Let Me See If I Understand: Rhino Prime Is Now The Perfect Frame

[Monolake]

the thing is, Rhino is not viable 'late game' - he in really good in the solar map and for most of what you do in WF - but if you are really going to push content wave 50+ defense, super long survivals - then Rhino, and even trinity, is not really what you want.  Frames like Nekros, Frost/vauban, Nyx and Nova become more viable.  Rhino and Trinity rule the solar map though. . .

 

wrong. trinity for god cheat, rhino for CC+ damage - buff both are great in endless waves

[Kishiharu]

OKAY, LETS' TALK ABOUT FROST PRIME TOO.

 

He's pretty much nothing at the minute. About the CC part? Nope, zip, nada, cero, jelo. I believe the only way to balance him out, apart from the snow globe crisis right now, is the fact that he needs his avalanche with his freeze duration back implemented OFFICIALLY. I'm saying this because he is, right now, by far the most useless frame you can possibly take on some missions other than defense. I'm currently doing as much as I can since he's my go-to frame (and I despise how broken Rhino is, therefore don't even have him in my pocket.) for end-game runs. Increasing duration of Snowglobe, his own innate tankiness(Maxed redirection, vitality, vigor, and steel fiber) along with (80% knock back resistance: Fortitude + Surefooted) I still can't make him tankier and more viable than Rhino. Making frost, you simply created a less viable Rhino. If anything, I'm a support frame, who can globe for 3 seconds on endgame. It's been about a month now, what's the status on Frost?

[Oriviagene]

I have a friend that plays warframe for about a year...he crafted 3 frames, all rhinos.... he said "with rhino i can do any mission i want alone or online, theres no reason to change" i wont even tell him about rhino prime =P

 

and yes, when you make a game character that deals high amounts of damage, have high amounts of armor and shields and also is VERY fast (with vanguard helmet even faster), i think you have failed in understanding what balance is...

Lol wut?

Is he trying to make another grustrag 3? :)

[BlueSilkMetallic]

rhino is fine

his helm too

do not even think about changing him ^^

(or any other frame except undoing your previous nerfs)

[HolySoul77]

DEs said today that they will not nerf rhino....BUT, they will nerf trinity and possibly nova....so ye, rhino prime is officialy the GOD of warframe

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

HolySoul77 you know i though this thread was dead but apparently people liked this theme. Anyways at least they will fix Trinity's godmode and give her something unique (hope they keep link though) and cant wait to see what they are going to do whit Nova.

 

Rhino Prime is still the Godframe ut at least we are getting some results in other áreas.

[Shin]

Reduce his movement speed and add some more stamina to our big guy and there you are. He's balanced. Its just he doesnt have to be fast.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Shin Thats actually a pretty good idea. He cans till keep up whit the team but he wont be as fast as the runner frames.

[fatpig84]

Like I said before, bringing Vanguard to 20% and Hemlok to 20% will make both Rhino and Saryn still decent movers.

And Rhino Prime will still be hella fast but not loki fast.

 

Otherwise nerfing his sprint speed to 0.95 will have the same effect.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

I seriously look down on anyone asking to nerf rhino, he's actually one of the few balanced warframes out there, iron skin might as well be called paper skin on high level enemies, the ones you engage before claiming to have credibility to post in the forums y'know?

 

Roar, awesome skill, beneifts you, the team, it's great, rhino charge fits its role just as it's supposed to.

 

Then we have rhino stomp, sure you can spam that, but how long can you keep that playstyle before you fail, but that's where i'm willing to give some, reduce suspended duration or things in that line.

[Buzkyl]

I seriously look down on anyone asking to nerf rhino, he's actually one of the few balanced warframes out there, iron skin might as well be called paper skin on high level enemies, the ones you engage before claiming to have credibility to post in the forums y'know?

 

 

That's because Ironskin has a hardcap and doesn't scale toward infinity so the long you find  endless waves of mobs, the stronger they become and the easier it is for them to remove iron skin. The problem is infinite enemy scaling which is an issue for all hardcap abilities.

