Melee 2.0: Shiny, But Useless Toy.

[KaikelX]

Reflection is better, IMO.

I took both. Never used crush anyhow :P

[Arlayn]

To me looks great. I made some modifications in my loudouts and I was using melee only 'till now. My melees are really strong even without stance mods and in T3 mission. The people that are complaining  needs to be patience and learn how to use  your melee and how to build it in a effective way. 

I'm doing good 'cause I used to melee enemies even before Melee 2.0. Also, you can block knockbacks using channeling+block  or channeling attacks(I'm not sure about this second one).

I'll post a better review when I get more experience with another melee weapons and stance mods. I think a video would be great to not believers start to believe :)

I'm in love with melee 2.0 *u*

My Dual Ichor hurts from the lack of charge attack, and freely swinging them around. They just aren't what they used to be. The Shinigami Nekros has been crippled!

[Ritchel]

used my newbie alt account

 

the mellee 2.0 is useful and fun

 

my opinion, channeling is better than charge

Edited April 10, 2014 by Ritchel

[Dalu__Ka]

Bet OP must feel mighty stupid now.

[SirAuron]

Bet OP must feel mighty stupid now.

[arche]

I'm still with OP, tested melee 2.0. still feel that melee is still useless.

[Ttariel]

I'm still with OP, tested melee 2.0. still feel that melee is still useless.

 

Its not as bad as OP made it look like.

I did T3 Survival with Volt and Fang Prime up to 30 min with decent rates, but sooner or later the combo bonus is just not stacking fast enough.

 

They have to give the combo more time when its high or make the bonus come in faster rates.

 

It was day 1 so i hold hopes DE will tweak some stuff for the rest of the week.

[letir]

It was day 1 so i hold hopes DE will tweak some stuff for the rest of the week.

Control, stances and drops.

[theGreatZamboni]

The game relied on shooting so heavily that melee became a way to just deal with enemies if they got too close. But DE insisted on using the phrase Space Ninja, so people became confused and wondered why melee was so anemic. The truth is, they clearly had no plan, if they did they would have worked on a balance between guns and melee sooner (or from the start). If you set out to make a game that used both of these methods of player action, you would say one of the following:

 

1. Guns should be the focus, melee is just a simple tacked on concept meant for specific scenarios.

 

2. Guns and Sword should be balanced, they are both effective means of play.

 

3. Melee is the focus, guns will either not exist or be extremely weak.

 

Now had this game been melee centric from the onset, we would have a completely different game. But the over reliance of throwing together whatever they feel like, without direction has caused a rift in not only the meta, but the player base. Is Warframe about shooting? Is it about being a Ninja? Is it a loot based game like Diablo? Shouldn't there be more Co-Op interactions? Warframe is so unfocused that this late into development, it has caused uneasiness and instability.

 

If you sat down and said: I want a Co-OP based game that uses movement, melee and guns; marrying those three to create an experience like nothing else- why would you make the game rely so heavily on loot? Not just loot, the over reliance on superficial content to suppliment any real development of identiy or function has caused irreprehensible damage to the product. It was the obvious lack of planning and dishonest means of retaining players that has lead to the massive grind/RNG heavy game we have. Instead of creating experiences, DE keeps giving us new treadmills to run.

 

People are most likely aware of my disdain for Mods and my fear of stagnation or over saturation. It is founded and this update has proved it.

Edited April 14, 2014 by theGreatZamboni

[Deristel]

New melee system will be useless. It can be "beautiful", "imbalanced", "glitchy" etc - but it will be useless in real game.

 

 

Let's make it clean - Warframe is TPS with simplified combat mechanics. Game balance designed for a gunfight, and also has other problems on its own.

 

Main problems:

1) Ranged weapon master race.

It's quite simple: Risk vs. Reward. Ranged weapons have a minimal risk, but highest reward. You can kill enemies one by one from cover, or kite infected without the slightest danger. Moreover, ranged weapon has the highest damage, can penetrate obstacles (modding) and has a large reserve of ammunition (it can be replenished during the mission).

