Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[cyrus106]

Volt's ult is the most worthless in the game. Everybody says its fine because they dont main volt so it isnt their problem :(

I dont even want a press 4 to win nuke. I honestly want a unique ult for volt

Edited January 29, 2015 by cyrus106

[Azamagon]

Well, some tweaking ideas to Volt's ulti then! :D

* No longer is an "expanding wave" of electricity. Rather, it becomes an aura of electric power, lasting only a few seconds (As an aura following him, it synergizes way better with Speed!)

* Any environmental electronics function similar to now - Get hit by his aura = Releases an independant zap of electricity

* Electric Shield counts as an electronic device, but can only discharge once per Overload cast (and doesn't remove the shield(s) either). Now he can bring the electronical discharge part of his ulti with him anywhere!

* Bonus: Shock could maybe get powered up a bit during Overload? Such as, releasing several Shocks, rather than just one, per Shock cast.

* Possibly give it pretty much an instant cast

 

Simple, it doesn't need more than those kind of tweaks.

 

This made me realize another thing - Just like Volt has situational use of electronical devices for his ulti, so does Mag and her Shield Polarize. On non-Corpus/Corrupted enemies, augments such as Shield Transference is 100% useless against Grineer and Infested (Incorrect). What I'd like to suggest then, to make such powers less situational (just like I just suggested for Volt's Overload and Electric Shield combo):

* A target afflicted by Bullet Attractor is considered to have X amount of Shields (whatever value fitting and balanced) for the sake of Shield Polarize (and Shield Transference, partially). Can only benefit from these "shields" once per Bullet Attractor cast.

Quite simple way of making it less situational :)

Edited January 29, 2015 by Azamagon

[taiiat]

so does Mag and her Shield Polarize.

On non-Corpus/Corrupted enemies, augments such as Shield Transference is 100% useless against Grineer and Infested.

 

* A target afflicted by Bullet Attractor is considered to have X amount of Shields (whatever value fitting and balanced) for the sake of Shield Polarize and Shield Transference. Can only benefit from these "shields" once per Bullet Attractor cast.

while that sounds neat, and i'd say why not, Shield Transference gives you Overshields whether there's any Enemies around or not.

[Azamagon]

while that sounds neat, and i'd say why not, Shield Transference gives you Overshields whether there's any Enemies around or not.

... how did I miss that? xD

Well, ok, I stand corrected. But then at least for the sake of the offensive use of Shield Polarize :)

[cyrus106]

I like this synergy power idea for overload

[RealPandemonium]

Volt's ult is the most worthless in the game. Everybody says its fine because they dont main volt so it isnt their problem :(

I dont even want a press 4 to win nuke. I honestly want a unique ult for volt

A useful wide-range stun and potentially huge damage even without electronics around if enemies are closely clustered.  Chokepoints, aggro magnets, and Vortex/Tornado are your friends on this one.  They should give him an augment for Shock that pulls enemies together so he can finish them off with Overload. 

 

(Because of guaranteed electric proc's 50% AOE, damage of Overload on each enemy is damage + damage * (.5 * number of enemies near that enemy.)

[Archwizard]

I still can't believe how this guy has no problem with Volt's ult

Volt's ult is the most worthless in the game. Everybody says its fine because they dont main volt so it isnt their problem :(

 

1) Crush and Avalanche are currently fighting over who's more useless right now, Overload doesn't hold a candle to their grievances. Sorry.

2) Overload deals additional damage from the Electrical procs to surrounding enemies and stuns for about 8 seconds at a time, as detailed by Pandemonium above.

3) I do main Volt. Speed + Berserker + Swirling Tiger; I call it the Thunderbolt Zoren combo. My only issues with him relate to how Electric Shield plays into his kit.

 

The only problem Volt's damage has is the same that every frame bar Loki, Nova and Trinity has: flat amounts of direct damage. That has already been covered in the OP.

 

I understand that several players believe, with Nekros and Ember "out of the way", just about every frame is free game.

Except, I won't consider the work on Nekros quite finished until Desecrate is addressed, and neither should you.

[RealPandemonium]

2) Overload deals additional damage from the Electrical procs to surrounding enemies and stuns for about 8 seconds at a time, as detailed by Pandemonium above.

Actually, Overload will stun for fewer than 8 seconds in most cases.  This is because Electric procs that overlap in quick succession don't refresh the stun.  It depends on whether the stun succeeds in the first place on each pulse (due to various overriding animations) and the number of electronics present.

[AlphaHorseman]

Fix my Frost up, please DE. Fix my frosty up!

