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Glorious Battle And Victory In The Name Of Your Clan [Dark Sector Megathread]

Oizen

By Oizen,
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Katakuna

Katakuna

Posted
Posted

I fought for SoV because they're a cool bunch who pay out of pocket for the benefit of the public without asking anything in return.  Same with that Ghost Bears clan.  And I will continue to do so, whether the jerks that contest them are Eclipse or some no-name clan or anyone.

 

I'll gladly take Eclipse's credits when they're on the defense, but attacking a 0% rail that belongs to a respected clan?  You're done.

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Saenol

Saenol

Posted
Posted
 

please guys put the taxes to 5% min, 7% would be good, if eclipse take the node, they will apply their 25% taxes, and WE DON'T WANT THAT, me and my friends will fight for you, for honour, glory, and liberty

 

I have no idea why people keep posting this nonsense.

 

The fact that SoV retains control of their rail is proof that standing by a no-tax policy is just as much of an incentive for people to support you as battle pay. If SoV impliments any tax, they will do nothing more than prove themselves liars and hypocrites, as well as drive away the bulk of their support.

 

0% is best for everyone.

 

I believe that some people hate taxes by default because it's been twisted into an evil word nowadays.

 

Nowadays?

 

Taxation has existed since the dawn of civilization and has always been, by any reasonable definition, theft. The fact that such revenues occasionally result in useful services is as irrelevant as if I forced you to buy something you may or may not have wanted at gun point.

 

The government I suffer under out in the real world may have a near monopoly on the use of force, and be more than willing to exercise that force to collect taxes, but an alliance in a video game has no such power, and the presumption of such power is both laughable and insulting.

 

And to be BLUNT...

 

We do our research, we know who was at the CORE of this negative propaganda machine, and we're just waiting for them to make an appearance openly and without the proxies.

 

But if they are smart they should probably stay in the shadows pushing the buttons behind the curtain...because the general public..not very fond of them.

 

The only negative propaganda necessary was that big, fat, twenty-five percent figure you have plastered on your Rails.

 

You alienated the player base with absurd tax rates, as well as false claims of the supposed benefits they could provide. Guess what, that 0% tax rail you attacked was tied up for what, three hours, tops? Now everyone is back to using it, and they don't have you skimming a thick 25% slice off the top.

 

The only enemy you have is yourself and your delusions. The only thing you have to offer is a tax, and as more people see this, the less support you will have.

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Azawarau

Azawarau

Posted
Posted

Theres nothing wrong with having 0% tax

 

Alot of clans/alliances have no trouble at all supporting it

 

Its good for everyone really regardless of any argument made

 

If they want to make that sacrifice let them.Period

 

Its not your rail, its not your choice

 

They know about the cost and are willing to take it on

 

These threads are pointless at this point

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BolognaPogna

BolognaPogna

Posted
Posted (edited)

I honestly didn't expect any different from a larger community. The average ability to do math decreases with population, if there's no minimum criteria for that. At any rate, it is what it is. These same people will jump on good battle pay anyways, when it isn't hyped. Easy come, easy go. 

 

I'm just quoting you so we can have the second bun for that "wow, the irony of his statement" club sandwich. I'm calling it a club because I'm part of the aggressors and we club people like him, I think at least.

 

gxagoel.gif

 

Get back in line, you! I bet you have ashy elbows. I'm calling you Ashy Larry from now on.

Edited by bolognapogna
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Charismo

Charismo

Posted
Posted (edited)

You're not going to win this PR game you're trying to run by labeling us as monsters. Just a tip.

 

Oh, and to be fair, shouldn't this thread be merged with the victory thread? Your words, not mine.

 

Fact of the matter is, Eclipses' image was doing just fine by staying quiet. But you and others have opened your mouths and left no doubt to your Alliances' intentions: Levy massive taxes against a many rails as possible, forcing others to bolster your warchest, and then distribute the funds that others earned for you in large chunks to the few lucky enough to run your rail at the right time. 

