Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[Archwizard]

I changed my description of Rift Gate, since as it was pointed out to me before, attempting to use it to teleport without having a Gate already active would be... confusing. It just added onto the effective cost.

 

I figured that since I had Banish and Cataclysm directly affecting one another - as Freeze and Snow Globe now do - then having Rift Walk directly interact with Rift Gate could be an interesting way to control the effect. Doubly so, given the number of suggestions for Banish and Rift Walk to be merged (which as Felis pointed out, would be difficult with consoles), meaning they rather could use more distinct effects.

 

Unrelated, it's rather appalling that Snow Globe is a more effective Sonic Boom than Sonic Boom is. Added to the OP.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Archwizard

[Elydir]

They confirmed on todays stream that Valkyrs ultimate will accept mods like Exalted Blade and is toggled.

 

Also Mend will affect shields and attack powers will get a combo system.

 

Neat!

[xLordKogax]

In a perfect world, all Warframes would be competent at their role on their own, but capable of great feats of synergy beyond any one frame together. All of their abilities would be useful, mesh together and make sense in their hands (rather than just putting emphasis on spamming the "most useful" button); all of their themes and archetypes would be recognized and done justice. Gimmicky mods would be minor gameplay improvements, not requirements to get a frame off the ground. While not all stats would be necessary or useful, no stat would be actively detrimental to improve (and of course, Corrupted mods would actually have trade-offs rather than double-dipping in benefits).

 

This... is not that perfect world.

Numbers can be hotfixed at any time, but faulty mechanics have proven to be slower and more stubborn to change. Once a frame is released, the damage is already done – and course-correction is accused of being a “major revamp” that threatens to make the frame unrecognizable, or otherwise creates a backlash. Sometimes though, part of the original vision can just be wrong; a frame could be overspecialized, or focused on gimmicks over gameplay, or have abilities spread far too thin to stand on their own feet in completing their role. There were droves of players who felt penalized by Update 15's changes to abilities, as they forma'd away most of their ability slots! With issues like these, drastic changes are called for.

Today, I would like to look at what I think Warframe would be like in this hypothetical “perfect world”. Below is a list I’ve compiled of changes to frame behaviors and roles – not just “buffs”, but gameplay-altering adjustments to abilities.

 

Don't skim the list! This post is a frequently-updated compilation of months of feedback and brainstorming, and I already simplify the suggestions as much as I can. At least check that your suggestion for your favorite frame isn't already listed!

 

The List

General Gameplay Changes

AI overhaul: Mind Controlled enemies, Shadows of the Dead, Specters and Kubrows approach and focus on enemies or locations you zoom in on, will ignore cover, and will follow you when enemies are not within their range of notice. Unless prompted by the focus command, they will prioritize enemies most damaging to their master, followed by those closest to their master - until their main target is killed in all cases, unless a higher priority interrupts.

Sentinel/Kubrow mods added to dictate behavior: Collecting loot (a la Vacuum), focusing on cameras, shooting at traps, etc.; Looter (container-shooting mod) officially released.

--> Carrier's Vacuum changed from “pick up loot” to Onihikage's "Pack Mule".

--> Ghost breaks X sec after initiating an attack, affected by rank.

--> Investigator scans faster based on mod rank, faster than a normal Codex scanner at max rank.

--> Vaporize cooldown inversely affected by mod rank.

Damage tables reworked: 

1) Radiation more effective against Infested Flesh than Robotics, Magnetic more effective against Ferrite Armor than Infested Flesh; Bleed damage is reduced on shielded targets, Toxin status can only bring you as low as 1 HP (on its own)

2) Sinew removed (all Ancients classed Fossilized), universal Robotic modifier shared between Grineer/Corpus tech (Grineer machines having Ferrite armor while Corpus machines utilize Shields), no more than 2 Flesh types in all (one for Infested, one for everyone else) 

3) Armor types between factions are more unified – Infested Chargers have residual Ferrite Armor from their days as Grineer soldiers, Corpus Crewman have Ferrite Armor modifiers on their helmets, Mutalists have Robotic modifiers, etc.

Stats separated from cosmetic helmets: Perhaps some system to grant similar (free) stat variations to the frame could be implemented through the loadout screen instead.

--> Edit 5/7: As of Update 13.2.3, stat-based helmets cannot be obtained anymore. However, this still poses an issue in that Arcane helmets can be traded, and you are forced to make a one-time decision to remove the stats from a helmet if you want to use it for aesthetics alone. The complete retroactive separation of stats from helmets (that is to say, the removal of Arcane helmets and distribution of their effects elsewhere) is still requested here.

Stealth Rewards: Enemies can have the minimum rarity/quantity of their loot drops increased by up to two "ranks" – one rank if they are unalerted when killed, and a second rank if the alarm has never been set off prior to their stealth kill (deactivating the alarm will not return a loot rank, and they must still be killed without alerting them).

General ability changes:

1) "First Precept" skills (Sonic Boom, Null Star, Soul Punch, etc.) no longer have an animation lock and can always be cast while moving

2) "Hitscan" skills with precise targeting (Mind Control, Venom, Soul Punch, etc) can auto-target the nearest enemy to the player's cursor if within line of sight or a certain range of the player's focal point – more forgiving targeting

3) Damage-focused abilities will deal additional damage equal to a percentage of the targets' maximum health (scaling with Power Strength); this damage is still affected by resistances and armor. For example, Fireball could do 400 damage plus 5% of a target's HP. (Does not apply to abilities that already scale damage like Shield Polarize or Antimatter Drop, utilities that deal incidental damage as a secondary effect like Bounce or Decoy, damage effects with unique utilities such as Molecular Prime or Rhino Stomp, or Finisher assaults like Bladestorm or Tentacle Swarm.)

 

Augments (Rant)

When augments were announced, the idea players were presented with was that each augment would shake up your playstyle; while fitting the name by not taking anything away, they could put an extra emphasis on a secondary function of an ability to encourage players to use it differently.

A powerful nuke like Antimatter Drop or Shield Polarize can become a method of defense; a crowd control like Undertow or Banish can become a backup support tool; a defensive skill like Link or Iron Skin can become a way to debuff enemies. New toys that players would gladly swap even a staple mod for, to expand their kits.

 

There's just one flaw with this design: abilities that don't do anything to begin with.

The difference between adding a support skill to Loki or giving that same skill to Ember, is that Loki has plenty of others to devalue this; Ember has none, but understands the value quite well.

 

What we need to focus on is that little word: "none".

 

 

 

So what does this mean?

Focus on building the foundation before you bring in the furnishings. Augments should never be used to bandaid fix a frame's problem; that's what Updates are for. If an ability is all but useless without an augment, that speaks toward the ability's designer, not the augment's.

 

Never use add-ons to 'fix' gameplay.

 

Ember

Ember is the queen of revamps, if only because she receives so many. For a long time she was limited to flat damage effects and spamming stuns, leaving her poorly equipped to deal with endgame content compared to other frames. While her base stats gave her a nudge in the right direction, many players are still dissatisfied by the result.

I’ll admit that when her Fire Blast change was announced, I was quite excited; I had previously suggested in this very thread that Fire Blast be used to clear an area and hold the line. However, a very distinct order was presented for a particular reason: an innate burn effect should be in the ring because Ember players are used to overlaying rings of flame to catch foes. The present knockback wave actually pushes them out of these rings, which makes it difficult to take advantage of the ring itself if the enemy isn’t a melee trying to charge back in.

Players originally suggested to make World on Fire a toggle so that the ability could be built without Duration, since almost every effect in her kit relies on it. Of course, the idea of having an endless effect that constantly deals damage without ever having reason to turn it off is sort of imbalanced. However, the devs went along with this anyway – but now it has the worst of both worlds, bearing the same duration while reducing its efficiency by removing the benefit of energy regeneration auras, with the only new benefits being initial damage (added later) and the ability to turn it off.

As with the phoenix, the wheel turns for Ember once more…

 

Suggested changes:

- Fireball now inflicts a stacking Heat DoT on the target, which can damage and inflict status upon enemies that come too close. If Fireball does not hit a target directly, a fire patch is created at the target area, a la Napalm Blasts. Still unaffected by Power Range or Duration.

- Fireball Frenzy applies its effects to allies within Fireball's initial blast radius.

