Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[Aquasurge]

3 hours ago, Archwizard said:

Nyx

Everyone wants PsyBolts to be swapped for Telekinesis. I'm not against it, we just need a version that fits in her kit. Current thoughts:

Telekinesis: Two cast system.
First cast costs energy: Nyx selects a hostile target, or perhaps a small group of hostile targets within range of each other, with no immediate effect. (Or perhaps as ChronoEclipse suggested, lifting them, but causing them to follow your cursor like AMD? Could be tricky to use with Pt.2)
Second cast is free: Marked targets are flung toward the target or location she is aiming at during the second cast using Pull 2.0's mechanics, dealing knockdown and damage on impact.

Potential augment: FCastle's suggestion to instantly deactivate an alarm if a terminal is selected? (Could be tricky in raids.)

By making this a directed effect, she can use it to group up enemies for Chaos or Absorb, drag enemies to Mind Controlled units... perhaps even give Mind Controlled units a boost?

i can see this happening if it were a small group of hostiles considering the type of casting you are suggesting. for the augment, perhaps expand the auto hacking to all interactive objects, including ramparts(as mentioned by chronoeclipse). For the bonus effect with mind control, perhaps if the mind controlled target was levitated (on its own i.e. singular) and then thrown into a group of enemies, then maybe those enemies could be lightly cc'd somehow like a 4 second stun?. 

3 hours ago, Archwizard said:

Ember

The point isn't to recreate an entire playstyle, but to give her current one more options while limiting the current "cheesy" options.

Fireball (definitely not all three, maybe two):

• Fire patches to stack heat procs?
• tnccs215's damage multiplier on repeat casts?
• Temporary armor melting? Flat or %?

Fire Blast: Leaning towards having the ring itself create a smoke field to reduce enemy visibility/accuracy, the initial blast create a noise on cast to call enemies to investigate without alerting them (ie Undertow), and having the ring vacuum enemies in who get within a range slightly higher than the effect itself. Knockback wave as an augment.

World on Fire: Substitute damage for something to do with volcanic eruptions - perhaps even having each burst ragdoll affected enemies (effects of an eruption directly under them) after removing the knockback wave from Fire Blast. Not sure it's enough.
Perhaps it should avoid the thread of being "damage or CC" entirely?

Fireball

i find it hard to decide which out of the three should stay in however, i am lenient to say the temporary armor melting should somehow be incorporated into the rework of status procs as a whole (with flaming targets have weakened armor, allowing all dmg for x secs to ignore % of armor) instead of incorporating into fireball directly. the repeat casts and the fire patches would be my idea of the preferred route as i can see it having  some synergy within itself i.e. repeat casts allow multiple fireballs to be shot at once (with some minor penalty of course).

Fire Blast

i agree with everything said here, although the vacuum effect reminds me of how stars are created in the first place - with gases being compressed by gravity to heat up and start nuclear fusion. i am very tempted to suggest turning fire blast into half of a mini star (that incinerates projectiles it comes into contact with when casted) that leaves behind the ring of fire, but that would make it too similar to snow-globe.

World on Fire

to expand on your idea here i would suggest that world on fire would temporarily create volcanoes that spew out rivers of magma and jets of fire underneath a target with enemies near the explosion who step on the magma are slowed. it could be combined to synergise with fireball i.e. shooting a fireball at a volcano will cause it to shoot out bits of molten rock that explode on contact.

overall i feel that the ideas you suggested here @Archwizard are a pretty good start.

feel free to shoot down (or burn/throw down for that matter) any of my suggestions to the ground.

[tris1]

radial javelin-

no line of sight again and radial blind will allow it to scale by giving it finisher damage or change its swords going round Excalibur reflecting bullets by a percentage 

snowglobe- something to switch the the effect inside off, stop aoe's going through or at least the scorches flame thrower from halfway across the map.

 

[taiiat]

not really acceptable or useful to ask for blatant game harming Powercreep here. no, Radial Javelin will not lose Line of Sight constraints nor will it start dealing Finisher Damage.

