Builds Without Health/shields?

[Seox]

Heya fellow tenno,

 

I've been seeing a lot of people posting builds that don't feature redirection, vitality, or both lately, and I'm a bit shocked to see them. I solo all the time and have been playing for about a year now, so I feel pretty competent at the game. I kind of felt like I wasn't on the same level as some of these players at first, as I can't imagine running a frame without those two mods, and I'm not sure how they manage to stay on their feet with such low  health/shields in content where enemies can easily melt your face off.

 

I realized recently that these players possibly play with a 4 person team regularly and are probably not handling all of the incoming enemies alone, and that may explain some of it. Anyone here know of people who handle vitality/redirectionless builds solo? How do people manage these builds? How do they stay alive? I usually fight on the move/use cover, then hide somewhere if my shields are looking nasty before I can take permanent health damage and get back out there.

 

Thanks for the input and advice! Just looking to improve my game [:

[WarGrylls]

When they get juiced or 1-shot'd by light traps and enemies in a tough/nightmare run, they'll... hopefully... learn. I'm never without Vitality and Redirection, or Vigor, or both in many of my builds unless fighting theinfested and not in a grineer/nightmare zone... like a Vauban in ODD or something.

[Darzk]

Loki, Rhino, Nyx (sometimes) and Vauban (against infested) are the only frames I'd run without at least 1 hp/shield mod.

 

That said, I dont use all 3 on anything, really. Its mostly overkill when you can avoid most damage and quite a few frames can heal, or equilibrium.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Darzk

[Scherhardt]

I've never used shield nor health mods since I started playing. 

How I stay alive.

-Run alot. If possible shoot while doing so.

-Do corner shots.

-Be aware of enemy spawn points. Always watch your back.

-Progress cautiously when solo-ing.

-Broken lights, know where they are and avoid them.

-Avoid being cornered.

 

Most of the time I play Loki so, it's not really a problem running missions without those mods as I can just cast Decoy to redirect enemy fire.

On other frames tho you really need to be aware where your enemies spawn + those broken lights.

It's really big challenge to play the game like this. 50-60LVL Defense/Survivals feels like end game content to me.

[Orbister]

Well in my opinion any build that includes Rage must not include redirection, because it goes against the purpose of Rage itself, you get energy when health is damaged, so having "short" shields makes the effect more constant, this works great on my Oberon because he can convert energy to health, but i have tried it in Ash and Saryn too and it works pretty well too because even though they do not heal themselves more energy allows me to cast some powerful cc or "panic" skill if i need to, and off course more frequently.

Also if you have a small shield amount Fast deflection is useless too, because shields get to max in a short time.

 

Its weird how many players think that EVERY frame needs those mods because in any other game those would be tanking mods, and as this is an action game you can actually avoid damage, this game does not depend on turns or dice throwing if you don't get hit you don't get damaged, or if you DO get hit but not frequently enough for them to get your health you do not die. 

And even in "tanking" terms not all tanks are absorbtion tanks, some tanks are dodging tanks, and some are CC tanks, i think it all depends on your playstile and the potential of the frame you choose, if those modes were "mandatory" we would all be playing the same way :P

Edited March 14, 2014 by Orbister

[Si3g]

I generally don't use redirection or vitality, in my build exactly for the reason you said, I play with friends, how ever when I'm solo, I usually role with ash or excal who can spam  invis/blind and I never find myself getting hit.

[Virtus_Dei_Est]

you dont go out of your tenno house without a maxed vitality and maxed redirection, never.

 

anyone who makes a build without that is:

 

1_ crazy

 

2_a burden for the team

 

3_not doing high level content.

 

there, i said it.

[Orbister]

you dont go out of your tenno house without a maxed vitality and maxed redirection, never.

 

anyone who makes a build without that is:

 

1_ crazy

 

2_a burden for the team

 

3_not doing high level content.

 

there, i said it.

pfts... i dont use redirection and im always reviving people in public survival games...

 

it's all good if you like your redirection and vitality mods, love them! hug them! write love letters to them, but do not judge and insult others just because they don't do the same as you.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Orbister

[Guest]

It depends on the player OP, as you're probably seeing by the varied answers. Personally, I only use Vitality if I expect to find heavy Bleed procs, will be running a low-shield frame... or just have extra space in my build I don't know what to fill with. I'm not a "pro" by any stretch, though, and I stay away from that "endgame" survival/defense thing.

EDIT: I always use Redirection, though, and a Sentinel with Guardian on it.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Guest

[Seox]

Thanks for all the advice so far!

 

Sounds like there are a mix of factors - some frames can get away with less extra survivability, which makes sense. It seems that some people do indeed run with friends and experience less trouble.

