Volt_Cruelerz Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 It's not like you pick up a Trinity at the foundry and suddenly the game is easymode. I think we all know better than that (or should). A perma-blessing Trinity isn't something easily created. A LOT of time and material go into one. They're also specifically geared to extreme gameplay--namely 100 round defenses and 1hour+ survivals. If you're not doing these, you need to sit down and shut up. Quit worrying about something that doesn't concern you. I don't normally break Trin out for regular mission on the map. She's for those nasty instances mentioned above, usually with the clan. If she is in garden variety of missions, it's usually to level something up--be grateful she's there to make things easier, especially on interceptions. See the cat pic above. Which is why I'm just saying to nerf her top end so she doesn't get like that and giver her some love on her 1 and 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Ohhh man people found out how to do damage with a healing frame that actually heals you and keeps you from dying better nerf her so she's the usual useless no damage hide in a corner with a box of band aids medic class. She's fine people need to lighten up about a video game and stop taking the space ninja thing so literally we use rocket launchers, shotguns and what looks to be an infested crotch part as a lightning gun.Not everything has to be textbook ninja in this game not to mention the futuristic details of it kind of burn the book on ninjas.People forma,grind,and farm for specific things to get their trinity like that they earned it and I rather have a trinity actually helping out than have another healer to cover because she got nerfed into the ground because people got upset when they got out damaged by a healer when they're rhino. The fact that a healer is finally useful as hell in a game is one of my favorite things about warframe.People REALLY need to get over it and play with clanmates if it bugs them to the point that they actually suggest nerfing her into the ground, it sounds less like feedback and more about revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloan441 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 They'd have to completely revamped. The way WoL and EV are now they're simply too clumsy and too little return to bother with. The game is paced far too fast for what they are at present. I know Scott has said he's not entirely happy with invulnerability as it is presently. The problem is what are you going to replace it with to keep Trinity as the premier support frame? You see how well Oberon has been received. We don't need another boat anchor like that. The only thing you could conceivably do is revamp 1,2, and 4 as buff powers. Then strength, duration, and efficiency (I don't even want to think about range) would benefit all of them equally and their use would be situational. Buff health regen, buff energy regen, and buff mitigation or better yet avoidance (something like turbulence for the team). This would allow Trin to retain the support 'frame crown and keep her viable. Of course, there'd still be the issue of Valkyr... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 They'd have to completely revamped. The way WoL and EV are now they're simply too clumsy and too little return to bother with. The game is paced far too fast for what they are at present. I know Scott has said he's not entirely happy with invulnerability as it is presently. The problem is what are you going to replace it with to keep Trinity as the premier support frame? You see how well Oberon has been received. We don't need another boat anchor like that. The only thing you could conceivably do is revamp 1,2, and 4 as buff powers. Then strength, duration, and efficiency (I don't even want to think about range) would benefit all of them equally and their use would be situational. Buff health regen, buff energy regen, and buff mitigation or better yet avoidance (something like turbulence for the team). This would allow Trin to retain the support 'frame crown and keep her viable. Of course, there'd still be the issue of Valkyr... To be perfectly honest, I'd vote outright replacing her 1 with some sort of assorted support ability. Maybe targeted insta-rez or something. Her 2 just needs to not completely defy the meta (why not just make it pulse out from her?) and it should be fine. I just think Blessing needs its duration toned down to be shorter and have its cast time more or less instant so you can use it for clutch saves. I don't play Valkyr for any other purpose than to play Spiderman. Just not my style so I'm not overly acquainted with her playstyle. By all reports though, she definitely needs help/fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolake Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) They'd have to completely revamped. The way WoL and EV are now they're simply too clumsy and too little return to bother with. The game is paced far too fast for what they are at present. I know Scott has said he's not entirely happy with invulnerability as it is presently. The problem is what are you going to replace it with to keep Trinity as the premier support frame? You see how well Oberon has been received. We don't need another boat anchor like that. The only thing you could conceivably do is revamp 1,2, and 4 as buff powers. Then strength, duration, and efficiency (I don't even want to think about range) would benefit all of them equally and their use would be situational. Buff health regen, buff energy regen, and buff mitigation or better yet avoidance (something like turbulence for the team). This would