The G3 are actually scary. is what this boils down to, so if i distill the mixture a bit...

 

Ah there we go:

"waaaah, i can't get the brakk easily because the G3 are hard at low levels when i'm not running grineer missions prepared while deathmark'd"

SOOPER SEKRIT PROTIP THINGY: Last i knew the G3 could be stunned, frozen, slowed, stasis'd, and all kinds of other nasties being little more than boosted-up grineer heavies.

 

AKA: If you can fight the jackal, or you started with a mag, you win. Loki/excal also have troll moves.

I don't fear them or the harvester, i do fear the stalker a bit more than them as he can show up even while solo in void missions.

If you actually bothered to read the OP, you'd realise no one was complaining about not getting the Brakk. It also wasn't about how easy or hard it is, because that varies between people, and you would apparently be "waaaaah"ing the same way if it was the stalker giving the bolts.

 

This! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All this thread is, is players whining about how they didn't plan for the G3 and now they have to pay the punishment. It's the same as bringing a mk-1 braton, lato, and skana to a T3 defense and complaining that the enemies were a bit too powerful.

If you actually read properly, you'd realise the OP is complaining about the stupidity of the punishment, rather than the fact that there is one. Also, I don't see how you managed to miss all the posts about how this will affect newbies. Oh, but of course, they have no rights. How dare they bring Mk-1 Braton, Lato and Skana to a mission and then have to fight level 20 enemies. They should have gone some potato'd Soma's before starting the game.

[WarGrylls]

Sounds like a matter of preparation vs rng. With 3 assassins on our tails now, all Tenno need to carry that 'ace-in-the-hole' weapon(s) and no one should be caught with their pants down using from around 2 to all 4 pieces of low leveled gear(not counting sentinels), especially in invasion runs.. unless doing them ONCE to unlock the next node on a private setting to not get caught up in others' rng luck and roped into a bolt debuff by chance. The risk on being attacked is either chance access to powerful weapons in their class, or death/harvested/bolt'd(better than losing the frame permanently since the grineer want to kill us all)... or trolled with lame consolation prizes. Hmmmm... dat ninja life.

[(PSN)ariaandkia]

It is not applicable, because you don't need to "level up" a weapon to add mods in it. You can just add mods straight up, there's no rule about "you have to get this many kills to add this attachment." Hence, no one is gonna bring an inferior weapon with the intent of making it more powerful through us.

So your entire argument is that the weaker you are, the stronger you are because you have some strange sense of "holding back"? Do you let the Stalker get a couple of free hits in because you have high-level items? Feel bad for him? You shouldn't. I'm sorry, in a properly designed video game, holding back is not "the proper thing to do," it's to give it your all. The fact that Warframe requires you to hold back is precisely why its scaling system is bad.

 

Do you have any idea what "challenging" actually means? I don't think you do. If a new player joins the game, and ends up in a mission with a marked player, and then gets bolted because they're just figuring out the game, do they deserve that? If course they do, right? I mean, how dare they start playing a game without wiki'ing EVERYTHING about it before they begin? Obviously when you entered the game you were already completely informed, experienced and skilled. Grinding for resources to remove this stupid restriction is NOT challenging. It's grinding. Plain, boring grinding. Why don't you use your pro skills to make more neurodes drop?

Is it ignorance to not know the details of the bolt when the game doesn't do a great job of explaining it? The vague, easily missed warning of the effects of the bolt is often swallowed up by the tide of other insignificant flavour text this game likes to employ. Many players will no doubt dismiss it as further empty threats, because really, the Grineer (and enemies in general), use them WAY too often.

Also, nice to know you find this game too easy. You should feel good about that, why else post about it when it's completely irrelevant?

They were scaling properly according to the current system. The problem is that the current system is flawed. The minimum should really be much lower if there's no lower limit to player level when they appear. Also, again with the nuke up the sleeve.

 

If you actually bothered to read the OP, you'd realise no one was complaining about not getting the Brakk. It also wasn't about how easy or hard it is, because that varies between people, and you would apparently be "waaaaah"ing the same way if it was the stalker giving the bolts.

 

If you actually read properly, you'd realise the OP is complaining about the stupidity of the punishment, rather than the fact that there is one. Also, I don't see how you managed to miss all the posts about how this will affect newbies. Oh, but of course, they have no rights. How dare they bring Mk-1 Braton, Lato and Skana to a mission and then have to fight level 20 enemies. They should have gone some potato'd Soma's before starting the game.

You obviously don't read everything yourself.

