Pay 2 Advantage Wall Has Been Reached

[TioMegaManX]

I have been playing for a little more than one month, at first it was hard and I am thankful to all people who gave me a few good modules when I began as well as the ones who helped me get my favorite frame from the beginning, but even though I am patient and try to enjoy the game in every way possible the whole experience has finally gotten to an end.

 

I am not retiring, but there is no way DE can now make me feel really invested, I know my money won't be missed that much since they are getting more than enough from other players, but is time to give a general review, feedback and opinions from an average consumer perspective, why average? because I certainly dedicated time to the game but I am not hardcore enough like the founders or the people who will call me out for not "working hard" to get the items I want.

 

Gameplay

 

Parkour is OK, but most of it can be skipped with accidental but skillful ways like coptering, I will miss it when they decide to pull the plug on it, stamina doesn't prevent anyone from rushing, it just stops people from having some fun with run and gun, maneuvers, etc., these highly advanced warriors need to catch their breath once in a while?

 

Melee is useless, if anything I would like to have it on the obstacle course to make more challenging the way one can break a record and that's it, with no stagger on enemies whatsoever and little to no real damage or risk vs reward there is nothing to it, whatever Melee 2.0 may give us with those so-called new modules would not fix it because obviously the game is not an action game like DMC or Ninja Gaiden, the controls as we have them now work for a shooter, it would have been quite easy to just add melee as the AI uses it (just to brush the enemy off for example) something that even the first Halo game did very well.

 

Grinding is an interesting aspect here, if I could jump to a conclusion I would say that DE has gone out of their way for people to not be able to catch up easily or even power leveling which may seem good at first but having to re-level stuff all the time with no bonus other than using real money and not sleeping (unless you want the booster hours to go waste) is kind of frustrating at first and ends up just having people like me to just try to work around and spend some revives (not buying more of course) when it seems worth it.

 

Farming, like grinding is way worse, people would tell me that is necessary if DE wants to make money but I disagree but I don't know how this game needs Korean drop rates to be profitable when is been proven there are other ways to make people actually spend money on the game, besides, even the supporters will say it, everything is in the game right? people may decide to buy platinum to get some stuff faster, but people like me will just not even bother, at this point I have everything I need to run any mission or alert, help my clan and maybe experiment a little, if the highest tier weapons are being denied to me by the powers of the RNG then I will stick with the stuff that is available to me and people here can confirm that you don't need a Boltor Prime to be able to survive unless DE does what it should not.

 

Stealth is basically non-existent, there is no point in trying to stealth past Venus when a surprise attack is not a graranteed kill, you know, because it makes a lot of sense that someone who is stabbed through the chest from behind will get up and fight as if nothing happened, resetting alarms is a placebo, and infinitely respawning enemies are not even a good way to offer challenge, is just lazy.

 

Speaking of challenge the way enemies get pumped is not optimal, more HP, more Armor and homing attacks, omniscience, more damage, 1HKs, etc. nobody in their right mind bothers with certain "challenges" currently because is a waste by the time the enemies begin to spawn at insane levels.

 

Community

 

Is a mess thanks to the archaic chat system, recruiting and trading is a pain thanks to the inability to just double click on a name to be able to communicate faster, squads are made and destroyed the instant the mission ends on special missions so ultimately nobody can easily stick together for a better and more organized game experience, is a shame the only efficient way to do it is having a clan, which comes with its own problems.

 

There is also a divide that no amount of arc traps or laser doors will fix, rushing and not rushing, sometimes new players may be able to stay behind while the experienced ones rush through the mission just so they can get some experience from the enemies that aren't killed right away, people will keep rushing as long as there is nothing worth getting on lockers and containers to date.

 

Market

 

Trading is a joke, DE may thing that having everything up for trade with no limits would mean people won't spend money on the game, but I have been around enough time to see how the channel is full of people trying to sell the same stuff everyone else has, why? because drop tables have been nerfed, only a few free players and maybe only the Prime Access players have something worth selling, because the rest is almost impossible to get, and guess what? this doesn't motivate me to try Prime Access myself, it just makes me take more breaks between missions because I have nothing else to do.

 

Now, if anyone from DE or the staff reads this as well as other threads from people sharing my opinion, well, there are several outcomes I can expect the Bioware style, or even something a little more disturbing but let's just say that whatever they do won't convince me to get more platinum if things continue as they are, either I am forcibly silenced and thus I keep my money or they &!$$ everyone off and more money is not earned, because, you know, I could not possibly understand how hard is to make a game, right?

 

TL;DR New players like me are not enticed to give DE any money.

[izzatuw]

Wut?

[Kartumterek]

Sounds like you may need to try a new game. If you havent spent any money why are you complaining? you can get 95-99% of everything in the game and earn THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PLAT for zero real life money. Im just not seeing what you are griping about or the point of this post.

 

soo confuzzled

[--Q--JoeTheBanshee]

Melee will be fixed, farming is not an issue compared to other F2P games, Stealth 2.0 is coming, challenges are being addressed, chat and clan system rework is coming as well, if you don't rush you don't have to farm later on, trading is new and being tweaked.