allow Trin to retain the support 'frame crown and keep her viable. Of course, there'd still be the issue of Valkyr... Hard-limit invul to short period like 5 sec, then make a channelled heal. Oberon is not only too weak but completely redundant while perma god mode is present. Same thing with Frost outside of defence - who needs Snowglobe when you have global god mode. Valkyr invul comes bundled with crappy animation limited damage melee-only drawback. Edited April 7, 2014 by Monolake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)atpbx Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Step 1. Press Esc Step 2. Click "Abort Mission" Step 3. Enjoy your Trinity-free mission So much this. In the incredibly boring invasions you pray for other people loaded out like this to blast through them as quickly as possible, so if you don't want to play with certain types of character, or a certain player, just leave the mission. It's that easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oriviagene Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Nerf? Nope... The fact that she's useful for keeping us alive in high lvl mission is important... If u don't like that blessing+link combo just make it like "if trinity got no dmg then no dmg is reflected by link... So eventho blessing is applied,no dmg is transferred through link... Problem solved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oriviagene Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Nerf? Nope... The fact that she's useful for keeping us alive in high lvl mission is important... If u don't like that blessing+link combo just make it like "if trinity got no dmg then no dmg is reflected by link... So eventho blessing is applied,no dmg is transferred through link... Problem solved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shibboleet Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) If DE ever considered nerfing Trinity My best guess would be adding a max range It would encourage teamwork and various Trinity builds for range/duration balance But I like Trinity as it is Hope it's not nerfed Wouldn't fix what the OP is complaining about, but would be a good change. It's also a problem that branches to many alt spamming frames like Saryn, Oberon, Rhino and Nova. Trinity's invulnerability is a powerful thing, make no mistake, but if we are going to call out this issue of "It takes the fun away", as OP is suggesting, I think we need to stop pointing at one frame as a problem and look at ultimates as a whole. +1 Why do people ask for nerfs... It's a PvE game not a PvP... Balancing is good for a pvp game and is also good in a pve game. Hypothetical Question: What if there was an ulti that one shot the entire map, gave invulnerability to the team, and gave everyone 5k credits on use? Not saying it would logically happen, but where is the line drawn? It's all perspective. I see so many nerf threads these days. Before we focus on making things that are overly useful less useful, can we focus on making things that suck more useful? I'm talking about buffs. There are a few frames (not going to say any names, less angry replies that way) that just aren't very useful. Can we focus on them BEFORE we nerf the frames that people actually use? There are many threads that are asking for buffs on abilities. Both need to exist as a form of feedback, and hopefully there is a patch of balancing in the future. > cries that Trinity Link + Bless kill all the "fun" for him in Survival mission > probably have no idea that Trinity by herself is the only way to run a successful long Survival (let's say 1h+ Nuovo) > probably have no idea [2] that in terms of duration/energy balance, casting Link + Bless just on cooldown is still a lot of energy (even w/ Fleet. Expertise) Tell me now OP do you really think i rely on something called "fun", when i wanna farm cores or test my weapon on a long Survival run? Or i just wanna stay alive w/o failing the mission when getting roflspammed by Napalms[100] & Bombards[100]. Do you really think i care what method of killing i use in this situation? Do you really think about my and my party killcounter in this moment? Energy cost isn't that great when you have enough duration. Even if the Trinity does run out of energy (cause energy orbs sometimes don't spawn), energy plates give more than enough energy. Link + Bless is very powerful and doesn't even make sense in the first place. Why does Trinity reflect back damage that she doesn't take? 1h+ Nuovo is easily done with 2 Lokis, though it does take 2 Trinities to do a 7 hour survival..so you have a point there. (Which the game isn't balanced around anyway...or so we think) I think is funny how a "Healer Frame" needs to be nerfed. If you know HOW to play a frame, that frame is infinitely more powerful than the same frame played by someone that only knows how to "Run and Gun". Seriously, GROW A PAIR and learn how to play your frame. OH, and please stop *@##$ing about people that have spent the time to learn how to play the game and play their frame. You Wuss. Trinity is considered the only God tier frame by the clan Tenn Os. When we made comps the first frame always started with: Trinity [frame] [frame] [frame] Survival? Trinity [frame] [frame] Nekros Defense? Trinity [frame] [frame] Frost Wow, corrupted mods, tons of forma, and a potato have made something powerful! Is this new? Not really. The guy simply found the best build for his Trin + Castanas and obviously wanted to use it to maximum effect. I don't see any reason to nerf her just because a player invested a lot of effort into making her as strong as possible. Duration trinity doesn't actually need a forma to work. Xeqtr was using no helm + no forma in his build in the 1. That's what you get for playing online with strangers. 