To The People Whining About The Inevitable Trinity Nerf: A Reality Check.

[Azawarau]

Trinity's may grant invunerability but that doesn't mean you're invincible.

When you take no damage in a game like this youre basically invincible

 

Its not like being knocked down is going to matter most times

 

The only time it will matter is if its the trinity

 

And she takes away any need for any kind of CC or frame synergy

 

She just has it covered too well

 

2 Trinitys means no chance to fail

[KnorrSoup]

Trinity's may grant invunerability but that doesn't mean you're invincible.

 

...uhhh

Edited April 28, 2014 by KnorrSoup

[kubbi]

When you take no damage in a game like this youre basically invincible

 

Its not like being knocked down is going to matter most times

 

The only time it will matter is if its the trinity

 

And she takes away any need for any kind of CC or frame synergy

 

She just has it covered too well

 

2 Trinitys means no chance to fail

 

No. Just not taking damage doesn't mean you're invincible. Trinity grant invunerability but that doesn't cover everything. Enemies won't kill themselves. And the longer you survive the harder it gets because in that milisecond you're casting enemies can oneshot you.

 

At survival it stops at a certain point Trinity or no Trinity. Because you can't deal enough damage to kill enemies to gain life support. But having Trinity still helps a lot to get you further to that high level and experience the difficulty.

 

So what if she's covered so well? Is that not allowed? Doesn't that mean it works so well? Does there just have to be something wrong with a frame? It seems like it. Nerfers won't accept perfect frames. There have to be faults otherwise they're considered OP.

Edited April 28, 2014 by kubbi

[kubbi]

...uhhh

 

Yes. Take a look at the medic from TF2 for example. Uber grant invunerability for a short time but that doesn't mean you're invinsible. Pyro's can still airblast you away and you die from falling off.

[KnorrSoup]

So what if she's covered so well? Is that not allowed? Doesn't that mean it works so well? Does there just have to be something wrong with a frame? It seems like it. Nerfers won't accept perfect frames. There have to be faults otherwise they're considered OP.

 

That's kind of the whole point of balancing, every frame should be a different playstyle with different strengths and weaknesses. If one frame is perfect and has no faults, there's literally no point in using any other frame.

 

And unfortunately you can't die from falling off a ledge in this game.

[kubbi]

That's kind of the whole point of balancing, every frame should be a different playstyle with different strengths and weaknesses. If one frame is perfect and has no faults, there's literally no point in using any other frame.

 

And unfortunately you can't die from falling off a ledge in this game.

 

With perfect I mean the frames do what they're designed to with their own flaws itself. I don't mean like every ability is instant win button.

 

Nope but you can die from one bullet from a level 70+ enemy and from chain knockdowns to what you can do nothing about and just take it untill you get up like a 95 year old with severe atritis. Tbh DE should do something about AI so that they're actually challenging to play against and not just be huge bullet sponges. If thats fixed then no one will even care about invunerablities because it wont matter.

[Triburos]

Yes. Take a look at the medic from TF2 for example. Uber grant invunerability for a short time but that doesn't mean you're invinsible. Pyro's can still airblast you away and you die from falling off.

You're just not being serious anymore, are you?

 

There's a much greater balance wall between a 10 second invincibility mechanic, that can only be applied to two players at most, that takes minutes to recharge and has actual counters due to human enemies, than an invincibility mechanic that lasts 24, can be immediately recasted, applied to all players, and has no weaknesses because you're not playing against clever human enemies.

 

You claim that things like knockdown can be considered a weakness to it. But I say that's complete bull unless you're one of those people who's taking their invunerability for granted and is just standing in a mosh pit.

 

Did you ever think about, I dunno, retreating to higher ground? Getting on top of a crate or something? Avoiding knockdown is not hard, and it's a farcry from the weaknesses that an Ubercharge has. You don't worry about Pyros or Demomen or Soldiers STRATEGICALLY knocking you away, for example.

 

And as for getting one shot'd, it's been said before; Defense and Survival are not balanced - and never will be most likely - for our current rank and damage caps after you've been in one for awhile. DE has gone on record saying this before.