[BrotherIcarus]

No one will forcibly silence you here and I agree with some of the things you said but there is one slight problem I would like to point out Warframe is in Beta or continuous development or what ever you want to call it, now I am not saying this is an excuse that what you have said id invalid basically everything you have said is valid as of this moment but hell even as early as next week your point about melee being useless (Which it currently is) will be mute because the melee system is getting a rework.

 

About the RNG and drop rate these are legitimate game mechanics and were I do believe the current system requires some changes (Token system maybe).

 

Chat will eventually get its turn in the spot light and get re done as will stealth, (Side note stealth can be done on every map in the system I have ran many stealth missions the problem is there is no incentive to do stealth, no reward for me spending close to half an hour going through a Grineer ship)

[izzatuw]

Sounds like you may need to try a new game. If you havent spent any money why are you complaining? you can get 95-99% of everything in the game and earn THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PLAT for zero real life money. Im just not seeing what you are griping about or the point of this post.

 

soo confuzzled

Hmm the only a few players part got things to sell got me confused. If ya want plats do Vault runs or if you're not good enough do nightmare runs. Get 5Plats per nightmare mod and 10-15 for vaults. I did this when I was at rank 4. I have gained 200+ plats from trading itself. There is no wall unless you're lazy person that doesn't want to farm. Than you'll assume there's a wall.

[Kartumterek]

This Tenno knows the deal

[TioMegaManX]

Hmm the only a few players part got things to sell got me confused. If ya want plats do Vault runs or if you're not good enough do nightmare runs. Get 5Plats per nightmare mod and 10-15 for vaults. I did this when I was at rank 4. I have gained 200+ plats from trading itself. There is no wall unless you're lazy person that doesn't want to farm. Than you'll assume there's a wall.

I have to say, I have enough platinum for the rest of the year thanks to a discount, I also have an arsenal good enough to carry me over basically everything, the RNG is a problem to an extent but no longer affects me because I choose to not deal with it, what I am trying to say is, only 2 months with only one major update between them from my perspective and I already reached the wall which I am not even in need to take down or climb over, right now no module or piece you have is worth anything because everyone has it and thus it effectively defies the purpose of having a diluted drop table, almost no one with a very rare part will sell it right now or buy it for the amount of plat anyone else would ask for.

[G33ke]

I'm not sure what you're talking about for the "new players not interested in paying money" thing. I started about a month ago and I've thrown $50 at the game.

 

That said, you have some valid complaints, but you need to keep in mind it's still a beta for a reason. I hate that argument, but the complaints about the melee system is going a little far considering melee 2.0 is going to be released within the week. It seems a bit nitpicky. I'm willing to support the game despite its bugs and problems because I want to see it become something, and I like what I currently see. I never went into it expecting a fully developed game with fully developed systems in place, nor did I expect big changes within the mere month I've been here.

 

All that said, advice is nice and all, but...I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to achieve by making this thread.

[Llyssa]

The actual TL;DR is "OP hasn't learned how to play the game or use any of its features after an entire month, and this makes him very unhappy."

 

I do question the "friends" who gave you mods but didn't teach you anything. There's something wrong with that, and they have probably severely hampered some of your learning experiences.

 

However, it still stands that a better NPE is needed to teach people these things so that they don't make these weird, senseless rants. =/

Edited April 3, 2014 by Llyssa

[Neogeo]

Despite what DE claim, the game stop being in Beta when they start selling plats. Stop using that as an excuse.

[HAYABU5A]

not everyone has the same tastes so its perfectly fine if someone doesnt like warframe right, we have to accept when people come from that point of view

 

the game is completely free (ok you do need to buy slots but thats it) and if u havent spent any money on it then there is nothing to complain about

 

find a another F2P game thats better - if u can 

[zebar1313]

Melee is useless, if anything I would like to have it on the obstacle course to make more challenging the way one can break a record and that's it, with no stagger on enemies whatsoever and little to no real damage or risk vs reward there is nothing to it,

I stopped reading here. No stagger? you've obviously never used a Jat Kittag... Knockdown and it deals impact procs which stagger. Use it with the Tethra and Cicero mods you can get one of the highest proc chances for melee weaps, I have literally gone almost 50 minutes on a survival just using my Jat and a valkyr? You just need to experiment and play with different things... 

Plat wise I have no need to spend Real life money? I mean seriously.. just do void or vault runs and you can sell almost any of those mods/parts for 5p plus and that means just 4 things and you can buy catalysts or character slots, or maybe even save up for.... this pretty lotus statue that is a limited time offer for your dojo

[REDACTED]

A well thought out and concise summary for newer players.

 

It's a shame you will be overrun by mewling sycophants because they seem to be the only ones allowed to express their opinions on the forums these days.

[Sadwyrm]

Despite what DE claim, the game stop being in Beta when they start selling plats. Stop using that as an excuse.

 

If my school weren't so uptight about throwing subject material at people, I would throw this general development pipeline at you.

[Boondorl]

Don't worry, OP. I know exactly what you're getting at, and I couldn't agree more.