[tris1]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

not really acceptable or useful to ask for blatant game harming Powercreep here. no, Radial Javelin will not lose Line of Sight constraints nor will it start dealing Finisher Damage.

hardly power creep considering you can look at many ability's in game which is power creep or considered broken as effective or just useless and are you looking at enemys how there creeping higher and higher with more content.

whether radial javelin gains or loses anything is up to DE and while it was being tampered with it, it  did lose line of sight and did finisher damage, considering other abilitys for the same cost does better or isnt constricted to broken line of sight

[Archwizard]

Replaced Psychic Bolts in the OP. Still need to think of a good replacement passive for Nyx, and I want to finish discussion on Ember's abilities before I throw any of them in.

11 hours ago, tris1 said:

radial javelin-

no line of sight again and radial blind will allow it to scale by giving it finisher damage or change its swords going round Excalibur reflecting bullets by a percentage 

snowglobe- something to switch the the effect inside off, stop aoe's going through or at least the scorches flame thrower from halfway across the map.

I don't see why Radial Javelin needs the swords to reflect bullets, given that Exalted Blade auto-blocks attacks anyway. Line of sight is necessary to prevent it from being a go-to for loot-caving, and the OP already lists a way to increase its damage in a way that is fitting for Excalibur's kit - without the instant gratification yours suggests.

Snow Globe was recently tweaked so that explosions won't penetrate it. I can't fathom why someone would want to remove the inner slow effect.

2 hours ago, tris1 said:

hardly power creep considering you can look at many ability's in game which is power creep or considered broken as effective

So you thought it was a good idea to go into a thread where one of the main goals is to address power creep on a case-by-case basis, and say "screw that"?

... Perhaps you should try writing your own thread there, mate.

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, tris1 said:

hardly power creep considering you can look at many ability's in game which is power creep or considered broken as effective or just useless and are you looking at enemys how there creeping higher and higher with more content.

it did lose line of sight and did finisher damage

so your answer to Abilities that are too good to be true, is that everything should be too good to be true, so that every Mission is walk from the start to the end.
Enemies aren't 'creeping higher'. if anything they're 'creeping' lower with less incentive to play Missions for several hours at a time.

Radial Javelin has never dealt Finisher Damage.

26 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

 

I can't fathom why someone would want to remove the inner slow effect.

i assume was referring to the Snow Effect, which is quite intrusive if one makes the mistake of using a bright Energy Color.

[Archwizard]

Current thinking:

Fireball has combo timer, with each hit increasing its Range, Strength, and Efficiency. On the third hit, Fireball leaves behind a fire patch that continuously burns the target.

I'm wondering if perhaps, instead of giving Fire Blast a suction effect, one could go to World on Fire instead...? I feel like making Fire Blast continually stun enemies and conceal players within is enough of a load for 75 energy, even without the knockback - and combining the knockback with a suction effect seems counterintuitive.
(I'm still in favor of simply scrapping World on Fire and swapping it for something that isn't so passive, but we're a little low on options. A flamethrower might've been a good idea once upon a time before Chroma.)

[taiiat]

a 'Flamethrower' would be a good idea if it wouldn't use the Continuous Weapon Damage Model, which it absolutely would - which in effect means it would always be garbage.

that's off topic so i'll stop.

[Gurpgork]

1 hour ago, Archwizard said:

A flamethrower might've been a good idea once upon a time before Chroma.

I have a bit of a side suggestion, since I've been thinking a lot about Chroma lately. Or, more accurately two suggestions.

What if Spectral Scream was a one-and-done conical blast that guaranteed status? It could maybe have a wind-up time (like an inhale) and still have somewhat limited range to avoid completely eclipsing abilities like Fireball and Shock. But it would solve the crappy-continuous-weapon-mechanics problem that SS suffers from, and it would make it a lot less headachey to use in the middle of a fight. 

My other suggestion could be a passive or could be part of SS. What I was thinking is that single-element status effects would have somewhat of a different effect if used by Chroma (or just if they're applied specifically by SS). For example, Toxin procs could do more damage each successive tick, Fire procs could heal Chroma for a flat amount each time they tick, Electric procs could have a chance to disentigrate enemies below a certain health threshold (probably 10%, 15% at the most), and Cold procs could briefly stun enemies in addition to or instead of the slow effect. 

I know it's a bit tangential, but I just saw "Chroma" and a bunch of ideas that've been stewing all came up. 

[tris1]

13 hours ago, Archwizard said:

Replaced Psychic Bolts in the OP. Still need to think of a good replacement passive for Nyx, and I want to finish discussion on Ember's abilities before I throw any of them in.

