Ossarian Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 -Snip- Yes, I agree that owning a large portion of the Dark Sectors allows them to have some pretty ridiculous credit income (really, 10k per run? They must have huge credit vaults), but I disagree with the 50% tax part. While it will allow them to put up some crazy battle pay offers, it really comes down to what the community decides. If 50% tax becomes a reality and people continue to fight for Eclipse, then the community has spoken. Honestly, I think the only thing that could oust Eclipse right now is either another massive alliance that can compete battle pay-wise, or if they screw up and put the taxes high enough to cause the community to turn on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentFears Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I believe it is in fact the opposite. By holding multiple nodes and growing, it sets the stage for absolute control. Just like in reality, better to ensure market competition then leave yourself at the mercy of profit. Ok, so a clan really wants to compete with Eclipse. Match them point for point, set the field at an even level, lets say 50%. Now, because of the huge tax income for eclipse, and the fact that the vast majority of it's player base is active, it's credit pool is huge. From this point Eclipse could set the battle pay to twice or even three times that of anythng a competing clan can offer and still not break the bank. As the mercenary persona is dominant on warframe, there is no reason for a freelance player to side with the challenger. So yet again, the time, credits and rail of the challenger goes to waste. There is a point where it will become impossible, and we are nearing that point. Now a lil idia you may decide to follow. Instead of jumping on the T-rex why not start small ? Get few sectors tax them - build power - go face the fainal boss. You know like how real world works - you dont go and take Microsoft down from your moms basment - you grow before you start to compete whit the biggest baddes boy outhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Not really. Eclipse is an Alliance made up of a bunch of different clans, two of which are big scorers. Their 'domination' exists mostly because the people who have to deal with them are doing an incredibly crappy job organizing. Grineer are NPCs. This, right here. There's not anything innately wrong with Eclipse holding that many Dark Sectors. Honestly, unless they start bringing the taxes up to ridiculous amounts, Eclipse will continue to hold those nodes for the simple reason that they're offering a lot of battle pay. So yes, any competitors are going to have to outmatch that pay. In other words, they have to be really serious about taking it. I tried to get my Alliance to help support those lesser clans in order to curb Eclipse's power, the overwhelming response was "why should we care? we're not fighting them. DE needs to do something about it, they need to." They don't understand how this will play out if Eclipse is allowed to carry on like they are, nor do the majority of people, or that WE are the ones responsible for our well-being with the Dark Sectors, not DE. Monopolies, people, that's what we're looking at - and if history taught us anything they will lead to no good if they are not stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I tried to get my Alliance to help support those lesser clans in order to curb Eclipse's power, the overwhelming response was "why should we care? we're not fighting them. DE needs to do something about it, they need to." They don't understand how this will play out if Eclipse is allowed to carry on like they are, nor do the majority of people, or that WE are the ones responsible for our well-being with the Dark Sectors, not DE. Monopolies, people, that's what we're looking at - and if history taught us anything they will lead to no good if they are not stopped. Call out your clan mates for being idiots. DE doesn't need to be and wont be doing crap about it. Eclipse isn't cheating to hold those territories. They own that space legit. So only someone who beats them legit will replace them. The reality of it all is very simple. Any Clan or Alliance that doesn't like Eclipse should be trying to beat Eclipse. Take them on. Beat them fair. If your clan can't do that then you come back when you can. Until then, Eclipse deserves all the space they are able to properly defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Call out your clan mates for being idiots. DE doesn't need to be and wont be doing crap about it. Eclipse isn't cheating to hold those territories. They own that space legit. So only someone who beats them legit will replace them. The reality of it all is very simple. Any Clan or Alliance that doesn't like Eclipse should be trying to beat Eclipse. Take them on. Beat them fair. If your clan can't do that then you come back when you can. Until then, Eclipse deserves all the space they are able to properly defend. I've tried, as far as I can tell they've flat-out ignored me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I've tried, as far as I can tell they've flat-out ignored me. When you get down to it, they're only screwing themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garompa Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Sorry to interrupt this thread but this is of epic importance... I wanted to talk to Eclipse but I can't find Aria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedant Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 http://img.pandawhale.com/post-8312-What-is-best-in-life-To-crush-B2Qi.jpeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Now this is what I call real battlepay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oizen Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) I like how no one is noticing how many lies Eclipse as told already. 