- Accelerant also increases the damage of Heat-based combination elements (Gas, Radiation, Blast), but with reduced effectiveness. 

- Fire Blast deals damage over time throughout the entire circle of flames. Enemies will no longer attempt to avoid the ring of flames (a la Bastille or actual fire hazards). Circle of flames innately has 100% status chance, but the initial blast no longer inflicts knockback.

- Fire Fright is now “Blasting Zone”: Fire Blast creates a wave of heat, inflicting knockback and spreading the initial damage over a radius affected by Power Range.

- World on Fire replaced with “Rising Phoenix”: Ember conjures a firebird and transfers control to it, becoming immobile. The firebird has a large health pool (affected by Power Strength), flight with Archwing controls, and is able to use all of Ember's abilities while active. When the firebird expires, it explodes to deal damage in a wide radius, affected by how much health it lost. Toggled, unaffected by Power Duration, but the firebird gradually loses health over time and dies with Ember. Ember's threat is transferred to the firebird while active.

 

Just to get the tiniest bit side-tracked, Fireball is the only basic elemental attack that does not improve upon (like Freeze or Venom) or supplement (like Shock) the status it represents; rather, it simply uses the status to inflict a DoT. The radial burn is a minor callback to Overheat, but also improves the status to give some hint as to where Gas got it from. 

Back on on point, while the change to Fire Blast seems redundant, it does have a key point to it. With it, players can forgo the augment to perform the stunlocking attack they used it for before, or combine it for a tool that can clear an area to mount a defense or give allies time to recover.

Now, there is no way to avoid Duration with World on Fire at this point without a total rework of the effect; toggles are, by nature, designed to be turned off. The ones without Duration have a downside to the player while active, usually in the form of mobility; otherwise, the Renewal route. Additionally, Ember's main downside is that she has no choice but to use proximity with her opponents as part of her offense due to the radial nature of her skills; they tried mitigation, it didn't take. Rising Phoenix is intended as an answer to both, while also being more reliable to use than World on Fire. The advantage of the skill is that, as enemy output increases, it becomes more efficient to use as a standalone damage tool, as the construct will die faster and expend less energy for the same output; furthermore, it has a duration that is capped by Power Strength rather than Duration, increasing build potential.

 

Hydroid

Hydroid is one of what we call "the RNG frames". While his skills are thematic and Undertow itself is unique, he suffers from having unreliable skills, particularly where his first and ultimate abilities are concerned. This leads to him having dull gameplay, where the challenge is primarily in waiting out the Duration timers of your abilities so that you can recast them with the prayer that they'll actually hit your target this time. It's generally agreed upon that Hydroid has some of the least engaging gameplay available, only compounded by the augment to Tentacle Swarm blatantly repeating Desecrate.

While most of his kit would survive on minor tweaks, Tentacle Swarm needs something more thorough.

 

Suggested changes:

- Tempest Barrage is one-handed and can be recast while active, allowing multiple instances based on rank. If overlaid on Undertow, Tempest Barrage can damage foes within the puddle.

- Tidal Surge collects and continuously drags enemies caught in it for the remainder of the duration, only releasing and ragdolling them during the Slash portion. Can be cast while Undertow is active to relocate the puddle and all enemies inside.

- Undertow removes collision for enemies that wander into the pool. Other abilities may be cast while active.

- Tentacle Swarm prioritizes spawning in the locations of the nearest enemies to the targeting reticule using the same targeting system as Bladestorm, and deals additional damage in a limited radius around each tentacle's tip when they strike the ground (ie melee ground slam). If fewer enemies are present than the maximum number of tentacles, the remaining tentacles will attempt to form in a circle around the targeted location. If Undertow is active and within range, tentacles will toss snared foes into Undertow, then search for new targets. Tentacle Swarm can be canceled by recasting the effect.

 

The idea here is that Hydroid is equal parts seafarer as he is the beast that dwells within it. With the proper setup, you can transform yourself into a combination of Scylla and Charybdis.

While some players would say that Undertow needs to be changed so that allies aren't hindered by it, I'm of the belief that it's the element in Hydroid's kit that should be expanded upon, as it is the most unique skill available to him. Using Undertow can compel a mode shift within the Hydroid, like how Bursa Moas shift between offense and siege modes - in this case, Pirate and Kraken modes.

 

Limbo

Update 15.5 gave Limbo one very important adjustment: Allies can roll to deactivate Banish prematurely. Before this change, Limbo was seen as the biggest trollframe since Mag traded Pull with Valkyr. Of course, part of Limbo’s problem is that this update didn’t do quite enough; while it bandaged part of the problem, the Rift mechanic itself still prevents allies from lifting pickups or datamasses. Simultaneously, Update 16.3 locked players within the Rift out of using consoles – but enemies within the Rift still can. 

Furthermore, the devs have agreed that Limbo has perhaps too many buttons to do the same job – three of them are different takes on Banish, while usage of Rift Surge is wholly dependent on his other abilities.

Part of the trouble is, Limbo doesn’t have a lot to do once he's inside the Rift; he's got a damage buff and... that's it. Since the Rift doesn't disallow abilities, even his allies get more mileage out of it than he does. For the King of the Rift, Limbo rather falls behind anyone who joins him there.

Our dapper Warframe is up for a trim and a haircut.

 

- Banished enemies are not able to access consoles outside of the Rift. Banishing an enemy who is inside Cataclysm expels them from Cataclysm.

- Rift Walk merged with Rift Surge; damage bonus reduced.

--> Rift Torrent is instead transferred to Rift Walk.

- Rift Surge replaced with “Rift Gate”: Limbo creates a flat barrier at the target location (invisible to enemies) that displaces hostile projectiles into the opposite side of the Rift instead, enabling friendly fire. Upon activating or disabling Rift Walk, Limbo teleports to the nearest Gate within range, confusing attackers temporarily.

- Cataclysm pulls pickups and consoles into the Rift, and does not cause allies to drop datamasses. Enemies inside Cataclysm are unable to leave the field on their own, and are pulled toward the center as the sphere shrinks.

- Being inside the Rift also removes collision against entities outside of the Rift.

 

The overall idea is that Limbo uses his abilities strategically to lock down foes using the Rift itself. The redundant effects within his existing kit are intended to give you fluidity in execution, but don’t really let you play with the mechanic. Each of the types of Banishment is the same at its core, but now they all have different uses to encourage using more than one.

One of the big complaints about Limbo is that he has very little protection from enemies while inside the Rift. The trouble with this statement is that the Rift itself is intended as a form of protection, eliminating threats from the battlefield by placing their relevance in your hands. Rift Gate takes this statement to the literal extreme, allowing you to trick enemies into shooting their allies within the Rift, while giving you conditional avoidance once you’re inside.

While it makes sense that Banish limits the access of objects into the Rift, Cataclysm creates an area of Rift that should pull everything inside indiscriminately. Combined with the existing ability to disable Banish, this should reduce hostility towards Limbo players.

 

Nekros (Warning: Verbose)

Nekros is something of a touchy subject for this forum, but nonetheless needs to be addressed – and he’s been waiting over a year to be. “But Arch,” I can already hear you say, “There’s nothing wrong with a good old-fashioned support class! Desecrate’s great for Survivals, and his other skills make him great at CC!”

Well… this is where we disagree.

I agree that Nekros should be a support class, because the necromancer archetype has always been an unconventional one; whatever skills they have unrelated to raising the dead are typically geared towards debuffing enemies and increasing the effectiveness/survival of whatever they raise from the dead, each of which can splash over to their living allies. Their main form of output comes from whatever damage their minions deal (rather than spamming an attack key), which is great for a game like Warframe where enemy scaling can get truly ridiculous.

The problem is, Nekros doesn’t fulfill the expectations of a necromancer. Minion AI has been cut down so much that Shadows’ most reliable use is as a mass Decoy, rather than a form of scaling damage. Terrify as a CC does its job, but makes it difficult to target enemies under its effects and take advantage of the armor debuff. Soul Punch is a blatant gimmick, a telekinetic blast for a frame who has no reason bearing one in the first place, far surpassed by Smite; it's unreliable in how many targets it can affect at once, and is reduced to a mere ragdoll as enemy level increases. 