2. There are other 'frames that have things which can be abused. A. Valkyr equiped with rage can keep going through hysteria and never die (as long as you kill) B. Rhino can have nearly infinite iron skin with energy siphon C. Nova can constantly clear rooms with m prime, quite easily (not quite sure on this as I haven't used her in a while) D. There are probably more I don't know about 3. Trinity already got a rework, so I doubt they will go back and do it all over again. One wrong doesn't make a right...in this case many wrongs don't make a wrong a right. Though about iron skin...no. Trinity is fine as is. Why would you follow the person around the whole time if it bothered you so much? Maby you didn't know this but there is an option where you can exit a mission if you want. Why not exit the mission and just not play with that person again? Then again maby your just mad because you werent smart enough to figure out how to get kills with a trinity in the party. At any rate you really need to stop crying about it. The way survival (if he was doing survival) works, is that spawns are based on camera view. The more spread out the team is, the less spawns you get. Running away from teammates is the last thing you want to do in survival. It's not like you pick up a Trinity at the foundry and suddenly the game is easymode. I think we all know better than that (or should). A perma-blessing Trinity isn't something easily created. A LOT of time and material go into one. They're also specifically geared to extreme gameplay--namely 100 round defenses and 1hour+ survivals. If you're not doing these, you need to sit down and shut up. Quit worrying about something that doesn't concern you. I don't normally break Trin out for regular mission on the map. She's for those nasty instances mentioned above, usually with the clan. If she is in garden variety of missions, it's usually to level something up--be grateful she's there to make things easier, especially on interceptions. See the cat pic above. A new person could in theory buy a forma, buy Trinity, get rank 3 (easy) and buy max narrowminded and then play a duration Trinity. 1000 plat comes with the cheapest prime access deal, which would cover most if not all of that expense. Link to build Edited April 7, 2014 by Shibboleet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5stareraser Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 You didn't play for months and first thing you just came out is asking for Nerf !!! Such a lame person . And the worst thing is you're not the only one . Sad . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCOAS Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Have you ever seen Nyx? Keep spamming your 3 and enjoy watching your enemies kill themselves. See a heavy gunner? No problem, press your 1 while he whipes out the entire tileset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leuca Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 A solo Trinity's damage will fall off against high level opponents. 20 minutes into whatever mission you were in was clearly not within that range.Rather than removing one of the more innovating frame strategies from the game entirely, it is possible to instead tone it down. You come across as bitter and over-competitive in a PvE game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fubukin Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 this all wouldnt happen with a real game lobby, where you see what frame and loadout the other player have before joining. dont like trin? dont join a trin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temporary Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) To be fair, she does remove all sense of difficulty from the game... For the record, I think she just needs a rework as her 1 is redundant, her 2 is anti-meta, and her 4 removes difficulty. She doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground. But the invincibility on Blessing needs to go down while her 1 and 2 get love. Most people actually enjoy participating in the team... It's generally more fun if you actually get to do something and if there's some semblance of difficulty. Being invincible constantly has a tendency to make the game get boring fast. Cheat codes are fun for a while, but they burn you out quickly. She only removes all sense of difficulty from the game if the person playing her knows how to play and has the correct build to back it up which in my opinion isn't very often considering how often i slum it and do pubs :P I do however completely agree that her 1st & 2nd abilities need a rework (not a nerf) and her 3rd ability needs to only work for incoming enemy damage, not self inflicted damage or damage taken whilst invincible but again as I said its not a game breaking issue so it'll get fixed soon™ As plenty of people have said if you like playing with a team go and play with mates whether they be from your clan or irl but expecting everyone to play as a team is naive. We're not advocating that being power levelled and having to do very little is fun; but it can be avoided if you so choose by either playing with a full party of people you know or by setting your game to private. Edited April 7, 2014 by Temporary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shareesh Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Whenever I play online with people in survival missions or high level defenses, I think it's crucial to have a trinity if you're aiming for high results. You have the following, let's say, objectives in this case: In survivals: 1) Stay alive 