0% rails became low rails Low became 20% Despite owning so many rails at 20%, their battle pay is limited only to what people put against them. They dont give good credit rates, they just offer slightly better, still S#&$ pay off rates. The only time they'd put up a decent ammount of credits, is when someone opposes them with a decent ammount of credits. Basically Eclipse is full of BS Edited April 21, 2014 by Oizen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-LittleSnow Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I would not mind if eclipse held two, maybe three dark sectors. That's fine. They could charge all they like and I(and many others) would be happy. However, they own 8. Almost a third of all available dark sectors. In addition, they posses both nodes on Jupiter and Saturn, this gives them the power to do what they please, whenever they please. If they wanted to set the resource tax on Jupiter to 50%, they could do it, there are no competitors to offer a better deal, it is either eclipse or nothing. What happens when DE introduces other effects into the dark sectors? In it’s current state, eclipse can dictate whatever they will, and there is nobody that can compete with them. And it’s a self perpetuating cycle. Eclipse entices freelance players to support them by offering ridiculously high battle pay which has only been obtained through the means of freelance players blindly running missions in Eclipse’s nodes and taking the 20% tax rate set by them(which is approximately 4000 credits per mission). Either the competing clan must match Eclipse’s battle pay point for point, which is already very difficult, otherwise they might as well not bother. In their current position, Eclipse is a blight upon the game and I believe we will all rue the day we let them take control. Dude, the only node that has more than 50% is at Sedna (Armana) which was used as a "donation" node for alliance as there are no valuable resources there. When u guys were enjoying 20% tax on Jupiter (Senai), we, the alliance members are paying 75% tax for the rail repairs. Seriously dude, 7k-20% = 5.6k credits. What can you do with 1.4k credits? Buy yourself a nice mega bundle? Seriously, grow up and get out of your mom's basement. I like how no one is noticing how many lies Eclipse as told already. 0% rails became low rails Low became 20% Despite owning so many rails at 20%, their battle pay is limited only to what people put against them. They dont give good credit rates, they just offer slightly better, still S#&$ pay off rates. The only time they'd put up a decent ammount of credits, is when someone opposes them with a decent ammount of credits. Basically Eclipse is full of BS How about this, if u find us full of bullS#&$, form your own alliance and contest us :).. ONLY THEN will you know how hard it is to maintain a rail. We gave up our time for void missions to defend our rails and here you are crying over 20% tax? Wow, does that 20% really hurt you that much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Q--AFKrasul Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) I am from eclipse, and I can tell you that we can only hope for the public's support. All the credits we earn go back to the public in the form of battle pay. To the people who think we are winning because we have more money. Well this is not true. We are winning because we have the best and most devoted players in our alliance. All the damage we have done this past week, 90 - 80% of the damage/runs came from our own ranks, from our own players while 10% of the damage/runs can from the public through battle pay. This is a fact. We have studied it. All I can say is thanks to all Eclipse members for grinding out results, for running endless dark sectors in the hope of victory. Edited April 21, 2014 by akrasul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direcyphre Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 It's all so intriguing. Personally, I am all for Eclipse because they've got it all down, and I'm not worried about resource tributes or other silly things. With millions of credits, I'm certainly not losing anything even if going to a note with credit taxes. The yield is already high, and I don't even have a use for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 why bring dominance when you can profit off NOT bothering with Dark Sector... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Now this is what I call real battlepay Haha! Warlord High Council are talking like they want to win! I love it! THIS is the attitude to have. Little friendly smack talk and some equal competitive footing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourBusDriver Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) This, right here. There's not anything innately wrong with Eclipse holding that many Dark Sectors. Honestly, unless they start bringing the taxes up to ridiculous amounts, Eclipse will continue to hold those nodes for the simple reason that they're offering a lot of battle pay. So yes, any competitors are going to have to outmatch that pay. In other words, they have to be really serious about taking it. I'm all for a single clan holding down everything so long as there is no tax. Edited April 21, 2014 by YourBusDriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourBusDriver Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I believe it is in fact the opposite. By holding multiple nodes and growing, it sets the stage for absolute control. Just like in reality, better to ensure market competition then leave yourself at the mercy of profit. Ok, so a clan really wants to compete with Eclipse. Match them point for point, set the field at an even