 

8 months...8 BLOODY MONTHS! Since that nerf. And all we have to show for it is minimal utility in Ice Wave and a minuscule AoE in Freeze.

Edited January 29, 2015 by AlphaHorseman

[Archwizard]

Actually, Overload will stun for fewer than 8 seconds in most cases.  This is because Electric procs that overlap in quick succession don't refresh the stun.  It depends on whether the stun succeeds in the first place on each pulse (due to various overriding animations) and the number of electronics present.

 

It was an approximation.

[RealPandemonium]

It was an approximation.

I'm not going after you or anything; just setting the record straight so that people don't claim that we're embellishing Volt's strengths.  The typical stun time appears to be around 2.5 seconds with no electronics present.  

Edited January 30, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[taiiat]

I'm not going after you or anything; just setting the record straight so that people don't claim that we're embellishing Volt's strengths.  The typical stun time appears to be around 2.5 seconds with no electronics present.  

it wouldn't be the first time if i died shortly after casting Overload, and i look around and see that exactly ZERO of the Enemies got an Electric Effect.

 

which honestly is really weird, because Shock always works.

 

 

 

Edit:

and i don't think i'll ever be satisfied with Overload until it has Lightning Bolts that come from the sky/ceiling that make 'Electric Explosions' and other cool looking stuff.

 

Synergy with the other Abilities would be great too.

 

 

matches the theme and it'd be the closest thing to a Valhalle themeish thing that we'd have.

(since Warframe references Norse Mythology too, not just Greek Mythology, and i'm sure i've seen references to a couple other belief systems as well).

Edited January 30, 2015 by taiiat

[Archwizard]

So, having run Nekros a few times today, my results thus far:

 

Soul Punch, while slightly easier to use on-the-run, is still frustrating to have to target (but then, so are Smite, Venom, EV, MC, etc.); admittedly, I was deceived early on with the ease of casts almost leading me to believe it was totally free-aim, but that was in the middle of a consistent stream of enemies, and still had a hidden cooldown slowing me down between casts. 

The big issue it still has is that its AoE is inconsistent - when activated, there were several scenarios where casting it would result in an enemy to either side of my target being ragdolled with them, but just as many without any incident beyond the first target regardless of how tightly packed a group was, and rarely any dealing damage to foes behind the first target.

There was precisely one scenario (on an Infested defense) where casting Soul Punch caused damage numbers to jump around for about 5 seconds. I'll consider this a freak occurrence, and an extreme outlier to my results.

 

Terrify feels much better to wield, but I had at least one suspicious scenario where it appeared to wear off about 20 seconds early. Another freak occurrence, I suppose, since I was never able to reproduce it.

The issue remains of enemy speed while affected, however. With melee assist enabled (this may be the main culprit, given Nekros' slightly increased speed), I found myself chasing after a lone Scorpion who was literally running in circles from its effects for nearly 10 seconds whilst swinging away the whole time (before I headed her off and she ran into my sword, of course).

 

Shadows needs more testing - I've never really had an issue with their tangibility before, which is the main new feature for them. Problem with running public matches is that there's always someone there to steal their kills, so it's hard to measure their output.

I've still noticed the AI being precisely the same, however. Patrolling one area, unable to spot enemies merely 10 feet away. Trying to melee enemies off to the side from the top of the ramp. Trying to hide in the middle of a firefight.

 

All in all, the changes were mostly just quality of life, while still doing very little to the issues that have actually been plaguing Nekros.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

From my "Why Turbulence is Still Completely Broken" thread:

Why Turbulence is Still Completely Broken: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/383487-why-zephyrs-turbulence-is-still-completely-broken/

 

Edit: Bombards are Bulls***

While playing a T4 Survival mission, I noticed that approximately every single Bombard rocket was hitting me directly, even when I had Turbulence up. The only way I could avoid being hit was to quickly dodge and hope the homing formula felt merciful.

 

I have two theories as to why Turbulence has absolutely no effect on Bombard rockets. In my testing, I have found evidence that supports both theories. I do not know if this also applies to Grineer Bombards or just to Corrupted ones, as all the testing I did was in the Void.

 

Theory one:

The Bombard rocket is not being deflected when it hits the inner radius. Instead, the game is putting an accuracy loss on the Bombard, but because of the homing, the accuracy loss does nothing. Basically, the game thinks the Bombard has a hitscan weapon.

 

While in the Void, I repeatedly saw Bombard rockets coming out of the launcher at an extremely weird angle, before immediately curving around and hitting me.