And then we have Desecrate. Oh, where to start with you.

Desecrate isn’t an ability; it’s a quick-time event to swing a bat at a piñata, limited to one Warframe. It’s the only button in the game built entirely on layers of RNG, forcing you to spam it to use it effectively; paired with the long cast time, this means you have very little room to build up your Shadows “soul cache”… or do anything else, really (and because of the limited casting window before corpses despawn, Natural Talent merely gives you more casts, rather than getting the job done more quickly). It doesn't blend with his toolkit; the health orbs can keep Nekros alive but do nothing for his minions, and maximizing it excludes the entirety of his arsenal. It plays the metagame for loot bonuses, rather than actively influencing the mission right in front of you. It was universally reviled when Nekros’ abilities were first described, but was pushed out against player concerns anyway – all of which have been proven justified since. If it weren’t for the corpse relation, it would have no reason being in a necromancer’s arsenal; if oxygen, resource and mod drops weren’t so borked as to need bandaids and crutches, it would have no reason being in the game at all. It is notorious for the boring backline gameplay it promotes (333, 3333, 33...), which reduces those who actually enjoy the idea of playing a necromancer to the sobbing wrecks of a clean-up crew.

It’s also Nekros’ defining trait.

That’s wrong, in every sense but factual accuracy. It should never be in the power of one class to influence the reward system of the game, because it makes the statement that the devs want this class to be the most rewarding, when all should be equally (just to different people and playstyles). Players gain a sense of entitlement towards the loot he provides, and your teammates will often get very angry if you aren't furiously mashing the button. Desecrate distills the main reason players run missions down to its purest, most mindless form; it literally bribes them to play Nekros (or at least bring some sap in to do it for them). I know DE can find a more clever way to reward players with what they want or need – at the very least, they could just improve droprates baseline – but above all they need to remove that crutch and give Nekros more interesting gameplay. 

Perhaps even the kind those of us who were excited by his announcement expected.

 

Edit 1/24 – TL;DR:

Ten problems that Devstream #45 did not address about Nekros:

 

1.      The “soul cache” mechanic on Shadows of the Dead forces Nekros players to restrict their killing blows to certain targets in order to make their Shadows worthwhile.

2.      Shadows need an AI overhaul. They aren’t “dumb” so much as too smart for competence, seeking cover when they should be aggressive and patrolling areas their summoner has already left.

3.      Shadows of the Dead, as a body-blocking tool, is a two way street; Nekros and his allies cannot see or shoot through Shadows, which just means they create clutter on the battlefield.

4.      Despite being his “Oh S#&$” button, Nekros is locked out of casting Terrify an additional time while active, leaving him defenseless if another wave of enemies approaches. Addressed before release.

5.      Of the many ways to decrease enemy armor, only one cannot approach 100% on its own within current Power Strength constrictions or be stacked to that point: Terrify. 

6.      Enemies under the effects of Terrify sprint at full-speed toward the nearest exit, synergizing poorly with the armor debuff and making it harder to clean the slate for a second cast.

7.      Soul Punch has virtually nonexistent area-effect compared to an ability like Smite or Pull, and does not provide sufficient benefits (without the augment) to justify being single-target like Banish or Rip Line. It's just a knockdown at high level, which each of those have and more.

8.      Desecrate’s reliance on RNG forces it to be spammed for maximum effectiveness; this spam locks Nekros players out of using his other abilities or attacks, and makes it difficult to build the “soul cache”. Altogether, this promotes boring backline gameplay.

9.      Desecrate does not synergize with the rest of Nekros’ kit; despite Shadows making him the one frame who can justify having a team to support even in solo mode, they can’t benefit from the loot his “support” provides (nor approach it if they could).

 

Finally, but most importantly,

 

10.    Desecrate’s metagame benefits make the loot it provides more important to players than any other skill in Nekros’ arsenal; it doesn't even provide a strong benefit in the mission, but players tear each other apart over it because of the benefits it provides once they leave (many a group has fallen apart because someone didn't want to play a Nekros when the host was hunting a rare mod). Any changes to his other skills won't matter so long as he has to spam this skill, or build exclusively Power Range for the benefit of this skill alone.

 

Suggested changes:

- Soul Punch damage increases as the primary target's health gets lower.

- Terrify staggers all affected targets upon activation, and slows them for an amount based on rank. Can be prematurely cleared by recasting the effect. Armor debuff increased to 40%.

--> In Dark Sectors/Conclave/Dojo, Terrify inverts enemy movement controls for a few seconds (as it cannot simulate AI change on players).

- Desecrate replaced with “Siphon Life”: Deals instant Viral damage to enemies in a cone in front of Nekros, then releases a pulse of radial healing from Nekros to allies (including minions and companions) based on accumulated damage dealt. High proc chance.

- Despoil is now "Stolen Time": Casts of Siphon Life increase the Duration of your active or next Shadows of the Dead.

- Shadows of the Dead can be recast while active to instantly call any surviving minions to your side. (See "AI overhaul" under General for further details.) Kills made by Shadows count as kills made by Nekros, for all intents and purposes. Casting cost reduced if below the maximum number of minions are being summoned.

- Energy pool increased to 150->225.

 

Combined with the AI tweaks and ability changes mentioned under “General” above, this will course-correct Nekros back to the role he should have had all along: minion support and control, with side benefits that splash over to non-minion allies just enough to make each skill stand alone. 

"Why Viral damage?" Because it’s more effective against living enemies than Infested or Robots, and its proc gives the effect of actually sapping the target’s life force. Thematically, it also marks Nekros as the opposite of Oberon, a healer and defender of the weak - Nekros, the disabler and manipulator of the strong.

"But isn't this a bit drastic?" Yes, that's sort of the point. You'll also note that abilities like Fireball, Silence, Hysteria and the entirety of Ash, Rhino, Trinity and Mag's skillsets have been reworked as drastically in the past over several iterations, to the point you would not even recognize them compared to their releases – the same abilities in name only. I'm simply speeding things up (2 year's worth of interest, as it were) and dropping the pretense.

 

Saryn

Far as I can tell, Saryn was intended to be a melee frame, or at best mid-range. She has above-average defense like a melee would need, relatively low range on her direct-damage abilities, and an ability that makes her melee attacks deal more elemental damage. Her major issue is that, since Damage 2.0, the Poison/Toxic element in itself isn’t all that effective, since it doesn’t ignore all forms of defense anymore – thus making Contagion less effective as a damage skill, and reducing her appeal in melee. To make matters worse, it costs 75 energy for a buff that only affects Saryn herself, and only with melee attacks; if she doesn't have a melee weapon equipped, then it becomes completely useless. Speed and Warcry completely blow it out of the water, since they grant a substantial boost to the whole party (and, between Speed's lower cost and Warcry's debuff, are more cost effective to boot!). It's been repeatedly called a useless and forgettable ability, so perhaps it's time for Saryn to... shed her skin, so to speak.

Suggested changes:

- Venom spores are more responsive to area-effect attacks, each melee attack will also pop at least one spore, and any unpopped spores on a slain enemy will automatically detonate (without spreading the effect) against nearby foes.

- Venom Dose applies its effects to all allies in a radius around a friendly target.

- Molt transfers all buffs, debuffs and statuses from the casting Saryn to the decoy upon summoning and briefly makes her immune to reapplication. When the Molt fades or is destroyed, explosion damage is increased by total damage it received.

- Contagion replaced with “Allure”: Grants damage mitigation to the caster, with a small Gas damage aura surrounding Saryn capable of popping Venom spores.

- Contagion Clouds is now "Irresistible Allure": Targets within range of Allure are slowed and continuously pulled closer.

- Miasma has a 100% status chance per tick. Power Duration adds additional ticks with stagger; reducing Power Duration no longer increases damage dealt.