 

To the people saying that damage can be avoided, I agree that there are ways to reduce incoming damage - it seems like there are some circumstances where you're absolutely going to get hit. If dodging attacks were so simple, nobody'd ever need these mods. Missions like survival in high tiers where you have enemies coming from all directions at all times come to mind. How do you guys handle things like that?

[Orbister]

Thanks for all the advice so far!

 

Sounds like there are a mix of factors - some frames can get away with less extra survivability, which makes sense. It seems that some people do indeed run with friends and experience less trouble.

 

To the people saying that damage can be avoided, I agree that there are ways to reduce incoming damage - it seems like there are some circumstances where you're absolutely going to get hit. If dodging attacks were so simple, nobody'd ever need these mods. Missions like survival in high tiers where you have enemies coming from all directions at all times come to mind. How do you guys handle things like that?

In my opinion it's not less survivavility, it's different survivavility.

 

For example as Ash you can spam smokebomb and if your sentinel is a shade you have a A LOT of survivavility... the only potential issue could be some big aoe like napalm guys or Ruk's fire attack... but with high vitality even if your whole shield gets depleted you can reposition yourself easily...

When i play Ash i kill napalm and the others that shoot rockets with my melee weapon, it's faster and easier...

 

What frame do you usually use?

Edited March 14, 2014 by Orbister

[Seox]

In my opinion it's not less survivavility, it's different survivavility.

 

For example as Ash you can spam smokebomb and if your sentinel is a shade you have a A LOT of survivavility... the only potential issue could be some big aoe like napalm guys or Ruk's fire attack... but with high vitality even if your whole shield gets depleted you can reposition yourself easily...

When i play Ash i kill napalm and the others that shoot rockets with my melee weapon, it's faster and easier...

 

What frame do you usually use?

 

I usually use Rhino/Excalibro/Oberon. Rhino obviously has armor and iron skin going for him, and I use iron skin to help me mitigate small attacks that'd prevent my shields from coming back, so I could see dropping vitality on paper, but I always feel uneasy about having such low health (bleed procs/etc) because I can never be sure I'll have the energy to clear it with IS when I need to.

 

Excalibur and Oberon don't really seem to have anything that'll help me directly survive (obviously radial blind/ulting will stop enemies for a bit) but my shields can't come back up if I'm being hit by enemies from across the map in multiple directions despite where I choose to cover.

 

Any tips?

[newnar]

I've got quite a few builds that can do without any of these mods AND can take tons and tons of damage.

Nyx Absorb build
Valkyr Permysteria build
Loki/Ash Permvisibility build
Trinity Permblessing build
Rhino Sprint-Stomp build
Frost used to be able to as well using the miniglobe build(using narrow-minded)

These builds can do it to a certain degree but not all the time:

Super-long-range MP build for Nova
Stealth sniper build for Banshee(no ult, shade sentinel for protection, for soloing ONLY)
Bastillespam build for Vauban
Permurbulence build for Zephyr(reason why this doesn't always work is that it doesn't block melee nor does it block ALL ranged attacks)
Permalink build for Trinity

Edited March 14, 2014 by newnar

[Scherhardt]

Thanks for all the advice so far!

 

Sounds like there are a mix of factors - some frames can get away with less extra survivability, which makes sense. It seems that some people do indeed run with friends and experience less trouble.

 

To the people saying that damage can be avoided, I agree that there are ways to reduce incoming damage - it seems like there are some circumstances where you're absolutely going to get hit. If dodging attacks were so simple, nobody'd ever need these mods. Missions like survival in high tiers where you have enemies coming from all directions at all times come to mind. How do you guys handle things like that?

-Find a high ledge with cover. There are ledges near ceilings you can get to, look for them.

    -Let your allies do the tanking lol.

-Slide attacks lets you dodge and kill a few if your melee build is strong enough.

-Good aim lets you survive. Headshots everytime.

[Iacon]

I only  use vigor

[Seox]

-Find a high ledge with cover. There are ledges near ceilings you can get to, look for them.

    -Let your allies do the tanking lol.

-Slide attacks lets you dodge and kill a few if your melee build is strong enough.

-Good aim lets you survive. Headshots everytime.

 

These are all things that I currently do, so it sounds like we're on the same page. Like I said before, it can be difficult to retreat and let my shields come back up when I'm playing survival and have enemies at more than one angle (there isn't always cover that I can find that will protect me long enough)

[Virtus_Dei_Est]

pfts... i dont use redirection and im always reviving people in public survival games...

 

it's all good if you like your redirection and vitality mods, love them! hug them! write love letters to them, but do not judge and insult others just because they don't do the same as you.

 

i doubt that, but is ok, live in danger mate!

