The Trinity Conundrum

[Monolake]

So as it is, Trinity is frequently abused with her abilities Link and Blessing.

Problem 1: People max duration on Blessing, giving team 28 seconds of invulnerability. Properly built, a Trinity can roll Blessing nonstop through the mission.

Problem 2: Link and Blessing can be combined to hit multiple enemies with backlash damage from weapons such as the Ogris with no repercussions.

Solution 1: Blessing. Duration scaled with ability level to max at 15 seconds and no longer be affected by duration mods. Blessing also should no longer heal health or shields. Well of Life already does health, and the invulnerability period allows shields to recharge.

Solution 2: Link no longer redirects backlash damage from Tenno weapons.

How does that sound?

Link is fine, Blessing is the problem.

15 seconds still allows to spam it for perma invul.

[nekrojiji]

So as it is, Trinity is frequently abused with her abilities Link and Blessing.

Problem 1: People max duration on Blessing, giving team 28 seconds of invulnerability. Properly built, a Trinity can roll Blessing nonstop through the mission.

Problem 2: Link and Blessing can be combined to hit multiple enemies with backlash damage from weapons such as the Ogris with no repercussions.

Solution 1: Blessing. Duration scaled with ability level to max at 15 seconds and no longer be affected by duration mods. Blessing also should no longer heal health or shields. Well of Life already does health, and the invulnerability period allows shields to recharge.

Solution 2: Link no longer redirects backlash damage from Tenno weapons.

How does that sound?

Change the blessing duration to 3 seconds not affected by duration and cut the cast time mods and It's fine.

It should be an "in case S#&$" mechanism.

 

WoL and EV still need to be redesigned.

Edited April 7, 2014 by nekrojiji

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Coming from an avid trinity player, one that found those exploits soon enough before coming to the forums, in the ps4, i can say the only solution i can think of is:

 

Keep the ivulnerability time from being increased, leave it at 8 seconds (2/4/6/8).Duration now affects a health and shield regen that follows the expiration of the ivulnerability, at a faster rate than renewal, might i add, cause renewal is bad, it should revive allies to distinguish itself from much better skils like well of life and blessing or rejuvenate, lolz.

 

This way anyone abusing link will have 6 secs to exploit it and will need tons of energy to keep it up.

[Dewnin]

+1 GTG300.  I agree that Trinity needs a rework more than a simple fix.  I like the suggestion of % dmg reduction rather than full invulnerability ZayTM.  Being very tough is more fun that being invincible, you still might want to get out of the of three corrupted heavy gunners, even in blessing.  And it would help keep a team of frames with no Trinity more even with a Trinity team in survival.

 

My suggestions would be to turn blessing towards more of an "all around" buff to the party, heal+dmg reduction yes, but also improve attack speed, move speed, damage etc.  no problems with perma-blessing as long as it isn't "game over" for the enemy faction. 

 

in regards to both link and energy vampire, they also don't seem to be terribly broken to me.  Vampire is certainly a boss/heavy killer, but it does what it does fairly well, and returns energy, so it basically free CC. 

Link...Agreed with OP, prevent it from redirecting self-damage and I see no problem.

 

Well of Life.  I have two suggestions for WoL.

First, Well of Life targets Trinity herself rather than an enemy, making her incredibly durable but also unable to attack while letting out healing pulses.  it could be used to support a team thats taking too much dmg, and also as a panic-button if she's about to die, buying time for her team to come to the rescue.  ...  little bit like the puddle.

second version for well of life, would just be a temporary self-buff that gives you an infested healer-like healing pulse aura.  each pulse would restore you and nearby allies health on the go, so it wouldn't interrupt the flow of fast-paced missions.

 

I'd love to hear the opinions of more veteran Trinity players, I've had her for a couple of weeks and this is what I've thought of.

[(NSW)LilVanu]

You know a better solution to this that wouldn't really F* her up is just make the time to cast blessing even longer... (Even just a tiny bit longer.)

other then that. Why ruin the fun for everybody?