Yes, Allure is both a perfume pun (THOSE HEELS and fungal growths THOUGH) and a revival of Overheat. Scott has already said Overheat was not right in Ember’s hands, and I’m inclined to agree – it’s not fit for someone intended to spam Fireball from half a room away, but it’s perfect for someone with Saryn's values of range and defense. Plus, it opens the door to let Saryn use every Toxin-based element (she’s already got three!). With the change to Molt, the player can now transfer the mitigation to the Molt to make it last longer (plus Gas damage for those melee enemies), culminating in one final explosion of poison damage (or two, since Molt does more damage if it lasts the whole duration - benefiting from mitigation). Alternately, players can Leeroy Jenkins with Allure up for maximum Venom effectiveness, bringing Saryn back to her glory days of a hundred DoT ticks a second. Meanwhile, Miasma has armor-reducing DoT to take advantage of the way Corrosive procs stack (THAT’s how you do an anti-armor skill, NOT Terrify), skyrocketing Saryn’s damage utility against all factions.

 

Zephyr

While a “Hawk” frame had always been on the infamous Design Council poll that spawned Nova, Nekros and Valkyr, Zephyr was originally inspired by a fan concept by the infamous Volkovyi. About midway through his thread, Volkovyi revamped Zephyr’s abilities with one emphasis in mind: air support. Volkovyi's Zephyr had an almost perfect kit for the role, everything from free flight to create distance, to rooting projectiles to constantly rain down fire on foes, to barriers against the ballistic attacks that could reach her – several of which were translated, in some form or other, when the gender-swapped version was officially released.

So why does DE's Zephyr disappoint? Some will say that it’s because an air support just isn't viable in certain indoor structures, since it gives her very little room to maneuver, but I completely disagree. In truth, it’s because she focused more on being maneuverable than on actually spending time in the air; her utility ends up taking a backseat to personal speed as a result. For Zephyr, as with Nekros above, I think we should take a step back and look at the presented concept, to remember what exactly what so inspiring about the class.

 

Suggested changes:

- Tail Wind merged with Dive Bomb: Aiming in a 90-degree cone beneath Zephyr while airborne will cause her to drop upon the targeted location at high speed. Once the effect ends, the user's falling speed is slowed equal to an aim-glide state, affected by Power Duration and separate from base aim-gliding duration; using aim-glide in this state will provide no further gravity reduction, and jumping will cancel this effect.

- Dive Bomb replaced with “Wind Tunnel”: Zephyr continuously fires a cylinder of wind in front of herself, dealing low Impact damage with 100% status chance. Enemies to reach the end of the "beam" will be ragdolled out, while headshots will also inflict knockdown. While active, Zephyr cannot move and is immune to gravity (similar to Absorb), but can turn the beam with the camera.

- Turbulence no longer reduces enemy accuracy. Instead, the inner radius has a X% chance to harmlessly deflect/negate any projectiles, and an additional Y% chance to aim deflected projectiles at enemies within the outer radius. Both chances affected by Power Strength.

- Tornado will attempt to follow unsnared enemies instead of wandering aimlessly. Enemies struck will be trapped inside each cyclone for the entire duration, rather than ragdolling out of the top. Physical damage dealt to a cyclone is instantly split between all enemies inside of it.

 

First thing's first, Dive Bomb. It has long been called one of the most redundant skills in the game, giving her an additional gap closer when she already has the free-aimed Tail Wind. It takes her out of her element to use it, which wouldn't be such an issue if she had any trouble getting down in the first place, when her issue is really the opposite - not being nearly “floaty” enough to continue firing from the air. The addition of aim-gliding helps this some, but only for so long. Wind Tunnel can instead allow Zephyr to remain airborne while active.

Now, since I’m writing this (but not the above suggestion itself) up after Update 15.5, I'm also aware of another issue on the mind: Yes, Turbulence is awfully similar to Shatter Shield. You can read Volkovyi's thread to understand why the similarity, of course, since it long predated Mesa. Turbulence as it is now limits Zephyr to fighting within a set range from enemies – which just won’t do if she is to do any air-sniping.

The other changes are designed to bring more synergy to Zephyr’s kit. For example, Tail Wind’s ability to damage enemies in flight, while derived from Slash Dash, could also be transferred into her Tornado to deal damage to those she renders airborne.

 

Everyone Else Ash-Mag

Note: This section primarily consists of minor tweaks, and revamps I didn’t consider terribly substantial. If you have more to say about your favorite frame being in here rather than up above (or off this list entirely), feel free to complain below.

Ash

- Shuriken gain a stealth modifier against unalerted enemies, and inflict a stagger. Throws an additional blade with Punch Through; this blade does not have homing capabilities, and moves linearly in the direction of your crosshairs.

- Teleport can be cast without a target, moving the player as close to the targeted location as Power Range allows. If a non-friendly target is selected, casting Teleport automatically begins a hastened finisher on the enemy - skip the elaborate weapon draw, and double the animation speed of the strike.

- Bladestorm can strike bosses multiple times for reduced damage.

Banshee

- Sonic Boom's damage now increases if enemies strike obstructions (ie Snow Globe), and can be cast without interrupting reloads.

- Sonar can be recast to reroll the positions of current weakspots. (This will reset additional weakspots created by the augment.)

- Silence also silences allied weapons within the radius, to prevent detection by enemies outside of the sniper's immediate radius.

 

Chroma

- Spectral Scream is treated as a weapon (a la Peacemaker) for the purposes of Vex Armor, Shooting Gallery, etc.; cone length and width increased by 50%. Personal slow reduced or removed.

- Afterburn reworked: Every second which Spectral Scream strikes a surface, it lays down an elemental patch dealing (25/50/75/100) additional periodic damage for (3/4/4/5) sec.

- Elemental Ward range increased to 20m, and now affects companions.

--> Heat: Status chance increased to 25%, and Chroma cauterizes his wounds, healing for 5% of his maximum health every second (percentage unaffected by mods).

- Vex Armor also grants the user stagger resistance while active. Overshields allow stacking of Scorn.

- Effigy initial cost reduced to 30; sentry's attack rate increased, and gains Decoy-level threat.

 

Equinox

- Metamorphosis no longer cancels the effects of Mend or Maim; instead, the accumulated health pool is shared between the two forms while the effects of each ability are "suspended" for Metamorphosis' animation. (Enemies will not receive Bleed while in or shifting to Night Form, while allies will not be healed while in or shifting to Day Form.)

- Pacify's effects no longer fall off at range, and energy is only drained when enemies within range begin attacks.

- Mend bleeds off up to a flat amount of charge (affected by Power Strength) from the accumulated charge pool every second to heal allies within range while active. When deactivated, excess healing contributes to Shields and Overshields.

 

Excalibur

- Radial Javelin is now affected by the combo multiplier, which is also reset by this skill. Once again summons a minimum number of javelins based on rank, to return synergy with Bullet Attractor.

- Passive: Excalibur's combo counter takes (at least) twice as long to reset as other Warframes.

 

Frost

- Freeze Force affects anyone in Freeze's initial blast radius.

- Snow Globe can be penetrated from the front by friendly weapons with Punch Through. The globe appears to crack based on what percentage of health it has left, and a shattering cue can be heard if it breaks prematurely.

- Passive: Frost resists any form of slow, making him unable to drop below his base running speed.

 

Loki

- Switch Teleport can target Explosive Barrels and Arc Traps. Enemies will continue shooting at Loki's original location as if he entered stealth; hostile targets can receive friendly fire during this period.

- Radial Disarm disables the abilities and flight of Mutalist Infested, Grineer Regulators and Hellions (as with Corpus Ospreys); additionally, all Grineer Machinery, Corpus Robotics or Mutalist Infested are damaged and stunned for a brief period.

 

Mag

- Pull once again attempts to drag enemies to the caster's feet, rather than ragdoll-flinging them; can be used through walls. Damage unaffected.

- Shield Polarize also causes restored shields to erupt.

- Bullet Attractor's explosion removed, cost reduced by 35-55%, and can be canceled by recasting the effect. The point of attraction can be aimed at a specific point on the target on-cast. All shots into or within the sphere automatically redirect to the target, with Punch Through against any obstructions between.

- Crush causes enemies within range of one another to magnetize toward each other, dealing additional Impact damage in each cluster per enemy "bundled".

--> Augment: Enemy clusters formed by Crush are thrown in the direction of the player's cursor at the end of the cast, dealing additional splash damage at the impact location.

 

Everyone Else Mesa-Volt

Note: This section primarily consists of minor tweaks, and revamps I didn’t consider terribly substantial. If you have more to say about your favorite frame being in here rather than up above (or off this list entirely), feel free to complain below.

