Eclipse Goals/policy (As Understood By A Random Member)

[Executor_Aeternus]

I am a member of the Alliance Eclipse, and I've seen quite a few things said here (and I thank you all for the input, both positive and negative. It does help us understand the player-base and helps us understand how we might be able to better adjust to the community's needs.) I'm not some high-ranking official (just a regular dude in a constituent clan) and I'm not too active in posting on the forums, having long been a lurker, but I feel that it might be useful to simply state some things that we hold to and to clear up some issues that are probably of concern.
 

1. We clear our nodes as fast as possible so you guys can actually play the nodes and get the materials, mods, exp and credits you want. As our taxes don't affect the mods you get or the boatloads of exp, and only go to funding the repairs of the Rails and the battlepay. When the Rail is contested, we pay out a high battlepay rate (while making sure we'd retain enough to repair by the time the battle is done), thereby returning to you the extra money taxed we don't anticipate needing for repairs. This also gives you additional, immediate incentive to help out if the idea of having Dark Sectors available fast is too far away a goal for you - which would be totally understandable, we all look for that immediate gratification. Hence battlepay; if I recall correctly, we once paid out something like 50 million or more in battlepay in one battle. That's waaay more than the cost of the Rails, which is a fact I find a bit ironic. Although we do have to tax to do it, we have on several occasions taxed ourselves at 75% to help out (not to mention constant donations of funds from our own dedicated players to help make your constantly open nodes a reality).

 

2. We try to maintain our protection of the nodes the players need for resources as effectively as possible. If someone does defeat us, that means they, at the time, can possibly do a better job of protecting the rail and keeping it open for players - and that's great. We're probably going to challenge a few nodes over time to see the community reaction, and to open up sectors (held by other groups) that have been slow to open it up to the community. If we get a node we'll probably drop a node, since we don't want to overextend ourselves and end up not keeping nodes open as fast. So if we do get one, then we'll keep it open at that constant, fast battling rate you guys have grown to know us for (and maybe drop a node to make sure things stay that fast). Just think of our Ceres node - constantly open and ready for you guys to farm the Hek out of. ; )

 

3. Oh, a note on the so-called "battlepay scams" some people (somewhat understandably) accuse variances alliances and clans of engaging in:

I've heard a few posts about players being upset and not receiving battlepay, which was a bit surprising - but it seems the problem is with the system DE set up. Battlepay is allotted to the first players that complete a mission, for a set amount of times. So, if you set 30k battlepay for 5000 times, then only the first 5000 get that battlepay. When the first 5000 people finish that mission, anyone still in a mission isn't able to get the pay since they didn't complete it fast enough, which is an annoying way to allot it. I'm fairly sure higher-ups have sent messages to DE representatives, and posted on the forums about this, but the system really needs to be changed to battlepay is allotted the second you start a mission. That way, so long as you complete the mission, you're ensured of the payout. Honestly, that doesn't seem too hard a system to set up. :/

Still, we know the Solar Rail/Dark Sector thing is a work in progress. We just hope it gets improved and that some of these not-so-great systems are fixed soon. As it stands, we have tacticians set to constantly monitor the battlepay (devoting their time to ensuring as many people get fairly paid as they can - time that they don't get to spend on themselves, or their WarFrame, or their friends or anything else, time they devote to helping you instead of themselves). They have to constantly ensure the tickets don't run out (by putting out at least 1000 tickets, sometimes more now that we've got the amounts straight) and that the battlepay is going at an appropriate rate and is nicely competitive (when compared to the opponent's pay) to return the money not needed back to the players while getting the node free quickly (a good cycle for all of you).

 

4. A note on the touchy topic of taxes:

I know you guys don't like taxes and hey, neither do I - but that tax only goes to making sure that node stays open constantly for you. We've slightly taxed materials in some areas in anticipation of future features (after all, since DE made it possible for us to get them, we assume we'll be given things to spend them on related to the solar rail system and hope to be prepared to offer any additional features to players when such things arrive.) And yes, it's true, many alliances hoped to be able to offer 0% taxes at the start - but it quickly became clear with the costs of rails, battlepay and repairs, any rail hoping to keep itself open for the constant use of players was going to have to ask other players for contribution... but when almost nobody outside an alliance was willing to help and we found our rails under constant assault from random people (who in some cases just wanted to attack and lock down the node for the hell of it).