 

would love to do some survival with you, lets say 50 minutes in a T3, just for the giggles.

 

also what frame do you use? valkyr, trinity, rhino?

 

because thats the more important part, send a nova to fight without these mods and tell me how that goes.

 

also to the OP, you can use the rage + quick thinking combo, even nerfed will save your &#! a lot if you dont want to use vitality and redirection.

[DaftMeat]

you dont go out of your tenno house without a maxed vitality and maxed redirection, never.

 

anyone who makes a build without that is:

 

1_ crazy

 

2_a burden for the team

 

3_not doing high level content.

 

there, i said it.

 

On Loki?

 

What a waste of mod points ...

Edited March 14, 2014 by DaftMeat

[Orbister]

i doubt that, but is ok, live in danger mate!

 

would love to do some survival with you, lets say 50 minutes in a T3, just for the giggles.

 

also what frame do you use? valkyr, trinity, rhino?

 

because thats the more important part, send a nova to fight without these mods and tell me how that goes.

 

also to the OP, you can use the rage + quick thinking combo, even nerfed will save your &#! a lot if you dont want to use vitality and redirection.

lol i don't live in danger, i DO use redirection i have a big pool of health... im not saying nobody should use any of them i think that sometimes both are not necesary and i do not use quick thinking combo i prefer to manage my survivavily myself...

 

i see it this way, imagine that you have 2 soldiers they both have 60 dollars each to spend on gear, one is infantery and the other a sniper

 

in the store they sell kevlar vests for 60 dollars and sniper scopes for 60 dollars also

 

would you buy them both kevlar vests?...

 

Also i will not reply you you anymore because you keep insulting... which is sad because nobody is attacking you or trying to prove you wrong, you are the one saying that anyone who does not use both those mods is a liability with those simple words your are insulting a BIG portion of the community... and i would not play with you for your "giggles" just because i don't think that the intelligence you are showing right here makes you a reliable partner : D 

 

Have a good night sir.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Orbister

[Seox]

We've all got different ways of managing survivability, and I can respect that what's comfortable for me may not be the same for others; Please keep the advice coming and don't sweat what others think! I'd like to see what different people consider when it comes to staying on their feet.

[escape123]

health / shields are useless compared to modding for your energy/abilities. particularly at endgame you get one shot anyways.

 

I'd only use high health when combined with rage for warframes like valkyr, saryn or oberon

 

P.S. for warframes with no defense skills at all like nova, I can see its benefit more than say a trinity who is always invincible

Edited March 14, 2014 by escape123

[Orbister]

We've all got different ways of managing survivability, and I can respect that what's comfortable for me may not be the same for others; Please keep the advice coming and don't sweat what others think! I'd like to see what different people consider when it comes to staying on their feet.

that is exactly the point , i think that we have to mod the way it feels comfortable to us, thats why i got angry at the guy that said that anyone not using them is a "burden to the team" i would use redirection, vitality and vigor if i had some more slots : P

 

And i don't think that anyone who does not use those mods is against them, it's just that sometimes the game makes you choose, in my case i'm completely dependant on vitality : P.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Orbister

[ntyd1s]

 

2_a burden for the team

 

3_not doing high level content.

 

 

Pretty much sums it up... being reckless damage maker is not a proper team contribution.

[SquirmyBurrito]

you dont go out of your tenno house without a maxed vitality and maxed redirection, never.

 

anyone who makes a build without that is:

 

1_ crazy

 

2_a burden for the team

 

3_not doing high level content.

 

there, i said it.

 

You left out choice 4. Not a scrub.

A Loki doing really high level content is going to get oneshotted regardless of whether or not you bothered wasting those mod slots. So the smart way to play is to mod for those things that will save your life.

Invisibility+Radial Disarm+Decoy+Box= I'm invincible. To do this I need all my mod slots, I don't have room for two useless mods.

 

To OP:

The best advice I can give you is to memorize room layouts. The best way to stay alive is to completely avoid damage altogether.

Oh, and always pay attention to your surroundings.

Edited March 14, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Fact of the matter is, it ain't your shields or health that keep you alive against the enemies, it's your abilities, which leads us to:

 

Vitality on Rage based builds and Redirection is negligible, only equip it if you have absolutely no other useful mod to put in the free slot, corrupted mods, plus flow, streamline, rush, focus, continuity, constitution, sometimes equilibrium, sometimes steel fiber (frost and valkyr) leave no room for it.

 

source: got all of them max ranked and maxed frames.

Edited March 14, 2014 by (PS4)DanteVincent

[Orbister]

Pretty much sums it up... being reckless damage maker is not a proper team contribution.

a reckless damage maker?... what thread are you reading?...