 

Mesa

- Ballistic Battery benefits multiple shots within a short duration (affected by rank only) after activation, with a weakening bonus on each successive shot. Can be charged by blocking attacks with melee.

- Shooting Gallery also increases fire rate and benefits all Tenno within range of Mesa at all times, rather than jumping over the course of the effect.

- Extra considerations for Shatter Shield:

- Shatter Shield replaced with “Bullet Hell”: Mesa sharpens her reflexes, increasing her movement speed and allowing her to spend ammo (from her currently-equipped weapon's reserve ammo pool, not the clip) to shoot incoming projectiles out of the air with her Regulators; this functions similarly to manually blocking with a melee weapon.

--> Bullet Hell can be prematurely deactivated similarly to Rift Walk. The blocking is an automatic process, and deals damage to each bullet’s source based on her Power Strength.

--> Essentially, it's Shatter Shield with a higher cost, an extra benefit, and an aesthetic element befitting a supernatural sharpshooter.

 

- Shatter Shield replaced with “Bullet Time”: Mesa gains one Dodge charge. When attacked, she expends the charge to briefly slow every hostile force around herself (including projectiles – hitscan attacks to enter the radius gain travel time, like an anti-Bullet Attractor); pressing a movement key while the effect is active will allow her to teleport a short distance away.

--> The teleport would be usable during Peacemaker, but Bullet Time could not be recast without ending Peacemaker.

--> If Shooting Gallery can deal with ranged foes, Bullet Time would be more useful for avoiding melee enemies.

 

Mirage

- Sleight of Hand causes access panels to explode as soon as the enemy tries to use them, and renders the panel permanently unusable by enemies; lockers will suck nearby enemies inside for the remainder of the duration, a la Undertow.

Nova

- Null Star staggers targets on every hit

Nyx

- Psychic Bolts deal increased Finisher damage, but part of the damage dealt by each bolt is healed from surviving targets over a period affected by Power Duration. Each bolt will attempt to seek a new nearby enemy if the target dies while the bolt is in-transit.

 

Oberon

- Smite Infusion also grants its benefits to allies struck by the secondary projectiles, which will home in on allies if enemies are not nearby.

- Hallowed Ground's armor bonus stacks; purges all debuffs and negative attachments (ie swarms, leeches) from Tenno who walk over it.

- Renewal will continue healing players so long as Duration remains, regardless of the team's health totals. Duration is affected linearly rather than inversely. Energy drain and duration begins once an orb makes contact with allies.

 

Rhino

- Iron Skin now has a capped amount of damage it can receive per second (a la Nullifier bubbles), affected by Rhino's armor.

- Roar also compels enemies alerted to his presence within range of the effect to attack Rhino.

- Arcane Vanguard Helmet reduced from +25% Speed to +15% Speed

Trinity

- Well of Life's life drain can also revive downed players if the target is killed while the effect is active.

- Pool of Life replaced with “Lifeblood”: Casting Well of Life on an ally grants them a percentage of life drain, with a capped amount of healing it can grant per player.

 

Valkyr

- Rip Line casts against the environment cause Valkyr to knock down enemies she passes through (ie dive kick).

- Paralysis stun duration doubled.

- Prolonged Paralysis no longer affects stun duration; augment renamed.

- Hysteria no longer makes Valkyr invulnerable or deals damage to the player when it ends, but instead prevents Valkyr from falling below 1 health (by any means) while active. While active, damage dealt to the user's health increases the user's damage dealt until the effect ends (exchange rate affected by rank and Power Strength). Hysteria can be canceled by recasting the effect, and is affected by the mods on a melee weapon regardless of the weapon itself.

Vauban

- Tesla staggers on every hit

- Bounce only procs for allies upon jumping on/into it, rather than instantly flinging players

Volt 

- Shock Trooper allows Shock to chain through allies who have not yet received its buff.

- Speed's visual distortion reduced.

- Electric Shield also counts as an electrical appliance for the purposes of Overload. Visual distortion reduced.

--> Augment: Riot Shield - Electric Shield attaches itself to allies who pass through it, with X% of its size and remaining duration. (Functions similarly to Odonata's Energy Shell. Would not count as an appliance while attached to a Tenno.)

- Overload's destroyed electronics can regenerate after a 30 second period.

 

Victories so far

14.5.0: Oberon

"- Smite deals Radiation/Puncture [...] status chance increased to 100%. 

- Hallowed Ground is summoned under Oberon's feet and grants (stackable) damage reduction to allies standing in it. 

- Renewal is now a Toggled aura [...] Activating Renewal also instantly purges status effects from allies within range (but only on the first pulse) and increases recovery time."

 

15.2.0: Nyx

"- Mind Control prevents the target from receiving damage from Tenno while active, THEN deals the accumulated damage the target would have taken from Tenno when the effect ends."

 

15.9.0: Excalibur

"- Slash Dash increases Excalibur's melee combo count by 1 per enemy hit."

 

16.10.0: Rhino

"- Rhino Charge ragdolls affected targets, pushing them out of the way."

 

Change Log - Update 17

Sep 16, '15

- Altered description for Limbo's Rift Gate suggestion.

- Changed note for Sonic Boom to deal damage along the levels of Snow Globe.

 

Sep 04, '15:

- Added suggestion for augment to Siphon Life. (Page 78)

 

Aug 29, '15:

- Added note for Equinox's Pacify, on suggestion from FelisImpurrator. (Page 75-6)

 

Aug 23, '15:

- Added augment suggestion for Saryn's Allure.

 

Aug 21, '15: 

- Created a section in the upper lists for Hydroid, to highlight flaws within his kit.

 

Aug 19, '15:

- Upon careful consideration, Equinox has been added to the lower lists. (Page 74-5)

- Added EchoesOfRain's suggestions for Zephyr. (Page 74)

 

Aug 01, '15:

- Frost moved to the lower lists while his recent changes are evaluated.

- Chroma's Toxin Ward note removed.

 

Jul 25, '15:

- Added Azamagon's suggestion for Shuriken. (Page 71)

- Added FelisImpurrator's suggestion for Spectral Scream. (Page 71)

 

Jul 09, '15:

- Added suggestion for Shield Polarize to detonate off allied shields.

- Added suggestion for Bullet Attractor to be toggleable, as well as aimed.

 

Jul 01, '15:

- Added "fire patch" and stacking damage to Fireball's description, on par with suggested changes to Freeze.

- Un-simplified note for Fire Blast (Jun 25 revision); Blasting Zone reintroduced.

- Added early suggestion for Elemental Ward's Toxin effect replacement post-Stamina removal. (Page 69)

 

Jun 26, '15:

- Altered Tornado's note to follow enemies instead of the previous suggestion to be aimed. 

- Altered Tentacle Swarm's note to create a consistent formation on-cast.

- Added a new Passive suggestion for Frost.

 

Jun 25, '15:

- Added a note to Hysteria to be affected by mods in the same manner as Exalted Blade. (Page 69)

- Simplified the note for Fire Blast.

- Removed Rhino Charge note in response to his rework.

 

Jun 17, '15:

- Updated Excalibur's section in light of the release of his rework.

 

Jun 12, '15:

- Expanded Limbo's section and added it back to upper echelons.

--> Introduced Rift Gate replacement of Rift Surge (merged with Rift Walk).

--> Increased CC potential of Banish and Cataclysm.

 

Jun 06, '15:

- Added a note about threat to Ember's Rising Phoenix.

- Updated Nekros description.

 

May 22, '15

- Added a suggestion by FelisImpurrator for Bladestorm. (Page 66)

- Added a note about Tentacle Swarm's targeting. (Page 67)

 

May 03, 15:

- Altered suggestion for Renewal, in response to Noble_Cactus' and taiiat's commentary. (Page 62)

- Added new suggestion for Iron Skin.

- On request from MixterFox, Chroma's Elemental Ward also includes a note to affect companions. (Page 65)

 

Apr 28, '15:

- Removed suggestion for Despoil replacement.

 

Apr 24, '15:

- After recent discussions and revelations, Elemental Ward: Toxin's note has been removed. (Page 64)

 

Apr 13, '15:

- Scrapped Typhoon replacement for Dive Bomb, reverted to Gale Force.

- Expanded Ember commentary on Rising Phoenix.