[IfritKajiTora]

I agree with you but not in 100%
I have Trinity that have power duration not at max power.
Link for 18 seconds and Blessing for 16 seconds (i don't know why there is minimum different)
Blessing for 16 seconds is just too powerfull I can spam it all the levels, on very high level enemeis I', starting to losing energy so I use energy vampire to have energy generator and still can spam Blessing.

My proposition to change her.
Blessing: Faster cast speed like Frost have his Ulti very fast. But immortalisty for warframes only for 6 seconds and cannot be affected by power duration. It will be a skill to regen shield and health, Immortality 6 seconds is just a blockade to be instant dying. Examples after blessing someone is starting to dying because of heavy dmg, there will be delay by 6seconds. Faster Cast speed, you will be abble to react very fast at team health.

Link: Is Overpowered on PVP if you seriously play on PVP. This skill should be changed to different skill. to have a similar skill to LINK but to LINK with your team ,,Tenno Connection''.  All shield beetwen team is divided Example: Rhino 900shield + Vauban 500shield + trinity 600shield + Frost 900shield = 2900 shield/4 = 725 shield to all team. Reduction of 50% damage  to all team and damage is divided beetwen them.

Energy Vampire is OverPowered, because you can make a generator of energy to all the team and spam skills. Better is to Trinity have a power to convert her energy for team. Trinity use ,,Energy Converter'' cost of 50 energy to give your team mates 50 energy to all of them. You have less energy to use Blessing and Tenno Connection/link but your team can use their skills

Well Of life this is the worst skill - you have blessing to what is a point of using it? I use it only to combo Well of Life+Energy Vampire to my team not kill my energy generator fast. This skill should be changed to different skill too. I have no idea. I was thinked about stealing skills, like you see a Greenier that is using Snow Globe and you can just steal that skill but on PVP it will be OP too, someone is using a skill that cost 75 energy and we steal him that skill he wasted 75 energy and we used that same skill for only 25 energy :/. Thinked about Neutralization to be immune and neutralize all negative effects, but they happen too rarely :/.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

I agree with you but not in 100%

I have Trinity that have power duration not at max power.

Link for 18 seconds and Blessing for 16 seconds (i don't know why there is minimum different)

Blessing for 16 seconds is just too powerfull I can spam it all the levels, on very high level enemeis I', starting to losing energy so I use energy vampire to have energy generator and still can spam Blessing.

My proposition to change her.

Blessing: Faster cast speed like Frost have his Ulti very fast. But immortalisty for warframes only for 6 seconds and cannot be affected by power duration. It will be a skill to regen shield and health, Immortality 6 seconds is just a blockade to be instant dying. Examples after blessing someone is starting to dying because of heavy dmg, there will be delay by 6seconds. Faster Cast speed, you will be abble to react very fast at team health.

Link: Is Overpowered on PVP if you seriously play on PVP. This skill should be changed to different skill. to have a similar skill to LINK but to LINK with your team ,,Tenno Connection''.  All shield beetwen team is divided Example: Rhino 900shield + Vauban 500shield + trinity 600shield + Frost 900shield = 2900 shield/4 = 725 shield to all team. Reduction of 50% damage  to all team and damage is divided beetwen them.

Energy Vampire is OverPowered, because you can make a generator of energy to all the team and spam skills. Better is to Trinity have a power to convert her energy for team. Trinity use ,,Energy Converter'' cost of 50 energy to give your team mates 50 energy to all of them. You have less energy to use Blessing and Tenno Connection/link but your team can use their skills

Well Of life this is the worst skill - you have blessing to what is a point of using it? I use it only to combo Well of Life+Energy Vampire to my team not kill my energy generator fast. This skill should be changed to different skill too. I have no idea. I was thinked about stealing skills, like you see a Greenier that is using Snow Globe and you can just steal that skill but on PVP it will be OP too, someone is using a skill that cost 75 energy and we steal him that skill he wasted 75 energy and we used that same skill for only 25 energy :/. Thinked about Neutralization to be immune and neutralize all negative effects, but they happen too rarely :/.

