Zephyr Turbulence Question

[OblivionNecroninja]

Does anybody know if Turbulence affects hitscan weapons like Grineer bullets? And if not, WHY!?

Edited April 7, 2014 by OblivionNecroninja

[DaftMeat]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Turbulence

[OblivionNecroninja]

...The wiki doesn't have an answer to this. It's the first place I checked.

[Paradoxbomb]

It does, even at point blank range I've seen shotgun Troopers miss entirely despite the fact I'm standing perfectly still (some shots will occasionally get through though so it's not perfect).

Edited April 8, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[OblivionNecroninja]

It does, even at point blank range I've seen shotgun Troopers miss entirely despite the fact I'm standing perfectly still (some shots will occasionally get through though so it's not perfect).

Thanks. The description says "projectiles" and, IIRC, "projectiles" is DE-Speak for "non-hitscan", so I wanted to check. Glad it actually works against Grineer.

Edited April 8, 2014 by OblivionNecroninja

[Paradoxbomb]

Thanks. The description says "projectiles" and, IIRC, "projectiles" is DE-Speak for "non-hitscan", so I wanted to check. Glad it actually works against Grineer.

 

Just keep in mind that, like the Wiki says, it won't do you much against Napalms or Bombards since the projectiles tend to get deflected into the nearest wall and hit you with the explosion anyway.

[Aishi]

Depends on your power range, which Turbulence is affected by.

Usually, Grineer will hit you if you don't compensate for the range loss on Narrow-minded.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Aishi

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[LynxZ4r0Z]

basicly as iv seen it>

>if you stand still and enemies move you get hit alot ofthen

> if you move and enemies move you will get hit only like 3 or 4 times while the bubble is up

> correct me if im wrong.

[Sloan441]

It does, but incoming fire always has a chance to hit.

 

It does seem to work better with projectiles. AoE projectiles (missiles and napalm strikes) will be deflected, but you'll still probably take damage from the blast.

 

Everything I've seen says range doesn't effect turbulence. The only time I've noticed getting hit more by grineer is when there's more grineer shooting at you. If you've got a dozen troopers unloading grakatas on you, you're going to get hit quite a bit regardless.

[(PSN)witch3rDC52]

Depends on your power range, which Turbulence is affected by.

Usually, Grineer will hit you if you don't compensate for the range loss on Narrow-minded.

^ This.  My Duration build also has Overextend and Stretch to compensate for Narrow-minded.  My Overextend isn't fully ranked as I need a lower ranked one for another frame.

[Sloan441]

Read the wiki. Pay special attention to the maximizing tab. This explains how turbulence works and what mods do to it.

 

You do see some weirdness with turbulence, but it's because it is a deflection power. It deflects incoming shots a certain amount (and that is what is affected by power). That's why you get hit sometimes; it doesn't deflect the shot enough to miss you. If you don't move, then that angle remains the same and you can get hit repeatedly if there's no movement between the shooter and shootee (you).

 

Turbulance is affected by duration mods. It lasts longer (duh).

 

Turbulance is affected by efficiency mods. Costs less to cast (no small thing with her dinky power pool).

 

Turbulance is not affected by any positive degree by range. Don't bother if turbulence is your primary concern.

 

Turbulance is technically affected by power mods. It increases the angle of deflection. What this might mean in the game is arguable, but for all practical purposes turbulence won't be your primary concern if modding for power.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

Turbulence is one of those things I wouldn't trust the wiki on.

[Sloan441]

Well, I'm not sure I'd consider it the final word, but what they have posted with turbulence pretty much matches up to what I've seen in the game.

 

Unless someone can come up with some more stringent testing or get DE to come clean with actual mechanics, its explanation seems to match the behavior of the ability in the game. I've seen a variety of speculation, but this seems to cover all the weirdness you do see from turbulence in the game.  

[MuscleVictor]

A tip when facing Bombards/Napalms: the further away the projectile explodes, the less likely you are to take damage from the explosion. To this effect, increasing the AoE of Turbulence, and standing in narrow hallways helps deflect the projectile farther away from you, and the narrow hallway gives the projectile less distance to cover before exploding. This should help reduce the amount of damage you receive, if done correctly.

[Darzk]

Read the wiki. Pay special attention to the maximizing tab. This explains how turbulence works and what mods do to it.

 

And... the following information is mostly incorrect.

 

Power strength has no discernible affect on deflection %age. Tested with 40% and 229% ps, no change.

 

Range has a SIGNIFICANT impact on deflection - they occur closer or farther from you - increased range will better deflect projectiles, decreased range will sometimes deflect melee attacks. I tested a bunch of different ranges and settled on ~80% to be ideal (-66+45) which is full NM and Stretch, allowing for the same reflection ability against bullets, often reflecting special melee attacks, but not reflecting missiles far enough to escape the splash. 

[Sloan441]

Interesting ideas, but I'm not really seeing a range difference. It would make sense with the angle theory, since increased an increased area of effect would give an earlier influence for a greater amount of deflection.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not seeing it. Not so far.

 

I've been running two builds identical but for shields/hps and range. One is stock range, one +45% (full on stretch). Any more on range would effect power and I didn't want to muddy with water with power variations.