[WARLOCKE]

DEs said today that they will not nerf rhino....BUT, they will nerf trinity and possibly nova....so ye, rhino prime is officialy the GOD of warframe

 

You are a dolt. But you are in good company I guess.

[UmbraLotus]

Umm.... Well, I think this is really far fetched. I'm no Rhino/Prime fan myself, I've never used him myself because he's a bit too mainstream for me. However, comparing his speed to Loki or Nova, now THAT'S what's laughable. You think a 1.0 sprint speed is fast? Are you kidding? His speed was 0.9 before guy. It's 1 DECIMAL, yes, this is drastic, and that's not sarcasm. However, look at Loki's Sprint speed, 1.25. And look at Nova's Sprint speed, 1.2. These are 2 decimals ahead. Therefore... Rhino Prime, a lot faster than Rhino, will still never be as fast as Loki or Nova. And, CC frame/ultimate tank or not, his Prime and regular form are just, they remind me of an overweight midget. Watching people stomp around as him is just, laughable at best.

[WARLOCKE]

Umm.... Well, I think this is really far fetched. I'm no Rhino/Prime fan myself, I've never used him myself because he's a bit too mainstream for me. However, comparing his speed to Loki or Nova, now THAT'S what's laughable. You think a 1.0 sprint speed is fast? Are you kidding? His speed was 0.9 before guy. It's 1 DECIMAL, yes, this is drastic, and that's not sarcasm. However, look at Loki's Sprint speed, 1.25. And look at Nova's Sprint speed, 1.2. These are 2 decimals ahead. Therefore... Rhino Prime, a lot faster than Rhino, will still never be as fast as Loki or Nova. And, CC frame/ultimate tank or not, his Prime and regular form are just, they remind me of an overweight midget. Watching people stomp around as him is just, laughable at best.

 

To be fair, you are leaving out the impact of Vanguard. It brings him up to Nova speed but is still lower than the lokster. Which I am 1000% ok with because unlike 70% of the people post in this thread, I actually play Rhino Prime and know he Endurance pool is one of the smallest in the game so keeping those speeds up is not viable. Like a real Rhino, he charges pretty fast but then peters out because hes fat (lol im stupid).

[sanj66]

Shin Thats actually a pretty good idea. He cans till keep up whit the team but he wont be as fast as the runner frames.

Shin Thats actually a pretty good idea. He cans till keep up whit the team but he wont be as fast as the runner frames.

increasing his stamina pool doesnt mean he can keep up with the rest of the team, sure he can sprint for longer than he can but they will still be ahead of him due to faster sprint speeds, making him in a lot of cases irrelevant, as he would arrive after the team has killed everything in alot of instances. rhino is no god frame, he is the poorest scaling frame, and it doesnt even need focused fire to remove his iron skin, it takes 2-3 shots at 40 minutes of t3 survival, now based on you all saying he is a tank and tanking is his specialty why do non tank frames out tank him? zephyr or trinity for instance, they are not tanks so the tanking aspect of their game which covered one of their weakness should be removed by your standard, as to your other posts about rhino being able to spam stomp, you cant spam stomp, it has a 8 second cd on the stasis and a power in use restraint on it, meaning you cant "spam" it like lets say m prime or snow globe, also note the mobs tumble they dont remain in one position so vital areas to shoot at arent that easy, if your gonna talk about soma, i got a 5 forma soma, a 4 forma penta, boltor prime, burston prime, brakk, marelok etc, and you still can never kill every target not to mention there is always the risk of new mobs entering and then your focus switches to them and not the mobs in stasis.

iron skin is not the best cc ignore skill, at late content it ignores cc for what 1-2 seconds/1-2 hits, at 45 minutes of t1 survival a single ground slam by a heavy gunner will drop ironskin and knock you down still. rhino is no where near what a god frame is, also the whole thought of a tank must be slow, there are a multitude of games where tanks are fast and are split into different tank categories, aggressive tank, defensive tank, support tank and a damage tank, there are other games that sub divide classes and i see no reason why warframe should be an exception, it gives more variety and doesnt have so much restriction that a player may love a specific frame but not play it due to it being fit into a cliche role.