 

I said I've beaten the Stalker without powerful weapons.  And my bad, so you are saying that people aren't holding back but that they are just bad players?  I'm sorry for assuming that they were good players that were holding back.  I guess I have too much expectations for humans.

 

I always have to hold back in games with only a few exceptions: specifically, racing games, fighting games, and physical games.  People always get mad at me when I "switch" and forget to.  Part of why I normally play a healer most of the time, people don't care as much if the healer forgets to hold back.

 

And that is my exact point.  You are arguing that you shouldn't bring a TESTED weapon (Which is what military weapons generally are).  Think of it this way.  We are TESTING the weapon for viability as we rank them up.   In the same sense, military generally tests their weapons for viability before actually using them.

 

You are arguing that a TESTED weapon is equal to a nuke.   I'm arguing that a TESTED weapon is not necessarily equal to a nuke.

 

As for the punishment being stupid, it is not stupid.   What is stupid is that random players can get punished.

[arisaka]

I don't understand how it's a good idea to make the cost of removing the bolt include TWO DIFFERENT RARE RESOURCES.

[Strill]

The Lotus tells you to abort the mission for a reason, stupid.

I don't mean to come off as rude, but if G3 was too easy, you'd complain about that too. 

I love this, it means that there is an entity out there that we should fear again, since the Stalker is easymode to veterans by now and nobody seems to care about poor Harvy anymore.

You're missing the point.  It's not that they're too easy, it's that there aren't any safe missions to level up low-level gear in.

 

And don't say that you should just avoid getting marked, because you can never tell that other people aren't marked.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Strill

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

This amuses me to no end. So you are being hunted by psychotic space murders who could show up at any time. Your plan is to go to a noob planet with an unranked frame? Does that not sound like a bad idea to anyone else? Yeah I feel bad for the noobs, but you saying it isn't fair is like throwing a bag of kittens in a river and saying how awful the bag is. The idea is for a game to progress. You as a player want to be able to level your frame peacefully in easy sauce town, but have advanced far enough to not have that option because of plot. Maybe they should give you all 4 bolts...

[RawGritz]

This amuses me to no end. So you are being hunted by psychotic space murders who could show up at any time. Your plan is to go to a noob planet with an unranked frame? Does that not sound like a bad idea to anyone else? Yeah I feel bad for the noobs, but you saying it isn't fair is like throwing a bag of kittens in a river and saying how awful the bag is. The idea is for a game to progress. You as a player want to be able to level your frame peacefully in easy sauce town, but have advanced far enough to not have that option because of plot. Maybe they should give you all 4 bolts...

Yay more wizened Tenno join this moderately ridiculous discussion. The man^^ speaks the truth. Make sure you go unranked against Corpus if Grustrag are coming. Or make sure go with friends who are kitted out. Or make sure you have erased your mark/had them spawn on you before you go gallivanting with an unranked/low ranked frame. 

 

Or just go prepared with at least 1 decent gun.

Edited March 12, 2014 by RawGritz

[Nagisawa]

If a player is not aware to the consequences of supporting the Corpus and inevitably meeting the G3 then that is just plain ignorance, there, and that''s just a challenge any player has to overcome. It may seem harsh but it's the same with The Stalker[just worse, obviously].

 

And.. Level 1 Tenno? I'm pretty sure after you do an invasion you wouldn't be stupid enough to use a level 1 Tenno with that deathmark. And if the Tenno si unaware it is again ignorance.

 

Harsh? No, just challenging.

 

As for me there really isn't anything hard besides high level game modes.

Yes, because we're all hardcore bros like yourself!  

 

Right, another to ignore.

[(PSN)ariaandkia]

Yes, because we're all hardcore bros like yourself!  

 

Right, another to ignore.

 

Being prepared is not being hardcore.

[arisaka]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of this thread. I don't think it's a big deal that they can come in a mission randomly and kill you. I think it's a big deal that you have to spend so much to remove the bolt when you fail. It takes THREE DIFFERENT rare resources, as well as 20 Oxium. I mean, seriously? And that thing is on permanently unless you make the Bolt Release? And everyone in the game gets a bolt when they lose, not just the target?

 

What the hell.

 

My question is, why is the foundry used for EVERYTHING, including this? Why does pretty much EVERYTHING rely on resources to make? Why not make a challenge you have to go through in order to remove the bolt? It should be gear/mod independent (which is, by the way, pretty much the only possible way to make something in this game balanced for everyone), and challenging...but you should be able to try repeatedly with no "come back in 24 hours" crap. That way, you're punished for losing to the G3 but it's not something you'll want to Alt-F4 to avoid.