 

You're simply exploiting Trinity to reach those high waves and times. She was never designed to be a Lord and Savior of Defense and Survival.

 

If you're getting to mobs that one shot you, use some common sense and assume you just broke the sensative point of mob balance, and run to extract.

[Tsukinoki]

@kubbi

DE has stated that they are NOT balancing the game around an endless mode (which is impossible. Otherwise we could ask for a gun that deals 1 trillion damage because eventually that would be 'balanced' at very high wave/time in endless mode, and we would be right in claiming that). They have actually stated that their intended goal time is 30-40 minutes.

If you go beyond that: Good for you. But they aren't going to try to balance anything around it for the people that goes to a 6 hour survival Because that would be literally impossible to do. And if they tried what do you think would happen to the balance and FUN of 99% of the game (EG everything that isn't 6 hours into survival)?

A 28.2 second invulnerability with NO downsides and no limitations is just broken and I'm glad that they are fixing it.

Oh, and dont try claiming "it has a long cast time!" because even if trinity is killed during the cast animation everyone is still invincible and can revive her, and she'll be invincible as well. So even if it had a 5 second cast time it would still be broken as hek.

[Kartumterek]

You're just not being serious anymore, are you?

 

There's a much greater balance wall between a 10 second invincibility mechanic, that can only be applied to two players at most, that takes minutes to recharge and has actual counters due to human enemies, than an invincibility mechanic that lasts 24, can be immediately recasted, applied to all players, and has no weaknesses because you're not playing against clever human enemies.

 

You claim that things like knockdown can be considered a weakness to it. But I say that's complete bull unless you're one of those people who's taking their invunerability for granted and is just standing in a mosh pit.

 

Did you ever think about, I dunno, retreating to higher ground? Getting on top of a crate or something? Avoiding knockdown is not hard, and it's a farcry from the weaknesses that an Ubercharge has. You don't worry about Pyros or Demomen or Soldiers STRATEGICALLY knocking you away, for example.

 

And as for getting one shot'd, it's been said before; Defense and Survival are not balanced - and never will be most likely - for our current rank and damage caps after you've been in one for awhile. DE has gone on record saying this before.

 

You're simply exploiting Trinity to reach those high waves and times. She was never designed to be a Lord and Savior of Defense and Survival.

 

If you're getting to mobs that one shot you, use some common sense and assume you just broke the sensative point of mob balance, and run to extract.

 

I said in another post that the only ppl who are really mad about the pending Trinity nerf are the leaderboard and resource farming exploiters... theres no justification in playing in such a way that the only limiting factor is whether your computer blows up or not. it is impossible for anything in the game to kill you at all.

[kubbi]

You're just not being serious anymore, are you?

 

There's a much greater balance wall between a 10 second invincibility mechanic, that can only be applied to two players at most, that takes minutes to recharge and has actual counters due to human enemies, than an invincibility mechanic that lasts 24, can be immediately recasted, applied to all players, and has no weaknesses because you're not playing against clever human enemies.

 

You claim that things like knockdown can be considered a weakness to it. But I say that's complete bull unless you're one of those people who's taking their invunerability for granted and is just standing in a mosh pit.

 

Did you ever think about, I dunno, retreating to higher ground? Getting on top of a crate or something? Avoiding knockdown is not hard, and it's a farcry from the weaknesses that an Ubercharge has. You don't worry about Pyros or Demomen or Soldiers STRATEGICALLY knocking you away, for example.

 

And as for getting one shot'd, it's been said before; Defense and Survival are not balanced - and never will be most likely - for our current rank and damage caps after you've been in one for awhile. DE has gone on record saying this before.

 

You're simply exploiting Trinity to reach those high waves and times. She was never designed to be a Lord and Savior of Defense and Survival.

 

If you're getting to mobs that one shot you, use some common sense and assume you just broke the sensative point of mob balance, and run to extract.

Dude. I wasn't comparing uber with blessing. I was using it as an example to show that invunerability and invinsibility are different.

My point stands still. Blessing is strong yes but I don't consider it OP.

Trinity is designed to keep your team healthy and alive and thats what she does. If thats not her purpose then what is?

[Liminal]

My point stands still. Blessing is strong yes but I don't consider it OP.

