taiiat Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 What if Radial Javelin pinned enemies to surfaces for a duration? Moddable, of course. Casting Radial Javelin launches Javelins into enemies within the affected radius, are ragdolled into the surface the Javelin was shooting towards, and should they survive, are pinned to the wall for a duration. Casting it again could remove those Javelins and launch the next volley, that way if new enemies enter the radius the Excalibur can respond accordingly. It would help a lot with scale ability since RJ at the moment is just a damage ability with a short stun. i would absolutely go for that provided Radial Javelin has it's Javelin Projectiles again.all Abilities could very well function like this, a Radius of guaranteed minimum effectiveness (the current Radial magic Javelins), and a skillshot based aspect that allows Players to use their experience to make Abilities much more effective. so it would always hit all of the Enemies within N moderate Radius, but you could Skillshot with those Projectile Javelins again. the easy Radial hits would be limited in their effectiveness, but the Skillshot aspects of Abilities should be highly, highly effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 i would absolutely go for that provided Radial Javelin has it's Javelin Projectiles again. all Abilities could very well function like this, a Radius of guaranteed minimum effectiveness (the current Radial magic Javelins), and a skillshot based aspect that allows Players to use their experience to make Abilities much more effective. so it would always hit all of the Enemies within N moderate Radius, but you could Skillshot with those Projectile Javelins again. the easy Radial hits would be limited in their effectiveness, but the Skillshot aspects of Abilities should be highly, highly effective. Oh I didn't think of that! Ragdolling could have enemies flying out of the radius and hit other targets! That would be fun! Plus very useful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Maybe, to prevent it from becoming a bit too much, have the ragdolled target only knock down enemy units it hits on its flight trajectory, rather than pin them as well. Pinning 3 or 4 targets to a wall with just 1 javelin sounds like a bit too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4G3NT_0R4NG3 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/396031-rhino-is-not-a-tank-at-all-here-is-how-to-make-him-one/ Although the game advertises him as such, Rhino is not even close to being a tank. Iron Skin is Rhino's only survivability skill, and in high levels, the 1000 extra health it adds is paper thin. It can be increased with power strength mods, but it can only be increased to about 3400 extra health with all 3 strength mods, still not even close to being enough to classify Rhino as a tank. I propose a rework to Iron Skin and Roar that would not only make Rhino more survivable, but also make him synergize more with other frames in a squad, be able to fill more of a classic tank role, and balance his power in lower levels. Iron Skin: -Iron Skin is now toggle-able -Iron Skin no longer adds health -Iron Skin has no initial energy cost for casting -While Iron Skin is active, all damage taken drains from energy instead of health with 225/275/325/375% efficiency -Iron Skin deactivates if you run out of energy -Energy restores and the Energy Siphon aura do not give you energy while Iron Skin is active -Iron Skin is now only affected by power efficiency and power max mods This would make Iron Skin essentially function as a super Quick Thinking mod. While This would allow an unmodded, max rank Rhino to absorb 337.5 damage before running out of energy, which is far less than Iron Skin would normally absorb. Rhinos with no efficiency or power max mods would only be used in lower levels, where Iron Skin is currently ridiculously OP, so this would help to balance Rhino for lower levels. A Rhino with a maxed Primed Flow and 75% power efficiency (the power efficiency cap) would be able to absorb 6375 damage before running out of energy. This is still probably not enough to make him the old school tank he used to be, but he would be able to pick up energy orbs while Iron Skin is active to replenish Iron Skin's defense, and when paired with a Trinity, Energy Vampire would allow Rhino to continuously absorb damage without Iron Skin going down. This would not only allow Rhino to synergize more with the rest of his team and make players work together more, but also allow for the classic tank + healer combo, which could never really be done before in Warframe. Roar: -Roar now makes every enemy in its radius attack Rhino over all other targets The classic role of a tank in a squad is to soak up all the damage and keep the fire off your your teammates. This Roar rework would allow Rhino to do just that. With the above Iron Skin rework and a Trinity providing energy to keep Iron Skin up, Rhino would be able to handle the incoming damage and stop enemies from attacking his teammates. With this Roar rework, Rhino would be far more of a team player than he is currently, focusing more on supporting his team rather than just killing everything on his own, as many Rhinos do now. This would also make Rhino excellent for defense missions, as enemies would prioritize attacking Rhino over attacking the cryopod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus106 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Ah, the "you could never understand my problems for arbitrary reasons" approach. I actually