 

Apr 10, '15:

- Simplified Soul Punch suggestion and called for a debuff increase to Terrify.

- In response to today's devstream, all Super Jump suggestions have been removed and Radial Javelin's suggestion is simplified. The rest of Excalibur's list will be maintained in the hopes of implementation following his rework.

 

Apr 09, '15:

- Added a note for Overshields to Vex Armor.

- In response to recent forum discussions about Update 16.3's nerf to Limbo, reversion is recommended.

 

Apr 08, '15:

- Clarified Typhoon as a one-handed cast. (Page 61)

 

Apr 03, '15:

- Increased range on Spectral Scream and Elemental Ward, on request from Endrian. (Page 59)

- Added stagger immunity to Vex Armor based on the same suggestion.

- Increased Effigy threat.

 

Apr 02, '15:

- After much deliberation, Chroma has finally been added to the lower lists.

 

Mar 21, '15:

- Replaced World on Fire considerations with Rising Phoenix, inspired by a suggestion from theammostore. (Page 57)

- Altered Fire Blast suggestion, to tick twice as often for half as much damage.

 

Mar 20, '15:

- First implementation of Change Log, on request from BETAOPTICS. (Page 57) Alas, that I did not keep detailed records with which to retroactively catalogue each change by date.

- Removed the redundant ragdoll suggestion from Mag's Crush in response to major update.

- Added feature to Volt's Electric Shield by request from taiiat. (Page 57)

 

If you have any adjustments of your own to add to the list, or would like to argue about what’s already there, feel free.

 

And if you think “everything's fine as it is”, this is clearly not the thread for you.

 

Imo I imagine all Frames having a Ulti like Exalted Blade, was thinking about Valkyrs Hysteria being a Stance with innate combos and certain abilities synergizing within it like Bullet jumps and rip lines could some how mesh. spin attack could cast a paralysis after the attack or maybe something more elaborate and efficient.

 

Frost could turn to a Giant Sasquash and casting 1 he throws glaciers that have a 50% chance to freeze enemies and a punch through.

Avalance could still be his innate ability while ground slamming and drops glaciers and icebergs (Just creating ideas dont kill me)

 

Nekros i really like Surturs idea of a Colossal Reaper form and making desecrate the Reapers innate ability instead of forcing us to spam 3 which is a wasted annoying ability that doesnt guarantee any results just a small amount of loot energy and health orbs. This will synergize Nekros alot more and define him as the actual Necromancer frame he should be. The Reaper for could also be a stance I considered an idea on Groundslams the Reaper slams his Giant scythe and hands of the dead Grab all enemies within the AoE stunning them for attacks.

 

Mesa could have a eacemaker stance aswell with synergy throughout her kit making shooting gallery innate and lesser cost, a mobile peacemaker with a LoS for the aim-bot to target instead of hold click. Shooting Gallery should simultaneously function for Mesa and her allies and work more efficiently since this is her CC ability and helps her alot. innate shatter shield while in peacemaker maybe to balance er squishiness 

 

Ash could Bladestorm in a Free form having his Clones attack and Ash goes into Melee only, free teleports to conpensate the loss of Bladestorms mobility all attacks from ash could be finishers and shuriken can be innate with a small cost, and smoke screen aswell with a short duration and a great choke/stun cloud for finishers. This might work better as i have focused on researching games with cutscene kills and its hard to work with architecture and objects protruding plus Bladestorm looks better when watching another player do it.

 

This idea concurred to me since I figure all Warframes could evolve and feel ultimate while in there Ultimates.

Might be tooo OP for some but im sure there could be a balance and this could be implemented for All Warframes these are just the few i was able to come up with.

 

If you have ideas for other Frames Ultimates in this Fashion dont hesitate to post your ideas. After all this is just ideas not an actual concept thats gonna happen, lets open ourr minds and create something fun to play for All Frames xD

[Archwizard]

They confirmed on todays stream that Valkyrs ultimate will accept mods like Exalted Blade and is toggled.

 

Also Mend will affect shields and attack powers will get a combo system.

 

Neat!

 

To be honest, I'm more interested in the ability comboing system they announced for Atlas' first attack and Rip Line.

 

It creates this interesting grey area: On the one-hand, a number of abilities could be improved by the addition of this system. Most basic skills like Fireball and Shock rapidly become underwhelming as level increases without the use of augments, and comboing would create an interesting supplement without necessary need to have the damage itself scale - fire off the attack enough times, it'll cost you virtually nothing for a heap of damage, and only be possible against incredibly strong enemies.

However, aside from the comboing ability, Atlas' punch isn't particularly spectacular - especially by comparison to Slash Dash. Of course, I have my own issues with the punch to begin with; for a Brawler frame, Atlas only has one 'brawl-y' skill, and for an Earth frame, the punch is horrendously out of place.

 

Imo I imagine all Frames having a Ulti like Exalted Blade

 

Would rapidly get repetitive.

 

To start with, I actually like Shadows of the Dead as an ultimate: It executes exactly what Nekros should do (animate the dead, as a horde), and scales its output wonderfully.

Up until Nekros, every ultimate was some kind of radial damage effect. You're suggesting swapping that dynamic from Miasma and Crush variants to Exalted Blade and Hysteria variants - and torching the abilities in between.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Archwizard

[Archwizard]

An ongoing Reddit discussion has me considering some changes to Oberon. Let the spitballing ensue:

 

- Renewal can apply its bleedout extension to downed allies, once the projectile reaches them. (This would be in addition to the listed changes - although I might remove the listed Energy Drain note to compensate.)

- Hallowed Ground instead provides allies with a percentage of Oberon's armor, affected by Power Strength. (A net neutral for Oberon, a loss for heavy frames like Valkyr but a massive gain for lower-armored frames which make up the majority, particularly casters. This would be an alternative to the listed change to stack the effect.)

 

Thoughts?

[taiiat]

- Renewal can apply its bleedout extension to downed allies, once the projectile reaches them. (This would be in addition to the listed changes - although I might remove the listed Energy Drain note to compensate.)

- Hallowed Ground instead provides allies with a percentage of Oberon's armor, affected by Power Strength. (A net neutral for Oberon, a loss for heavy frames like Valkyr but a massive gain for lower-armored frames which make up the majority, particularly casters. This would be an alternative to the listed change to stack the effect.)

*reads the Oberon section again*

your Oberon notes don't include travel speed and such, having Energy Drain while the Ability is potentially doing nothing doesn't make much sense to me.

if you're not at 100% Health, Hallowed Ground would be draining Energy when you cast it with what you're suggesting anyways, so most of the time Oberon will be draining before Renewal actually does anything for anyone else.

i also see the notes don't include Casting Time for Renewal either. it's... rather long/slow.

a percentage of Oberon's Armor being applied to Players in the Rectangle would be interesting, i also would accept a flat value of Armor like the Reckoning Augment. ofcourse while removing the stacking capability of Hallowed Ground(so overlapping only makes sure you don't have coverage holes rather than stacking the effects).

would prefer if it was a Percentage of Oberon's total Armor. making Armor Mods have synergy with the Ability.

[Volinus7]

Oberon Tweaks.

1.Add punch through to Smite projectiles. You don't have to spam as hard as before.

2.Make his carpet circle shape 15m radius at 100% range. Grant 75%DR on the carpet.

3.Extend his healing, it won't stop at full health but heal the entire duration so you don't have to spam it again over a little scratch.

Make cast animation faster.

If you slam into an enemy during the renewal casting, you get x2 healing. [Kinda like ground finisher]

4.Reckoning blind effect applied on all enemies in blind radius that survived, lifted one included.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Volinus7

[Archwizard]

*reads the Oberon section again*

your Oberon notes don't include travel speed and such, having Energy Drain while the Ability is potentially doing nothing doesn't make much sense to me.

if you're not at 100% Health, Hallowed Ground would be draining Energy when you cast it with what you're suggesting anyways, so most of the time Oberon will be draining before Renewal actually does anything for anyone else.

i also see the notes don't include Casting Time for Renewal either. it's... rather long/slow.

Probably because I'm not seeing any benefit to Renewal being toggled at all; all that does is add to the effective cost, since it requires more energy in-transit. If it didn't have a max Duration, the activation and travel time versus the healing and bleedout reduction would guarantee nobody would ever turn it off.

