Why Take Over A 0% Tax Solar Rail?

[AbaliskInfinite]

Solar Rails get added so clans can clash and cause conflicts, giving them something to aim for.

 

People complain about clans clashing and causing conflicts.

 

What did you people expect?

If this is what we were getting, I would expect it to be fun :/

[Vargras]

If this is what we were getting, I would expect it to be fun :/

That's the expectations of the playerbase. Not really DE's fault.

[AbaliskInfinite]

That's the expectations of the playerbase. Not really DE's fault.

Welp, our expectations failed. And our experience isn't good either. The system just isn't that fun for most of the player base.

[Munchies668]

Having the rails are pointless. Contesting them is pointless. Majority of the alliances that contest a 0% rail are also promising 0% which is redundant.

Just be happy that every 3 days you can play DS with 0% tax. deathsnacks.com/wf/index.html<--So you don't have to bother logging in to check for contested rails.

[Aggh]

Having the rails are pointless. Contesting them is pointless. Majority of the alliances that contest a 0% rail are also promising 0% which is redundant.

Just be happy that every 3 days you can play DS with 0% tax. deathsnacks.com/wf/index.html<--So you don't have to bother logging in to check for contested rails.

 

Have fun missing the 10k battle pays on eclipse's rails.  You can rush conflict missions in ~45 seconds, it's easily the fastest way to grind credits in the game right now :|

 

 

Let's face it....the dark sectors thing is kind of a flop so far. I thought U13 would bring people (who got bored) back to warframe but I'm not so sure it did. I'm sure DE can and will make improvements to the dark sectors. 

22k concurrent on steam says it did.  Before u13  warframe was peaking ~12-16k.  The game hit it's all time concurrent player high (just under 27k concurrent players) on the sunday after u13 launched.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Aggh

[Blatantfool]

That logic is rejected. Solar rails is the most half baked release in the history of Warframe. SR needs pulled and overhauled already. 

 

 That logic is proven to be very, very accurate by the fact that it is happening in-game even right now.

 

 Dark Sectors just need work. There needs to be more reason to care about the outcome between clans on a personal level.

 

I agree with Mythblaze

 

If 2 of the reasons are essentially 'cause people are &#036;&amp;*^s' and the other 2 don't really add anything to the game or lore it's not been well thought out...

 

You can keep saying that, but honestly it's acting exactly the way it should. Half of the drama people are suffering over the whole thing is invented here on the forums. The rest is caused by issues with the system that can be remedied just fine.

 

 Dark Sectors are not there to be the communities free XP boost grind locations. They are there to be fought over. 

[koopagon]

 Dark Sectors are not there to be the communities free XP boost grind locations. They are there to be fought over. 

if only more people understood this...

[Speary]

 And it is easy for the attackers to get away with just saying "LOL 0% IF WE WIN!" because that's what the onlookers are interested in seeing.

 

 They'd put themselves at a potential disadvantage if they broad casted the intent to replace a taxless rail with a taxed one.

 

 Hell, If I were in the position of running the show for those messages/taxes I'd probably lie for the sake of making sure that for the duration of the contest my clan looks equal in all ways to the rail we want to replace. Not because I think this will make you support the imaginary rail I was sponsoring - but because I know that when people who're in the position of being outside looking inwards see my 0% rail vs their 0% rail and both clans have the same battlepay the likliness of anyone interfering is low.

 

 After all, why would pubbie players support either side? Negligible battle pay teamed with both clans essentially pledging to charge (or not charge) the same rate means that no matter who wins or loses you (Read:The player outside the conflict) benefit the same from a Farming angle AND you don't benefit at all for helping either side.

 

 This sort of situation would be advantageous for me as the aggressor. I wouldn't be attacking if my clan didn't want that rail. I know my guys would be up for putting their name in the stars. We have reason to win. And I'd have essentially denied outsiders a reason to care. So now it'd be my clan versus their, more or less.  With both sides being identical pubbies are pretty likely to support both sides of the conflict at just about the same rate. The idea that the difference in pub support would be a game changer is less likely.