run a balanced build for Volt (given his Jack of All Trades penchant), with a personal preference toward Speed in gameplay because I prefer melee attacks. I use Overload any time I need a burst hit (and I have a reflex of tapping it when I need a moment to revive teammates), and it works each time. It's not simply a defense, it's facts. Overload deals 900 damage, but it also uses the Electric procs, dealing 50% additional damage for each enemy nearby; that second portion is based on the same phenomena that made Molecular Prime so powerful, by turning every enemy within range into another bomb. With even 2 enemies bundled with each other, that's 1350 damage, before you get to the electronics breaking; with 5 enemies bundled, double that. Never said it was a 'great' CC like Chaos or Vortex. But it's decent, more reliable than others I can name (and did). The stuns make for an excellent opener on enemies who normally counter melee, ie heavy units with radial blasts or poisonous Infested, who cannot get those attacks off. I will say I agree that the electronics permanently breaking is a slight problem. Perhaps electronics should regenerate after a period? 60 second delayed backup generators...? Otherwise, as I said: The problem with its damage is the same that could be said of any ability, an inability to scale up. Perhaps you have a point. Just allow the electric proc to work properly and it could be decent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) What if Radial Javelin pinned enemies to surfaces for a duration? Moddable, of course. Casting Radial Javelin launches Javelins into enemies within the affected radius, are ragdolled into the surface the Javelin was shooting towards, and should they survive, are pinned to the wall for a duration. Casting it again could remove those Javelins and launch the next volley, that way if new enemies enter the radius the Excalibur can respond accordingly. It would help a lot with scale ability since RJ at the moment is just a damage ability with a short stun. The funny part is that I originally had it do that in the OP to encourage the use of Super Jump (jump up before casting, pin everyone to the floor). I removed it after I added the damage multiplier because giving it both scaling damage and a way to CC targets for a meaningful duration seemed OP. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/396031-rhino-is-not-a-tank-at-all-here-is-how-to-make-him-one/ Hmm. Those are pretty good! I'd been thinking about adding a taunt/threat generation effect to Roar/Warcry/possibly Allure (works with the title, but likely not the user), but really hadn't figured out a way to make Iron Skin work. I think that's definitely on the right track though! I'd been trying to implement some connection with armor to the effect, to make the Ironclad Charge synergize. With some minor modifications to Iron Skin's (up to discussion, of course), I think some adaptation of those could go into the OP. Edited February 7, 2015 by Archwizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4G3NT_0R4NG3 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 The funny part is that I originally had it do that in the OP to encourage the use of Super Jump (jump up before casting, pin everyone to the floor). I removed it after I added the damage multiplier because giving it both scaling damage and a way to CC targets for a meaningful duration seemed OP. Hmm. Those are pretty good! I'd been thinking about adding a taunt/threat generation effect to Roar/Warcry/possibly Allure (works with the title, but likely not the user), but really hadn't figured out a way to make Iron Skin work. I think that's definitely on the right track though! I'd been trying to implement some connection with armor to the effect, to make the Ironclad Charge synergize. With some minor modifications to Iron Skin's (up to discussion, of course), I think some adaptation of those could go into the OP. Thank you! On an unrelated topic, I have made a troubling discovery regarding Zephyr's Turbulence. After doing copious amounts of testing on both Ceres and T4 Void missions, I have made a discovery that is equally remarkable and appalling. Since Bombard rockets are not hitscan, they should be deflected when they hit the inner radius, right? This is not what happens. The rocket still changes direction on contact with the inner radius, but because of the homing effect, after entering the inner radius, the rocket will immediately curve back around and hit Zephyr directly. Unless you move, the rocket will hit you directly every single time. The game is obviously trying to have Turbulence deflect Bombard rockets away from you, but fails miserably due to the homing effect. I would consider this to be more of a bug than an intended mechanic. The simplest way to fix this would be to make any Bombard rocket that enters the inner radius permanently lose its homing effect after being redirected. That way, after the rocket is deflected, it wouldn't immediately curve back around and hit you as it does now. I've created a thread about this issue which can be found here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/396804-why-zephyrs-turbulence-remains-completely-broken-now-with-bombards/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Thank you! On an unrelated topic, I have made a troubling discovery regarding Zephyr's Turbulence. After doing copious amounts of testing on both Ceres and T4 Void missions, I have made a discovery that is equally remarkable and appalling. Since Bombard rockets are not hitscan, they should be deflected