 

2) Powers.

Press 4 to win. To be invisible. To be immortal. To wipe room. To control room. To be contined...

 

3) Game balance.

a) СС problems - inevitable and irresistible control effects.

b) Tank vs late game - insane damage from high level enemies can easy kill any tank. It's fight of glasscannons.

с) Lack of combat etiquette - enemies can freely attack you in crowds, without any hindrances.

 

 

 

What need to be done for REAL Melee 2.0:

1) Absolute block and parry system.

Not DMC, but Jedy Knight and Metal Gear Rising battle type.

 

a) Bullet deflection - when you hold melee weapon, all "light" ranged attacks reflected automaticly. If you attack, it's changed to damage reduction - signifcantly lowered ranged damage.

b) Absolute block - special block can hold any sort of attack, defend from any CC effect.

c) Parry and counter - time-stricted action. Can open enemy for deadly/very strong (for bosses and leaders) counterattack, return "heavy" projectile to sender.

 

"Light" = bullets, plasma projectiles, etc. - any "usual" shot.

"Heavy" = rockets, Milter's disks, etc.

"Irresistible" = sniper's shot - сan not be parried or reflected, blockable only.

 

Block must work in ANY direction, not just in front.

 

2) Enemy diversity.

All fractions adopted to modern warfare. They create new armor, shields and tactics to counter gunfire. What's why Way of the Sword is still alive - Tenno sword can beat unbeateable.

 

3) HP, tanking and CC system rework.

a) Rework of defence - defence modules with better effect. Real tank must miltigate some damage even on high levels, even from most dangerous enemies.

b) Stricted CC - all control effects can be avoided or blocked. There isn't any "insta-AOE-knockdown" or "infinity-chain-of-stuns". Handspring for free.

 

"You just wanna faceroll Pluto/T3/Nightmare!"

I want a chance to use my sword against Grineer squad or pack of Ancients/Chargers. Without the risk of being killed on the spot/controlled to the death.

 

 

4) Stricked ammunition for ranged weapon.

Each weapon should be limited to 1-3 clips. Supply of ammunition should be significantly limited. Ammo drops must die.

On Defence/Survival Lotus give you ammo drops.

 

That's the way to balance everything without nerfs. Use your gun now, or keep ammo for future boss? Kill this crowd with rocket launcher or take down armored leader without melee battle? Choices and decisions.

 

 

5) Stricked powers.

CD's and "rage" concept - you can gain energy only for damage/kill, melee give more energy.

 

 

 

P.S. "It's too difficult, you want to destroy the fun!"

I want VIABLE melee - not just funny toy. And simple shooter with unlimited powers can't have viable melee - there is just no way. It's question of game balance - every "melee orientated game" must strict ranged weapons.

 

P.P.S. Solved problems:

1. Ranged weapon master race 50%.

а) Melee weapon is much stronger now.

 

2. Game balance 20%

a) Block/parry system is created (but not completed).

b) CC effect can be blocked (part of them cannot be blocked).

Agree.I think melee is more suited for stealthy mission wich at the moment we don't need.

Want a real mele 2.0?Make mission where you can go melee only.Easy as that.Ofcourse,you gotta tweak enemies in that mission keeping this in mind.