 

With a zero tax rail, Tenno keep the money they earn. With your system, many work to the benefit of the few. To top it all off, the funds only go out when YOU allow them to go out, and only to those who happen to be online during the times you put the battlepay out.

Edited by Charismo
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OniDax

OniDax

Posted
Posted (edited)

Wow, you guys really have to hijack this thread, don't you?

 

But seriously, the specific issue that led to an overwhelming support for defending Sechura was that an alliance that has 25% tax on pretty much all of their rails was attacking a clan that has 0% tax on this one rail. Yeah, some were making it about tax in general (which I disagree with, because some tax isn't bad, just like zero tax isn't bad), but if it were just about tax in general this would have happened long before, and on other Eclipse rails, as well as any rail that had a tax. This was specifically about the conflict between the highest or second highest taxing alliance vs a clan that has zero tax. It is this fact that compelled the community to act against Eclipse.

 

For those who are bitter about it, just accept that the community didn't want a 25% taxing alliance taking control of a zero tax rail. It's really as simple as that.

Edited by AntoineFlemming
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Calayne

Calayne

Posted
Posted (edited)

Wow, you guys really have to hijack this thread, don't you?

 

Well, unfortunately, Eclipse is antagonized quite un-rightfully. They don't deserve as much disdain as they receive, and while this did start out as a good statement made by an honourable Tenno, it's sad to see everyone judge an alliance simply based on the way they conduct their business. 

 

So it's come to this, unfortunately. 

 

I do think there's still space for both kinds of alliances. It's just that people don't agree, and have to antagonize one side, falling into the same problems our Neanderthal ancestors once did: "You bad guy! Me good guy! Hit the bad guys!"

 

There isn't such a black and white distinction. 

 

Edit: Although, to be fair, Antoine was just making an observation. There's really no need to make this thread any more hostile than it already is.

Edited by Calayne
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Kyte

Kyte

Posted
Posted

I still say what I have been saying for the past 3 weeks. Double the build time and scale the cost (steeply) according to how many people in clan\alliance. If it costs 50-100k per person no matter who actually wants to build it or not then the rich guys in a 4000 Alliance who actually pay for these things will go broke in a month. Then we find out who really wants it.

 

The problem is that as a clan\alliance it costs basically nothing to build these things. Warlords from most of the older clans can reach into their own pocket and come out with half a dozen like it was nothing. That has to stop.

 

Why would DE want to discourage big alliances.

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Kyte

Kyte

Posted
Posted (edited)
Eclipse thread detected

 

Tennos, fight for honour and free taxes !

Oho! Quoth the snacks of death:

 

WiK vs MotherRussia (Winner) || April 28th, 1:27:06 pm - April 29th, 12:18:01 am

 

Malva (Venus) [survival] - ARMISTICE Clan

MotherRussia

Deployed by: adrenalin64

Message

for us the force behind us a legacy of great teno....

Tributes
  • Public Credits/Resource Tribute: 5%/5%
  • Member Credits/Resource Tribute: 100%/15%

 

 

 

TW Alliance (Winner) vs Eclipse || April 28th, 9:59:24 pm - April 29th, 12:22:01 am

Gabii (Ceres) [survival] - ARMISTICE Alliance

TW Alliance

Deployed by: Thysia

Message

Thank all of you, our friends. Though we found our own weakness and need more of your help, things will be better. Have fun playing here! :D

Tributes
  • Public Credits/Resource Tribute: 13%/3%
  • Member Credits/Resource Tribute: 9%/1%

Fight for no tax indeed.

 

E: FFS DE why is your forum's editor so bad.

Edited by Kyte
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OniDax

OniDax

Posted
Posted

Well, unfortunately, Eclipse is antagonized quite un-rightfully. They don't deserve as much disdain as they receive, and while this did start out as a good statement made by an honourable Tenno, it's sad to see everyone judge an alliance simply based on the way they conduct their business. 

 

So it's come to this, unfortunately. 

