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Some Suggestions To Improve Gameplay (Edit 37: Health Regaining Improvements)

Renegade343

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Eirshy

Eirshy

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But then again, I am following trying to follow the style of the Vandal, evidenced in that section titled Snipetron Vandal: Higher accuracy, higher but more specialised damage, lower firing speed, and same reload speed compared with the proposed tweaked Snipetron. The magazine size increase is just exclusive to Sniper rifles, since I feel they need a bit of attention. 

 

But you're nerfing the reload speed in comparison to what it's at... Honestly the Snidal is and has always been more comfortable than the snipetron- when it was added it was hailed as what the Snipetron should have been haha

 

Also, I think you missed the part where I pointed out that all sniper rifles in this game have perfect accuracy. Can't make it more accurate when it's already maximally accurate =P

 

 

 

As for buffing the Lanka, she's got the disadvantages of both bows and sniper rifles, her only advantage (insane punch through) causes bugs everywhere making Hek, Ruk, Lephantis, and now even Corpus Security Turrets *immune* to her.... meanwhile bows still get rather good punch through haha

 

Giving her the crit buff alone would give her back her throne. Her max is not too far behind the bows right now, it's just her min is too low and massively too common.

Edited by TheBlueJelly
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Renegade343

Renegade343

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Also, I think you missed the part where I pointed out that all sniper rifles in this game have perfect accuracy. Can't make it more accurate when it's already maximally accurate =P

To be honest, I never used Sniper Rifles in Warframe before. I am just basing my proposed fix on watching various Warframe videos about Sniper Rifles, which seemed to be attacking the root of the problem at the time. 

 

Do not worry, I will play around with them this summer and edit the section accordingly. 

Edited by Renegade343
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Eirshy

Eirshy

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To be honest, I never used Sniper Rifles in Warframe before. I am just basing my proposed fix on watching various Warframe videos about Sniper Rifles, which seemed to be attacking the root of the problem at the time. 

 

Do not worry, I will play around with them this summer and edit the section accordingly. 

 

Yeah most people run Heavy Caliber on their snipers to get the minimum damage up, since even with the changes, unless you're running OD/OV or get one of the Earth/Phobos/Galleon tiles that actually supports it, the acc loss is pretty much ignorable.

Edited by TheBlueJelly
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Renegade343

Renegade343

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Yeah most people run Heavy Caliber on their snipers to get the minimum damage up, since even with the changes, unless you're running OD/OV or get one of the Earth/Phobos/Galleon tiles that actually supports it, the acc loss is pretty much ignorable.

Well this will be difficult.

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Renegade343

Renegade343

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Void and Derelicts both have a *lot* of tiles with enough space to snipe... break out your exterm and cap keys =P

I mean to make Snipers as viable as the other classes in CQB and to make Snipers unique. 

Edited by Renegade343
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Eirshy

Eirshy

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I mean to make Snipers as viable as the other classes in CQB and to make Snipers unique. 

 

Ah. Honestly their paradigm rebels against CQC use; making their damage more reliable will help, as would giving them variable zoom.

 

Sniper weapons aren't supposed to be go-to for CQC, they're supposed to be go-to for long range engagements.

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Renegade343

Renegade343

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Ah. Honestly their paradigm rebels against CQC use; making their damage more reliable will help, as would giving them variable zoom.

 

Sniper weapons aren't supposed to be go-to for CQC, they're supposed to be go-to for long range engagements.

Thing is, around 75% of the map tiles are rather boxed in (but decreasing with the introduction of new tiles), so I do not want to limit Snipers. But thanks for all of your suggestions. I will record them and make new changes accordingly once I play around with Snipers. 

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Casardis

Casardis

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Personally I don't have too much to add to what you proposed. I think these are good ideas, and TheBlueJelly already gave extensive feedback on a subject a bit unfamiliar to both of us, since we don't use snipers a lot. I'll just give a few general thoughts.

 

Beacons + Vay Hek + Deception + Grineer Commander

These suggestion seems like it would require more scripts from DE to make the whole "changes" work. I believe it shouldn't be a big issue in terms of programing, but I think it does show two things about DE: there's a bit too much RNG dictating everything in the game, ironically making it more monotonous than varied in certain situations; there isn't enough scripted events making changes to dialogues during missions, which could have made it much more engaging and making Lotus sound less like a broken record who gives information too late, sometimes too often.

 

It's too static at times. More scripted events and scripted changes can also good, and would allow DE to have more control on certain deliveries. RNG has its limits; they can't rely on that all the time as it puts barriers to many other things (such as skill-based gameplay).

 

 

Shock Eximus

The magnetic aura itself is, to put it bluntly, bad design. The problem with it is that the aura is barely visible (dark purple isn't the quickest color to notice), and by the time you see the purple aura around you, more than likely you'll be drained in the next millisecond due to its radius. It also doesn't help that the aura goes behind walls and covers, so sometimes you won't even notice the Eximus stuck in a corner due to wonky AI, getting you Magnetic-proc as you step near.

 

In that sense, changing it to something that makes sense with its description would be better. If DE's inclined to keep the magnetic aura, then they should make its radius bigger (while the proc range stays the same) so that we can escape it better, and have a better cue in terms of proximity to the proc range.

 

Back on Grineer Commander

A friend of mine once suggested the idea of Commanders keeping a similar switch teleport power in the form of a teleportation grenade device. They would throw two grenades at once: one falling near him and his troops, and one towards the Tenno.