[Typhoid_Typhoon]

I don't know if anyone has said this or not, I got tired of reading all the same arguments for 5 pages but you guys have totally missed the point of this game.  It is not about doing only melee or all shooting, or just abilities. It is about a combination of the three for a flowing combat experience.  With the way the mod system works you can customize your warframe to do anything you want.  So instead of complaining about how the game works, suggest some mods you would like to see.  Or even suggest some changes to mods that are already there.  Most of the stuff you talk about in the original post are all available in mods.  The only thing I haven't already seen in the game is a counter striking ability, but honestly who needs it with this game?  I regularly charge into large groups of gun-wielding enemies and tear them apart with melee.  Also there aren't many rooms in this game where you can't get to people using cover most of the way.  Most of the knockdowns are avoidable if you use your tricky ninja skills, and by that I mean jumping and dodging not your powers.  This game is about being a space ninja, let me reiterate, NINJA.  This is a "you can't hit what isn't there" style of play over a "I cleverly blocked your attack with my face" game play style.  The creators have been nice enough to add a few guys that can take a hit, however, this really wasn't all that necessary.  Sounds like a lot of you need to learn to play the game you already have instead of ripping in to stuff that hasn't even been added yet.

[Anhuin]

   All you need to do in order to make melee viable is -believe it or not- get a heavy weapon such as the Orthos Prime with a maxed fury, a bunch of damage/elemental mods or whatever, get Heavy Stander, Rush, Stamina, and a S#&$ ton of shields. Is this possible? Yeah, because I've done it. Only weapon equipped is the Orthos Prime and all I do is kick &#!.

  How? The attack speed is like the Fang, with HEAVY MELEE DAMAGE AND ELEMENTAL DAMAGE. Also, the enemy barely gets around four hits on my 900+ shields (which don't even matter, heavy units miss entirely) before I'm in their face and Orthos bashing them. Max Reach allowing me to kill an entire assault squad (Grineer or Corpus) in around three or four hits (one if they're low levels). I win the trade and by the time the battle's over, my shields are at full charge again. Tested this out in Conclave and it is OP as hell. Melee should be nerfed as the only thing that could remotely frustrate my simple air-slide attack and jump attack combo was the Penta.

 

 

   TL;DR: Melee works in both conclave and PvE if you have shields, sprint speed, attack speed, attack damage, and a heavy weapon. Oh yeah, you don't even need to block because they won't have a chance to hit you :)

Edited April 11, 2014 by Anhuin

[arche]

   All you need to do in order to make melee viable is -believe it or not- get a heavy weapon such as the Orthos Prime with a maxed fury, a bunch of damage/elemental mods or whatever, get Heavy Stander, Rush, Stamina, and a S#&$ ton of shields. Is this possible? Yeah, because I've done it. Only weapon equipped is the Orthos Prime and all I do is kick &#!.

  How? The attack speed is like the Fang, with HEAVY MELEE DAMAGE AND ELEMENTAL DAMAGE. Also, the enemy barely gets around four hits on my 900+ shields (which don't even matter, heavy units miss entirely) before I'm in their face and Orthos bashing them. Max Reach allowing me to kill an entire assault squad (Grineer or Corpus) in around three or four hits (one if they're low levels). I win the trade and by the time the battle's over, my shields are at full charge again. Tested this out in Conclave and it is OP as hell. Melee should be nerfed as the only thing that could remotely frustrate my simple air-slide attack and jump attack combo was the Penta.

 

 

   TL;DR: Melee works in both conclave and PvE if you have shields, sprint speed, attack speed, attack damage, and a heavy weapon. Oh yeah, you don't even need to block because they won't have a chance to hit you :)

Which you have no need for melee 2.0 to do that. I can still kill enemies back then with fang prime and orthos prime and now is no difference. But with no charged attacks.

[Warriorrogue]

I did T3 Survival with Volt and Fang Prime up to 30 min with decent rates, but sooner or later the combo bonus is just not stacking fast enough.

 

They have to give the combo more time when its high or make the bonus come in faster rates.

I managed to get to 50 with orthos prime personally. Pure melee. Most damage again.

But yeah, the combo could come in faster.

[Saenol]

 

I'm doing good 'cause I used to melee enemies even before Melee 2.0.

 

I used to use melee a lot before Melee 2.0, and I really do not like Melee 2.0.