Edited April 27, 2014 by sanj66

[fatpig84]

Umm.... Well, I think this is really far fetched. I'm no Rhino/Prime fan myself, I've never used him myself because he's a bit too mainstream for me. However, comparing his speed to Loki or Nova, now THAT'S what's laughable. You think a 1.0 sprint speed is fast? Are you kidding? His speed was 0.9 before guy. It's 1 DECIMAL, yes, this is drastic, and that's not sarcasm. However, look at Loki's Sprint speed, 1.25. And look at Nova's Sprint speed, 1.2. These are 2 decimals ahead. Therefore... Rhino Prime, a lot faster than Rhino, will still never be as fast as Loki or Nova. And, CC frame/ultimate tank or not, his Prime and regular form are just, they remind me of an overweight midget. Watching people stomp around as him is just, laughable at best.

 

 

Wear Vanguard like everyone and their dog does.

Rhino Prime goes to 1.25.

He is on the same speed tier as Loki.

 

All Lokis fit rush, Rhino Prime can do it as well.

So he fits it. He is as fast as Loki without the paper thin effect.

 

=================

 

"But Loki has invisibility !!2212!"

Helpful Loki don't use invisibility, they spec radial disarm.

And a max disarm range Loki will only have 4 seconds of invisibility.

A balanced spec tilting towards disarm will have Loki invisibility lasting like uh 16 seconds (+4 over default) while Disarm range is still at 50m while keeping RD energy cost at 25.

 

 

Anyhow Lokis wearing Redirection and Swindle will have 555 + 213 health.

A Rhino with a single maxed redirection has 1000+ shields.

 

Think about that for a second.

Edited April 27, 2014 by fatpig84

[Shin]

-snip

I ran survivals with rhino and rhino squadmates. None of us was getting knocked down or getting our iron skin removed in seconds. Now i cant say i can talk for enemies more than 50 minute mark but i didnt have any problems because i was mobile and using Roar etc to buff my allies. You dont need to tank a whole lots of enemies while not giving a damn about their firepower. You are suppose to be a ninja, be mobile try dodging bullets etc i know it gets problematic when you see 5 napams firing down hell upon you but thats where you use your stomp and aim for their heads. Im not going to say you are doing it wrong but people needs to move around and actually do something instead of expecting rhino to tank a whole army and be as fast as loki.

 

Now the reason why i said reduce his movement speed is he doesnt have to be fast as Loki. You dont need to race with your teammates or use rhino in a capture mission. You cant use the warframe you want? Sure you can but you dont see Frost users getting upset because of Frosts movement speed(okay i do but he's a support mage kinda frame). Just reduce his main movement speed, add some really good amounts of stamina and there you go. There is still zorencoptering and sliding etc.

 

You know what, im blaming DE for this nonsense. I mean that vanguard helmet. Now i want a movement speed bonus alternate helmet too but i cant have it right? 

[sanj66]

I ran survivals with rhino and rhino squadmates. None of us was getting knocked down or getting our iron skin removed in seconds. Now i cant say i can talk for enemies more than 50 minute mark but i didnt have any problems because i was mobile and using Roar etc to buff my allies. You dont need to tank a whole lots of enemies while not giving a damn about their firepower. You are suppose to be a ninja, be mobile try dodging bullets etc i know it gets problematic when you see 5 napams firing down hell upon you but thats where you use your stomp and aim for their heads. Im not going to say you are doing it wrong but people needs to move around and actually do something instead of expecting rhino to tank a whole army and be as fast as loki.

 

Now the reason why i said reduce his movement speed is he doesnt have to be fast as Loki. You dont need to race with your teammates or use rhino in a capture mission. You cant use the warframe you want? Sure you can but you dont see Frost users getting upset because of Frosts movement speed(okay i do but he's a support mage kinda frame). Just reduce his main movement speed, add some really good amounts of stamina and there you go. There is still zorencoptering and sliding etc.