1) When you say "pub", what are you referring to? In games with a competitive aspect like TF2 and CS:GO, pub means a public server, e.g. one that does not run mods specified for tournament play. Warframe is 100% pubs.

 

2) Assuming you meant "casual player" I see what you're trying to say, and it's clear you put some thought into it. Casual players with no ties to the fighting alliances don't care who wins, unless one side is offering significant battle pay or is not promising 0% taxes. What you talked about in your last post was using deceit to incentivize players to pick your rail, then screw them over with taxes. That would work for the short time that alliance's rail is up; then it would just lose to the next challenger who offered passable rewards. Not to mention the loss of trust in that alliance, which would make it hard to set up a future rail.

 

You personally have my respect for thinking about this issue, and leaving an intelligent reply to help explain things. You and I agree on everything we've talked about; the only difference is that you have the patience to accept these issues while I prefer to challenge them. Clans who lie should be held accountable by the players, even if they are offering more reward money. Maybe I'm too much of an idealist.

 

Have fun missing the 10k battle pays on eclipse's rails.  You can rush conflict missions in ~45 seconds, it's easily the fastest way to grind credits in the game right now :|

Pluto Dark Sector Survival gives 44,000 in 5 minutes plus resources and mods, plus much more exp and rail bonuses. If you're going for credits alone you're spot on, but that's not the point of Solar Rails to me at least.

 

And when Eclipse rewards you to support their "0% rail", where do you think that reward comes from? When they lie to you and tax thousands of players 15%, who is the real winner?

[Mythblaze]

I've lost count of how many times I've heard those lines said throughout Warframe's history.

If you been active at the release of each update then you should have enough information to discern that U13 is has the most incomplete major update released to date in Warframe. 

 

 That logic is proven to be very, very accurate by the fact that it is happening in-game even right now.

 

 Dark Sectors just need work. There needs to be more reason to care about the outcome between clans on a personal level.

 

 

You can keep saying that, but honestly it's acting exactly the way it should. Half of the drama people are suffering over the whole thing is invented here on the forums. The rest is caused by issues with the system that can be remedied just fine.

 

 Dark Sectors are not there to be the communities free XP boost grind locations. They are there to be fought over. 

I still reject that hogwash. DE should have a poll about how the community feels' for the solar rails and dark sector. In game link to a poll should do nicely.  

 

Vote Options:

 

SR & DS need work?

SR & DS fine as they are?

SR & DS need pulled and violently rebuilt?

[Blatantfool]

I still reject that hogwash. DE should have a poll about how the community feels' for the solar rails and dark sector. In game link to a poll should do nicely.  

 

Vote Options:

 

SR & DS need work?

SR & DS fine as they are?

SR & DS need pulled and violently rebuilt?

 

 You rejecting it doesn't mean crap. Honestly, outside of these forums, the majority of the people I see talking about it only consider the issue either inconvenient or just don't seem to care (likely figuring DE will just fix it).

 

 Polls are also crap. They should fix it instead of letting the issue sit for even longer as the community makes up its mind whether it wants to be coddled. Putting an entire gameplay feature on a limb because of that chunk of players who hate having to learn new gameplay facets is stupid. Fixes are more important.

 

 The truth is right out in the open.

 

 Yes it needs work.

 No it isn't fine.

 No it doesn't need to be pulled. Nut up or get out of the way so people who aren't as sensitive can give feedback that'll help make this work for everyone. Sitting around insisting it can't work or repeating "It's broke." in a loop isn't contributing nothing we don't already have mountains of in stock here on the forums.

[DJ_Redwire]

I still reject that hogwash. DE should have a poll about how the community feels' for the solar rails and dark sector. In game link to a poll should do nicely.  

 

Vote Options:

 

SR & DS need work?

SR & DS fine as they are?

SR & DS need pulled and violently rebuilt?

 

Yes because a nondescript, minuscule link in the lobby to a simple pole that most people will either ignore, not see, or dramatize will definitely yield strong and conclusive statistical information to make some sort of broad assumption about how a community of 7 million players feels about something they likely don't feel anything about.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

 Dark Sectors are not there to be the communities free XP boost grind locations. They are there to be fought over. 

