Lets Get Rid Of Ironskin

[Briareos]

Take away the one purely defensive ability from the game's main tank? BRILLIANT. :P

[(PSN)Klein_TK]

Getting rid of Rhino's iron skin is just like getting rid of Trinitys Link or Ashes Smokescreen or Excaliburs Blind. They are all crucial to themselves. Rhino really needs it. Heres my reason for this (me and my clan do this a lot).

 

WHen you do survivals, its dificult for most warframes to get into the hour mark. Rhino makes this easy when you also have a Trinity, a Vaubon, and a Nekros. Trinity makes sure Rhino doesnt die when his Iron Skin is broken off. Vaubon is the trap guy, protecting Trinity and Nekros, Nekros is used for added support with Shadows as well as Desicrate (for the added health and energy). Now, Rhino is the brute of the force. The TANK. WIthout his iron skin, he wouldnt be much of a tank. His iron skin helps him survive against those 6 bombards and 5 shield lancers. He helps take down most of the force. THis combo got me and my clan to 2.5 hours. Without iron skin, it would be about 30 minutes. -.-  Keep Iron Skin. Please.

[Rakosta_Kai]

rhino is loaded up with so many pro points it's hard to find fault with it.

 

good HP, good shield, good armour, newest version is good speed, and his ability set is some sort of list of perfection

 

he can charge  straight ahead, useful for evasion, frontal damage and a speed boost

he can stomp hard enough to slow time...because physics works that way. the result being a longish duration radial stun or flat out killing everything near him

he can boost damage from all his weapons and the team's if they stick close

and this one bothers me immensely, he can just whack a bunch of additional health on.

 

there is no con points to rhino. even his abilities lack negative aspects. there is no tradeoff.

 

personally i can deal with the first three. you can argue they are mildly situational. charge obviously becomes nothing more than mobility after a certain point. stomp is pure damage early on and pure utility in high content. boosting damage is good for the whole team and scales well.

 

but ironskin serves no point.

 

it's most effective at low levels. but rhino already has good shields, armour and health. he doesn't need more

it's not effective at "beyond max level" content making the skill pointless there too.

 

effectively the only thing ironskin is doing is breeding lazy players. players that focus more on keeping ironskin up and less on just finding cover when their shields drop.

 

so... either drop ironskin and put something else in it's place  OR add a substantial downside to it.

 

iron skin drops speed by a percentage propertional to its power. the more covered in iron you are the slower you move. this makes ironskin into a situational boost in defense not a macro'd key that casts ironskin every 12 seconds in case it ran out.you take a hit on mobility and if the situation doesn't destroy your plates you may need to use charge to keep up with the team until you can take the rest of the hitpoints. a simple change like that forces some intelligent use of a currently over spammed "skill"

 

for the record i also oppose turbulence, snow globe, trinity, invincible hysteria and the other stay alive forever abilities. i do like valkyr and zephyr but you wont see me use hysteria or turbulence.

While you are ostensibly imposing your playstyle onto others, your post has some left handed merit.

I say it's left handed because you are another player fixated on an ideal that never existed. The solution you have offered is one that is ham-handed and completely lacking in anything resembling balance.

But...

There is very little "Risk vs.Reward" for most of the skills used in this game and that really needs to be changed.

 

Here's the funny thing about your post and many others....

You are screaming about changing Rhino Prime and/or the Vanguard Helmet for the sake of balance.

Rhino Prime's speed will probably get nerfed (If it's not a typo...still see no proof of a difference there) Vanguard might get nerfed (oh.. the box that will open, if it does)

But the arguments made to get things to that point are all about balance... Risk vs Reward....a potential downside to each frame and its' abilities.

Things none of them have right now other than Banshee and Ash.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it now... Be very careful what you wish for, as DE reads this stuff and they do take it into consideration.

Grineeer has already stated he wasn't happy with the balance in a previous livestream.

He already said when asked about other nerfs to staple skills right after the Snow Globe nerf that changes were coming.

 

Be careful what you ask for in the name of balance, it has unintended consequences.