 

Overpowered. This word... I do not think it means what your think it means.

Firstly, Link dividing shields sounds incredibly bad... Rhino can take a lot more hits than Volt or Zephyr, so shunting their shields versus Rhino's would be a lot more devastating. Instead I could see a team buff power that grows in strength the more people there are on the team? E.g. Playing solo it gives a 25% [insert defensive buff here, say armour and/or shield and/or health] bonus, 2 players is a 37.5% buff, 3 players is a 50% buff, and 4 is a 75% buff (note that 3-4 player increase is greater than the 2-3 increase? A full team is the strongest team). This would give Trinity a unique power mechanic that no one else has, but also makes her an essential piece to high level missions.

Secondly, I like the idea I heard one that would make Blessing another buff power... Maybe like scalable energy+health regen (Energy Siphon+Rejuvination) with a 4 second invulnerability?

Hell, you could roll that Link idea I just had into Blessing, but then ignore the scaling based on how many players: A fixed 4 seconds of invulnerability, energy+health regen, and defensive (armour+shield+health) buff? If you set it like one of the iterations of Snow Globe, where the duration of the power itself *is* affected by duration mods, but the invulnerability is not, that would be an awesome Blessing that would still scale well into end game.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Angelus_de_Mortiel

[RealPandemonium]

It should just make you invincible for like 5 seconds.  This way if you max duration you can still have godmode (it could conceivably run out but could be sustained almost indefinitely with enough energy drops) while not changing much for those of us who don't use duration mods and rely on Blessing solely as a clutch heal.  

Edited April 12, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[GTG3000]

+1 GTG300.  I agree that Trinity needs a rework more than a simple fix.  I like the suggestion of % dmg reduction rather than full invulnerability ZayTM.  Being very tough is more fun that being invincible, you still might want to get out of the of three corrupted heavy gunners, even in blessing.  And it would help keep a team of frames with no Trinity more even with a Trinity team in survival.

 

My suggestions would be to turn blessing towards more of an "all around" buff to the party, heal+dmg reduction yes, but also improve attack speed, move speed, damage etc.  no problems with perma-blessing as long as it isn't "game over" for the enemy faction. 

 

in regards to both link and energy vampire, they also don't seem to be terribly broken to me.  Vampire is certainly a boss/heavy killer, but it does what it does fairly well, and returns energy, so it basically free CC. 

Link...Agreed with OP, prevent it from redirecting self-damage and I see no problem.

 

Well of Life.  I have two suggestions for WoL.

First, Well of Life targets Trinity herself rather than an enemy, making her incredibly durable but also unable to attack while letting out healing pulses.  it could be used to support a team thats taking too much dmg, and also as a panic-button if she's about to die, buying time for her team to come to the rescue.  ...  little bit like the puddle.

second version for well of life, would just be a temporary self-buff that gives you an infested healer-like healing pulse aura.  each pulse would restore you and nearby allies health on the go, so it wouldn't interrupt the flow of fast-paced missions.

 

I'd love to hear the opinions of more veteran Trinity players, I've had her for a couple of weeks and this is what I've thought of.

 

Blessing could have it's invulnerability replaced with constant shield/health regen at a somewhat high rate. If rate is high enough, she will still be a desired healer, but without removing challenge. Bonus points for making it a cast ranged AoE, rising people in range while giving them the full regen, while only giving quarter or half of the regen to people out of the range.

 

Alternatively, it could have all the duration you want, but with cooldown for the same duration, so that you'd need at least three trinity frames to be invulnerable all the time (which is kind of fine, idk). Or combine it with my above suggestion.

 

Link used to be fine with invulnerability+inability to prevent selfdamage, but I guess without stripping Trin of damage potential it wouldn't be really fair to give her that survivability back.

