Should Multishot Use Up Additional Bullets?

[Rawnrawn]

In the game Dark Sector you could also mod your weapons, and the multishot made you actually use 2 bullets per trigger.

 

I wonder why it doesnt do that in warframe aswell, atm it's just a free bullet which increases your damage and status chance.

 

It could be more balanced by adding the recoil of shooting two bullets at once and actually using up ammo from shooting two (or more) bullets at once.

 

Whaddaya think?

[Worira]

In related news, in the game Dark Sector multishot sucked.

[TDS0Spoderman]

Would make continuous weapons veeeery ammo intensive (even more) and only be "ok" on things like the Latron series or Lex,

[Tsukinoki]

Then its just a fancy firing speed upgrade.

Further how would that work for shotguns and other pellet weapons?

Currently it works like this:

-Your weapon shoots 10 pellets.

-You slap on a 40% multishot

-Your weapon now shoots 14 pellets.

How would it work out using extra ammo for those types of weapons?

Would it always use an extra shell? In which case anything below 100% is a waste of a mod and worthless to equip, and the highest level (120% multishot) is also a waste.

[Liminal]

Nah, it should just have double the recoil.

[Nkomo-Sama]

No. For All of these ^^^^ reasons

[Paradoxbomb]

It can't be denied that Multishot needs some kind of nerf, right now it's basically a free 2nd (and on pistols 3rd) bullet with no tradeoffs whatsoever. It creates such a disparity between those players that do have them and those that don't, that it must be nearly impossible to balance content for both parties.

 

Personally, I'd rather take the more radical route and remove Multishot as a damage increasing mod, like make it so that it divides your weapon's bullets in two, each of which do 60% damage but have individual chances to be a critical or proc bullet. It significantly reduces the damage increase, but still allows for increased status/crit chances (and I'm sure DE could then proceed to implement more balanced means of acquiring a similar power level, not that we really need it).

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

No

[OniDax]

What's so wrong with it being a "free" bullet? Why fix what isn't broken? On what grounds does it need a nerf? Nerf for nerf's sake, or are you just thinking about PvP? It's almost like anything effective has to be nerfed.

Edited May 6, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Lucredis]

Then its just a fancy firing speed upgrade.

Further how would that work for shotguns and other pellet weapons?

Currently it works like this:

-Your weapon shoots 10 pellets.

-You slap on a 40% multishot

-Your weapon now shoots 14 pellets.

How would it work out using extra ammo for those types of weapons?

Would it always use an extra shell? In which case anything below 100% is a waste of a mod and worthless to equip, and the highest level (120% multishot) is also a waste.

Float value. Something like borderlands 2 vladof launchers.

[Tengu-musume]

Dark Sector times were times without space magic. Multishot had to use more bullets.

In Warframe however, I look at the names of mods as nicknames. You don't serrate ignis's flame.

I imagine multishot mods do some sci-fi modifications to the guns without actually splitting the barrel or something.

[TheBlueMagician]

It can't be denied that Multishot needs some kind of nerf, right now it's basically a free 2nd (and on pistols 3rd) bullet with no tradeoffs whatsoever. It creates such a disparity between those players that do have them and those that don't, that it must be nearly impossible to balance content for both parties.

 

Personally, I'd rather take the more radical route and remove Multishot as a damage increasing mod, like make it so that it divides your weapon's bullets in two, each of which do 60% damage but have individual chances to be a critical or proc bullet. It significantly reduces the damage increase, but still allows for increased status/crit chances (and I'm sure DE could then proceed to implement more balanced means of acquiring a similar power level, not that we really need it).

 

This just in: players who level to max level in WoW and get end-game gear have an advantage over people who just started playing.

 

More on this story as it develops.

[2T7T]

No. bullets per mag.

Burston prime+Speed trigger and Split chamber alone would use(theoretically) 114 bullets as opposed to 60. 540/114 is 4.7 magazines compared to 9. Big difference. Too big.

 

What you're trying to do is create balance when it isn't needed. There NEEDS to be some things that make you signifiantly more powerful, otherwise all the enemies would be exactly the same as we would be unable to handle more powerful ones.

Edited May 6, 2014 by FlareWingman

[Liminal]

What's so wrong with it being a "free" bullet? Why fix what isn't broken? On what grounds does it need a nerf? Nerf for nerf's sake, or are you just thinking about PvP? It's almost like anything effective has to be nerfed.

While I don't agree with the OP, mandatory mods and scaling in WF are far from "not broken"!

[Ryme]

How would Vectis work then?