[COOKINGPAPA]

I actually use Iron Skin for the knockdown/stun resistance rather than the "damage sponge". Honestly, if you're careful enough you should know how to take cover and avoid enemy fire. At higher tiers, you just really want to avoid knockdown because that's what leaves you vulnerable to enemy attack the most.

 

Funny thing is, we get mods that resist knockdown (Sure footed, Fortitude stacked max to 80% resistance). Sure, they do take up space and all, but if you can place it, I guess you could question Iron Skin's purpose to a further extent.

 

However my current opinion states that its good as it is. Nothing's unbearably wrong with Iron Skin - the issue is how easy it is to get Rhino but I believe that's not very related to the current topic. Also, damage absorbed by the Iron Skin can be increased by Strength mods to a.. Good extent.

[DeusModum]

Rhino has definitely created lazy players. But i would say that is mostly due to its Vanguard helmet. The moment you get that helmet Rhino's major con is suddenly removed. He is suddenly able to keep up with majority of the other warframes. And once you place Rush on him, he makes warframe become easyframe. 

 

HOWEVER, that does not mean iron skin should be removed. I personally chose the aesthetic option and went with the Thrakk helmet. Without that crazy speed boost I take significantly more damage. Rushing past danger isnt a common option anymore. Without Iron Skin Rhino would lose its role as tank which the game needs. Dont get rid of Iron Skin. Instead a more viable option would be to remove those extra stat boosts on Alternate helmets and turn it completely into aesthetic helmets like they are doing now.

 

Edit: WIthout those extra speed boost stats you definitely want to keep moving out of danger even with Iron Skin on.

Edited March 14, 2014 by DeusModum

[Dark5eiD]

My suggestion: Don't change Iron Skin.

 

If i feel like not trying, i take Rhino.

If i feel like like soloing some T2 easy mode, i take Rhino.

Rhino as it is may not have many downsides but does it really need more? Iron Skin take aggro from enemies, it prevent cc on you, help revives teammates without making you an easy target, to me these are all qualities that i like to have in a team, i don't understand that constant need to try to nerf everything in a PVE co-op game...

 

Beside, Rhino is only "OP" in early/mid-game, in end-game however, that's a completely different matter, Iron Skin is no longer "God-mode", Charge is only useful as an evasion skill, but even then... and Stomp lose a lot of its damage dealing aspect and become mostly a form of cc. Add his buff and he's on par with a lot of other Warframes suited for "end-game".

 

Again, what's up with that obsession with nerfing everything in a PVE co-op game? Let's just make all Warframes equally terribles, case solved, right?

agreed

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

No, that's a terrible idea. Rhino has issues, but that's to do with the Bacon Helm/ base sprint speed cripplingly low. Not, Iron skin. 

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

iron skin should cap every damage you take to a specific number, lets say 40, for a duration x, making rhino effective at tanking regardless of enemy level. also fix the vanguard helm and leave rhino primes sprint speed at 1.0

[cd33]

rhino is loaded up with so many pro points it's hard to find fault with it.

 

good HP, good shield, good armour, newest version is good speed, and his ability set is some sort of list of perfection

 

he can charge  straight ahead, useful for evasion, frontal damage and a speed boost

he can stomp hard enough to slow time...because physics works that way. the result being a longish duration radial stun or flat out killing everything near him

he can boost damage from all his weapons and the team's if they stick close

and this one bothers me immensely, he can just whack a bunch of additional health on.

 

there is no con points to rhino. even his abilities lack negative aspects. there is no tradeoff.

 

personally i can deal with the first three. you can argue they are mildly situational. charge obviously becomes nothing more than mobility after a certain point. stomp is pure damage early on and pure utility in high content. boosting damage is good for the whole team and scales well.

 

but ironskin serves no point.

 

it's most effective at low levels. but rhino already has good shields, armour and health. he doesn't need more

it's not effective at "beyond max level" content making the skill pointless there too.

 

effectively the only thing ironskin is doing is breeding lazy players. players that focus more on keeping ironskin up and less on just finding cover when their shields drop.