2) Find enemies to kill for oxygen packs 3) Keep an eye on your life support and run to the nearest L.S capsule. In this case, Trinity removes the need to run around for fallen comrades after a level (or if they are poorly geared / ranked), thus making the other objectives more attainable. In Defenses: 1) Stay alive 2) Keep enemies from swarming a completely stable point, often disregarding you or your teammates. In this scenario Trinity allows you to actually play the map like it's meant to be played since in most cases the enemies swarm the cores / relics. Trinity gives players the ability to ignore the threat of dying in order to keep the objective from being overrun. While this may feel like "Taking the fun away", remember how many times you've had to run after someone bleeding out and left the core defenseless. I don't think that Trinity is responsible for any lack of 'fun' in missions like these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DanteVincent Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Maybe leaving the blessing ivulnerability non increaseable, just 5 secs and health regen for the rest of its duration would be good, but please, a decent rate on it, not like renewal's crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiros Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 to you guys who wants to nerf trinity, can you pls go play survival for 2 hours and tell me how it went whit trinity if its still walk in the park. and i dont mean apollo in mercury. those who maby done it can answer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shibboleet Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) to you guys who wants to nerf trinity, can you pls go play survival for 2 hours and tell me how it went whit trinity if its still walk in the park. and i dont mean apollo in mercury. those who maby done it can answer ? Care to read my post in this topic? To make it simple: Edited April 7, 2014 by Shibboleet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiros Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Care to read my post in this topic? To make it simple: u are right sir ! but this guy starts aggressive topic name "nerf into the ground" = nerf so it is useless frame like other frames, at the end how fun is that all have same frames...every pug i go to is rhino,rhino,rhino..... maby we should nerf rhino to casue its to popular...this is going to world of warcraft direction. thats wrong, but i agree whit you that u should bring the player not the frame. :) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) She only removes all sense of difficulty from the game if the person playing her knows how to play and has the correct build to back it up which in my opinion isn't very often considering how often i slum it and do pubs :P I do however completely agree that her 1st & 2nd abilities need a rework (not a nerf) and her 3rd ability needs to only work for incoming enemy damage, not self inflicted damage or damage taken whilst invincible but again as I said its not a game breaking issue so it'll get fixed soon™ As plenty of people have said if you like playing with a team go and play with mates whether they be from your clan or irl but expecting everyone to play as a team is naive. We're not advocating that being power levelled and having to do very little is fun; but it can be avoided if you so choose by either playing with a full party of people you know or by setting your game to private. Unfortunately, all people I know that have tried the game quit and my clan isn't exactly close-knit. You can't expect everyone to be able to regulate who they play with unfortunately. As far as rarity goes, I'm Mastery 14. I think about half the Trinities I come across are capable of infinite invincibility at that level. Edited April 7, 2014 by Volt_Cruelerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekcbaba Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 This thread should be a psychology case study for personality types or something. From my perspective this issue makes me not even want to play a game that i was thoroughly enjoying over the weekend because it appears at max level the most interesting content the game has to provide is trying not to let your attention span lapse enough during a several hour fragfest or youll forget to hit your group wide mario-star that completely trivializes the otherwise great combat and gameplay the developers created. On the other side you have people who are so reward oriented that this perma-invulnerability is perfectly enjoyable and fun to them because it helps you progress frames and get rewards much easier and faster. Not trying to be derogatory to either perspective, but stuff like this really does kill the game for "challenge" oriented people. And playing by yourself isnt a very fullfilling answer for what is supposed to be a multiplayer game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyuTheTrinity Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) This thread should be a psychology case study for personality types or something. From my perspective this issue makes me not even want to play a game that i was thoroughly enjoying over the weekend because it appears at max level the most interesting content the game has to provide is trying not to let your attention span lapse enough during a several hour fragfest or youll forget to hit your group wide mario-star that completely trivializes the otherwise great combat and gameplay the developers created. On the other side you have people who are so reward oriented that this perma-invulnerability is perfectly enjoyable and fun to them because it helps you progress frames and