when they hit the inner radius, right? This is not what happens. The rocket still changes direction on contact with the inner radius, but because of the homing effect, after entering the inner radius, the rocket will immediately curve back around and hit Zephyr directly. Unless you move, the rocket will hit you directly every single time. The game is obviously trying to have Turbulence deflect Bombard rockets away from you, but fails miserably due to the homing effect. I would consider this to be more of a bug than an intended mechanic. The simplest way to fix this would be to make any Bombard rocket that enters the inner radius permanently lose its homing effect after being redirected. That way, after the rocket is deflected, it wouldn't immediately curve back around and hit you as it does now. I've created a thread about this issue which can be found here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/396804-why-zephyrs-turbulence-remains-completely-broken-now-with-bombards/ Please make a thread in the bug forums about this behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherofHermes Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 So. the new syndicate buddy A.I. is great. how about we use that for SOTD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 So. the new syndicate buddy A.I. is great. how about we use that for SOTD? Could work as a start to focus on their aggression and pathing, but as they are extensions of Nekros, he should also have a way to direct their assaults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elydir Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 So. the new syndicate buddy A.I. is great. how about we use that for SOTD? Could work as a start to focus on their aggression and pathing, but as they are extensions of Nekros, he should also have a way to direct their assaults. I'm still not entirely sure thats enough... they keep on doing dumb things like jumping out of elevators right as I'm about to start it, and messing up my stealth runs by shooting before I have a chance to see whats in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'm still not entirely sure thats enough... they keep on doing dumb things like jumping out of elevators right as I'm about to start it, and messing up my stealth runs by shooting before I have a chance to see whats in the room. I doubt that's entirely relevant, given that Shadows of the Dead is not often pressed when the player is trying to be stealthy. The elevator thing could be an issue though, since the point is to allow Shadows to follow you when they're not in combat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) So, just so we're clear here: Desecrate was incontestably the most-used skill of all Warframe powers within the sampled time period. Meanwhile, Nekros is one of the least-used Warframes (don't forget to add the number of Primes to their non-Primed variants, since most players trade one for the other as an upgrade). Corrected for frames with the same name/toolkit: Saryn - 15% Nova - 10% Rhino - 9% Loki - 8% Frost - 6% Vauban/Ash - 5% Trinity/Mirage/Mag/Nyx - 4% Nekros/Mesa/Ember - 3% Excalibur Prime is conspicously absent, probably because of his rarity putting his presence at less than 1%. Almost every Warframe with a Top 5 Power was used more often than Nekros (Saryn was used 5x more often), but Desecrate is used nearly twice as often as Miasma. Anybody else seeing a serious disconnect here? I think DE just handed me the smoking gun. Edited February 10, 2015 by Archwizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theammostore Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I think DE just handed me the smoking gun. Where did you get that from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Where did you get that from? This. Statistics about abilities and frame usage within the past 2 weeks. It's an interesting read, and while it mostly confirms what we already hold to be true, it's nice to have explicit data in print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)LordPuck Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Could work as a start to focus on their aggression and pathing, but as they are extensions of Nekros, he should also have a way to direct their assaults. Why it was suggested to tie the existing waypoint system to Sotd in another topic. Aggresively target Marked Enemies and to prioritize Terrified targets. No additional system would be requied to create as far as UI. Add the word Defend for Rescue targets, teammates and items like Pods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elydir Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 My Mesa finished cooking yesterday and I've had a chance to play her. She doesnt seem too squishy to level, which is nice, but she feels like the slowest frame. Like, her passive sarent worth not getting to move during her ultimate. She has no escape moves aside from maybe rolling. The slightly increased sprint speed doesnt really counter the loss of mobility from not weilding melee, which frankly makes her feel as slow as frost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus106 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 My Mesa finished cooking yesterday and I've had a chance to play her. She doesnt seem too squishy to level, which is nice, but she feels like the slowest frame. Like, her passive sarent worth not getting to move during her ultimate. She has no escape moves aside from maybe rolling. The slightly increased sprint speed doesnt really counter the loss of mobility from not weilding