The travel time works as a balancing feature - it encourages you to be on the front line and stick to your allies, an acceptable penalty for a Paladin - but in its current state it's just another straw on the camel's back.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Archwizard

[taiiat]

Probably because I'm not seeing any benefit to Renewal being toggled at all; all that does is add to the effective cost, since it requires more energy in-transit. If it didn't have a max Duration, the activation and travel time versus the healing and bleedout reduction would guarantee nobody would ever turn it off.

very well. i see that.

still would want the Casting Animation to lock you in place less. that's the biggest annoyance usually, since the Projectiles are automatic even if they take time to get there.

Make Hallowed Ground a Circle

hold up there.

i want the Rectangle.

(the only solution being to figure out how to let Players choose the Rectangle or a Circle)

Edited September 23, 2015 by taiiat

[Archwizard]

Already scribbling some of this in the OP.

 

3.Make cast animation faster.

If you slam into an enemy during the renewal casting, you get x2 healing. [Kinda like ground finisher]

still would want the Casting Animation to lock you in place less. that's the biggest annoyance usually, since the Projectiles are automatic even if they take time to get there.

 

What's interesting about that is, I'm fairly certain they just use the blocking animation for whatever melee weapon you're currently wielding. Haven't tested on all weapons so I don't know for certain, of course... but it might be interesting to give him a degree of damage reduction while he's actually casting Renewal.

 

i want the Rectangle.
(the only solution being to figure out how to let Players choose the Rectangle or a Circle)

 

Hmm, if only there were a system in place that allowed you to target and influence the effects of one ability in particular...

Edited September 24, 2015 by Archwizard

[Elydir]

Reckonings just a bland crush clone. It makes no sense, and its boring.

 

Maybe instead it should be like an aura. Or a field like Cata. A death orb that grows slowly but persistantly.

[Archwizard]

Maybe instead it should be like an aura. Or a field like Cata. A death orb that grows slowly but persistantly.

 

I'm not sure how either of those makes more sense than current Reckoning, to be honest.

 

I agree that Reckoning is unimaginative and cluttered, but I don't think the solution to that is to just find another existing ultimate (like World on Fire or Maim) and clone it. At any rate, Hallowed Ground already creates a field effect.

[taiiat]

Reckoning might be a 'Crush clone' (though Crush has multiple pulses, so they're not that similar now) - but it's a better clone than the original, since it has so many interesting effects.

 

i'd put Crush as the lame one in that comparison.

[Tyranti]

I've recently built Nekros despite all the things I've heard about him, but because of those particular playerbase views, I'm reluctant to play him in public matchmaking. I fear just what the OP states, that people will get aggravated that I'm not running a Desecrate build and not being "optimal" in my usefulness. I plan on asking in Devstream announcement threads whether or not there are plans to change the ability.

 

The main thing I wanted to talk about is his 4th though. I like the suggestions, overall. Particularly if the AI tuning was also handled accordingly. I always thought that shadows should have the AI of heavy units / Eximus though, regardless of what was summoned. I think it would give them an appropriately zombified feel as well... Not to mention work with the current augment, since they'd probably be willing to step in your way.

 

On another note, I believe that the way to benefit the soul cache mechanic would be to have it sort out the enemies killed based on rarity of the unit's spawn rate. This way it would prioritize summoning heavy units over, say, a Butcher or Roller, and so that the Nekros player can freely kill just like every other frame and not be handicapping himself in the process.

Buuut, I see this making the ability possibly feel bland / repetitive in that it may summon all the same unit (even if summoning entirely bombards / napalms / etc would be fun, and is probably very possible if personally inefficient in the current build), and propose a short fix to that as well: allow the cache to only summon, say, 2 or 3 of the same unit. So now you have some variety in every cast... Or, at the very most, you always have 2 or 3 of each heavy unit. If you run into a stint of heavy units, say only one type, the extras will still be stored for later casts, and still prioritize keeping them over lesser units. This cap isn't exactly necessary though, just a thought towards some forced variety.

 

The alternative to the above sorting would be for every unit to have a "value", so to speak, if they don't already in the first place. Higher is obviously prioritized over lower, and the soul cache stocks up on high value targets while discarding ones deemed lesser unless necessary. It's made simpler if entire groups of units are classed under separate singular values, like a few ranges from the typical cannon fodder to the more hulking type.

 

So the last thing would be if your teammates are taking all the heavy unit kills. Currently, Shadows are buffed beyond the capabilities of what they once were, with a (unmodded) max and static value of 150% dmg, and 100% health. This is obviously better for a stronger unit, and less effective for weaker ones. I would say that the base bonuses should be relative to the unit's power. Where a Bombard would still have the bonus 150% dmg and 100% hp, a Lancer may have 300% dmg and 200% hp. It may not be exact, but the point is to make all Shadows somewhat powerful, so even if you don't kill heavies, you're still rewarded with a strong ultimate ability that doesn't particularly incentivize absolutely having to pick up all of the strongest units. At the same time, the heavier units should still be a bit stronger in dps and health regardless of the change in buffing values, but it at least makes it so you don't end up having a handful of relatively squishier mooks that makes you feel like you did something wrong in killing the hordes just like everyone else.

 

If any of these ideas were already mentioned somewhere in the thread, my apologies. There's just so many pages. >.>

Edited September 27, 2015 by Tyranti

[taiiat]

So the last thing would be if your teammates are taking all the heavy unit kills ... ... but it at least makes it so you don't end up having a handful of relatively squishier mooks that makes you feel like you did something wrong in killing the hordes just like everyone else.

i'll agree with the general sentiment there, so that Shadows aren't almost useless just because you 'shot the wrong Enemy'.

 

though i've heard of other options for being able to selectively choose what to store, which would also certainly help, especially if you want to keep certain Enemy Types and avoid others, Et Cetera.

options which i believe included using Soul Punch to mark Enemies for capture for N seconds if Killed by you, sorting hierarchies of what enemies to keep or don't keep and what to prefer to keep in the Soul Cache, Et Cetera.

Edited September 27, 2015 by taiiat

[Azamagon]

In regards to Nekros ulti, if Desecrate got removed (hear me out on this), his ulti could instead work with both corpses and the soul cache.

 

I mean, think about it, if it worked like this:

* Upon cast, if no corpses are around, all of the summons for SotD are chosen from your soul cache

* Upon cast, if you have no soul cache, it summons enemies based on the corpses around you within a huge range (affected by Power Range)

* Upon cast, if you have both corpses around and a stored soul cache, 50/50 of the summons are from nearby corpses and the soul cache.

* A target hit by Soul Punch could immediately count towards the soul cache (once it dies ofc), even if you don't kill it yourself. Considering Arch's idea of Soul Punch dealing more damage towards a target the less HP it has, and his Soul Feast ability being likely to proc Viral, taking out the heavies could be easily done with just a Feast+Punch combo as well, quickly allowing you to add it to your soul cache rooster completely by yourself regardless.

 

There you go, easy choosing of great soul cache targets with Soul Punch AND some semi-forced "mook" summoning too due to SotD also choosing corpses. Buuuut, that requires Desecrate being scrapped.

[taiiat]

* A target hit by Soul Punch could immediately count towards the soul cache (once it dies ofc), even if you don't kill it yourself. Considering Arch's idea of Soul Punch dealing more damage towards a target the less HP it has, and his Soul Feast ability being likely to proc Viral, taking out the heavies could be easily done with just a Feast+Punch combo as well, quickly allowing you to add it to your soul cache rooster completely by yourself regardless.

while i like the Synergy combo, i was under the impression that Soul Punch was dealing extra Damage the lower an Enemy's Health is vs their total maximum Health, not just their Health Value in general.

 

Viral Status reduces Maximum and Current Health by 50% for 6 Seconds. and once expires, returns the Maximum Health.

so reducing the Maximum Health in the way i'm interpreting this - would make Soul Punch less Effective, rather than more. unless you were to wait 6 Seconds.

[(PSN)Xewkeryx]

Loving your suggestion for Iron Skin, totally.

[Archwizard]

I fear just what the OP states, that people will get aggravated that I'm not running a Desecrate build and not being "optimal" in my usefulness. I plan on asking in Devstream announcement threads whether or not there are plans to change the ability.

