De, You Took What Should Have Been Fun And Just Turned It Into A Grind

[AveryJ]

i dont think the grind for stances would be that bad if they removed some of the stupid mods like intruder and warframe powers from the droptables.....i have so many tailwind...

[ScarletDial]

But nobody's going to buy dragon packs for a chance to get stances.

 

There were threads full of people complaining that they dumped fat dollars on dragon packs after not getting stances within hours of release. You overestimate the average impulse buyer.

[ScarletDial]

Which, ironically, would have been 10 times better than what we currently have.  Even with a stance, there are only 2-3 combos you can pull off during any one match.  You know what no one has ever said?  "Yeah, I love spectacle fighters and actions games.  But there's just so much move variety.  You know what would be awesome?  Being forced to play Devil May Cry for hundreds of hours while performing the same basic combo over and over again.  That would make things so much more fun!" 

 

This is the real horror. Even if melee 2.0 was scrapped over and over again, you'd think the one thing they would keep would be the animations. Even then however, there are so few new animations it's practically painful and so is how obvious it is where old animations are cut and stitched together to try and emulate whole cloth. At the VERY least I'd think each weapon would have a dial E, an E-EEE, an EEE-mash and a hold E. Standard, slow and heavy, rapidfire combo extender, one-shot-one-kill. Basic bread and butter of any slasher game. I wouldn't mind stance cards one bit if they at least had this much content. There is already a very robust framework to vary them as well with knockdowns/launchers/AoEs/combo count builders/multi target hits/status multipliers/critical multipliers/etc. already in place. Even if a combo looks similar to another, how hard is it to make it do something like "the last hit is extremely likely to cause bleed" when you do some vicious stab twist with your dagger or something?

 

EDIT: Apologies for double post I am $&*&*#(%&.

Edited April 12, 2014 by ScarletDial

[Nadhua]

 

Honestly without the grind whats the point of the game at all?

to have fun killing stuff in stylish ways.

[se05239]

Each freaking large update has just been DE increasing the RNG and locking new content behind its doors.

DE raised the bar one more step with Melee 2,0 and Update 13.

 

They should stop with it. This might lead to the game's undoing if left rampaging.

Edited April 12, 2014 by se05239

[Edgedemon]

first 2 lines told another one that want everything easy mode and had stop reading.

 

except for a few really hard to get mods (dam you nikana stance) the new mods aren't harder to find than the previous ones, and even without them i assure you a LOT of people is enjoying the update now, even stance less melee feels better.

 

before they even think about modifiying the drop tables so every enemy you kill gives you an stance so you can get  em all in 5 mins like you want.

 

they should look at real problems like the survival stuck bug, the glaive/kestrel throwing problem, the massive drop in FPS in shipyard maps or the huge server load problem.

 

P.D.: with no effort whatsoever i found 4 stances in some 10 games, so the problem is you cant get the one you want, and that's your problem

[Edgedemon]

124 rare mods transmutated and 2.5 million credits in the hole, and I have 3 rare stance mods to show for it. 2 Flailing Branch, 1 Crossing Snakes.

"What's that? You wanted Gleaming Talon? Have fun grinding LEECH OSPREYS! MUHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!"

DE pls

 

lol you can get crossing snakes on a single run to ceres survival missions

 

 

EDIT: lets be fair transmutation is the less efficient method to get any mod. which by the way gets worse with each mod added

Edited April 12, 2014 by Edgedemon

[Orthrosius]

first 2 lines told another one that want everything easy mode and had stop reading.

Um. Do you think grinding is difficult? It's not. It's boring. I'd love to get mods from really difficult bosses that you have to spend time learning, or missions like the stealth mastery test. Unfortunately rewards in this game aren't really tied to difficulty. Even the parts that are difficult, high level survival/defense/interception, require you to sit through quite a bit of easy to get to, and whether you get worthwhile rewards from them is still just RNG.

The problem DE has built a game with fun mechanics but made progression boring. Asking them to fix it isn't asking to make everything easy mode. Quite the opposite; I want progression to be linked to achievement, not just putting in the required time in front of the screen.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Orthrosius

[Guristas]

"We don't care. We don't have to care! We're DE!" is the impression that Im getting from DE recently

[Zardica]

Bumping this flawless thread yet again for great justice.

[Aeriax]

Attempting to get Hydroid's parts is painful. Absolutely painful. Not only do you have to spend a great deal of time actually getting (in some cases, irritatingly rare) components to build the triangulation keys- but then you have to wait for an hour for them to build- so you can't just quickly try your luck against the RNG.

 

At the end of last April, I had to run Themisto over a hundred times to get the Volt Systems. Remember when J3 Golem was the Jupiter boss? When Infested were on the star map regularly, and Volt wasn't something you just RESEARCHED and PURCHASED from the Dojo? (I'm feeling mighty sore about that right now- If I remember correctly, it was either 106 or 108 runs before I'd gotten Volt Systems). And that was fast grinding, quick in and out optimized assassinations.