I don't see why Radial Javelin needs the swords to reflect bullets, given that Exalted Blade auto-blocks attacks anyway. Line of sight is necessary to prevent it from being a go-to for loot-caving, and the OP already lists a way to increase its damage in a way that is fitting for Excalibur's kit - without the instant gratification yours suggests.

Snow Globe was recently tweaked so that explosions won't penetrate it. I can't fathom why someone would want to remove the inner slow effect.

So you thought it was a good idea to go into a thread where one of the main goals is to address power creep on a case-by-case basis, and say "screw that"?

... Perhaps you should try writing your own thread there, mate.

12 hours ago, taiiat said:

so your answer to Abilities that are too good to be true, is that everything should be too good to be true, so that every Mission is walk from the start to the end.
Enemies aren't 'creeping higher'. if anything they're 'creeping' lower with less incentive to play Missions for several hours at a time.

Radial Javelin has never dealt Finisher Damage.

No i didnt say anything about making all abilities to good to be true i offered an opinion and solution to making an ability effective and if you want balance then every ability in the game needs to reviewed and a main source of what makes an ability overpowered or under powered for energy cost and game play mechanics. 

[tnccs215]

3 hours ago, tris1 said:

No i didnt say anything about making all abilities to good to be true i offered an opinion and solution to making an ability effective

First, commas.

Second, Radial Javelin possesses a set of characteristics -- radial, instant damage ability -- that make it inherently perfect for macro-farming. -- ence the importance of LoS: To prevent abuse.

The only issues that make it useless or "bad' in some cases is simply reduced to poor scaling. A thing easily fixed with Archwizard's solution, that meets both the necessities and the theme of the power and the frame.

RJ's easy, quick and effective use make it spammable cheese that nullifies gameplay unless there is a clear trade off to make it only usable on emergencies-- i.e.: An "oh sh!t" power.

Resetting the combo counter creates this conditions, making it having a quite great, but fair, trade off.

Contrary to "common sense", not all opinions are the same. You saying you like bananas is one thing, you saying radial javelin would be perfect if it could nullify gameplay is another. The first dismisses corroboration, since its something up to you and you only. The second doesn't; it demands evidence. It's not so much an opinion as it is an hypothesis about something exterior to you. And you failed to support it satisfyingly to anyone here.

That is: Your opinion is wrong.

18 hours ago, tris1 said:

hardly power creep considering you can look at many ability's in game

So your answer is "its not powercreep because it isnt the only one around?"

Powercreep is a relative thing, yes; but to what can be considered the power/difficulty balance point of the game, not compared to other powers. We are all very aware there is powercreep in other powers, and they too are considered things that necessitate rework. Which powers are you referring too, even? And after you list them, go see if they are still as powerful on the main topic. Feel free to argue about their overpoweredness once you do so.

18 hours ago, tris1 said:

you can look at many ability's in game which is power creep or considered broken as effective or just useless

Oh, you know that expression that gets cheaply and awfully erroneously thrown around so much around this days? "politically correct"? Well, here is a good use to it: "Calling an overpowered power "efficient" is a politically correct way of normalizing and accepting powercreep". Sure, you can call them efficient-- they are --  but they are also, and specially, too efficient. That's what make them powercreep.

18 hours ago, tris1 said:

are you looking at enemys how there creeping higher and higher with more content.

Have you considered that maybe that's because DE needs a way to maintain a challenge without taking away your precious cheese?

And lastly;

3 hours ago, tris1 said:

if you want balance then every ability in the game needs to reviewed and a main source of what makes an ability overpowered or under powered for energy cost and game play mechanics. 

That's the raison d'être of this thread. In case you haven't noticed, people in here have been reviewing warframe abilities for around two years in order to keep them balanced. And it's exactly by reviewing what makes an ability over or underpowered that we say your ideas are not good. Indeed, they are quite bad.

------------------------------------

Moving on;

Regarding the very power that started this; I noticed that Excalibur, if using his ultimate, has quite some problems maintaining his combo counter. Oddly enough, he doesn't has Valkyr's "freeze" mechanic that keep the true melee weapon's combo counter frozen while the ultimate is active. Perhaps it should be applied to EB too?