get rewards much easier and faster. Not trying to be derogatory to either perspective, but stuff like this really does kill the game for "challenge" oriented people. And playing by yourself isnt a very fullfilling answer for what is supposed to be a multiplayer game. the devs did not plan any content past level 35 and 20 minutes in so anything past thos is unintentional content only there for people who want harder stuff this stuff is unbalanced and so strong anything but trinity will die instantly from slike 1 stray bullet anything below level 35 you dont need a trinity rhino iron skin is more then enough to stay invincable and safe trivializing content even without rhinio prime everyone in the world is using the content they plan for is super easy and all these arguments about trinity started because the op was angry that she can kill 5 things at a time with link by blowing herself up when most warframes just press 4 for less energy and blow everything up faster you wana talk about trivializing content Nova can kill anything neer instantly within DE's planed content but trinity with 5-6 forma and a 4-5 forma castanas isnt allowed to blow S#&$ up thats pretty unreasonable Edited April 7, 2014 by MoyuTheMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shibboleet Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) u are right sir ! but this guy starts aggressive topic name "nerf into the ground" = nerf so it is useless frame like other frames, at the end how fun is that all have same frames...every pug i go to is rhino,rhino,rhino..... maby we should nerf rhino to casue its to popular...this is going to world of warcraft direction. thats wrong, but i agree whit you that u should bring the player not the frame. :) . Yea, the author did have a terrible topic title and I do not agree with 'nerfing to the ground'. My first post in here was attempting to address misconceptions. Edited April 7, 2014 by Shibboleet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekcbaba Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 the devs did not plan any content past level 35 and 20 minutes in so anything past thos is unintentional content only there for people who want harder stuff this stuff is unbalanced and so strong anything but trinity will die instantly from slike 1 stray bullet anything below level 35 you dont need a trinity rhino iron skin is more then enough to stay invincable and safe trivializing content even without rhinio prime everyone in the world is using the content they plan for is super easy and all these arguments about trinity started because the op was angry that she can kill 5 things at a time with link by blowing herself up when most warframes just press 4 for less energy and blow everything up faster you wana talk about trivializing content Nova can kill anything neer instantly within DE's planed content but trinity with 5-6 forma and a 4-5 forma castanas isnt allowed to blow S#&$ up thats pretty unreasonable I am not experienced / high level enough to know what all content is like at high levels. I have just been playing a mag duo with family, currently on earth missions with starter weapon and such and am finding the current content reasonably challenging and therefore enjoyable. It may be true that at max level the content is a complete snorefest for all frames, i dunno if that is the developers intent but seems like a waste of an enjoyable combat model by letting vertical progression get out of hand. I mean... i watched the 7 hour survival run youtube video ... all they do is sit there and hit the button ~every 30 seconds lol. No super cool wall running and sliding to avoid damage, no great backflip shooting / slicing guys heads off and all the other amazing stuff the combat system is capable of. Just sitting there and hitting the button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyuTheTrinity Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I am not experienced / high level enough to know what all content is like at high levels. I have just been playing a mag duo with family, currently on earth missions with starter weapon and such and am finding the current content reasonably challenging and therefore enjoyable. It may be true that at max level the content is a complete snorefest for all frames, i dunno if that is the developers intent but seems like a waste of an enjoyable combat model by letting vertical progression get out of hand. I mean... i watched the 7 hour survival run youtube video ... all they do is sit there and hit the button ~every 30 seconds lol. No super cool wall running and sliding to avoid damage, no great backflip shooting / slicing guys heads off and all the other amazing stuff the combat system is capable of. Just sitting there and hitting the button. only the corpus have bullets you can actualy dodge with wallruns and stuff grineer have instant hit scan bullets the only way to "dodge" them is to be invincable "ninja" tactics go out the window I am not saying I am happy about i, but I love being the healer and the way the current game is low level content is way to hard and high level content is way to easy because of weapon mods anything past these planed content levels and time limets is actualy reeealy hard and trinity is only useful there so removing invincability would kill her more so then she already is dead people dont play her to have fun with her like I try to they play her because they have no choice if they want to play harder stuff and the op is mad at trinity being able to kill stuff almost as well as press 4 to kill warframes after 6 forma >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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