We clearly needed a better way to keep them open and gather support. So, we had to tax and we're currently testing various rates (hoping to find community reactions to various rates, build up a fair vault in the case of large scale attack, and figure out the minimum we can reasonable tax to keep the rails open constantly). It's a new system, it will take some time to get things right. We ask the community to bear with us and continue to give input on the Solar Rail system (and ourselves) so we can learn how to better serve the players as best as possible.

Hopefully, I'll hear some responses back from you guys and we can take a look at this thread (and others) to gauge community response and get a better understanding of our ideal future direction with you all. Thanks for taking the time to read my post, and enjoy playing WarFrame. Good luck, Tenno! : D

[edited a bit to try to make it more read-able]

Edited May 1, 2014 by LordGreymantle

[SimplyEvil]

Just wanted to add this for you (for your 3rd point on "battle pay scams")

Deathsnacks recently released battlepay information (similar to dark sector rail health during a conflict)

So players can actually check which clans/alliances utilize such methods and can develop their own opinion on the ethnics of said clan or alliance.

 

I do not want to name & shame alliances/clans, so you forumers can search it up yourself.

http://deathsnacks.com/wf/

Just look at planet dark sector, click on "Conlfict History", then "Health/Pay History" and scroll down a bit.

From what I understand, "[Alliance/Clan] Pay" is the amount that they alliance/clan offered and "[Alliance/Clan] Reserve" is the amount of tickets for that pay. So low reserve and high pay = baiting. 

Edited May 1, 2014 by SimplyEvil

[ArchBlood]

TL;DR

[Kartumterek]

I am a member of the Alliance Eclipse, and I've seen quite a few things said here (and I thank you all for the input, both positive and negative. It does help us understand the player-base and helps us understand how we might be able to better adjust to the community's needs.) I'm not some high-ranking official (just a regular dude in a constituent clan) and I'm not too active in posting on the forums, having long been a lurker, but I feel that it might be useful to simply state some things that we hold to and to clear up some issues that are probably of concern.

 

1. We clear our nodes as fast as possible so you guys can actually play the nodes and get the materials, mods, exp and credits you want. As our taxes don't affect the mods you get or the boatloads of exp, and only go to funding the repairs of the Rails and the battlepay. When the Rail is contested, we pay out a high battlepay rate (while making sure we'd retain enough to repair by the time the battle is done), thereby returning to you the extra money taxed we don't anticipate needing for repairs and giving you additional, immediate incentive to help out if the idea of having Dark Sectors available fast is too far away a goal for you - which would be totally understandable, we all look for that immediate gratification. Hence battlepay; if I recall correctly, we once paid out something like 50 million or more in battlepay. That's waaay more than the cost of the Rails, which is somewhat funny. Although tax to do it, we have on several occasions taxed ourselves at 75% to help out (not to mention constant donations of funds from our own dedicated players to help make your constantly open nodes a reality).

 

2. Maintain our protection of the nodes the players need for resources as effectively as possible. If someone does defeat us, that means they, at the time, can possibly do a better job of protecting the rail and keeping it open for players - and that's great. We're probably going to challenge a few nodes over time to see the community reaction, and to open up sectors (held by other groups) that have been slow to open it up to the community. If we get a node we'll probably drop a node, since we don't want to overextend ourselves and end up not keeping nodes open as fast. So if we do get one, then we'll keep it open at that constant, fast battling rate you guys have grown to know us for (and maybe drop a node to make sure things stay that fast). Just think of our Ceres node - constantly open and ready for you guys to farm the Hek out of. ; )

 

3. Oh, a note on the so-called "battlepay scams" some people (somewhat understandably) accuse variances alliances and clans of engaging in:

I've heard a few posts about players being upset and not receiving battlepay, which was a bit surprising - but it seems the problem is with the system DE set up. Battlepay is allotted to the first players that complete a mission, for a set amount of times. So, if you set 30k battlepay for 5000 times, then only the first 5000 get that battlepay. When the first 5000 people finish that mission, anyone still in a mission isn't able to get the pay since they didn't complete it fast enough, which is an annoying way to allot it. I'm fairly sure higher-ups have sent messages to DE representatives, and posted on the forums about this, but the system really needs to be changed to battlepay is allotted the second you start a mission. That way, so long as you complete the mission, you're ensured of the payout. Honestly, that doesn't seem too hard a system to set up. :/ Still, we know the Solar Rail/Dark Sector thing is a work in progress. We just hope it gets improved and that some of these not-so-great systems are fixed soon. As it stands, we have tacticians set to constantly monitor the battlepay (devoting their time to ensuring as many people get fairly paid as they can - time that they don't get to spend on themselves, or their WarFrame, or their friends or anything else, time they devote to helping you instead of themselves). They have to constantly ensure the tickets don't run out (by putting out at least 1000 tickets, sometimes more now that we've got the amounts straight) and that the battlepay is going at an appropriate rate and is nicely competitive (when compared to the opponent's pay) to return the money not needed back to the players while getting the node free quickly (a good cycle for all of you).

 

4. A note on the touchy topic of taxes:

I know you guys don't like taxes and hey, neither do I - but that tax only goes to making sure that node stays open constantly for you. We've slightly taxed materials in some areas in anticipation of future features (after all, since DE made it possible for us to get them, we assume we'll be given things to spend them on related to the solar rail system and hope to be prepared to offer any additional features to players when such things arrive.) And yes, it's true, many alliances hoped to be able to offer 0% taxes at the start - but it quickly became clear with the costs of rails, battlepay and repairs, any rail hoping to keep itself open for the constant use of players was going to have to ask other players for contribution... but when almost nobody outside an alliance was willing to help and we found our rails under constant assault from people who in some cases just wanted to attack and lock down the node for the hell of it, we clearly needed a better way to keep them open and gather support. So, we had to tax and we're currently testing various rates (hoping to find community reactions to various rates, build up a fair vault in the case of large scale attack, and figure out the minimum we can reasonable tax to keep the rails open constantly). It's a new system, it will take some time to get things right. We ask the community to bear with us and continue to give input on the Solar Rail system (and ourselves) so we can learn how to better serve the players as best as possible.

Hopefully, I'll hear some responses back from you guys and we can take a look at this thread (and others) to gauge community response and get a better understanding of our ideal future direction with you all. Thanks for taking the time to read my post, and enjoy playing WarFrame. Good luck, Tenno! : D

 

 

Public Relations swooping in to perform damage control post-debacle... notice none of the ranting and braggadocio from 48 hours ago. On an account with 7 posts.

 

the sad part is is that the pious, benevolent 2.0 will ensnare ppl yet again, cause gullibles

 

FOR THE GREATER GOOD

Edited May 1, 2014 by Kartumterek

[PurrfectZero28]

Really just bring more rage towards the alliance.....Great

[Dualstar]

If you want people to read all of that, then please split up the walls a bit.

 

Other than that, i expect trrolls will derail the thread by page 3.

[Gryphticon]

As I said on another thread, stop raging and just go run against Eclispe if you hate them or run for them if you like them.

[Executor_Aeternus]

Yeah, it ended up being a whole lot longer than I expected. I tried to read a lot of posts and explain things people didn't know about and help clear up some points. After all, unless you own a solar rail or read the wiki, most people don't really know how they work. We try to keep a lid on braggarts and just act responsibly, but sometimes total quiet is too much. So, I thought I'd take the initiative on the behalf of the alliance, stick my neck out and explain our intentions a bit more.

[Dread_Rider_Juno]

can we shut up about eclipse, this isn't going to work eclipse member, your clan can't just get better terms by justifying your acts. also those point have been said before an I've conuterd all of them some time or another but none of you listen. lastly thats an alternate profile isn't?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUCE5dTbQeQ

Edited May 1, 2014 by junothefox

[EdBazokatone]

Ok, but I don't buy it.