Edited November 20, 2016 by tnccs215

[tris1]

33 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

Second, Radial Javelin possesses a set of characteristics -- radial, instant damage ability -- that make it inherently perfect for macro-farming. -- ence the importance of LoS: To prevent abuse

Firstly its not an abuse at all its called game play mechanics and was used by many plays due to DE and the excessive over the top RNG and farming. LoS is still partly broken and is a bad mechanic and you cant slap LoS on to an ability just because it was working how it was intended and was being used correctly to its maximum potential and was nerfed because of the bad mechanics of the game.

 

33 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

RJ's easy, quick and effective use make it spammable cheese that nullifies gameplay unless there is a clear trade off to make it only usable on emergencies-- i.e.: An "oh sh!t" power.

Contrary to "common sense", not all opinions are the same. You saying you like bananas is one thing, you saying radial javelin would be perfect if it could nullify gameplay is another. The first dismisses corroboration, since its something up to you and you only. The second doesn't; it demands evidence. It's not so much an opinion as it is an hypothesis about something exterior to you. And you failed to support it satisfyingly to anyone here.

That is: Your opinion is wrong

Effective for 75 energy that has Los, limited number of javelins, terrible damage scaling because of its 3 based damage and a terrible stun that doesnt always work, not as effective as you think.

IF you read what i said i already said there are multiple opinions for people and if you read it again i said nothing about making it nullify the game. so stop putting words into my mouth that havent been said. 

Your talking about eveidence? oh please nothing you have said nor the post has said anything about evidence so dont go chucking acuations around when you have not provided anything yourself. 

My opinion is not wrong hence its called an option and if you have any idea of how options or opinions work you would understand that you cant just say something is wrong without (your) evidence and even then its down to DE hence if DE never implement it that obviously makes the combo counter idea wrong aswell, by DE oviously not seeing that it needs to be balanced or added.

33 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

So your answer is "its not powercreep because it isnt the only one around?"

Have you considered that maybe that's because DE needs a way to maintain a challenge without taking away your precious cheese?

------------------------------------

No i said its not power creep considering how enemy are levels are getting higher over the years and that certain abilitys cant keep up to the enemy scaling and obviously if you looked around you can tell there are over ability's in game that are overpowered or under powered but that doesn't stop people from making suggestions to fix them.

Have you considered that it will never change ?

As the game will progress enemy levels will always continue to go forward no matter whether an ability is under powered or over powered, so it has nothing to do with trying to get a challenge while taking away abilities.

33 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

That's the raison d'être of this thread. In case you haven't noticed, people in here have been reviewing warframe abilities for around two years in order to keep them balanced. And it's exactly by reviewing what makes an ability over or underpowered that we say your ideas are not good. Indeed, they are quite bad.

You say its to review the frames and there abilities well there you go you have already contradicted yourself. Your basically saying that its only one persons idea and opinion that matters for the thread. To fix or complete whats broken or not requires multiple people and opinions something which you are not accepting, with that i can say that combo counter is a bad idea and that's my opinion and the evidence is the combo counter its self, yes it does great damage after a while but the fact it doesnt last very long and a frame thats going to melee at high level is going to die before that melee counter is up and ready to do good damage or even do damage to enemy in high level 

Balanced? most of the ideas will not be implemented because its up to DE and at points the community or even the design council where certain votes are posted 

You cant make a thread thats solely based on one persons idea and thats it. Thats not the point of the forum

There have been multiple threads way before this even existed that have either offered better opinions or even had them implemented into the game 

Edited November 20, 2016 by tris1

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

Regarding the very power that started this; I noticed that Excalibur, if using his ultimate, has quite some problems maintaining his combo counter. Oddly enough, he doesn't has Valkyr's "freeze" mechanic that keep the true melee weapon's combo counter frozen while the ultimate is active. Perhaps it should be applied to EB too?

uh, perhaps. for perhaps obvious reasons i'm hesitant to this, since Exalted Machine Gun is still too good to be true most of the time.
it makes sense to be consistent with the other glorified Melee Ability but....