 

Ran a few T2S missions (because I had lots of keys, need a fang blade, and goodly amounts of ranged mobs). Runs tended to 15-20 min because of O2 and standing around letting stuff shoot at me for extended periods.

 

In large open rooms with lots of mobs with 0% range: no hits outside of grenades and turbulence falloff. Max of about dozen or so mobs. In large open rooms with 45% range, same thing. Only real damage was from grenades and turbulence falloff. Admittedly, its all anecdotal, but performance in the same conditions felt identical.

 

Melee enemies hit me regardless when they got close.

 

Ran a couple of 20min Nuovos. As has been observed before, hitscan weapons are more difficult to deflect than projectiles. Grineer hit a lot more than corpus. Still, rates of hits seem pretty similar between a 0% range and a 45% range. I will say this: if there is any difference, it's not worth giving up 500hps and shield rating. Things were pretty easy at 1110shields/hps. I had several very close calls at 630shields/hps. Skorpions were a damned nuisance and hit at will.

 

I did get one run in on Nuovos with 105% range and -10% power. This one had a lot of confounding influences (two Trinitys), but it did seem that possibly there was some improved deflection. Maybe. The issue was it still wasn't worth the loss of 500hps and shields, since I wasn't able to extract when I ran into two napalms and assorted light grineer (shield lancers...) and simply didn't have the effective health to keep turbulence up and gun them all down.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Sloan441

[Methanoid]

i thought id read that turbulence is a projected aura, and any enemys caught in the radius of your turbulence aura have their firing accuracy reduced, so its just a case of the enemys not shooting straight as opposed to magically deflecting bullets out of harms way.

[Sloan441]

Thinking of it as an aura doesn't seem to cover all its behavior in the game. Even enemies shooting at me from considerable range seem to suffer deflection.

 

The situation I've run into that makes me think that is seeing a door in a large room in the void with no enemies in the immediate area. Door opens and heavy gunner steps through and immediately fires Zeph up. No hits, but you do get that whizzing sound of deflected round nearby. Range is about 30-40m.

 

Also, on very large outdoor maps with grineer. You'll be taking hits but the difference in rate is about the same as the very large outdoor area (with ranges over 50m in some cases) as it would be in a cramped room with lots of grineer hanging near an O2 canister.

 

There's a zone the deflection takes place in, but that's in the immediate vicinity of Zephyr (and what all the ranged variations above were supposed to illuminate, at least to some degree) and it doesn't seem to be projected onto enemies.

[Darzk]

I would try testing - range rather than + range. 0% and 45% range would have no difference, as the effect works fully at both. However I was noticing a significant amount of increased bullet hits at -66% range, and they nearly all went away when I upped it to -21% range.

 

And @ -66% and -21% range, Scorpions almost always would miss with their grapple.

[Sloan441]

I can't recall Skorps ever landing a grapple with turbulence up. It's the melee attack I was referring to. I suppose it's possible since it is a projectile, but I can't recall getting harpooned with turbulence up offhand. Didn't see it last night at all.

 

Yeah, I think I'll try reducing range just to see what happens. At 80% range, it's possible it might be noticeable, but I had a lot of issues due to low power and just bad luck dealing with napalms and bombards and the lowish health. Also, the Trins were muddying the waters with blessing.

 

My issue from what I've seen so far is that modifying the range just for turbulence seems to be counterproductive from a survivability standpoint. Adding stretch or overextended means giving up something else. I chose to switch to vigor from redirection/vitality. This has some negative consequences. Zeph has very good base health and shields, but turbulence with 630 isn't anything as secure as turbulence with 1110, especially when dealing with splash damage.

 

Other things could be dropped, but dropping efficiency would be bad (which my Zeph builds center around). I might try dropping flow (kinda risky with the small power pool), but it would remove the health/shields differential.

 

That's a practical observation. From the more theoretical, it's definitely interesting and the angle of deflection mechanic seems to support what we're seeing in the game. With U13 going live tonight, I'll be busy with that, but hopefully will find time this coming weekend to experiment some more with turbulence.

[Babalenong]

turbulence seems to affect enemies directly in line of sight with zephyr, and hitscan/projectile weapon that seems close to hitting the zephyr. even when standing still i hardly receive any damage. i would argue that turbulence is far more useful than iron skin

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

I finally stopped being lazy and built Zephyr yesterday. I was originally saving plat to by the U12 bundle since I that's the only method I have to get the Phage at the moment, but decided screw it. Phage isn't that important to me, and I already fully researched my dojo, so... I just built the 3 separate parts and rushed the 3 day secondary build time lol. I'll do some personal testing on Zephyr later today. It really shouldn't be hard, I don't even need a maxed Zephyr for all the test scenarios needed.

[Darzk]

Zeph has very good base health and shields, but turbulence with 630 isn't anything as secure as turbulence with 1110, especially when dealing with splash damage..

 

Yeah, always use Redirection. It's Vigor I generally dump for Stretch, when using Narrow Minded... That's Zeph with 1110 shields, instead of 1290, only a 14% drop. 450 health is a large enough pool to deal with bleeds and I cant recall the last time I was downed, when shields get close to breaking just escape/tornado cc.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Darzk