 

You can't do that with Hydroid for a variety of reasons.

1. You need to construct a key.

1a. This key requires just under 30 components to craft, two of which being painfully rare.

1b. This key requires an entire hour of construction time before it can be used.

2. Hek is a multi-stage boss. He's at least kind of interesting to fight, but you can't just immediately take him down, extending the mission time greatly.

3. You need to spend a great deal of time actually acquiring key components- survival or defense missions are generally regarded as the best, and Prosecutors don't spawn until at least five minutes into a Survival.

 

So let's see what Hydroid is locked behind.

-Key component RNG

-1 hour of key construction time

-Warframe Component RNG

 

That's two RNG walls and an arbitrary wait time. It very quickly becomes the antithesis of fun, scraping together enough materials for a key only to get your fourth Hydroid Chassis (in addition to the one you've already built), or your second or third helmet with no sign of the systems in sight.

 

I know, someone's probably going to say "Well, what about Lephantis? You need to grind nav coordinates in order to get into derelicts in order to get the assassination coords don't you? And THOSE take an hour, right?" Consider the following. The drop rates on nav coordinates aren't flesh-searingly awful. It takes time to get Lephantis keys but it feels less arduous because you're just breaking containers rather than grinding (high level) enemies.

[Endorphinz]

Well you don't really NEED the stance mods. Some of them only add like one new attack.

But yeah, thanks for the grind, DE (sarcasm). Aside from melee stance mods, this update also added beacons and argon crystals which are a whole other headache in their own.

[OblivionNecroninja]

Agreed. Stance mods are way too rare for how key they are to melee 2.0

[Valafor]

Well you don't really NEED the stance mods. Some of them only add like one new attack.

But yeah, thanks for the grind, DE (sarcasm). Aside from melee stance mods, this update also added beacons and argon crystals which are a whole other headache in their own.

Well if we don't need a stance mod, why don't we just revert back to melee 1.0? What bugs me is that in order to get into an essential game mechanic is that you need to be lucky? They want to make rare, powerful stances gained by RNG? Fine with me. But at least give us SOMETHING to use.

[Khunvyel]

why don't we just revert back to melee 1.

At least give us SOMETHING to use.

 

I'm sorry, what?

• way superior damage
• perma-staggering
• ~135° degree frontal cone block invulnerability
• Lots of weapons hit multiple targets now which previously didn't.
• Even faster zorencoptering than before
• Counter attacks (while more style than usefulness currently, I bet this will get more interesting once stealth-finishers get revamped)
• Many ground finishers finally connect to their targets in a reasonable amount of time, especially for slower, heavier weapons
• More coolness factor overall.

Stance mods are for combos which you apply at the very end of the chain, and more often than not, this isn't really even useful because you are better off executing quick slice'n'dice hits or spam slide attack. Personally, I view stance mods more as a style factor than being actual useful, though until I have each and every stance mod, this statement is not set in stone.

 

I'd be more on the barricades for the stance mods if they would give us more movement options which are immediately available. like holding E opening up an entirely new chain of heavier attacks. Or simply adding more moves with different key combinations up front. THEN it would be a lot more interesting to actually use a stance. And THEN I'd be pounding my fist on the table as to why not each and every stance mod isn't of "uncommon" quality and why not each and every stance mod ONLY drops from melee oriented enemies.

[Shinobi-kun]

Should've made stances a skill we can allot points in it. 

They did talked about 'lens' and whatnot. 

[Endorphinz]

Well if we don't need a stance mod, why don't we just revert back to melee 1.0? What bugs me is that in order to get into an essential game mechanic is that you need to be lucky? They want to make rare, powerful stances gained by RNG? Fine with me. But at least give us SOMETHING to use.

Sorry, I just meant, you don't need stance mods to be able to enjoy melee 2.0.

But they still do add extra fun to the gameplay, which is why it's such a shame that you have to grind for them,

[LuMeow]

Yeah, I agreed with OP. We don't need so many funny things that we can't enjoy while the U13 is released.

I was so excited about U13 and melee 2.0, but let's see:

1.New weapon in dojo research: Well, that's ok, I think. I can wait.

2.Stance mod with low drop rate, this make me and my friend upset, but still farming.

3.Combo system is too difficult to use. There are so many reason make it hard to perform a melee combo.(fps,lag,ping...)

The new melee damage and Channeling is fine, but th combo system:

E.E.E ( Hold/Pause ) E.E....oh my, I can't do this well, all I can do is spawn "E" just like before.

Edited April 14, 2014 by LuMeow

[Warlord1400]

This amount of grind can kill a horse. 

 

omg , guys u get angry over everything.

THIS IS A EASY GRIND.

ill tell u why :

1.play extermination on ceres.

2. play until u have LOTS of everything.

3. make keys.

4. kill boss 3-6 times and DONE.

 

isnt that simple ?,

its easier than nekros......

1. nekros is easier

2. prosecutors

3. vay hek.