level, lets say 50%. Now, because of the huge tax income for eclipse, and the fact that the vast majority of it's player base is active, it's credit pool is huge. From this point Eclipse could set the battle pay to twice or even three times that of anythng a competing clan can offer and still not break the bank. As the mercenary persona is dominant on warframe, there is no reason for a freelance player to side with the challenger. So yet again, the time, credits and rail of the challenger goes to waste. There is a point where it will become impossible, and we are nearing that point. I find the idea of a rail monopoly hilarious. In some regards, the current system is truing out to be a real train wreck. Although, if a monopoly were to ensue a boycott would be in order to dislodge tyranny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourBusDriver Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) why bring dominance when you can profit off NOT bothering with Dark Sector... Yea, my clan is very flippant about implementing a rail because they are huge wastes of money. If we want to get things done around the Dojo all we have to do is go farm Tranquil Cleave for plat... like holy crap! We can raise 1000+ plat in a single day selling off near useless mods! I understand DE is adamant about having us populate the Dark Sectors with some competition, but the tred seems to be driving away from it... which is disappointing. As hilarious as it is to see something like this fly flat on its face - the Dark Sectors are a neat idea, and I wish there was a better way to conduct them. Edited April 21, 2014 by YourBusDriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazyflame Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'm all for a single clan holding down everything so long as there is no tax. Well, I can tell you a HUGE problem with that: "They can't set 0% taxes if people keep wrecking their Rails". If you read carefully, they said that they need the credits for repairs. So I don't think that Utopia will come to fruition if we ALL as community decide to do so. (This comes for all the Occupants, they are not setting it to 0% taxes because they have to maintain the Rails). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lediard Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 0% taxes are plain and simple not viable, it makes whomever owns the rail have to pay for them out of pocket. Every rail will be contested constantly for a very long time, every clan or alliance wants a piece of the system. Any alliance or clan who swears 0% taxes on credits is either naive or being manipulative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourBusDriver Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Well, I can tell you a HUGE problem with that: "They can't set 0% taxes if people keep wrecking their Rails". If you read carefully, they said that they need the credits for repairs. So I don't think that Utopia will come to fruition if we ALL as community decide to do so. (This comes for all the Occupants, they are not setting it to 0% taxes because they have to maintain the Rails). 0% taxes are plain and simple not viable, it makes whomever owns the rail have to pay for them out of pocket. Every rail will be contested constantly for a very long time, every clan or alliance wants a piece of the system. Any alliance or clan who swears 0% taxes on credits is either naive or being manipulative. Solution... Boycott their rails, so they just waste money. Edited April 21, 2014 by YourBusDriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourBusDriver Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Although, boycotting could turn this whole situation really ugly... Edited April 21, 2014 by YourBusDriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaddun Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Dude, the only node that has more than 50% is at Sedna (Armana) which was used as a "donation" node for alliance as there are no valuable resources there. When u guys were enjoying 20% tax on Jupiter (Senai), we, the alliance members are paying 75% tax for the rail repairs. Seriously dude, 7k-20% = 5.6k credits. What can you do with 1.4k credits? Buy yourself a nice mega bundle? Seriously, grow up and get out of your mom's basement. You clearly did not read my post. An absence of competition provides power to the occupant. Think what would happen if Eclipse owned all of the nodes. They would certainly not become beneficent and set a 0% tax on everything. They are nothing if not intelligent and would immediately set high credit tax and a resource tax just slightly under 30%. You cannot do anything about it, try to challenge them and I can guarantee they will smite you down with a ludicrous battle pay. As for your tax input, that’s your choice, it’s what you pay for having so many rails to sustain. Either deal with it or leave Eclipse. As for the 20% tax rate,. You didn’t read my post, yet again. While it may seem low now, think of what it might be like should Eclipse have no competition. As for your ad hominem attack, you play exactly the same game, doing exactly the same thing. Those who live in glass houses should not throw rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DietEbolaCola Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Just wait until Eclipse throws down Houses and Hotels on their properties. Things gonna get crazy then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tograk Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Just wait until Eclipse throws down Houses and Hotels on their properties. Things gonna get crazy then! Yup! I've heard they already made hidden* GoGo Club on Earth! *Hidden in the jungle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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