To Those Complaining About The Inc Trin Nerf..

[WARLOCKE]

First, im not for nerfing Trinity. Unlike a vocal minority that has surfaced in the community, I do not consider myself a dev or pretend to know how to balance a game I did not make.

 

Now that is out of the way. Lets be honest fora  second. If any one did not understand that a blessing nerf was incoming 6+ months ago is either a new player or blind and mute. When Rhino got changed from a tank/melee frame to a CC/support role the biggest change was to Iron Skin and how it worked. It was clear DE was not happy with invulnerability in warframe.  Iron Skin was destroyed, many cried, many laughed some gloated.

 

Fast forward 5 months later and now Frost is on the chopping block, and what gets the biggest change? Snow Globe, going from full Invuln to a damage shield. However the stated reason for this change was different from the Great Rhino Curbing of 2013. This time the reasoning was that Frost was to much of a must have frame for defense missions.

 

Altho the reasons have changed, the fact remains. Invuln is not going to be a feature in this game. Period. Trin players, feel lucky you went this long with blessing in its current form. I know that is little consolation but I do hope they give the frame a redo that was better than poor Frosts, talk about a extinct frame.......

 

And before anyone brings up Valk, it was obvious Hysteria is power in transition and was never meant to stay how was introduced. Valk is a work in progress and a bit of experimentation. I wouldnt get used to her having invuln for much longer either.

 

 

 

Point of this thread? Stop acting like you did not see this coming and how the mean ole devs have blind sided support players.

[VMTR-Striker]

Well Scott did say he wasn't going to nerf Trinity to bad.

 

Also, I still love my Frost Prime and it does a wonderful job with Snow Globe, It still protects me and does what it is suppose to do.

[Omega224]

valkyrs invulnerability will likely be changed to do what it was originally intended to do which is if you didn't kill everyone in the area it kills you at the end

[Silraed]

The problem is that they have waited so long to do anything about it or even comment on it. If they had taken action sooner there wouldn't have been such a big deal over it, and even if there had been it would have blown over by now.

[Archistopheles]

Loki will remain the same until after Loki Prime Access sales hit, then he will be nerfed as well.

[bejuizb]

If they do something to my girl....I will be so damn sad. 

[.Talia.]

Loki will remain the same until after Loki Prime Access sales hit, then he will be nerfed as well.

 

This makes so much sense.

 

Loki will be the next Prime. They will never nerf Trinity and then release Trinity Prime, even though some people are claiming that its the time for a female prime (And they are right)

 

if they nerf Blessing, then they must nerf Hysteria too. Hysteria is a highly overpowered ult despite what people say about valkyr being bad (n00bs) she is actually one of the most OP frames, even without hysteria.

Edited April 26, 2014 by RexSol

[(PSN)friedricetheman]

Well Scott did say he wasn't going to nerf Trinity to bad.

Also, I still love my Frost Prime and it does a wonderful job with Snow Globe, It still protects me and does what it is suppose to do.

You are more of a mid level content kind of guy, aren't you?

Ever tried A naked snow globe (no Steel Fiber or Strength mods) on T3 void Survival at Wave 40+?

Edited April 26, 2014 by (PS4)friedricetheman

[VoidPunch]

Ever tried A naked snow globe (no Steel Fiber or Strength mods) on T3 void Survival at Wave 40+?

Why would ever think about doing this in the first place? This is a stupid argument, any power unmodded for is not good at high levels. If you want snow globe to be good then mod for it.

[KibaWesker]

You are more of a mid level content kind of guy, aren't you?

Ever tried A naked snow globe (no Steel Fiber or Strength mods) on T3 void Survival at Wave 40+?

Why would you do that. your literally ASKING to get yourself beaten

[Shadow-Blades]

You are more of a mid level content kind of guy, aren't you?

Ever tried A naked snow globe (no Steel Fiber or Strength mods) on T3 void Survival at Wave 40+?

 

Ever tried making several snow globes at once to gain pretty much the same effect?

[Eirshy]

I am impressed by the OP for his understanding that, yeah, if this incoming nerf surprises you, you're kinda an idiot.

 

Why am I impressed?

 

Because he also seems to think Rhino isn't still a godlike frame that, when asked about dieing, replies "You mean that thing that my enemies do?"

 

Snipped for unrelated-to-topic rant.

Yes, high level enemies chew through everything and everyone. With all iframes being removed, there will be no exception to that.

 

However, look more to content you would normally encounter. Rhino is the only frame that really does not care which Nightmare Mode mutator he gets. Iron Skin lets him have a shield in no-shield mode. Iron Skin's infinite duration means that whenever you manage to scrape up the energy for it in no-energy mode, you can use it. He's got really high shields and armor for Vampire mode. And both the agrav and timer mutators are basically a joke.