 

so... either drop ironskin and put something else in it's place  OR add a substantial downside to it.

 

iron skin drops speed by a percentage propertional to its power. the more covered in iron you are the slower you move. this makes ironskin into a situational boost in defense not a macro'd key that casts ironskin every 12 seconds in case it ran out.you take a hit on mobility and if the situation doesn't destroy your plates you may need to use charge to keep up with the team until you can take the rest of the hitpoints. a simple change like that forces some intelligent use of a currently over spammed "skill"

 

for the record i also oppose turbulence, snow globe, trinity, invincible hysteria and the other stay alive forever abilities. i do like valkyr and zephyr but you wont see me use hysteria or turbulence.

Lol no... He is a utility frame, so he acts as a sort of jack of all trades, but he specializes in defense. Stomp is used for he stun, charge is used for the knock down, Iron skin is used so you can take fire away from teammates and not get knocked down. Roar is just beneficial all around. DE needs to make more frames like him and less caster frames. Frames that you can take on any mission and ALL 4 SKILLS are useful. There are countless throw away skills in this game and i'm glad to say Rhino might not have one. The Best part is although he may be one of the most popular frames players will still branch out in order to play a different play style. I mean that as he is not soo far ahead of the other frames that no one is playing other frames.

[notionphil]

.....Rhino is one of the few frames that can even survive higher levels....

 

 

I'm not in favor of a nerf, but....that doesn't sound like a problem to you?

[Kuestenjung]

Sorry OP, but what are you talking about? Because you think there is no contra on Rhinos abilities DE should change iron skin?

 

To all who sais "Rhino needs his iron skin", that´s not true. I am playing Rhino too and I love my new Rhino Prime, he just looks freaking awesome, but you can play the Rhino almost without it, even in high level.

 

I almost forgot about one contra from iron skin, imo it destroys the look of Rhino, that´s why I am barely using it.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Kuestenjung

[RustyNaps]

Nah Rhino sorta needs it to be unique.

 

But players will soon notice there are better tanks. Valkyr is slightly better because of her huge armor rating (max 2,000) and Warcry (It's like M prime but without the explosion and Armor buff for team and debuff for enemies).

 

But I'd actually love to see Rhinos Ironskin have the same mechanics as the new Frost Snowglobe. 

[GONZI2013]

you clearly never experienced old iron skin. Iron skin is fine the way it is

[Splatter_Puppet]

Iron Skin is one of the few abilities I can cast during extremely high levels that allows me to revive teammates without being mowed down myself.

During those high level missions it doesn't last very long either even with a maxed Power Strength build. Anyone using Iron Skin during mid to low level missions is just being lazy, and that wasn't what it was designed for.

 

IMO, if DE ever decides to nerf anything involving Rhino again, I'd say nerf the Vanguard helmet, and maybe move his parts to a higher level planet like Pluto. Or even put his parts up on alerts like Vauban. I'd be fine if they removed the damage from stomp and made the stun duration last longer, since I don't use it for damage anyway, although  many people do enjoy the damage, so that would have to be addressed. They could also raise his MR to 6 or 7 as well (it's currently at 3 I believe).

 

Either way, I don't think Iron Skin, or even Rhino as a whole, is an issue at the moment, I think the fact that other frames are horribly lacking right now is the bigger problem.

[WARLOCKE]

rhino is loaded up with so many pro points it's hard to find fault with it.

 

good HP, good shield, good armour, newest version is good speed, and his ability set is some sort of list of perfection

 

he can charge  straight ahead, useful for evasion, frontal damage and a speed boost

he can stomp hard enough to slow time...because physics works that way. the result being a longish duration radial stun or flat out killing everything near him

he can boost damage from all his weapons and the team's if they stick close

and this one bothers me immensely, he can just whack a bunch of additional health on.

 

there is no con points to rhino. even his abilities lack negative aspects. there is no tradeoff.

 

personally i can deal with the first three. you can argue they are mildly situational. charge obviously becomes nothing more than mobility after a certain point. stomp is pure damage early on and pure utility in high content. boosting damage is good for the whole team and scales well.