 

I like the suggestion about making WoL act like the healer ancients' power.

[Dewnin]

a pure healing Blessing seems like a balanced ability, but regen over time is basically what Oberons heal does?  obviously in a better way, and with shield regen along with it.  That's my only real concern with a constant-restore buff, besides Oberon existing it seems like it'd be a good scalable version of Blessings invulnerablity.  Taking more damage-per-second then you are getting in regen, would still kill you.  power vs duration builds would be a legitimate choice.

 

the thought on the Link is sort of interesting (warning: unnecesarily complex mechanic ahead).  If, instead of just pooling everyones shields, Link effected the whole party with a buff that absorbed, say, 75% of all damage dealt to everyone, and stored it.  Later it would gradually redistribute the damage to everyone evenly.  Coming short of lethal damage(it won't kill you, only drop you're health to 5).

although with the way shield recovery works, taking the damage slowly over a period of time would probably making it worse :/  well, it's just a thought.  it might be nice to synergize with the regen-over-time blessing though.

[LordMelvin]

How about this? It requires a total rework but I think Trinity is due for one anyway.

 

Well of Life is centered on Trinity as a point-blank AoE, but functions as EV does now. The area is displayed for all allies and scales with strength, range and duration. 

 

EV, meanwhile, is a single cast energy sap, again centered on Trinity that steals energy from enemies and gives to allies over time, similar to Oberon's Renewal. Rather than projectile-based the energy return is instant.

 

Link's damage reflection is shared among nearby allies. Healing effects to one Tenno are spread among allies linked to Trinity at reduced values. 

 

Blessing provides teamwide DR similar to Overheat.

 

 

Now you've got a frame that doesn't need perfect positioning to properly work, doesn't have one, arguably two, usable abilities, while scaling into the levels where dedicated supports like Trinity thrive. I built a Trinity but I couldn't bear to play her when I realized all I was doing was leveling her for a Blessing build. I'm one of those weirdos who believes that a frame should make use of all of their powers, no matter how weak or awful they may be. Trinity is no exception.

 

Regardless of what route DE takes, Blessing's 30 second invuln + full heal is getting hit in the face with the nerf bat, as we saw with Iron Skin and Snow Globe. The age of true invulnerability is over Tenno. 

[Ttariel]

A nerf should be done yes, but nothing that breaks her out of the viable station.

A hard cap on time sounds good, or Blessing has limited range.

 

I dont see a big problem with Link as its only amazing with Blessing running.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Ttariel

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

It should just make you invincible for like 5 seconds.  This way if you max duration you can still have godmode (it could conceivably run out but could be sustained almost indefinitely with enough energy drops) while not changing much for those of us who don't use duration mods and rely on Blessing solely as a clutch heal.  

 

The problem is that most people using Trinity in late-game missions do nothing but spam 30-second Blessing, which encourages people to not play tactically. We are trying to come up with a solution that doesn't involve Trinity becoming completely useless by just nerfing Blessing, but does remove the "Godmode" factor of spamming 30-second Blessings.

 

 

Blessing could have it's invulnerability replaced with constant shield/health regen at a somewhat high rate. If rate is high enough, she will still be a desired healer, but without removing challenge. Bonus points for making it a cast ranged AoE, rising people in range while giving them the full regen, while only giving quarter or half of the regen to people out of the range.

 

Alternatively, it could have all the duration you want, but with cooldown for the same duration, so that you'd need at least three trinity frames to be invulnerable all the time (which is kind of fine, idk). Or combine it with my above suggestion.

 

Link used to be fine with invulnerability+inability to prevent selfdamage, but I guess without stripping Trin of damage potential it wouldn't be really fair to give her that survivability back.

 

I like the suggestion about making WoL act like the healer ancients' power.