2 hours ago, tris1 said:

Firstly its not an abuse

considering how enemy are levels are getting higher over the years

Your basically saying that its only one persons idea and opinion that matters for the thread.

yes it does great damage after a while but the fact it doesnt last very long and a frame thats going to melee at high level is going to die before that melee counter is up and ready to do good damage or even do damage to enemy in high level

i don't think Abusive Gameplay means what you think it means. by definition something is Abusive Gameplay if it trivializes the game and/or turns off entire legs of the game.

it's hard to complain about someone not pasting a spreadsheet of numbers to explain the game to you, if you aren't going to prove your own claim there.
(because it's false, Enemy Levels aren't changing - or going down because of less incentive to play Endless Missions for several hours at a time)

(actually i think he's saying just your opinion doesn't matter because what you're suggesting as a 'Gameplay improvement' is 'AoE Blast²'. that is objectively not an improvement to Gameplay. feel free to look through the hundred pages of discussion as well as the OP to see what we mean by Gameplay improvement!)

Enemies only outscale the Hit Counter if they are Armored (which literally everything sucks against), or you are barely/not using your Melee to gain hits to go up in Damage as the Enemies go up in Levels.
if you are actively using Melee.... long after you go outside of the working Levels of the game, Melee can still Kill things. the Hit Counter is quite excellent in this regard, the Sword scales with the Enemies, more or less.

[Buzkyl]

On 11/19/2016 at 5:17 AM, tris1 said:

radial javelin-

no line of sight again and radial blind will allow it to scale by giving it finisher damage or change its swords going round Excalibur reflecting bullets by a percentage

 

That turns it back into the easily spammable AoE nuke it was before, finisher damage just allows you to push the limit even further. Which i'm against. RJ currently has no real Synergy with his kit. The change from a damage point of view is beneficial to the skill but it doesn't change why would you even use RJ? Blind does better CC and EB does better damage.

I'd like to propose some suggestions.

• Enemies impaled By javelins take double damage from Slash with a force bleed proc.
• RJ damage  remains as is but it adopts the elemts of excalibur's melee. The damage is affected by excalibur's current combo multiplier meaning at x2 it will be dealing x2 of it's current damage. Blind enemies also take increase damage
• I saw a suggestion where enemies impaled by RJ are pulled into melee range of excalibur when he lifts the sword form the ground

DE aren't against AoE nukes but they want the player to atleast work for it.  LoS is an buggy feature but most of the times (for me) i can say it works. Jumping into the open to maximize the amount of enemies affect is a risk vs reward feature .

Edited November 20, 2016 by Buzkyl

[taiiat]

in the grand scheme i'd rather replace Radial Javelin(or change it to the extent that it is a new Ability), because it is not an interesting Ability, has little to no connection to the rest of the entire Warframe.... it basically has as much going for Excalibur as Super Jump did once we had a good Movement System.

Edited November 20, 2016 by taiiat

[Archwizard]

More Ember thoughts (again, feel free to reject):

World on Fire now empowers all Heat status effects within range, causing them to melt enemy armor based on a percentage of their damage for their duration. However, gouts of flame now only form whenever Ember is stationary. (Possible addendum of causing more heat procs even when she's moving? Nah, then it's just Heat Ward or Maim.)

• Alternately, World on Fire could have something to do with making all active Heat effects/fire patches just instantly detonate for... some effect. Not sure what. Seems almost as fitting for Ember though, and doesn't rehash the "give everyone armor-reduction" suggestion.

I think that addresses my main issues, at least: You can't just tap World on Fire and run through low-level Exterminates killing everything, it can still synergize with her abilities, it gains scalability, and the armor-removal doesn't step on Corrosive's toes because its effects are limited to her abilities.
Plus, between Accelerant and her passive, enemy armor could be completely peeled while she has procs active, providing additional utility to the team even if they don't have proper elements. And of course, it provides more support to staying within Fire Blast's ring for defense.

10 hours ago, tris1 said:

You say its to review the frames and there abilities well there you go you have already contradicted yourself. Your basically saying that its only one persons idea and opinion that matters for the thread. To fix or complete whats broken or not requires multiple people and opinions something which you are not accepting,

No, you're not accepting that not all opinions are equally valid. We do not have to agree with what you said just because you said it. 
That's why they're called "opinions", not "facts".

Since you started posting, no less than 4 other players have all pointed out that your suggestions are inherently flawed - and during that conversation, "only one persons idea and opinion" (yours) has been rejecting "multiple people and opinions" on the grounds of simply disagreeing with you.