melee, which frankly makes her feel as slow as frost. mesa is honestly fine as she is right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tris1 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 mesa is honestly fine as she is right now disagree first ability should be a huge amount of bullets being shot out of targets not a single target hit shatter shield: should stop certain procs from enemies either get rid of the reflection or make it work by mods peacemaker should have some kinda defence part with it either if its just stagger on hit shooting gallery: it should be manual so you can change it to other team mates or it should be a self buff and not go to others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 disagree first ability should be a huge amount of bullets being shot out of targets not a single target hit shatter shield: should stop certain procs from enemies either get rid of the reflection or make it work by mods peacemaker should have some kinda defence part with it either if its just stagger on hit shooting gallery: it should be manual so you can change it to other team mates or it should be a self buff and not go to others Isn't she strong enough for you already? BB needs to be one-handed but other than that her abilities work and are quite strong. Implying that 3 doesn't give enough defense is laughable, especially when you can hit the cap with just a bit of power strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgotten_Aeon Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Very late to the party, but wanted to say how awesome the OP list is and thank the poster for the effort in putting it together and maintaining it. Also to express minor disappointment that some of these changes have been sitting here for over 6 months without being implemented. Again, great work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 -snip-the problems with Mesa have nothing to do with 'muh Deeps' snake oil crap.it has to do with Themes and Quality of Life. except for Ballistic Battery. it's absolutely Overpowered for Crit Weapons, and basically useless for non-Crit Weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 except for Ballistic Battery. it's absolutely Overpowered for Crit Weapons, and basically useless for non-Crit Weapons. I suppose an alternative to having it use her Regulators would be to give it a short duration after the first shot (ie 1-2 seconds). Course, it would only add automatics to the list, which still doesn't feel terribly Old Western gunslinger-y. Very late to the party, but wanted to say how awesome the OP list is and thank the poster for the effort in putting it together and maintaining it. Also to express minor disappointment that some of these changes have been sitting here for over 6 months without being implemented. Can't be too disappointed, a lot of them have been up there since the thread began, nearly a year ago now. Primarily Mag and Loki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4G3NT_0R4NG3 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/402705-ult-problems-tornado-and-target-priority/ Since I main Zephyr with only a limited focus on Turbulence, Tornado is one of my primary means of both CC and damage dealing. On paper, it seems like a great ability: ragdoll crowds of enemies, high chance to proc whatever element you like, over 25k total damage per cast, however, a few issues still plague the ability and keep it from being viable at any of the listed benefits. The primary problem I would like to discuss is target priority. When Tornado is cast, it spawns 4 tornadoes on 4 different random enemies in the spawn radius. The spawn radius can be increased with power range mods, and with the single range mod I use on my Zephyr build, which I shouldn't even have to use, Tornado's massive spawn radius will create the tornadoes on enemies across the tileset instead of on the Heavy Gunner right next to me that's currently shooting me straight through my Turbulence. This is the primary problem with Tornado: the spawn mechanics make it unreliable. As always, I will suggest a potential fix, as saying there is a problem with an ability without offering a fix would just be whining. I propose that Tornado should have a target priority mechanic. Enemies closer to you would have a higher target priority than enemies further away from you, and heavy units would have a higher target priority than trash mobs. The 4 tornadoes would always spawn on the 4 enemies with the highest target priority. Tornado would still only target enemies inside of the spawn radius, which could still be increased by power range. If no enemies are inside the spawn radius, the ability would not cast, and an "invalid target" error would be given, so as to prevent casts from being wasted. Obviously, any enemy inside a Nullifier bubble would have a target priority of zero, to prevent the tornadoes from spawning on enemies that wouldn't be affected by it. This change would make Tornado target the enemies that are the biggest threat to you, as well as give the player more control over their tornadoes, making it far more reliable than it is currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/402705-ult-problems-tornado-and-target-priority/ Hmm. I will admit, I was until now under the misconception that you could aim the radius of Tornado. I shouldn't be too surprised at the random element, given Zephyr was immediately preceded by Oberon and his Smite. I'll be sure to add something to the OP once I give it some more thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now