 

You have to be delicate with that kind of question. Considering the number of times the devs have used the word "Desecrate" on streams just to troll players, the likely response is "No, we have no plans to change it" - especially given, from their perspective, how much of the playerbase is in support of their allies providing loot with it (despite that being exactly the issue) versus the "vocal minority" (consisting primarily of people who actually enjoy playing him). The key is to outline exactly what the negatives are, and see if they agree those are negatives at all versus "acceptable losses" of intended functionality.

 

while i like the Synergy combo, i was under the impression that Soul Punch was dealing extra Damage the lower an Enemy's Health is vs their total maximum Health, not just their Health Value in general.

 

Viral Status reduces Maximum and Current Health by 50% for 6 Seconds. and once expires, returns the Maximum Health.

so reducing the Maximum Health in the way i'm interpreting this - would make Soul Punch less Effective, rather than more. unless you were to wait 6 Seconds.

 

The idea was that it would be based on a percentage of the health they're missing at the time you cast it, relative to their total. Even after the changes to Viral status, being able to chain it with Siphon Life means that Soul Punch as an execution would have less resistance (after you've softened them up a bit), while not receiving any direct enhancements from the status application itself.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Archwizard

[Elydir]

New Warframe: Atlas

 

Titan of stone, lord of the earthly elementals.  Atlas’ powers include:

• Power 1 - Landslide: Bash enemies with an explosive sliding punch, repeat for a devastating combo.
• Power 2 - Tectonics: Summon a rock-wall, activate again to send the rocks crashing toward the enemy.
• Power 3 - Petrify: Fossilize foes with Atlas` hardened gaze.
• Power 4 - Rumblers: Summon two elemental stone brawlers to the melee.

Warframe Changes

 

Toggled Abilities and Energy Drain:  The following adjustments have been made to Abilities that can toggle on or off with the intention of making each Ability more rewarding to use in a wider range of scenarios.  We will continue to monitor the balance of all Toggled Abilities after launch.

• Duration Mods now have an effect on toggled Abilities.
  • For example: Mods that added 100% duration will make a 10 Energy drain become a 5 Energy drain.
• Drain-Per-Second and other adjustments has been made on the following Toggled Abilities:
  • Chroma’s Spectral Scream now drains 3 Energy.
  • Chroma’s Elemental Ward’s Electric elemental discharge effect is now affected by range Mods instead of strength Mods.
  • Chroma’s Elemental Ward Poison holster and reload speed are now affected by duration Mods instead of strength Mods.
  • Ember’s World on Fire now drains 3 Energy and has had its maximum duration removed.
  • Equinox’s Rest & Rage has had its base range doubled.
  • Hydroid can now recast Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm with no cooldown.
  • Nyx’s Chaos no longer has a cooldown, and enemies affected by Chaos cannot be stunned by additional casts.
  • The minimum energy cost of an Ability cannot go below 25% of the base cost.

 

General Warframe Changes:

 

• Mesa’s Peacemaker now roots Mesa in place while creating a focus ring on the HUD.
  • Pressing Fire will have Mesa automatically attack all enemies inside the ring, and each enemy slain will decrease the radius of the ring while increasing Mesa’s damage dealt.
  • While in Peacemaker players can look in any direction.
  • Range Mods will affect the size of Peacemaker’s ring.
• Valkyr has received the following changes to her Ability powers:
• Ripline now has increased animation speed and vertical boost.
• Ripline now has reduced energy cost and increased damage for each time cast.
• Ripline will now soft-lock onto enemies.
• Valkyr’s HUD will now display the window of opportunity to recast Ripline at lower cost .
• Hysteria can now be quickly toggled on/off.
• Hysteria now receives buffs from the player’s melee weapon Mods.
• Valkyr now passively has 50% knockdown recovery speed and no heavy landing.
• Overhealing from Equinox’s Mend will now restore shields.
• Switching between forms with Equinox has been reduced to a 1 second delay.
• Only two clones from Mirage’s Hall of mirrors now fire projectiles.  This change has been made in order to help improve performance issues.  Damage has been increased on the remaining clones to compensate.
• Mag's Pull now requires an open path to affect targets -- resources and enemies can no longer be pulled through walls or closed doors, but enemies can still be pulled out of cover and behind obstacles.
• Zephyr's Tailwind will no longer have a 'power in use' error between casts.
• Nyx's Psychic Bolts now have a chance to Radiation Proc enemies.

 

Big update... little different about the thread though.

[Phyrak]

Heya Arch!

Got a compilation of changes for atlas

Chuck it onto your mega thread :3

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/537698-atlas-feedback-changes-comprehensive/

What are your thoughts on them?

[Archwizard]

Big update... little different about the thread though.

 

Lots of the changes there didn't really affect statements in the OP. 

 

Heya Arch!

Got a compilation of changes for atlas

Chuck it onto your mega thread :3

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/537698-atlas-feedback-changes-comprehensive/

What are your thoughts on them?

 

My usual policy applies with Atlas: I put nothing in the OP until at least a week has passed.

 

From what I've been hearing, the big issue with Atlas is (as with Oberon) a lack of baseline scalability. Flat damage attacks, flat damage shield, poor AI minions, Petrify and his passive being the only real outliers (and given that almost all frames have some kind of CC, he's not earning any points for the former). Most of your changes do little to affect this, changing damage types but not how the damage scales, or adding rather unnecessary additions.

 

And your Rumblers augment is a wind attack.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Archwizard

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

As we all know, U17.5 allows Hysteria to remove 100% of enemy threat from any mission without Nullifiers, and 99.9% from any mission with them, while simultaneously letting you deal 70k damage melee hits several times per second, as well as being completely self-sustainable due to energy drops collected from dead enemies.

 

I don't think I'll play Valkyr again until some change is made, as playing a mission with Valkyr feels like a legitimized form of hacking. There's no possible enemy threat or risk of failure, which I find boring as hell and completely undermining to the purpose of playing a shooty game.

 

Your Hysteria suggestion seems infinitely better than the BS we have now, but since Hysteria is completely self-sustainable now, there would be no downside to being at 1 health. Allow me to propose a slightly altered change:

 

For Hysteria to be in any way reasonable, it has to have some sort of mechanical downside. What I would personally do is remove the invincibility from Hysteria and replace it with a super powerful version of Quick Thinking, with a greatly boosted conversion rate from Quick Thinking's 240%. This would mean that as soon as your health reached zero, you would start being penalized for taking damage by having Hysteria's uptime reduced. This would also create synergy with Warcry, because more armor means more damage you can take before you start losing energy. The life steal would remain, allowing Valkyr to get her health back up and prevent the energy drain by dealing more damage.

Edited October 4, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[taiiat]

i figure i might as well write things down on paper, so:

to address problems with Atlas' Golems - steal some AI Tricks from other games.

 

the Golems can do simple Threat Analysis checks, when there's a lot of Enemies around, raise their Arms to cover their face or pull a rock out of the ground to use as a Shield.

doing so would be opting out of a Ranged Attack for increased survivability when things are hot (i'm thinking 75% Ranged Damage Reduction when they do this. still vulnerable to Melee but resistant to anything Ranged).

would be unable to use it when they're attacking something ofcourse, but we want smart AI, not OP AI.

 

a limit to Threat Analysis Range, as well as must stop protecting to Attack.

these two facets make weaknesses in the AI, that the Enemy won't intentionally take advantage of sadly, but still creates a more interesting AI.

 

 

 

and a secondary Trick of gap closing - when Target isn't obstructed but is relatively far away, if the AI doesn't decide to select a closer Target, sprint towards the distant Target. (faster Running Animation, 50% stagger 50% Knockdown on Enemies hit while gap closing to Target. Target takes forced Impact Status).

40% global Damage Reduction while sprinting.

possibly allow Golems to use Ranged Attack even while Sprinting!

 

 

 

both of these would drastically increase the survivability of the Golems on average(4x Health when Protecting, 2.5x Health when sprinting), while still leaving them with weaknesses.

Edited October 4, 2015 by taiiat

[xLordKogax]

 

What Slash Dash should look like ^^^ xD 

Hysteria Now ^^^ xD

^^ What Bladestorm should look like ^^

Edited October 4, 2015 by xLordKogax