That much is clear. However most other people (including devs) disagree.

[Quorinus]

Trinity is designed to keep your team healthy and alive and thats what she does. If thats not her purpose then what is?

I'll agree trinity is meant to keep the team healthy and alive but invulnerability only solves the problem of being alive, healing however solves both, and so invulnerability is not a necessity healing is.

[kubbi]

I'll agree trinity is meant to keep the team healthy and alive but invulnerability only solves the problem of being alive, healing however solves both, and so invulnerability is not a necessity healing is.

Invunerability is her ultimate. Ultimates are supposed to be really strong. Its fitting fora healer frame to have invunerability as an ult. A lot of users complain that Trinity is often used to survive long. That is so because she's one of the few thats viable for high level. The problem isn't that she's OP but that most are severely underpowered. Weaker frames need a buff. Trinity needs no nerf.

[(PSN)witch3rDC52]

If youre getting knocked down when you should be somewhere relatively safe and ready to recast then youre doing it wrong

 

The cast time isnt long at all, only a second and maybe a bit more between invis

 

Using two trinities effectively eliminates all chances of failure

 

24 seconds is a long time

 

The helmet and mods arent hard to get and the payoff is much much greater than the effort

 

The energy is more than sustainable  even without energy drops

 

Balance of the game is important

Balance of the game for whom?  For you?   I am fine with how both Trinity and Nova are.   I haven't heard anyone in my parties complain about me using Trinity yet and I don't complain when others use Nova.  In fact I've heard people says: "Great, we have a Trinity here."

 

I have yet to be in a party with two Trinities.   I see a lot of two or three Rhinos or Lokis but if two people bring Trinities or Novas, I see someone change out to something else.  Why not nerf it so only one of any warframe can be in a party?

 

You don't like it, don't play it.

[Azawarau]

Balance of the game for whom?  For you?   I am fine with how both Trinity and Nova are.   I haven't heard anyone in my parties complain about me using Trinity yet and I don't complain when others use Nova.  In fact I've heard people says: "Great, we have a Trinity here."

 

I have yet to be in a party with two Trinities.   I see a lot of two or three Rhinos or Lokis but if two people bring Trinities or Novas, I see someone change out to something else.  Why not nerf it so only one of any warframe can be in a party?

 

You don't like it, don't play it.

Because 2 lokis, 2 rhinos, and 2 novas cant take nearly as much advantage of powers as 2 trinities can

 

And what if i want to play a pure healer like i do in every game?

 

As much as people say "youre messing with my game" theyre doing the exact same thing

 

I cant play what i want because its broken

 

I have to either not use blessing, her best and only useful heal, or sacrifice usefulness for link

 

I want to be able to use both without it being overpowered

 

Youre stopping my fun

 

EDIT

 

And another thing

 

Dont pretend its just me

 

There are many players who also think trinity is broken and im going to even go out of my way to prove it to you all

Edited May 1, 2014 by Azawarau

[GreyEnneract]

Don't compare her to Valkyr btw.

Valkyr is self invincibility with a forced melee add-on.

A melee add-on that has terrible animations to hit enemies with, if you even can do so.

[kubbi]

Because 2 lokis, 2 rhinos, and 2 novas cant take nearly as much advantage of powers as 2 trinities can

 

And what if i want to play a pure healer like i do in every game?

 

As much as people say "youre messing with my game" theyre doing the exact same thing

 

I cant play what i want because its broken

 

I have to either not use blessing, her best and only useful heal, or sacrifice usefulness for link

 

I want to be able to use both without it being overpowered

 

Youre stopping my fun

 

EDIT

 

And another thing

 

Dont pretend its just me

 

There are many players who also think trinity is broken and im going to even go out of my way to prove it to you all

How is that stopping your fun? You can choose to not equip any ability you want. You have the choice. There are people that like invunerability and people that dont. People that dont can choose to not be invunerable. People that do can play with it. Both teams win.

If blessing is nerfed only one group wins. How is that fair?

[RespectTheInternet]

How is that stopping your fun? You can choose to not equip any ability you want. You have the choice. There are people that like invunerability and people that dont. People that dont can choose to not be invunerable. People that do can play with it. Both teams win.