 

Theory two (the more likely one):

 

Turbulence's inner radius is deflecting the rocket, but because of the homing mechanic, the rocket is either surpassing the deflection, or is immediately curving around and hitting me after it has been deflected.

 

During my testing, I did see Bombard rockets being deflected when they got near me, but somehow, that didn't stop me from being directly hit every time. The reason I say that this theory is the more likely of the two is because what I witnessed in the first theory may have been the inner radius deflecting the rocket as soon as it was fired.

 

This problem can be fixed with one simple change: After hitting Turbulence's inner radius, Bombard rockets lose their homing capability. This would make it impossible to be directly hit with a Bombard rocket while Turbulence is up as the developers intended, or at least extremely unlikely if the suggested changes further up are made.

 

[Nikbis]

H everone !
So, I came to the feedback forum to see if someone else has some trouble with Valkyr's Hysteria. Glad to see it is.
How many frames needs to stop playing and wait for a spell to fade ? Well there was Limbo's Cataclysm witch can be deactivated now.
I would really like to have a switch off on Hysteria.

Being stucked with these low-range-low-damage claws is painfull (I'm a CQC player with a fully modded Jat Kittag, feel the pain with me) !

 

ps : ...Or... Let me use my Jat Kittag under Hysteria ?... No ?... Nevermind :p

[Archwizard]

 

From my "Why Turbulence is Still Completely Broken" thread:

Why Turbulence is Still Completely Broken: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/383487-why-zephyrs-turbulence-is-still-completely-broken/

 

 

Weirdly, I've been seeing Bombard rockets taking weird angles even without a Zephyr in the party; saw a rocket do about a 270-degree turn yesterday. I think their firing is somehow borked.

The second half would be explained by the same reason rockets bypass cover, Snow Globes and Electric Shields: Explosions have natural punch through, and the explosives have a hair trigger to them.

[CapedBaldy]

Nekros SotD is somewhat viable no due to the sheer numbers buff. The amount of damage Shadows can pump out is just ridiculous in comparison to the regular unit. It seems that power strength affects damage multipliers.

[cyrus106]

1) Crush and Avalanche are currently fighting over who's more useless right now, Overload doesn't hold a candle to their grievances. Sorry.

2) Overload deals additional damage from the Electrical procs to surrounding enemies and stuns for about 8 seconds at a time, as detailed by Pandemonium above.

3) I do main Volt. Speed + Berserker + Swirling Tiger; I call it the Thunderbolt Zoren combo. My only issues with him relate to how Electric Shield plays into his kit.

 

The only problem Volt's damage has is the same that every frame bar Loki, Nova and Trinity has: flat amounts of direct damage. That has already been covered in the OP.

 

I understand that several players believe, with Nekros and Ember "out of the way", just about every frame is free game.

Except, I won't consider the work on Nekros quite finished until Desecrate is addressed, and neither should you.

I love how you said that about his ult,, then told me you run a electric shield + speed build, implying that overload isnt good enough to use in your playstyle.

 

Also, everybody saying that it's some great CC ability doesnt realize that it's glitched and that any enemy that is performing an action such as taking cover ignores the CC proc from electricity and shoots you anyway. The damage is &!$$-poor, electronics are one-use, and the cc is negligable. Stop defending this crappy ultimate. Frost's avalance is actually very stong and can work well as a nuke build. Mag's crush may be crap but she has the only infinite scaling damage power in the game, shield polarize.

Edited January 31, 2015 by cyrus106

[Archwizard]

I love how you said that about his ult,, then told me you run a electric shield + speed build, implying that overload isnt good enough to use in your playstyle.

 

Also, everybody saying that it's some great CC ability doesnt realize that it's glitched and that any enemy that is performing an action such as taking cover ignores the CC proc from electricity and shoots you anyway. The damage is &!$$-poor, electronics are one-use, and the cc is negligable. Stop defending this crappy ultimate. Frost's avalance is actually very stong and can work well as a nuke build. Mag's crush may be crap but she has the only infinite scaling damage power in the game, shield polarize.

 

Ah, the "you could never understand my problems for arbitrary reasons" approach.

 

I actually run a balanced build for Volt (given his Jack of All Trades penchant), with a personal preference toward Speed in gameplay because I prefer melee attacks. I use Overload any time I need a burst hit (and I have a reflex of tapping it when I need a moment to revive teammates), and it works each time.

 

It's not simply a defense, it's facts. Overload deals 900 damage, but it also uses the Electric procs, dealing 50% additional damage for each enemy nearby; that second portion is based on the same phenomena that made Molecular Prime so powerful, by turning every enemy within range into another bomb. With even 2 enemies bundled with each other, that's 1350 damage, before you get to the electronics breaking; with 5 enemies bundled, double that.