4.repeat

[ReiganCross]

I just want to remind people here of something i'v always said... Mod 2.0 is a bad, bad, bad idea... All those complains are Mod 2.0 complains, all of them. Now start asking for Mod 3.0 or a fix for Mod 2.0.

[psyanide]

Scrapped. The previous version of melee 2.0 was cut completely because it "felt more like Devil May Cry".

I heard that in the LiveStream and almost choked on my drink at the time. The melee system felt too much like "Devil May Cry"?

Look, I obviously did not see your system in action, but I get the feeling that the reason you cut months of work had a little more to it than 'it felt too similar to one of the most loved melee brawlers in the world'. I mean, Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2 would have been a better influence, but regardless. I do not believe you, devs. Sorry.

My guess is that it was not easily exploitable for another mod grind, so they chopped it up and the current Melee is the result. A very unfinished feeling system with NONE of the branching options that were so touted in the Streams leading up to the release. Three clicks or three clicks and a hold? I really hope you plan on developing more combos for each Stance, because as it stands, things are a joke compared to what was being talked about. Getting a Stance mod and fully upgrading it now nets you ONE extra move than what you had in Melee 1.0. Oh wait, no it doesn't, because Charged attacks are gone... Whoop... Dee... Doo... I am so full of style...

Edited April 16, 2014 by psyanide

[PocketSponge]

I understand why people are complaining about the amount of grinding you have to do to get a little piece of the new update. Then again, i completely support this grind. It ain't fun to get all the content at once. You play with the mods for about 100 hours and then you are done with it. With this grind you are playing WAY more hours. I personally like the satisfaction about seeing a stance mod being dropped. Sure it is a long haul to get them but it means i get to play Warframe a lot more. 

 

But of course this update has a downside. I mean, 24 hours you are able to play the new dark sectors maps. Then you have to play this conflict over and over and over again. After the 48 hours, another clan is able to directly place a new rail. Why is there no ''Cool Down'' on deploying a new rail? I would like to be able to play the dark sectors for more than 24 hours. In fact, i'm not even playing that long! I'm able to play Warframe for 6 hours and then the next day these conflicts are back! 

 

A very angered Tenno.

[Voltyr]

I understand why people are complaining about the amount of grinding you have to do to get a little piece of the new update. Then again, i completely support this grind. It ain't fun to get all the content at once. You play with the mods for about 100 hours and then you are done with it. With this grind you are playing WAY more hours. I personally like the satisfaction about seeing a stance mod being dropped. Sure it is a long haul to get them but it means i get to play Warframe a lot more.

There are rare mods for this purpose that aren't CORE GAMEPLAY MECHANICS like Stance mods are. Imagine if you played Devil May Cry and you had to grind for like 20 hours to unlock the ability to perform combos...with a weapon you don't even have yet.

EDIT: I realize this example isn't perfect because Warframe is not technically a game from the same genre, but the developers openly admitted that it's the kind of game that inspired them to create melee 2.0, and melee has always been a very prominent feature of this game so I stand by what I stated above.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Voltyr

[PocketSponge]

There are rare mods for this purpose that aren't CORE GAMEPLAY MECHANICS like Stance mods are. Imagine if you played Devil May Cry and you had to grind for like 20 hours to unlock the ability to perform combos...with a weapon you don't even have yet.

I actually don't see a problem to farm a mod for a weapon i don't have yet. It gives me a reason to get the weapon faster.

[Xaelon]

+1 to the OP.  I really hope DE has read this thread and does something about the multi-layered RNG cake that this game has become.  It's too bad that you have to chew through a foot of concrete to reach the next good part of the cake.  It's really sad too, because the actual cake is good.

 

I don't know how much more RNG I can take.  There's always more RNG in front of everything I want.  I would love to be able to get my hands on the Brakk and Detron, but both rare spawn bosses never spawn enough for me to try and get what I want.  I finally got my despair from the Stalker a few days ago, which I had been trying to get for the last 5-6 months.  I wonder if getting the Brakk and Detron will take me a similar amount of time.  It's bad game design to lock gameplay features behind something so dependant on luck.  What's the point of even having the feature if people will never see it?

 

I hate getting hyped up for these great new features that DE adds, only to find out that they're locked behind a stupid amount of RNG.  I wouldn't have a single prime item to my name if not for prime access and prime trading.  I remember my quest to complete Burston Prime.  I got every single part, except one with a reasonable amount of effort.  Thank goodness prime trading came out shortly after I ran out of keys trying to get the last part.  I don't think I would have ever completed the gun otherwise.

 

I'm MR10 and I'm getting to the point where there's nothing else I want to forma.  My Boltor Prime kills things so well that I'm about ready put it aside because it makes the game too easy.  Which is sad, because it's one of the most statisfying guns I've ever used in any game.  If I have to nerf myself to make a game more fun, there's something wrong with the game.

 

I really, really want to like this game.  The core is an excellent foundation.  Combat alone has made me play for countless hours but I can only kill the same three groups of enemies so long.  Unless something major changes with the next big patch I think I may be done.  It just feels like I've seen everything the game has to offer.