 

if only more people understood this...

 

If only there was a FRICKEN REASON to fight over them.  As  it stands, there's really no benefit whatsoever to owning them.  The taxes get recycled into the rails for the most part, and those that do not STILL ARE NOT IMPORTANT ITEMS (read items that aren't super common) for research or ANYTHING for a clan..

 

THIS is the problem with Solar Rails, there's no reason to deploy one, apart from &#036;&amp;*^ing other players over for two days at a time.

[Blatantfool]

If only there was a FRICKEN REASON to fight over them.  As  it stands, there's really no benefit whatsoever to owning them.  The taxes get recycled into the rails for the most part, and those that do not STILL ARE NOT IMPORTANT ITEMS (read items that aren't super common) for research or ANYTHING for a clan..

 

THIS is the problem with Solar Rails, there's no reason to deploy one, apart from &#036;&amp;*^ing other players over for two days at a time.

 

 Agreed. This is one of the factors most in need of fixing.

[Munchies668]

It's funny because everyone wins when DS isn't contested, everyone loses(including the attacking alliance) when it is contested. In most cases it's actually more of a burden to hold the node because their is member tax which tax only the members of the alliance. 

If you look only 2-4 nodes are usually contested, every other planet is barely below 98%(meaning no one is running them, even the alliances them self.)

[Aggh]

1) When you say "pub", what are you referring to? In games with a competitive aspect like TF2 and CS:GO, pub means a public server, e.g. one that does not run mods specified for tournament play. Warframe is 100% pubs.

 

2) Assuming you meant "casual player" I see what you're trying to say, and it's clear you put some thought into it. Casual players with no ties to the fighting alliances don't care who wins, unless one side is offering significant battle pay or is not promising 0% taxes. What you talked about in your last post was using deceit to incentivize players to pick your rail, then screw them over with taxes. That would work for the short time that alliance's rail is up; then it would just lose to the next challenger who offered passable rewards. Not to mention the loss of trust in that alliance, which would make it hard to set up a future rail.

 

You personally have my respect for thinking about this issue, and leaving an intelligent reply to help explain things. You and I agree on everything we've talked about; the only difference is that you have the patience to accept these issues while I prefer to challenge them. Clans who lie should be held accountable by the players, even if they are offering more reward money. Maybe I'm too much of an idealist.

 

Pluto Dark Sector Survival gives 44,000 in 5 minutes plus resources and mods, plus much more exp and rail bonuses. If you're going for credits alone you're spot on, but that's not the point of Solar Rails to me at least.

 

And when Eclipse rewards you to support their "0% rail", where do you think that reward comes from? When they lie to you and tax thousands of players 15%, who is the real winner?

Pluto dark sector survival gives 10k in 5 minutes unless you're trying to say that you get 34k in 5 minutes worth of pick ups which is pure bullS#&$.  Not only is that not nearly enough time for that much in credit pickups, dark sectors actually have lower credit and mod drop rates because of the higher resource drop rate.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Aggh

[ImperiusAiE]

Eclipse alliance as an example claim to offer 0% to win and then after they win they set a tax above 0%. That's understandable to challenge that alliance for the solar rail. When it comes to 0% vs 0% and both alliances plan to keep to 0% then it makes no sense.

 

As a general rule if an alliance promises 0% and then breaks that promise. From then on I'll always help any alliance against them.

Personally I always fight for Eclipse. They tend to offer the best battle pay, which as it happens is all I care about.

[Speary]

Pluto dark sector survival gives 10k in 5 minutes unless you're trying to say that you get 34k in 5 minutes worth of pick ups which is pure bullS#&$.  Not only is that not nearly enough time for that much in credit pickups, dark sectors actually have lower credit and mod drop rates because of the higher resource drop rate.

I didn't say pickups. Contrary to the wiki, 44,000 has been the actual mission reward with credit booster active.

[DMan]

Because its the hype that surrounds the release of every new game mechanic.

[p8ragon]

I've played a couple of these now - at the moment someone's offering 10,000 credits to defend their rail (can't remember where) and there's other warframes shooting back... I never noticed this before.

 

Are these actually players from the opposing side or bots?