 

I do think there's still space for both kinds of alliances. It's just that people don't agree, and have to antagonize one side, falling into the same problems our Neanderthal ancestors once did: "You bad guy! Me good guy! Hit the bad guys!"

 

There isn't such a black and white distinction. 

 

I think a lot of people just saw the move as being in bad taste. Eclipse has 25% tax on most if not all of their nodes. SoV has 0% tax. So people saw this as a 25% tax vs 0% tax. And Eclipse having 1/3 of the dark sector nodes adds fuel to the fire. It wasn't a conspiracy to defame Eclipse so much as people wanting to keep a zero tax rail "free", and the general misgivings people have about any large group with a lot of "territory" taking more of it. I think all that works against Eclipse. But that's why Eclipse is judged. And that's why Eclipse taking additional rails is seen as greedy.

 

While you say that Eclipse doesn't deserve as much disdain as they receive, I also think that it was very distasteful for certain supporters of Eclipse to likewise slander those supporting SoV as simply greedy people because they supported a rail in which they could keep all of the credits they earn. That backlash against SoV supporters is what offended and angered several users, including myself. Because it was simply not true.

 

In all, the community still supports free tax rails, and the bigger the opponent, the more they're going to rally behind those rails. That said, I'd say Eclipse still has a lot of support, mainly because you're able to put out large battlepays. If you didn't have support, there'd be a lot more support for anyone attacking Eclipse, and we simply don't see that at all. People are willing to support the big guy as long as he doesn't try to get bigger, 'least that's the way I see the current community sentiments. It's good to see that there wasn't any mudslinging on the part of Eclipse leadership or on the part of SoV leadership (still won't make me play on your nodes though :p). I think supporters and "haters" can come to an understanding. Again, main thing is that there's not a whole of support for Eclipse expanding anymore, yet there's enough support for Eclipse to keep their status quo.

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Kyte

Kyte

Posted
Posted (edited)

I fought hard for WiK but many petty Tenno took a measly 1500 credits pay instead of siding with 0% tax (on resources more importantly). So short sighted :(

Quite so! So much for "integrity".

 

I even called attention to Malva while people were arguing about Sechura.

 

While you guys are going on about Eclipse, poor little WiK is losing their 0% Venus-Malva rail to MotherRussia. Which has 5%/5% tax. Yes that's a resource tax. And they're attacking a 0% rail. Y'know, everything you guys are rallying against.

 

Go defend the underdogs, Tenno!

Edited by Kyte
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BolognaPogna

BolognaPogna

Posted
Posted (edited)

By the way, demanding 0% tax or what you personally deem as "reasonable" is the exact opposite a lot of you dunce caps are claiming this is. Social Control (not freedom) deals with what people think is "reasonable". Just call it what it is. If most of the WF community likes 0% tax, then they do. If most of the WF community likes Eclipse and their taxes, then they do. Don't accuse people of attacking freedom, when you've obviously proven you have no clue what true freedom and capitalism is. Slandering (which is what you, Antionne have been doing spread across numerous threads) a group of people based on personal preference and arguing even after facts have been presented, (yes, from both sides) is pretty much the personification of ignorance.

Edited by bolognapogna
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OniDax

OniDax

Posted
Posted (edited)

I fought hard for WiK but many petty Tenno took a measly 1500 credits pay instead of siding with 0% tax (on resources more importantly). So short sighted :(

 

Wasn't as much support because MotherRussia wasn't as big a challenger as Eclipse. Plus, people underestimated MotherRussia's ability to take the node, and there wasn't publicity about it.

 

@Squig - a lot of players aren't going to ignore a 25% credit tax simply because of a 0% resource tax. As we saw last night, the way many saw the situation is that "Eclipse will touch your credits, but SoV won't".

Edited by AntoineFlemming
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Kyte

Kyte

Posted
Posted (edited)

Wasn't as much support because MotherRussia wasn't as big a challenger as Eclipse. Plus, people underestimated MotherRussia's ability to take the node, and there wasn't publicity about it.

Except that's wrong because WiK was losing from the beginning.