 

If you wanted the help your alliance, stoping the hate somehow (I don't hate, I just don't believe that everything Eclipse does is a benevolent act for the community, not in this world...) I think you'll get just the opposite reaction.

[PsychShaman]

Quickly killing your enemy was more of an importance before the conflict was scaled back to 12 hours. When you say that you try to clear nodes as fast as possible to keep the rails open for us, all I hear is "We crush our enemies as fast as possible, so our nodes can go back into the tax-the-hell-outta-everything mode.

Also, your idea of "protecting" rails is way different from reality. The reality is if Eclipse lost all of their nodes, and no alliance taxed 25% or above, our community and the rail system would be in much better shape.

Simply put, we need protection from Eclipse's tyranny.

Edited May 1, 2014 by PsychShaman

[Flamingfighter]

I don't know. I appreciate the long, detailed post, but now it honestly kind of feels like the issue countries have with America. You "free" nodes by dominating them and have racked up a nice sum of them for yourselves. It seems that your are arguing that Eclipse is doing a service to the community by dominating the nodes. This is a service that nobody seemed to explicitly request from you, yet you automatically assumed that it is something we would want.

 

What many people I know want is to try and get the perks out of Dark Sector ownership (which have yet to be fully released, according to DE) And I am not applying this to taxes. As you have made note of, you have taxed resources in some areas to prepare for upcoming releases, but it isn't evident what benefits these releases will come with and for whom they will be applied. It is very likely that benefits may apply only to groups owning Dark Sectors when these releases are... released to further spur on the want to control a Dark Sector.

 

These speculative releases will likely be unavailable or not as beneficial to those that do not own Dark Sectors, and the number of people that will reap benefits is fewer since Eclipse owns Approx. 50% of the nodes (not sure what the current count is now, at least 10.) These possible benefits would then not be effectively circulated through the community.

 

You say that your domination increases competition. But basic economics states that typically, the fewer owners there are in a market, the less competitive the system is. Other than a sizable part of the community uniting against you to overthrow you, people aren't going to be encouraged to really challenge Eclipse. Maybe a small clan or alliance will dare to try, but you have a home advantage and massive coffers. Why would a clan waste time and resources building a rail to attack Eclipse when they are just going to be beaten out by 30,000 credit Battlepays, something that they can't really keep up with unless it is maxing the member cap for alliances. The large portion of the community that wants/needs a quick payout will side with you, maybe that chunk of Eclipse haters will side with your attackers, but the disparity in power is still to great. I see many Eclipse rails being attacked but winning over by massive percentages or, as you mentioned, pulverizing the enemy and ending the battle quickly. This altogether discourages the spirit of competition rather than promotes it.

 

The only thing I can glean from this post is that you are enforcing your domination of nodes because you say that it is good for us even though we don't want it. The Eclipse that mainly sum themselves up as "What are you talking about? We know better." by many users only makes the entire group seem arrogant. You claim that you are trying to increase competition, but the Alliance's actions only discourage it. My clan is in a rail-owning alliance, and right now our biggest concern is preparing for an attack from your alliance. Eclipse has become juggernauts that have separated themselves from the community and imposed a status quo that they say we want, even though there is much unrest over it.

 

Sorry if this maybe came off like an attack, this is just the response I could come up with. I know I may have drifted a bit in the response but I hope my points are clear and understandable. Thank you again for making your post to try and explain the reasoning behind the actions of your alliance. It certainly shows some effort on behalf of those in the Eclipse alliance.

[PhotriusPyrelus]

Simply put, we need protection from Eclipse's tyranny.

 

We do not need protection from Eclipse's tyranny, what we need is for the player base to get its head out of its &#! and look at more than just its own immediate wallet.

[-Krux-]

TL;DR

[PsychShaman]

We do not need protection from Eclipse's tyranny, what we need is for the player base to get its head out of its &#! and look at more than just its own immediate wallet.

Agreed, I was just trying to say that their "protection" only helps them and hurts us.

[Executor_Aeternus]

This is a service that nobody seemed to explicitly request from you, yet you automatically assumed that it is something we would want.