 

Reason for the question is that they seem to die spectacularly quickly... so if someone can clarify I'd appreciate it.

 

Thanks 

Tenno spectres. Bots.

[Triburos]

 Dark Sectors are not there to be the communities free XP boost grind locations. They are there to be fought over. 

If that's the case.... Why put XP boosters on the DS missions? And before you say "incentive for pubs", hear out my idea.

 

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that DS are literally just there for clans to fight over. Well, let me try to benefit your idea. But first;

 

In that case; there wouldn't be large EXP rewards for those who don't give a damn about clans flaunting their E-Peen Rails.

 

Infact, clans at the moment aren't even FIGHTING over rails. Nono- know what's happening?

 

People are fighting for them.Just so that they can enjoy the Dark Sectors. No one cares about their peen rail. And why would these people want to play in the Dark Sectors?

 

Because of the EXP bonuses.

 

If DE really wanted to show that these areas are just ment to be fought over by clans, they wouldn't have placed missions with bonuses behind each rail. They would have either:

 

*Made the solar rail missions just regular missions for clans who care about node owning.

 

Or

 

*Made a solar rail owner get revenue from ALL missions in a planet they're set on. If an opposing rail is on the second node of a planet? They're losing profit. This means there would be more 'meaningful' fights amongst solar rails.

 

Imagine you own one rail on Uranus (hurr). Yer raking in revenue from all missions played in Uranus. Then comes along another clan who takes the second node and it starts leeching some of your revenue That would spark actual conflict between clans.

 

 

Now you can say "Oh but then pubs won't play to benefit the clans because there would be no incentive to. That's why DS have EXP bonuses; so pubs will be willing to fight for clans to make conflict."

 

Exactly. And this is what I'm getting at; clans aren't fighting over solar rails at the moment like you're saying.

No no. It's a @(*()$ vote. A popularity vote.

The Solar Rail with the highest battle pay or best promises wins! There is barely any fighting between clans. People are just trying to burn through a rail just so they can play on a Dark Sector.

Now, while I disagree with you saying that DS aren't grind spots, let's assume that what you're saying is true in DE's eyes; they want these areas to be mainly for clan fights, not exp grind locations.

If they wanted to keep Solar Rails purely a clan thing without pubs leeching off of an exp mission, they should have made it so that ONLY the clan members themselves can defend their rails, whilst attacking the opposition. THAT'S an actual fight between rails. At the moment, clans don't have to do anything to 'win' a rail other than type a comment. Battle Pay at the moment is nothing, so I hardly count that as incentive.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Triburos

[Aggh]

I didn't say pickups. Contrary to the wiki, 44,000 has been the actual mission reward with credit booster active.

Lol so you need to pay plat to keep up with the credits earned from decent battle pay, and it's all reliant on a bug with credit boosters and dark sector mission rewards.  Clearly battle play from conflicts is worthelss :|

Edited April 19, 2014 by Aggh

[Speary]

Lol so you need to pay plat to keep up with the credits earned from decent battle pay, and it's all reliant on a bug with credit boosters and dark sector mission rewards.  Clearly battle play from conflicts is worthelss :|

No, what's worthless is picking an alliance who lies to you about offering 0% tax, on the ground that it helps you grind for credits better. Believe it or not, some people play the game for fun.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Speary

[Aggh]

No, what's worthless is picking an alliance who lies to you about offering 0% tax, on the ground that it helps you grind for credits better. Believe it or not, some people play the game for fun.

Who cares if they lied?  All I care about are the credits I get out of them and the fact that they're actually capable of ending a conflict in less than 48 hours.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Aggh

[NetSlayer]

Why must we take over 0% tax rails?

I must Speary... I must..

It is my... Destiny

[Speary]

Who cares if they lied?  All I care about are the credits I get out of them and the fact that they're actually capable of ending a conflict before the timer ends.

I care if they lied. I'm not the kind of person who would participate in a game feature where people trade their credibility for credits.

 

View my OP and see if it says anything about grinding. This thread is about (honest) alliances fighting for who gets to set up their 0% tax rail, not whatever you think it's about.