 

Made it less viable, not more so, IMO. As others have stated, It's almost exactly the same, just with no charge attacks. Combos have proven useless outside of boss battles, because almost everything dies in one or two hit anyway with any decent weapon.

[UnderYourBed]

If you're a munchkin who limits himself to using only the most optimal method, it's unsurprising Melee 2.0 wouldn't impress you.

I for one am greatly enjoying slaughtering my enemies in style. That it made the formerly less-used melee weapons viable is also definitely welcome.

[marbatico]

If you're a munchkin who limits himself to using only the most optimal method, it's unsurprising Melee 2.0 wouldn't impress you.

I for one am greatly enjoying slaughtering my enemies in style. That it made the formerly less-used melee weapons viable is also definitely welcome.

i don't see the style, but perhaps that will chage when i finally get a stance mod...

 

for now all that happens is my enemies dissapearing in a cloud of red dust as i stab them while chaneling

[Bongever]

Want a real mele 2.0?Make mission where you can go melee only.Easy as that.Ofcourse,you gotta tweak enemies in that mission keeping this in mind.

 

That sounds killer. Id call that mission type "Gauntlet". Would be awesome if it was in an arena too.

 

But yeah 2.0 aint so bad. Pretty excited to see what the Stance Mod I got can do once im done crafting my Bo Staff.

[Xico.xide]

Deflecting bullets with a Skarna isn't space ninja enough for you?

man you have some issues, I was getting bored until I saw 2.0 in action.

you can still used guns or start chaining melee for some serious damage,

I was sold when I saw the back breaker finisher( had to change my pants for that one).

Hydroid I took an instant disliking to, bloody pirates what's next dinosaurs?

Probably those weird alpaca things is next

[RejectionOfFate]

Has anyone else noticed the lack of posts made in this thread by the OP?

 

Just me?

 

Carry on then.

[Darkmoone1]

Has anyone else noticed the lack of posts made in this thread by the OP?

 

Just me?

 

Carry on then.

Has anyone else noticed how this thread was buried for more than a week until you brought it back?

 

Just me? 

 

Carry on then.

[izzatuw]

Well, since there was a bump. Might as well tell my experience after using a new account.

Atm the best weapon as a starter is currently the sword. You can actually solo with Skana unpotatoed and with Pressure point and Fury only as a new person. You can make even the bigger enemies fall easily taking the heat off you. I did not have a stance either. The combos stack so it just seems to be the best weapon to progress with.

[LegioDamnus]

 

 

 

I used to use melee a lot before Melee 2.0, and I really do not like Melee 2.0.

 

Made it less viable, not more so, IMO. As others have stated, It's almost exactly the same, just with no charge attacks. Combos have proven useless outside of boss battles, because almost everything dies in one or two hit anyway with any decent weapon.

 

 

Wut? Melee 2.0 actually made me used my Ether Reaper. Channeling is awesome  and so are stances (Reaping Spiral and Tranquil Cleave are my favorite) I just got a Dragon Nikana and i @(*()$ love it. Combos are useless mostly i agree but i do have to say i like them when i'm surrounded by fifteen ancients threatening to rip my face up. ;P

[kaboomonme]

Combos are useless mostly i agree but i do have to say i like them when i'm surrounded by fifteen ancients threatening to rip my face up. ;P

This. Some combos are meant to be used against crowds rather than a single target, switch targets mid-combo, break combos to use spin attacks or jump attacks, then mix it up with regular swings. Makes the game flow feel amazing imo, don't see the problem with combos.

[LegioDamnus]

This. Some combos are meant to be used against crowds rather than a single target, switch targets mid-combo, break combos to use spin attacks or jump attacks, then mix it up with regular swings. Makes the game flow feel amazing imo, don't see the problem with combos.

 

Finally someone who agrees with me! All of my friends seem to think that they are a "bosses only" thing when they clearly are filled with AoE attacks! Why would they keep insisting to spend time hacking away at a boss when they get it wrong all the time when they are clearly meant for groups?