 

You know what, im blaming DE for this nonsense. I mean that vanguard helmet. Now i want a movement speed bonus alternate helmet too but i cant have it right? 

when did i say i stood around lol? or was immobile, but being hit 2 time is very hard if not impossible to do when you hit the 40-45 minute mark especially now with the change to mob spawn, they dont gradually spawn more, they mass spawn now in huge amounts in 1 area, i also stated that to show the irrelevance of iron skin and its uselessness and inability to scale, its a static value based skill, unlike loki, trinity, zephyr, nyx, valkyr, ash, nova, excal , even frost  and all other frames with duration based power, yes you use stomp, but did your bother to read what i said after, if you are surrounded by mobs and use stomp while they are tumbling to have to aim at each mobs head at that level, especially if its heavies you will never kill every mob, on top of that you can/may get swarmed by new mobs who were outside of stomp's radius, stomp is also not spamable as it has cd and power in use, so you cant cancel it and recast it to stun those new mobs, now even if you focus on recasting stomp even with max efficiency you will run out of energy, what then? stomp is his only viable skill in late game and it still doesnt measure up to other #4 powers, he is a tank and yet gets out tanked by none tank frames, so like i said if tanking is supposed to be his strengths, by all means buff his strength, increase iron skin or convert it back to duration, but non tank frames who are not supposed to be tanks should either get tanking skills removed or nerfed, and i dont mean this to you but as the op started about strengths and weaknesses that goes by his logic. the reason rhino has speed is to help with his poor scaling its the same argument other frames use that they need speed to survive. also to me coptering is never an excuse espeically now that you can unequip weapons, also like i said increasing his stamina pool doesnt mean he can keep up with a team, he can sprint further but if not faster he will still arrive after all the action is done, then whats the purpose of him even being in a team but to pick up loot?

[Shin]

Warning: Huge wall of text but i had to do it. 

-snip

Man that wall of text,.. Please do something about it. Its painfull to even take a look at.

 

About iron skin not scaling.  

 

Iron skin "Maximized Power Strenght increases damage absorbed to 2748."

 

This is pretty goood i say. Not perfect but not bad. The reason why i said move around is that for maximum effective use of Iron skin. It saves you from random bullets that goes through your evasive moves. About rhino stomp, that skill shouldnt be used to clear waves because you are not going to do well after some time. Instead, use it to stun priority targets like Napalm, Bombard and Heavy gunners.

 

About his Roar, i find it invaluable. It increases you and your squads damage output.

 

Roar Maximized Power Strength increases damage boost to 114.5%.

 

Then again, Rhino is not meant to stay in one place and tank the whole hell thrown at him. Dont forget the fact that the characters you are playing are ninja's, not your every day world of warcraft tanks.

 

non tank frames who are not supposed to be tanks should either get tanking skills removed or nerfed

 

No. Abosolutely no. Just because one frame doesnt have the surviveability or tools you wanted that doesnt mean others should be removed or nerfed. Whole nerf word destroys every fun aspect of this game.

 

 

the reason rhino has speed is to help with his poor scaling its the same argument other frames use that they need speed to survive. also to me coptering is never an excuse espeically now that you can unequip weapons, also like i said increasing his stamina pool doesnt mean he can keep up with a team, he can sprint further but if not faster he will still arrive after all the action is done, then whats the purpose of him even being in a team but to pick up loot?

Here let me say it like this. You want Rhino to be able to tank everything and move as fast as loki. That doesnt make any sense. First of all, it doesnt make any sense. Coptering is never an excuse? Its a way to utilize your tools. If you dont want to use it then dont use it but dont start calling for nerfs or making demands because your shiny is not shiny enough. The reason why i said add some more stamina to him is that it doesnt make any sense a "supposed" tank like rhino doesnt have the expected stamina. Running for a couple of seconds makes him run out of stamina. You can equip stamina mods but with the current system it doesnt work.