 

but ironskin serves no point.

 

it's most effective at low levels. but rhino already has good shields, armour and health. he doesn't need more

it's not effective at "beyond max level" content making the skill pointless there too.

 

effectively the only thing ironskin is doing is breeding lazy players. players that focus more on keeping ironskin up and less on just finding cover when their shields drop.

 

so... either drop ironskin and put something else in it's place  OR add a substantial downside to it.

 

iron skin drops speed by a percentage propertional to its power. the more covered in iron you are the slower you move. this makes ironskin into a situational boost in defense not a macro'd key that casts ironskin every 12 seconds in case it ran out.you take a hit on mobility and if the situation doesn't destroy your plates you may need to use charge to keep up with the team until you can take the rest of the hitpoints. a simple change like that forces some intelligent use of a currently over spammed "skill"

 

for the record i also oppose turbulence, snow globe, trinity, invincible hysteria and the other stay alive forever abilities. i do like valkyr and zephyr but you wont see me use hysteria or turbulence.

 

 

Rhino is fine lrn2ply.

[ExplodingStars]

Nah...

 

Let's keep Ironskin k?

[c_man_ninja_gun]

Can people really not tell that this is a troll?

[Monolake]

Remove the unbalanced nonsense that is Vanguard speed bonus first. 

 

Ironskin is kind of an easy mode cause it gives CC immunity, which allows Rhino to ignore good chunk of gameplay mechanics (including the recent obnoxious addition - light zap traps). If anything should be done to IronSkin then it should be stripped of CC immunity.

[Oizen]

They should nerf frost again

[CephalonShy]

Let's not.

[Silver_Fox75]

First you destroy the viability of my venomous lover Saryn

You call the nerf sharks to devour my Vauban and his Bastille

You mutilate my once glorious phoenix known as ember

But you will NOT touch my iron skin clad juggernaut Rhino!!

[Rakosta_Kai]

Remove the unbalanced nonsense that is Vanguard speed bonus first. 

 

Ironskin is kind of an easy mode cause it gives CC immunity, which allows Rhino to ignore good chunk of gameplay mechanics (including the recent obnoxious addition - light zap traps). If anything should be done to IronSkin then it should be stripped of CC immunity.

Nerfing Vanguard opens the door for nerfs to the other alternate helmets (many of which actually affect powers)... Let's not.

The CC defense from Ironskin is what Ironskin is for, not damage mitigation.

Frankly, I think Frost and Saryn (moreso Frost) need it worked into their ability-sets too.

[TempestFoxNZ]

I think the only thing I can possible accept in this post is the speed reduction because Rhino prime/vanguard/rush makes you nearly as fast if not faster than loki.

 

^this. I finally finished building my Rhino yesterday and thanks to the event affinity boost got him to 30 in no time. The biggest thing (by far) I noticed compared to my normal Rhino is the speed. With vanguard and rush I had no trouble keeping up with the likes of Loki while still being able to fulfill the tank role.

 

In the more fed-ex type missions I pretty much get there first taking no damage.

 

I don't think he needs to be changed though. He's a prime frame and there will always be less people who have him (and only a fraction of players will buy premium to get him) - if he was available for credits it would be a different story.

[Yaerion]

Agreed with 1P.

Rhino is far ahead the other warframes.

Buff the others, or tweak Rhino as the 1P said, or lock him to one of the highest mastery rank of all frames.

He currently feels totally unfair compared to the others. He is well done at all points, no counterparts. Why should others have such a lot of constraints while he doesn't have any?

Edited March 14, 2014 by Yaer

[WARLOCKE]

Agreed with 1P.

Rhino is far ahead the other warframes.

Buff the others, or tweak Rhino as the 1P said, or lock him to one of the highest mastery rank of all frames.

He currently feels totally unfair compared to the others. He is well done at all points, no counterparts. Why should others have such a lot of constraints while he doesn't have any?

 

Rhino is fine lrn2play lvl 20+ content