[Tengu-musume]

While I don't agree with the OP, mandatory mods and scaling in WF are far from "not broken"!

Agreed...

[Paradoxbomb]

This just in: players who level to max level in WoW and get end-game gear have an advantage over people who just started playing.

 

More on this story as it develops.

 

Except for the fact that in Warframe "leveling up" is left entirely to RNG, so that's kind of a moot point. Someone at rank 1 can be lucky enough to get all the multishot mods whereas someone who's logged in hundreds of hours could still have yet to get one.

[Tsukinoki]

@The_Doc

I wouldn't call multishot mods "mandatory" by any means.

I have them, and they are maxed out.

You want to know how many weapons I use it on continuously?

5 or 6.

And I have every weapon in the game.

And you know what?

I can go into a T3S/D/MDef and come out on top of damage and kills even though I am not using the multishot mods in the vast majority of my weapons most of the time.

Sure, its a nice boost, but it is hardly mandatory.

@Lucredis

Only issue with that would be:

-Figuring out if the ammo system can handle 'floating point' ammo.

-Showing it on-screen in a way that can be tracked so that people can accurately gauge if they'll have an extra shot or will run out.

-Trying to justify that you have "101.3" shots in your shotgun left (people complain it makes no sense that multishot doesn't use extra ammo. Good luck getting them to justify that it uses fractional ammo)

Edited May 6, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Liminal]

Sure, its a nice boost, but it is hardly mandatory.

Nobody's forcing me to use Serration either, but it's a plain increase on all types of damage and any build without it is clearly inferior (regarding damage and ammo use).

 

MS is only "optional" in the Penta and Castanas.

[IANOBW]

Think of it this way: you will be making it more fair for the computer enemy :/

 

If this game was prevelant PvP, yeah. But its mostly PvE so nah, just leave it.

 

 

I think that the problem lies in some weapons' total ammo supply - e.g. whilst the viper needs all the ammo it can get, the brakk always has enough ammo. This balance needs altered.

Edited May 6, 2014 by IANOBW

[Nkomo-Sama]

Except for the fact that in Warframe "leveling up" is left entirely to RNG, so that's kind of a moot point. Someone at rank 1 can be lucky enough to get all the multishot mods whereas someone who's logged in hundreds of hours could still have yet to get one.

Either you misunderstand what leveling up means or I miunderstand your premise. Gathering experience points has very little to do with RNG unless you mean the white affinity orbs. If you are referring to mod drops then you are beating a dead horse. The great equalizer to rng is trade chat. Whoever doesn't like that can....finish this sentence. 

Edited May 6, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[Methanoid]

awesome way to make the boar prime ammo eff suck more than it already does.

[IANOBW]

awesome way to make the boar prime ammo eff suck more than it already does.

 

If what OP suggests did happen, DE would have to change all weapons' total ammo count, to balance the change i.e. give fast firing weaker weapons more ammunition whilst lowering low ROF weapons with high damage less ammo.

[Rawnrawn]

Think of it this way: you will be making it more fair for the computer enemy :/

 

If this game was prevelant PvP, yeah. But its mostly PvE so nah, just leave it.

 

 

I think that the problem lies in some weapons' total ammo supply - e.g. whilst the viper needs all the ammo it can get, the brakk always has enough ammo. This balance needs altered.

Yes, ammo needs to be changed for sure. Launchers have 540 payloads (except for the miter that uses sniper ammo and can shoot 20 spinning blades before reloading...wut?) and all pistols have the same ammo pool...

And the ammo mutation mods makes ammo managment trivial for sniper weapons.

 

In related news, in the game Dark Sector multishot sucked.

Plainly saying something "sucked" is not constructive

[Paradoxbomb]

Either you misunderstand what leveling up means or I miunderstand your premise. Gathering experience points has very little to do with RNG unless you mean the white affinity orbs. If you are referring to mod drops then you are beating a dead horse. The great equalizer to rng is trade chat. Whoever doesn't like that can....finish this sentence. 

 

Leveling up in Warframe gives you points to equip mods. Mods are found from randomly generated drops. Therefore, actually improving your warframe or weapon is still determined by RNG (you can still "level up" in the sense of gaining xp, but you can't actually upgrade yourself without the mods).

 

And while trading is possible, it shouldn't be a requirement to make up for the game's shortcomings. That's not to say that everyone should get a free Multishot either, but rather such a straight forward and potent (if not gamebreaking) boost to damage should not be packed into one mod (two for pistols but the point still stands).

Edited May 6, 2014 by Paradoxbomb