 

I think a health AND shield regen over time for a duration that is affected by mods, plus a fixed invulnerability. I think it would also be interesting to have Blessing also buff max health/shields/armour in the duration that is not fixed. Make Blessing both a Godsend when used at the right time and scalable into endgame, but don't make it a spammable Godmode. Godsend, not Godmode! :-D

 

a pure healing Blessing seems like a balanced ability, but regen over time is basically what Oberons heal does?  obviously in a better way, and with shield regen along with it.  That's my only real concern with a constant-restore buff, besides Oberon existing it seems like it'd be a good scalable version of Blessings invulnerablity.  Taking more damage-per-second then you are getting in regen, would still kill you.  power vs duration builds would be a legitimate choice.

 

the thought on the Link is sort of interesting (warning: unnecesarily complex mechanic ahead).  If, instead of just pooling everyones shields, Link effected the whole party with a buff that absorbed, say, 75% of all damage dealt to everyone, and stored it.  Later it would gradually redistribute the damage to everyone evenly.  Coming short of lethal damage(it won't kill you, only drop you're health to 5).

although with the way shield recovery works, taking the damage slowly over a period of time would probably making it worse :/  well, it's just a thought.  it might be nice to synergize with the regen-over-time blessing though.

 

Oberon has a projectile power that heals only health over time. Blessing ideally could be a shield+health heal over time, plus a health/shield/armour buff, plus a fixed short invulnerability. The reason for Blessing doing what Oberon can do, plus tons more, is because Oberon should be more of a dual-purpose Warframe, mixing both offensive and defensive abilities (think a traditional Paladin). Trinity should be more like a traditional pure healer, with little to no offensive abilities, but rather just heals and buffs.

I should note that why I say that the invulnerability should stay (albeit a fixed, short duration) next to a heal-over-time effect of health+shields it to allow teammates to have a precious few seconds to heal and recharge shields while under heavy fire, ideally buying them time to get to cover. The health/shield/armour buff then would allow them to regroup and tactically counter-attack against a much stronger force. Trinity should be able to turn the tide of a firefight in this manner, as opposed to letting people just run around stupidly because they are invincible (like how fights with Trinity works currently).

I love Trinity to death, but I absolutely hate the way other people play when I am in a match using her. They seem to think that there are suddenly now no repercussions for rushing into a fight in over your head, thus tactics go out the window... Trinity will save you! *continues ranting to self*

[RealPandemonium]

The problem is that most people using Trinity in late-game missions do nothing but spam 30-second Blessing, which encourages people to not play tactically. We are trying to come up with a solution that doesn't involve Trinity becoming completely useless by just nerfing Blessing, but does remove the "Godmode" factor of spamming 30-second Blessings.

I'm with you on that but it seems people just aren't having it.  I'd rather we have a non-sustainable (but still stupid) godmode than the sustainable infinite stupid godmode we have now.  

[Roost_rd]

Even with 15 sec max invincibility i could , if done right with energy Vampire , spam that ability . As it is now , i hate playing trinity , AS i am constantly having to get energy . If it gets nerfed , no one would play that frame .

Efficiency. I play Trin a lot, but I don't build God mode. I build efficiency so I can do a lot of butt saving without even having too much energy. This is great for when I push out of getting mowed down by bombards and gunners, and friends die to rev me. I just pop my dirt cheap blessing and link, revive my friends, get outta there or tear butts. Thats how I roll. I find it works, total duration for 100 energy still seems bothersome to me.

[Zkorp]

What's annoy me the most is that there's clearly 2 differents games : one with her and the other without...

 

I said that after having played a lot without trinity, now I try with her... I vastly prefer without her, without blessing you care how you play, you have to dodge and roll (after a while of course). With blessing it's... Boring ?

 

Blessing is not a garanted success because of course there's still some form of hazard, but it's a garanted boredom untill this "hazard" happens... If ever... It make me even ask myself if I really want to continue to play this game with such a cheat code allowed as every "success" in this game is linked to have perma blessing, or not...