If you ran by your current logic, that 'DE will ignore this thread anyway so I'll go ahead and post whatever', then Feedback threads in general do not matter - which is empirically untrue! There are several explicit cases written in the OP that I've attributed to this thread alone, several others this thread has at least signal-boosted, and many more this thread has never even heard of, which have ended up in the game proper. It may not happen as often as we, as players, would like... but it does happen, at DE's own production rate and discretion.

Furthermore, the majority of your argument has tapered away from supporting your explicit points, to simply attacking the thread itself. If you disagree with the way things are done in this thread (where someone offers a suggestion, we all offer feedback and evidence to refine it, I choose whether to veto or add to the OP, and we repeat until a majority is satisfied), and you would prefer to be the master of the universe, then I already suggested that you make your own thread; you need not remain here fighting what is clearly an uphill battle for you.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Archwizard

[Endless_Destruction]

18 hours ago, Buzkyl said:

 

• Enemies impaled By javelins take double damage from Slash with a force bleed proc.
• RJ damage  remains as is but it adopts the elemts of excalibur's melee. The damage is affected by excalibur's current combo multiplier meaning at x2 it will be dealing x2 of it's current damage. Blind enemies also take increase damage
• I saw a suggestion where enemies impaled by RJ are pulled into melee range of excalibur when he lifts the sword form the ground

1. Sounds kind of like Ash's interactions with slash. I like it, but it seems to step a little on his toes.

2. Tying Excalibur's abilities to his combo counter makes sense, but only if the timer "freezes" during cast time, and if the javelins add to the combo counter (as far as I can tell, they are just one-off Exalted Blade stabs). Was the Blinded enemies->increased damage thing not already present?

3. So like he draws the swords back, pulling them closer? It seems a little strong.

[Archwizard]

On 11/20/2016 at 11:39 AM, Archwizard said:

Alternately, World on Fire could have something to do with making all active Heat effects/fire patches just instantly detonate for... some effect. Not sure what. Seems almost as fitting for Ember though, and doesn't rehash the "give everyone armor-reduction" suggestion.

Looking at it, this could be more fitting, I'm just not sure how to fit into the execution of the ability.

Unless she just doesn't have the gouts of flame from World on Fire at all anymore, and radial Heat proc ticks/explosive fire patches replace that damage. Higher potential output on all other casts, but no more instant damage from the ultimate... not exactly limited to her powers, either...

On 11/20/2016 at 11:28 AM, Buzkyl said:

• Enemies impaled By javelins take double damage from Slash with a force bleed proc.
• RJ damage  remains as is but it adopts the elemts of excalibur's melee. The damage is affected by excalibur's current combo multiplier meaning at x2 it will be dealing x2 of it's current damage. Blind enemies also take increase damage
• I saw a suggestion where enemies impaled by RJ are pulled into melee range of excalibur when he lifts the sword form the ground

Hmm. To be honest, I'm not sure Radial Javelin needs all that; the way I see it, the ability itself is more of a snap radial attack when he's surrounded, or a powerful combo finisher.

If RJ got all those boosts upfront, I'd worry that it would be the go-to for loot caving again, even with the line of sight (peeps gotta come to you eventually...).

Excalibur already has Slash Dash as a gap-closer. Pulling enemies into melee range is unnecessary since half the point is that he goes to them.

[Buzkyl]

46 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

 

Hmm. To be honest, I'm not sure Radial Javelin needs all that; the way I see it, the ability itself is more of a snap radial attack when he's surrounded, or a powerful combo finisher.

If RJ got all those boosts upfront, I'd worry that it would be the go-to for loot caving again, even with the line of sight (peeps gotta come to you eventually...).

Excalibur already has Slash Dash as a gap-closer. Pulling enemies into melee range is unnecessary since half the point is that he goes to them.

Those buffs were never ever meant to be all at once. At best you would choose only one of the options. They're meant to make RJ more intune with the rest of his kit, not bring back Draco farming.

SD is suppose to be a gap closer but it works much better when enemies are closer together so he bounces inbetween them, which is what the drag portion of RJ would do. 

I'm more leaning with it being a combo finisher, perhaps scaling off combo multiplier but the draw back is that it resets your combo. Akin to a melee version of Maim, you build up a high damage aka combo then unleash it then back to building up, goes well with SD augment and fits the RJ augment well.

On 11/20/2016 at 3:39 PM, Archwizard said:

 

• Alternately, World on Fire could have something to do with making all active Heat effects/fire patches just instantly detonate for... some effect. Not sure what. Seems almost as fitting for Ember though, and doesn't rehash the "give everyone armor-reduction" suggestion.