 

To be honest noone cares about tanks in this game. Rhino is not a tank. Everyone can survive with their skill sets. Your way of thinking is wrong from the very start. Even a frail warframe like nekros can survive alot when his skills utilized in a supposed way. Rhino can hold his ground pretty much perfectly but with a heavy frame like his, he doesnt have to be as fast as loki, infact he should be slower with increased stamina.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Shin

[Draciusen]

I'd rather they just nerf Rhino slightly then buff all the other frames (With a few exceptions)

[RealPandemonium]

They should just make heavy weapons able to copter so people won't have an excuse to *@##$ about run speed anymore.

[sanj66]

Warning: Huge wall of text but i had to do it.

Man that wall of text,.. Please do something about it. Its painfull to even take a look at.

About iron skin not scaling.

Iron skin "Maximized Power Strenght increases damage absorbed to 2748."

This is pretty goood i say. Not perfect but not bad. The reason why i said move around is that for maximum effective use of Iron skin. It saves you from random bullets that goes through your evasive moves. About rhino stomp, that skill shouldnt be used to clear waves because you are not going to do well after some time. Instead, use it to stun priority targets like Napalm, Bombard and Heavy gunners.

About his Roar, i find it invaluable. It increases you and your squads damage output.

Roar Maximized Power Strength increases damage boost to 114.5%.

Then again, Rhino is not meant to stay in one place and tank the whole hell thrown at him. Dont forget the fact that the characters you are playing are ninja's, not your every day world of warcraft tanks.

No. Abosolutely no. Just because one frame doesnt have the surviveability or tools you wanted that doesnt mean others should be removed or nerfed. Whole nerf word destroys every fun aspect of this game.

Here let me say it like this. You want Rhino to be able to tank everything and move as fast as loki. That doesnt make any sense. First of all, it doesnt make any sense. Coptering is never an excuse? Its a way to utilize your tools. If you dont want to use it then dont use it but dont start calling for nerfs or making demands because your shiny is not shiny enough. The reason why i said add some more stamina to him is that it doesnt make any sense a "supposed" tank like rhino doesnt have the expected stamina. Running for a couple of seconds makes him run out of stamina. You can equip stamina mods but with the current system it doesnt work.

To be honest noone cares about tanks in this game. Rhino is not a tank. Everyone can survive with their skill sets. Your way of thinking is wrong from the very start. Even a frail warframe like nekros can survive alot when his skills utilized in a supposed way. Rhino can hold his ground pretty much perfectly but with a heavy frame like his, he doesnt have to be as fast as loki, infact he should be slower with increased stamina.

you fail to read again, when did i ever say you are immobile? so you mean to tell me all the while absolutely nothing hits you, if you build max str you lose efficiency and the ep to shielding turnover is less than a efficiency turnover, not to mention it destroys the efficiency of all your other skills, then to counter than efficiency you are destroying your duration skills, to counter duration loss you lose range. you also fail to read where i said the tanking issue was a reply to the op, who stated rhino is a tank and should only fit the tank role and be slow, so that is why i said to follow HIS train of thought a non tank frame should not be able to tank, read again before you comment. as for you saying rhino can tank everything, he can at low and mid tiers but thats it, even mid tiers are questionable, try to understand the difference between a static based skill and a duration based skill, its worlds apart a static stat based skill like iron skin can nor will ever scale with mobs. you yourself just said the whole nerf word destroys the fun aspect of the game, yet you are asking for a nerf on rhino? i dunno but to me thats hypocritical so you should make up your mind which side you are on.

you are the one with the set mind state of classic tanks, that a tank or semi tank must be slow, like i said in modern mmos there are different sub categories of roles, eg a tank: aggressive,defensive, support, yet you are the one talking about who is set on classic WoW tank styles? your post is just full of conflicting points to the point of being hypocritical. btw if your dont want to read a wall of text dont, but then if you dont, dont try to work on assumptions of what i am saying instead of reading it and that is why i left it like that and didnt paragraph like my first post, to see if you would read it or just jump to assumptions like you did.

edit: btw just saw another you said rhino is a tank and can tank anything but then come in the end to say he is no tank, so then if he isnt why all the fuss about him being slow, after all he is no tank? and following your classic outlook, a tank must be the slow one, so why must he not be as fast as loki , you just said he is not a tank. you see you keep shooting yourself in the foot with your own posts,

Edited April 27, 2014 by sanj66

[Lymetel]

Rhino is far from perfect, even if his primed version can go fast. I can't call a warframe "perfect" or "broken" that has only two useful skills, Warbros #one if you go up against high level enemies.