 

Never said it was a 'great' CC like Chaos or Vortex. But it's decent, more reliable than others I can name (and did). The stuns make for an excellent opener on enemies who normally counter melee, ie heavy units with radial blasts or poisonous Infested, who cannot get those attacks off.

 

I will say I agree that the electronics permanently breaking is a slight problem. Perhaps electronics should regenerate after a period? 60 second delayed backup generators...?

Otherwise, as I said: The problem with its damage is the same that could be said of any ability, an inability to scale up.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Archwizard

[geninrising]

100% behind you on this thread Archwizard! Keep it up man. We are committed to battering at the gates of Hell(DE) and will assist in any way we can.

I have posted a letter to DE in these very same forums to hopefully get some more press for the frame issues that still exist and perhaps even get some official response. It may in all actuality get removed even though it has no vulgar language and no dev bashing whatsoever but meh I can always re-post it from various accounts at various locations until the idea actually hits home and takes root. 

 

Keep up the good work and know the community is behind this in every way!

[XToxinator]

Fix my Frost up, please DE. Fix my frosty up!

 

8 months...8 BLOODY MONTHS! Since that nerf. And all we have to show for it is minimal utility in Ice Wave and a minuscule AoE in Freeze.

Yeah pls fix our frost!

[Elydir]

I think its a little sad that only two of the points in Archwizards list were dealt with before the Nekros buff. It would take a lot more than what he got to make me enjoy him.

[Archwizard]

So a couple weeks ago I wrote up a calculator to calculate the actual damage increase that enemies under the effects of Terrify receive.

 

I'm ashamed to say that my original calculations (about a year and a half ago now) were not entirely accurate; I had written that the armor reduction gave way to the same diminishing returns as armor (which is true), causing the actual value of Terrify's boost to eventually diminish (which, while possibly true, would not occur within feasible limits). The truth is - as basic logic that I had overlooked at the time would dictate - the actual damage increase improves as the enemy's armor increases, just not by constant increments (due to the diminishing returns on armor).

 

But I was not wrong to say that it's the lowest damage boost available, nor to say that its advantage is limited.

 

At maximum Power Strength (-56.8% armor), Terrify's armor reduction grants 100% increased damage (equivalent to a max rank Eclipse/Bullet Attractor, unranked Molecular Prime, rank 1 Rift Surge, rank 2 Accelerant...) against targets with (initially) 2206 armor.

That's the equivalent of a level 92 Elite Lancer, or (more plausibly) a level 50 heavy unit. On its own, that amount of armor gives 88.06% damage reduction, or a 8.36x health multiplier - after Terrify, it becomes 76.06% damage reduction, or a 4.18x health multiplier.

Now, 100% increased damage against Level 50 Heavy Gunners may not be so bad, but remember: Only Grineer enemies use armor. How limited is this boost's applications?

 

To compare, Rhino's Roar (the next-lowest damage boost) gives 142% increased damage universally at the same amount of Power Strength. Terrify peaks at about 132% damage increase at several million armor (8 digits), before it begins to diminish.

 

As I've previously stated, Terrify is presently the only armor-reduction effect that can't reduce target armor by 95% or more.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Archwizard

[Elydir]

At maximum Power Strength (-56.8% armor), Terrify's armor reduction grants 100% increased damage (equivalent to a max rank Eclipse/Bullet Attractor, unranked Molecular Prime, rank 1 Rift Surge, rank 2 Accelerant...) against targets with (initially) 2206 armor.

That's the equivalent of a level 92 Elite Lancer, or (more plausibly) a level 50 heavy unit. On its own, that amount of armor gives 88.06% damage reduction, or a 8.36x health multiplier - after Terrify, it becomes 76.06% damage reduction, or a 4.18x health multiplier.

 

The heavies probably more likely.

 

Still though, 92 Elite Lancer is like... T5... Thats scary.

[AlphaHorseman]

What if Radial Javelin pinned enemies to surfaces for a duration? Moddable, of course. Casting Radial Javelin launches Javelins into enemies within the affected radius, are ragdolled into the surface the Javelin was shooting towards, and should they survive, are pinned to the wall for a duration. Casting it again could remove those Javelins and launch the next volley, that way if new enemies enter the radius the Excalibur can respond accordingly.

 

It would help a lot with scale ability since RJ at the moment is just a damage ability with a short stun.

Edited February 4, 2015 by AlphaHorseman