 

Look back at those high level runs. Even in the 40's, Iron Skin with Vangaurd lowering its durability and Intensify raising it lasts quite a long while so long as you don't hold still. As an added bonus, it being up even imparts knockdown/stagger immunity, making it perfect for charging a Heavy Gunner- which resets their gorgon's spooling. And when you do finally drop IS, you still have a base 150 shields and an armor rating in the top three to make your health less juicy. If you play cautiously, you'll be well into the 50's or even 60's before you're in any actual danger- I know this because I can play my Banshee in the 50's and not be too worried about dieing. But then, I actually use cover on her. On Rhino I just charge in and/or slowstrafe to aim from wherever I'm at.

 

 

Rhino went from God to Demigod with the nerf, and they even buffed IS a bit after the nerf because people whined. Hell, back in Damage 1.0, his ult was on par with, if not outright BETTER than Nova's. His ignored armor and outright disables everything for 8 seconds.

 

 

Really wish people would wake up and realize that Rhino is and has always been the safest frame in the game to play. Hell, Vanguard helm even let you fix his only weakness (he's slow) without needing to mod it out.

[GSDAkatsuki]

I am impressed by the OP for his understanding that, yeah, if this incoming nerf surprises you, you're kinda an idiot.

 

Why am I impressed?

 

Because he also seems to think Rhino isn't still a godlike frame that, when asked about dieing, replies "You mean that thing that my enemies do?"

 

Snipped for unrelated-to-topic rant.

Yes, high level enemies chew through everything and everyone. With all iframes being removed, there will be no exception to that.

 

However, look more to content you would normally encounter. Rhino is the only frame that really does not care which Nightmare Mode mutator he gets. Iron Skin lets him have a shield in no-shield mode. Iron Skin's infinite duration means that whenever you manage to scrape up the energy for it in no-energy mode, you can use it. He's got really high shields and armor for Vampire mode. And both the agrav and timer mutators are basically a joke.

 

Look back at those high level runs. Even in the 40's, Iron Skin with Vangaurd lowering its durability and Intensify raising it lasts quite a long while so long as you don't hold still. As an added bonus, it being up even imparts knockdown/stagger immunity, making it perfect for charging a Heavy Gunner- which resets their gorgon's spooling. And when you do finally drop IS, you still have a base 150 shields and an armor rating in the top three to make your health less juicy. If you play cautiously, you'll be well into the 50's or even 60's before you're in any actual danger- I know this because I can play my Banshee in the 50's and not be too worried about dieing. But then, I actually use cover on her. On Rhino I just charge in and/or slowstrafe to aim from wherever I'm at.

 

 

Rhino went from God to Demigod with the nerf, and they even buffed IS a bit after the nerf because people whined. Hell, back in Damage 1.0, his ult was on par with, if not outright BETTER than Nova's. His ignored armor and outright disables everything for 8 seconds.

 

 

Really wish people would wake up and realize that Rhino is and has always been the safest frame in the game to play. Hell, Vanguard helm even let you fix his only weakness (he's slow) without needing to mod it out.

Main issue I always had with rhino was how early he appeared for farming. Should have been pushed back to later solar system to make players earn having a stronger frame in later content. Progression like much of everything in this game is not properly thought out.

[Darkjackal_2031]

Also, I still love my Frost Prime and it does a wonderful job with Snow Globe, It still protects me and does what it is suppose to do.

 

Ever tried A naked snow globe (no Steel Fiber or Strength mods) on T3 void Survival at Wave 40+?

First quote: I still use my frost a lot, too. He may not be the ultimate defense master, but he can still get the job done.

 

Second quote: Why would anyone even think of doing that? What point would it serve? there is a reason we have mods-so abilities and weapons are not worthless later in-game.

[Eirshy]

Main issue I always had with rhino was how early he appeared for farming. Should have been pushed back to later solar system to make players earn having a stronger frame in later content. Progression like much of everything in this game is not properly thought out.

 

Agreed, swapping him and Excal in terms of farming location would likely be a very good idea.

 

Don't get me wrong, as much as I'm annoyed by how OP Rhino is, I'd rather he remain as such until more scaling problems this game has are fixed. I mean, things like Nightmare Mode being more akin to fake difficulty than to real difficulty due to the RNG on the mutators really needs to be adressed (Rhino's the only frame that has an easy answer to every single mutator as I explained), enemies STILL need to stop having scaling armor (or we need armor bypass back), enemies probably also need to stop aimbotting so bad at higher levels (Wow, did that lv49 Heavy Gunner really land every single bullet on a dime at 30m?), etc. And I'm kinda more for making other frames just better at their specialties than for actually nerfing Rhino out of his "At Worst I'm Second Best" status.

 

But yeah, moving his access to much later would likely be a very good plan.