Still, it seems like keeping battlepay as low as possible and keeping the nodes free is something the population in general certainly wants. o.o;

 

Why would a clan waste time and resources building a rail to attack Eclipse when they are just going to be beaten out by 30,000 credit Battlepays, something that they can't really keep up with unless it is maxing the member cap for alliances. The large portion of the community that wants/needs a quick payout will side with you, maybe that chunk of Eclipse haters will side with your attackers, but the disparity in power is still to great.

I'd think this is somewhat good in that it makes it less likely for other alliances to contest nodes unless they think they have some good backing to keep it open. So, even if we lose, we lost to a clearly superior power, which probably means the node is open for everyone just as quickly as we were able to keep it open - and now we can allocate our member resources elsewhere to help other nodes, now that we know that group will do well to keep that one open. Regarding the fact we do own several nodes, we actually intend to drop a few as far as I can tell - but so long as we seem to just end up winning them, then I guess we'll end up keeping them. There's no way to manually abandon a node. :L

 

Sorry if this maybe came off like an attack, this is just the response I could come up with. I know I may have drifted a bit in the response but I hope my points are clear and understandable. Thank you again for making your post to try and explain the reasoning behind the actions of your alliance. It certainly shows some effort on behalf of those in the Eclipse alliance.

Nah, no problem. It certainly doesn't come across an attack to me. It's better than another TL;DR for sure, and it's the kind of understandable, logical reasoning I was hoping for.

 

 

Agreed, I was just trying to say that their "protection" only helps them and hurts us.

I honestly don't understand how we have, in any real way, actually hurt the general playerbase, although I feel a bit bad for some of the smaller alliances. While I'd love for some smaller alliances to feel like they're able to participate in the big battles, the content is designed so that little groups get to team up with other little groups to become bigger powers. I'm sure other groups will rise to compete more effectively with us once better alliances are formed. We're just other players testing out the new content and trying to keep it open for ourselves and others. :/

Edited May 1, 2014 by LordGreymantle

[Soulie]

Sorry but I have no respect for eclipse. You guys are dishonest. Honestly if you want to make everyone happy, remove taxes and let another clan take the node and offer their 0% taxes until th next clan attacks and does the same. Thats what people want. Everyone wants a shot to have their rail up for a couple days.

[Arlayn]

We do not need protection from Eclipse's tyranny, what we need is for the player base to get its head out of its &#! and look at more than just its own immediate wallet.

More like save resources just incase DE releases epic stuff to build, and use those resources for that instead of more solar rails to attack people with... Still sitting on abunch of solar rails here. I will just wait till people dislike the whole solar rail thing, and then wack someone when they least expect it.

[--Q--AFKrasul]

Excellent post Lord

 

Full disclosure I am also  part of eclipse…

 

The Public and the player base should not hate Eclipse for the work they have done in dark sectors. You ask why? Because we have made it competitive. Imagine a Dark Sector with all rails offering 0% tax. The conflicts between alliances or clans who would drag on forever (rails won’t get destroyed). With the public having no reason to side with one over the other. 1) Battle pay would never reach the high 10,000-30,000 even 50,000 or more that Eclipse offers during our conflicts. Thus, 2) Battle would never end quickly (Eclipse fastest battle was 56 min in Sinai, do you think 0% tax nodes could have done that?) Remember “56 mins of conflict” and you get you 48 hours of levelling/farming after (what is to hate?). You really think a Dark Sector with 0% tax nodes would end conflicts as quickly as we do? 0% tax alliance/clan vs 0% tax alliance/clan = a conflict with no battle pay, and no incentive to side with either. Taxes are necessary to engage the community in battle pay. Or else rail conflicts would just be a waste of time for the public.

 

We were the only Alliance to beat a node during that early days of Dark Sector, We killed off a rail with 75,000 hit points (not the 7,500 hit point rails we have now) in 16 hours. What did other alliances do? We totalled 400% damage in those first 3 days of conflict while the other alliances did 30% damage. We were the first to free up a nodes even with the ridiculous amount of grind it took from our own members. And what do we get, hate?