 

Assuming that We allow heat procs to stack Each WOF hit will consume all active heat procs to add to it's damage. Saw a suggestion where each pillar would leave a small pool of Molten Magma that slows down enemies.

Or adding to the suggestion, can always do the Peacemaker way of buff, alt fire will allow ember to focus her pillars i a specific area, in her view increasing thier rate of appearance in that particular area. WOF is a fairly uninspiring skils that it makes it hard for me to think of a buff. I'd tone it down and switch fire blast with it as untimate and make it more akin a masive wave of fire like the eximus version.

Everything that isn't incinerated in the blaze is flung back and set blaze with an extended heat proc. The resultant ring produce can work like Volts shield, adding fire damage to shots fired through.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Buzkyl

[Buzkyl]

7 hours ago, Endless_Destruction said:

1. Sounds kind of like Ash's interactions with slash. I like it, but it seems to step a little on his toes.

2. Tying Excalibur's abilities to his combo counter makes sense, but only if the timer "freezes" during cast time, and if the javelins add to the combo counter (as far as I can tell, they are just one-off Exalted Blade stabs). Was the Blinded enemies->increased damage thing not already present?

3. So like he draws the swords back, pulling them closer? It seems a little strong.

Blinded enemies take surprisingly no bonus damage from RJ.

[taiiat]

25 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

Those buffs were never ever meant to be all at once. At best you would choose only one of the options.

hm, perhaps instead of just Slash... all Physical Damage gets a Bonus. forcing Status is asking for trouble with Slash Status though.

23 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

Blinded enemies take surprisingly no bonus damage from RJ.

not surprising at all, Radial Javelin is an AoE Blast, not a Melee Weapon.

[Buzkyl]

14 minutes ago, taiiat said:

hm, perhaps instead of just Slash... all Physical Damage gets a Bonus. forcing Status is asking for trouble with Slash Status though.

not surprising at all, Radial Javelin is an AoE Blast, not a Melee Weapon.

I chose slash procs as it is well Slash Dash. But i understand that bonus damage ontop of lash procs + the finisher of knock down enemies might itlt it too far.

Considering RJ is excalibur poking EB (his melee) into the ground i would've expected that Blinded enemies take bonus damage. SD and EB take bonus damage from blind enemies, makes sense RJ should be thrown in. 

[taiiat]

8 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

makes sense RJ should be thrown in. 

(i don't think it does since that means Radial Javelin instantly deals 4x Damage, which means the most powerful basic AoE Blast in the game)

[Buzkyl]

4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

(i don't think it does since that means Radial Javelin instantly deals 4x Damage, which means the most powerful basic AoE Blast in the game)

Except that it ironically scales the worst in his kit. SD is boosted by both combo multiplier, blind and EB. EB is boosted by blind. and RJ is just damage. that's why i leaned more of it being a combo finisher, dealing heavy damage based on your current combo but resetting your combo at the end. 

[Archwizard]

On 11/19/2016 at 7:20 PM, Archwizard said:

Fireball has combo timer, with each hit increasing its Range, Strength, and Efficiency. On the third hit, Fireball leaves behind a fire patch that continuously burns the target.

On 11/18/2016 at 8:00 PM, Archwizard said:

Fire Blast: Leaning towards having the ring itself create a smoke field to reduce enemy visibility/accuracy. 
Knockback wave as an augment.

On 11/20/2016 at 11:39 AM, Archwizard said:

World on Fire now empowers all Heat status effects within range, causing them to melt enemy armor based on a percentage of their damage burn nearby enemies for their duration, and causing all fire patches Ember has placed to detonate for additional damage. However, gouts of flame now only form whenever Ember is stationary.

This where my side of the Ember rework is presently at, without swapping abilities around to make Fire Blast her ultimate or whathaveyou. Having Fire Blast as just a damage ability simply reverts back to the old style of ability creation, a skill that simply deals flat damage. World on Fire is a good idea for an ability in theory, it just trivializes content; meanwhile I'm not sure why there's a suggestion running for World on Fire to be made an area-denial skill, since it's a mobile effect not limited to any one 'area'.

Any further thoughts on this?

Edited November 23, 2016 by Archwizard