 

I enjoy this game, I really do, but my job here isn't to suck DE's massive [personality]. It's to give them feedback. The grinding in this game is terrible, on levels of Planetside 2. It's not fun, nor is it interesting. At least you have actual gameplay in Planetside 2 to make up for it, though. DE has turned a great concept into nothing but a farming simulator. The mod system is far more toxic than any skill tree that may have existed prior to U7. At least you got a guaranteed benefit from leveling up your weapon back then. Right now, I got about 18 free spaces on my Dex Furis on my alt account because I literally have no other mods to put in it. Did I mention it's only level 14? Leveling things feels pointless, just adding to the already terrible grind.

 

Everyone I've actually talked to agrees the chat systems are awful.

 

With guns like Soma, Boltor Prime, Brakk, etc. melee will always be useless. Rule of Cool is playing a big part here. Unless all the melee weapons gets massive buffs, to Galatine levels, then nothing will change. Melee weapons will still be awful as they're heavily single target based, and this game loves to throw massive amounts of enemies at you with the f*ckiest scaling in existence.

 

Unless DE makes their AI not useless, stealth will never be a viable option. The AI in this game is simply unfair. If one enemy notices you even slightly, every single enemy in the same room, regardless of how large the room is, will notice you. I've had enemies look directly at me yet not notice me because I was more than 10m away. This game's AI is awful. Stealth is not an option if they intend to keep the same level of AI they currently have.

 

I don't think this game's going anywhere soon. The hype just doesn't pull me in. This game's going to go no where but downhill if DE doesn't think about doing some serious overhauls after Melee 2.0.

[Bronte]

If your melee weapons aren't doing stagger when you want them to then your either, not using them properly, not modding them correctly or your using a melee weapon that shouldn't be doing stagger in the first place.

 

I mean apart from the Reaper Prime handle war we had some time ago who expects someone to buy a dagger or sword walk up to an enemy with there large blade and think "Yep! i'm gonna bash his head in with the handle".

 

There are other valid points and i'll leave other people to defend or criticise, blah blah blah yada yada yada....

[Neogeo]

If my school weren't so uptight about throwing subject material at people, I would throw this general development pipeline at you.

Yea, go back to school, kid. When you done schooling and actually start working. Maybe you will have some sense of monetary. 

[Symbiont71]

 

Despite what DE claim, the game stop being in Beta when they start selling plats. Stop using that as an excuse.

 

Having people fund your game has nothing to do with Beta/ Official releases. Do you even know what open beta means? They have placeholders in the game, meaning mechanics and systems that are there until they can release the final form of that...thing..be it boss, melee, chat..whatever.

 

An official release means a COMPLETE game mechanics-wise. Warframe still has placeholders which makes it "incomplete".

 

Also "the game is in beta" is NOT an excuse, it is a fact that must be taken into account when reviewing a game, exactly because of the "unfinished" state of the game and its subjectivity to change.

[izzatuw]

Yea, go back to school, kid. When you done schooling and actually start working. Maybe you will have some sense of monetary.

I don't see the problem if a kid wants to play Warframe, unless he's being rude to other players and you aren't one to tell him to do anything.

Unless you were kidding

[shimbaby]

Warframe is a great game

[TioMegaManX]

I know I didn't sweeten my words, I like the game but am I a beta tester or not? (although beta testing strictly would mean we get access to everything without restrictions like RNG if we are supposed to really test the game, like, glitches, combinations, etc.)

[MagPrime]

Despite what DE claim, the game stop being in Beta when they start selling plats. Stop using that as an excuse.

Not part of the topic, but felt the need to respond to this.

 

I've seen this opinion expressed often on the forums, so I went online and asked The Almighty Google what "open beta" meant.

This is what the Apostle Wikiedia told me;

 

"Open and closed beta 

Developers release either a closed beta or an open beta; closed beta versions are released to a restricted group of individuals for a user test by invitation, while open beta testers are from a larger group, or anyone interested. The testers report any bugs that they find, and sometimes suggest additional features they think should be available in the final version. Examples of a major public beta test are:

 

Open betas serve the dual purpose of demonstrating a product to potential consumers, and testing among an extremely wide user base likely to bring to light obscure errors that a much smaller testing team might not find."

 

(Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle) 

 

And now on topic;

I haven't hit this pay 2 win/advantage wall I keep hearing about.  After a little over two months I've managed to earn every Warframe, weapon and mod I have.  The only time I have purchased platinum is when I got the Gift of the Lotus %50-%75 discounts and put that towards slots.

 

As for the rest of your complaints, many of those things are acknowledged and are being worked on, go check out the last 5 Devstreams or even read the transcribed summaries.  

 

EDIT: Why is my text black and how do I change it back?  -.-

Edited April 3, 2014 by Noamuth

[izzatuw]

I know I didn't sweeten my words, I like the game but am I a beta tester or not? (although beta testing strictly would mean we get access to everything without restrictions like RNG if we are supposed to really test the game, like, glitches, combinations, etc.)

Getting access to everything would mean:

1. Everyone would claim the games too easy which means no supporters.

2. People would quit much faster.

[Brahmastra]

Just wanted to add this:

If I had to start playing this game from level 0, as of today without any platinum, I'd probably quit within a week.

So yes I definitely paid for advantage.