 

Look at the graph: http://deathsnacks.com/wf/bl_history.html#5348d46207c56f9c997b24e2_1398706026

 

People just Didn't Care, because it was not Eclipse. When I pointed Malva out in this very thread, nobody even looked at it. The entire "integrity movement" is a sham.

Edited by Kyte
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Kazzamo

Kazzamo

Posted
Posted

Another reason Wik lost sadly is it's down on Venus. The profits for players are higher on Pluto and Ghost Bear is down in Venus as well to help ensure people no as deep into the star chart can still get a tax free sector. If my little 4 person clan had an Orokin lab we'd consider trying to retake that sector but at the moment we do not and more than likely someone else will beat us to freeing that sector again.

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Liminal

Liminal

Posted
Posted

People just Didn't Care, because it was not Eclipse. When I pointed Malva out in this very thread, nobody even looked at it. The entire "integrity movement" is a sham.

hey hey, not the entirety :P

At least we damaged their rail significantly ... that's like 160k in repairs.

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Salishaz

Salishaz

Posted
Posted

Good Tenno,

 

The purpose of this post was simply to thank those that supported us in the rail conflict on Pluto, and shed some light on the dynamics I saw in play. I was not trying to aggravate the community against Eclipse or any other faction in the game. In fact, if you look I specifically asked everyone to give Eclipse another chance to earn their trust. Eclipse is not evil, I think they are just a little behind the curve in the way they are supporting the community. You don't keep 8 or however many rails they have for as long as they have had them by being a tyrant.

 

To my brothers and sisters of the Tenno in the mighty Eclipse Alliance, I would speak to you.

 

You would do well if you responded to the massive change in the rail system that took place recently. In taking the conflict time from 48 hours to 12, the entire foundation of the system changed. In this, the relative value of ending a conflict quickly, your major advantage up until now, has been fantastically diminished. Now, the most a player has to wait is 12 hours and then they get what, three days is it of rail use is it (I am at work and can't log on to look right now)? When the system was first implemented getting 75% of your income from a rail and being able to use it with regularity was just fantastic. I think it probably outweighed 100% of the rail income with being able to use it for two and a half days a week. There was a significant value in the service you were providing to the community.

 

The system has changed. As with any economic system, those that are able to react to the new environment will benefit the most. The comparative value of that 25% tax is no longer seen as worth it to what is in my estimation a growing portion of the community. The portion of the community that attacked and destroyed your rail in a handful of hours was not a microcosm, or brainwashed. They honestly disagree with you and were willing to take action to back up their beliefs.

 

Let me be clear: we are not your enemy. As I said in the original post, you are the far more capable faction between us. I am simply offering some friendly council.

 

Put up a rail you can afford to lose as a test. Set it to 0%. Pay diminished battle pays, or even no battle pay at all. Tell the community that if they fight for you and you keep that rail, you will leave that rail at 0% and set another one to no tax. Repeat this process if it is successful. If in the end you have all your rails at 0%, as you originally seemed to want to do before being attacked in that crazy first week, you will be the most loved faction in the game. This community will not hold a grudge against you if they see you change if you just talk to them to let them know what is going on. You will find the "Zerg Rush" will suddenly be melting the rails of those that oppose you, and the forums will be buzzing with positive sentiments toward you.

 

If you choose to do this the Shadows of Vengeance, with all the good will we have gathered in the community, will ask those that support us to support you. This is no small offer, because many that supported us did so less to support us and more to oppose you. I think I could convince them though, if you were willing to try.

 

I am not saying this is the wisest move to make, nor is it the safest. I am not guaranteeing the result I suggest. You have the experience now in how to defend your rails effectively. More effectively than we have historically done. This may be a horrible idea, but if I were where you are, it is what I would do given the changes to the rail system.

 

Vulnerability, transparency, and honesty could be your greatest currency.

 

 

Honor to you, Mighty Eclipse.

 

 

- Salishaz, Warlord of the Shadows of Vengeance

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