If blessing is nerfed only one group wins. How is that fair?

It's fair because that group has an unfair advantage. Mario Star invulnerability is cool, but it's novelty wears off real fast when you realize you need 0 skill to win. If you play a game to be a god all time, then go play checker's on easy mode. You're getting the exact same experience, except there's no flashy graphics and explosions. 

 

Edit: Seriously, isn't there a megathread for this?

Edited May 1, 2014 by RespectTheInternet

[kubbi]

It's fair because that group has an unfair advantage. Mario Star invulnerability is cool, but it's novelty wears off real fast when you realize you need 0 skill to win. If you play a game to be a god all time, then go play checker's on easy mode. You're getting the exact same experience, except there's no flashy graphics and explosions. 

 

Edit: Seriously, isn't there a megathread for this?

 

How is it unfair? You still have to run around and kill enemies. Its not like you cast it and just wait untill the game does all the winning for you. It helps massively but you still have to do a lot of work in order to complete a mission.

[Qynchou]

You want invulnerability?

 

Are you guys borderline $&*&*#(%&? I mean really, thank fuckin christ youre not on the developer team.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Qynchou

[RespectTheInternet]

How is it unfair? You still have to run around and kill enemies. Its not like you cast it and just wait untill the game does all the winning for you. It helps massively but you still have to do a lot of work in order to complete a mission.

Running around and killing enemies is an inherent part of the game play. So is dodging, reloading, taking cover (sort of) wall running, loads of other things, and Dying. Trinity is breaking one of the game's prime punishment mechanics. You play well? You live. You play badly? Go play a Trinity --> Problem solved. That's not very fair at all.

Edited May 1, 2014 by RespectTheInternet

[Guest Shibboleet]

 

Trinity is an easy, quick way to get to 200 waves against Grineer since they oneshot themselves on you. Needs to be changed.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Shibboleet

[kubbi]

Running around and killing enemies is an inherent part of the game play. So is dodging, reloading, taking cover (sort of) wall running, loads of other things, and Dying. Trinity is breaking one of the game's prime punishment mechanics. You play well? You live. You play badly? Go play a Trinity --> Problem solved. That's not very fair at all.

 

So all Trinity players are players that play bad? Pretty stereotypical if you ask me. You know she's a healer/support frame right? It makes perfectly sense for an ultimate to grant invunerability. Like mentioned in a previous post ultimates are supposed to be really powerfull. She has no abilities that deal direct damage to enemies or distract or anything.

[RespectTheInternet]

So all Trinity players are players that play bad? Pretty stereotypical if you ask me. You know she's a healer/support frame right? It makes perfectly sense for an ultimate to grant invunerability. Like mentioned in a previous post ultimates are supposed to be really powerfull. She has no abilities that deal direct damage to enemies or distract or anything.

Admittedly my post can come off like that, though unintentional. But you choose to argue that one part of my post while you still ignore that her ult is a game breaker. And as have been mentioned in previous posts, any invulnerability you find in other games will almost always come with large tradeoffs. Trinity has none of these problems, and has proven to be a god.

 

Also, she has link. A magical long range 100% accurate heat seeking missile when its combined with her #4 that does as much damage as you can blow yourself up.

[Sokina]

Darn. I guess I can't spend 75 energy and fully heal all my allies, restore all their energy, and make them completely invincible for nearly 30 seconds, within a huge / endless range.

 

Nerf Blessing but still make it have an impact:   Instead of making them invincible, make them unable to die.

 

They take damage as normal, but their HP can not go under 1. Or we can have it as a power strength modifier.

 

"Heals allies, restores their energy, and make it so they can't go under 2/4/6/8/10....30% HP for the duration of the skill."

 

It helps players out for intense fights, but they still need to avoid taking unnecessary damage, or be ready to heal it back up when the skill ends.

 

 

 

I used to main Trinity because I liked the idea of a support frame. Then I got tons of duration mods. It made me feel guilty, how easy every single thing in the game became. I felt like I was doing something wrong to be invincibile for nearly half a minute, with negligible impact on my energy.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Sokina