[Shin]

Another wall of text thanks to someones inability of understanding the sentences.

-snip

You sir, fail to read. The reason why i said MOVE was if you are taking too much damage and getting your iron skin dropped meaning, You sir, dont move as much as other people do. The reason why i said move was to take advantage of your Iron skin and expend your surviveability through dodging and and moving. Its a way to use your "supposed" tank efficiently.

 

About your efficiency, you dont have to use your skills mindlessly. In a place where mobs are too high level for your iron skin to save you, there has to be Nekros, Trinity etc to keep your Energy from running out. I personally run with Maximum Power Strenght build. I have never had any problem on high levels so far thanks to nekros or trinity energy gain and my high mobile profile.

 

This is where you read but fail to understand the meaning of my words with the possibility of you misunderstanding Rhino. Rhino, aside from his Iron skin, is not a tank. In this game HP and Shields means little against high level mobs and since this is not WoW, you cant really expect any warframe to tank waves of mobs aside from Valkyr who can survive alone no matter what you throw at her and broken trinity.

 

you are the one with the set mind state of classic tanks, that a tank or semi tank must be slow, 
 

Tell me how a heavy frame like Rhino can be fast as a light and frail frame like Loki. Yeah you dont. Why frost is not at the same speed then? Frost is pretty much my favourite frame after loki but you dont see people crying about his movement speed do you ? Yeah he's a caster support. By that logic he should be fast too.

 

like i said in modern mmos there are different sub categories of roles, eg a tank: aggressive,defensive, support, yet you are the one talking about who is set on classic WoW tank styles? your post is just full of conflicting points to the point of being hypocritical. btw if your dont want to read a wall of text dont, but then if you dont, dont try to work on assumptions of what i am saying instead of reading it and that is why i left it like that and didnt paragraph like my first post, to see if you would read it or just jump to assumptions like you did.

edit: btw just saw another you said rhino is a tank and can tank anything but then come in the end to say he is no tank, so then if he isnt why all the fuss about him being slow, after all he is no tank? and following your classic outlook, a tank must be the slow one, so why must he not be as fast as loki , you just said he is not a tank. you see you keep shooting yourself in the foot with your own posts,

Google the meaning of tank in gaming world. I am not conflicting with myself. Im merely presenting facts and truths about this game yet you just want to be able to build and play the game to your liking. Im sorry it doesnt work like that. My posts are not assumptions. Im answering your claims by presenting facts and truths yet you are talking based of your liking to Rhino and what you want him to be.

 

Hmm i'd like you to point me where i said that he's a tank. Now on you your question where you ask if Rhino is not a tank why he's slow? Because logic demands so. A heavy frame like him cant possibly run faster. By looking at his physical frame, you can pretty much understand that he cant run fast like Loki. I thought you would understand the reason why i said that but then again you are too much focused on your Vision of Rhino.

 

I did not shoot myself in the foot. Infact you did that. Then again i was presenting facts, truths and logical claims. All you did was post a Nonsense without any fact with the mix of your Personal vision and your wishes of Rhino. While building a warframe you also have to give up on some of his utility like Power Efficiency and power duration. I too would like to have a max range and power duration for my Loki but i cant have it can i ? Because some things has to be balanced in a way. Claiming something is not balanced and askin it to be balanced around your wishes is just childish. Going by your way of talking about rhino suggests that you liked Rhino's broken iron skin and its changed for a reason.

 

Last words. Please fix your posts, they are painful to read and next time if you want someone to take you seriously, present facts, truths and logical claims. Otherwise dont make others laugh at you because right now your inability of understanding clouds your judgement and the point of this thead. If you cant do that dont bother posting.

 

[sandweed]

It's true Rhino is the best frame ever.