 

All the money we earn in taxes do not go to our own pockets (what for?), they go out in ridiculous battle pay we offer (Which again drives the community/ rewards them for actually doing conflict missions). In a way, we are offering a service, we offer the public an additional incentive in ending conflicts. Isn’t that what a lot you complained about, that nodes got locked up by attacking clans. At least now when there is conflict you actually get a reward for doing them. Getting 5,000 or 10,000 or 30,000 for a 3 minute run is not bad at all. Imagine getting none if we had 0% tax. Wow would anyone actually do conflict missions?

 

There is no need to hate eclipse, our taxes have ended conflicts quicker, thus giving the community more time to gain the advantages of Dark Sector. So please support eclipse and stop the hate.

Edited May 1, 2014 by --Q--Akrasul

[Executor_Aeternus]

Sorry but I have no respect for eclipse. You guys are dishonest. Honestly if you want to make everyone happy, remove taxes and let another clan take the node and offer their 0% taxes until th next clan attacks and does the same. Thats what people want. Everyone wants a shot to have their rail up for a couple days.

I understand little alliances want their name up in lights, and we don't have a problem with that. It's just that we'll do the best to keep open the nodes we have for the common player, who shouldn't be stuck in a war of pride between alliances. The average guy shouldn't be screwed out of playing a dark sector run just because some random alliance wants to be able to boast about having a dark sector and so felt justified to contest it and deny access to every player for half a day or more. If you haven't noticed, we don't do what we do so we can boast about it.

[SolidSp33d]

@number 2: How about you don't attack other nodes period. Attacking other nodes and then just giving it up just seems like a prick move. Don't screw over a clan or alliance working hard for a spot to just say, "oh lol we can do it, lemme give it back to any ol' joe afterwards, hehe." Now that really don't bode well for your image.

[SoulEchelon]

Okay enough with the Eclipse threads.

 

I don't really give two shats about either side, but these constant threads are clogging the forums.

[PhotriusPyrelus]

I understand little alliances want their name up in lights, and we don't have a problem with that. It's just that we'll do the best to keep open the nodes we have for the common player, who shouldn't be stuck in a war of pride between alliances. The average guy shouldn't be screwed out of playing a dark sector run just because some random alliance wants to be able to boast about having a dark sector and so felt justified to contest it and deny access to every player for half a day or more. If you haven't noticed, we don't do what we do so we can boast about it.

If you cared about 'keeping nodes open' you wouldn't attack, ever, because that just contributes to the problem of nodes being closed.  You do, ergo this argument is moot.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Letter13
inapropes lang man

[Zinthir]

Full disclosure I am also  part of eclipse…

 

The Public and the player base should not hate Eclipse for the work they have done in dark sectors. You ask why? Because we have made it competitive

 

 

There is no need to hate eclipse, our taxes have ended conflicts quicker, thus giving the community more time to gain the advantages of Dark Sector. So please support eclipse and stop the hate.

 

All of my                         wat                                            wat                                                                                      wat

wat                  wat                                                                              wat

                                                         wat                                                                  wat

           wat                                                                   wat                                                              wat

                                  wat                                                                 wat

 wat                                                      wat

                                                                             wat                                      wat

wat                          wat                                                                                                           wat

 

I never hated Eclipse as a collective peoples until this thread

[Executor_Aeternus]

I get where you're coming from, PhotriusPyrelus. Attacking nodes does temporarily inconvenience the community, that's true. However, you'll note (take a look at deathsnack's history, if you want), the second we found the community would defend the node well we abandoned the attack. We hadn't thought a 0% node would be defended well and thought the best way to find out would be to simply place ourselves against one. With the wonderful surge of support for the node, we demonstrated no ill will and dropped the battlepay fee to 1 for the rest of the period, ensuring they'd have the victory they honestly deserved. I highly doubt we'll attack any such node again, now that the community has demonstrated it actually will respond to something other than battlepay. That's good news for us too, as we're bouncing back and forth ideas for appropriate tax rates. Given the great response from the community in defending that Pluto node, some of us think we might actually be able to do some pretty low tax rates. (0% will just end up, one day, with us unable to support ourselves, but we'll probably end up with something fairly low as we test out rates.)

Edited May 1, 2014 by LordGreymantle