[Rafarix]

Now that is out of the way. Lets be honest fora  second. If any one did not understand that a blessing nerf was incoming 6+ months ago is either a new player or blind and mute. When Rhino got changed from a tank/melee frame to a CC/support role the biggest change was to Iron Skin and how it worked. It was clear DE was not happy with invulnerability in warframe.  Iron Skin was destroyed, many cried, many laughed some gloated.

 

-snip-

 

Point of this thread? Stop acting like you did not see this coming and how the mean ole devs have blind sided support players.

I agree when as you said way back when Iron Skin was nerfed DE did say they wanted to remove "god-mode" from the game. Many people wondered why Rhino was targeted first over trinity since her blessing is arguably better then old iron skin. Chances are that he is more used compared to trinity.

 

Right now DE needs to find a good way to balance Trinity when they readjust Blessing so we do not have a repeat of the chaos Iron Skin went through. They did a better job with frost snow globe nerf, though it was pretty rough.

[holyicon]

If Blessing is changed to a Heal + Temp Damage Shield or Swaps the % with Link I'll be just fine with it.

The point being Trinity has no outwardly aggressive skills. So a purely healing skill at 100en is hardly economical.
((It would be if people played TACTICALLY, but they don't))

As a Trinity player I actually disagreed with how Iron Skin was changed.
I would have made it absorb 90% damage for X damage based on rank/power strength.
And the damage that got through would be stored up as a boost to Charge, Stomp, etc...
((but I digress))

Like ANY game, there are players that abuse game mechanics and Min-Max towards a single strength. Nearly ALL frames have these oversights and Trinity is no different.
But I'm really sick of people saying "OP" in a Co-Op game. If you're so afraid of a PUG where yee-Random-Trinity is cycling Blessing. Then play Invite Only. if you still can't stand the idea of OTHER players who are in a group benefiting from somebody abusing Blessing, then you seriously need to reexamine your emotional investments.

Remember, just because Trinity player exists, it does not force a change into how YOU play if you're not on the map with them. HOWEVER, because players *@##$ about Trinity, it WILL affect each and every Trinity player regardless if they have abused Blessing or not.

[ThePoopHunter]

First, im not for nerfing Trinity. Unlike a vocal minority that has surfaced in the community, I do not consider myself a dev or pretend to know how to balance a game I did not make.

+1 just for this.

[Wolfstorm18]

But I'm really sick of people saying "OP" in a Co-Op game. If you're so afraid of a PUG where yee-Random-Trinity is cycling Blessing. Then play Invite Only. if you still can't stand the idea of OTHER players who are in a group benefiting from somebody abusing Blessing, then you seriously need to reexamine your emotional investments. 

 

 

Closed the topic. 

 

Nerfers go home. 

[Darkmoone1]

You also forgot how Vauban had Bastille to freeze the advance of infested and was changed to hold only a certain amount of enemies because of this.

 

 

...But yeah, I agree.

[GeoffFromAccounting]

Like ANY game, there are players that abuse game mechanics and Min-Max towards a single strength. Nearly ALL frames have these oversights and Trinity is no different.

But I'm really sick of people saying "OP" in a Co-Op game. If you're so afraid of a PUG where yee-Random-Trinity is cycling Blessing. Then play Invite Only. if you still can't stand the idea of OTHER players who are in a group benefiting from somebody abusing Blessing, then you seriously need to reexamine your emotional investments.

Remember, just because Trinity player exists, it does not force a change into how YOU play if you're not on the map with them. HOWEVER, because players $#*(@ about Trinity, it WILL affect each and every Trinity player regardless if they have abused Blessing or not.

 

how many people think "this is PvE Co-op, so over powered things are aloud to exist" around here? It's not healthy, as BALANCE IS NEEDED. let me point you to Volt_Creulerz document on balance and why it IS important in a PvE Co-op game

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NrbeZdVEfHF5b3sE9DNMaPWcgSWncAk1eYe87QSIiOk/edit?pli=1

 

NOTE: if Volt_Creulerz would like me to take down this link for whatever reason, he may personally PM me to take it down and I will do so

[holyicon]

how many people think "this is PvE Co-op, so over powered things are aloud to exist" around here? It's not healthy, as BALANCE IS NEEDED. let me point you to Volt_Creulerz document on balance and why it IS important in a PvE Co-op game

 

I agree, a degree of balance IS needed. And as I've said multiple times, I'll accept any changes that D.E. makes.

What I don't agree with is the validity of perceived imbalances. Having said that, I know that Blessing can (AND HAS) been abused. But there's a difference between tweaking a skill based on its use (if used normally) and tweaking it based on Abuse.

In the former, you need to look at the whole skill, and possibly even replace it. But in the latter, you only need to tweak it to take away the abuse.