 

The grenade will have a reasonable cooldown, range and sound/visual cue to make them fair. When they explode, the grenades will create a portal that lasts for a few seconds. Grineer troops will be able to use it as way to close in distance and ambush us. If a player is caught by the initial blast, they will get teleported to the other portal near the Grineer troop, blinded for less than a second, and receive a small stagger half a Roller hit's duration. However, if a Tenno isn't caught by it, they can willingly use it like teleportation device (you won't get the stagger nor the blind if you do that).

 

This could be used in order to quickly close in distance and unleash a nuke in the troops. It's a means to simulate an experienced Tenno knowing the enemy, and using their own strategy against them. That's part of player-driven gameplay tactics.

 

The only reason I'm talking about that here is because your suggestion seems to try and improve AI as a whole, which is great but not sure how easy this could be accomplished. The suggestion by my friend stays within the idea of the current AI, but gives the commander a feeling of intelligence simply from the way they use their arsenal. As long as an enemy's arsenal is designed well, giving us a feel of challenge and smarts, it might be enough for Warframe (not against better suggestions that requires more effort to be programmed though). This is also similar to what notionphil talked about in his topic on AI, which you've already read.

 

I think your idea and this one could work together too, to make the Commander more threatening but not cheap like it currently is. Just imagine being teleported in the crowd of Grineer, and the Commander makes his troops concentrate fire on you, but also imagine how surprised those bunch of idiots will be if the Tenno came from the other side willingly, unscathed, and unleash a Miasma at point blank.

 

___________________

 

...Well, I guess "a few general thoughts" went a bit longer than I expected.

Edited by Casardis
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Renegade343

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Personally I don't have too much to add to what you proposed. I think these are good ideas, and TheBlueJelly already gave extensive feedback on a subject a bit unfamiliar to both of us, since we don't use snipers a lot. I'll just give a few general thoughts.

 

Beacons + Vay Hek + Deception + Grineer Commander

These suggestion seems like it would require more scripts from DE to make the whole "changes" work. I believe it shouldn't be a big issue in terms of programing, but I think it does show two things about DE: there's a bit too much RNG dictating everything in the game, ironically making it more monotonous than varied in certain situations; there isn't enough scripted events making changes to dialogues during missions, which could have made it much more engaging and making Lotus sound less like a broken record who gives information too late, sometimes too often.

 

It's too static at times. More scripted events and scripted changes can also good, and would allow DE to have more control on certain deliveries. RNG has its limits; they can't rely on that all the time as it puts barriers to many other things (such as skill-based gameplay).

 

 

Shock Eximus

The magnetic aura itself is, to put it bluntly, bad design. The problem with it is that the aura is barely visible (dark purple isn't the quickest color to notice), and by the time you see the purple aura around you, more than likely you'll be drained in the next millisecond due to its radius. It also doesn't help that the aura goes behind walls and covers, so sometimes you won't even notice the Eximus stuck in a corner due to wonky AI, getting you Magnetic-proc as you step near.

 

In that sense, changing it to something that makes sense with its description would be better. If DE's inclined to keep the magnetic aura, then they should make its radius bigger (while the proc range stays the same) so that we can escape it better, and have a better cue in terms of proximity to the proc range.

 

Back on Grineer Commander

A friend of mine once suggested the idea of Commanders keeping a similar switch teleport power in the form of a teleportation grenade device. They would throw two grenades at once: one falling near him and his troops, and one towards the Tenno.

 

The grenade will have a reasonable cooldown, range and sound/visual cue to make them fair. When they explode, the grenades will create a portal that lasts for a few seconds. Grineer troops will be able to use it as way to close in distance and ambush us. If a player is caught by the initial blast, they will get teleported to the other portal near the Grineer troop, blinded for less than a second, and receive a small stagger half a Roller hit's duration. However, if a Tenno isn't caught by it, they can willingly use it like teleportation device (you won't get the stagger nor the blind if you do that).

 

This could be used in order to quickly close in distance and unleash a nuke in the troops. It's a means to simulate an experienced Tenno knowing the enemy, and using their own strategy against them. That's part of player-driven gameplay tactics.

 

The only reason I'm talking about that here is because your suggestion seems to try and improve AI as a whole, which is great but not sure how easy this could be accomplished. The suggestion by my friend stays within the idea of the current AI, but gives the commander a feeling of intelligence simply from the way they use their arsenal. As long as an enemy's arsenal is designed well, giving us a feel of challenge and smarts, it might be enough for Warframe (not against better suggestions that requires more effort to be programmed though). This is also similar to what notionphil talked about in his topic on AI, which you've already read.

 

I think your idea and this one could work together too, to make the Commander more threatening but not cheap like it currently is. Just imagine being teleported in the crowd of Grineer, and the Commander makes his troops concentrate fire on you, but also imagine how surprised those bunch of idiots will be if the Tenno came from the other side willingly, unscathed, and unleash a Miasma at point blank.

 

___________________

 

...Well, I guess "a few general thoughts" went a bit longer than I expected.

With the Beacon suggestion: Since DE has the code for rewarding items after Spy Missions, I believe just by altering the reward table to drop Beacons in Ceres Spy Missions should not be a problem at all. The new transcripts can be made easily. Just utilise the mechanism for the Lotus broadcasting to us at the start of the mission, but set a few if-then checks to broadcast my written transcripts. 

 

And what about the Resource change that I asked about? I really need feedback on that one, as I am not sure if it works. 

Edited by Renegade343
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Casardis

Casardis

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Neural Sensor VS Neurodes

Actually, I think it's not the pictures that should be swapped, but the descriptions. Neural Sensors should have the description of "neural-link" and "Grineer design," while the Neurodes (artificial neuron) would have the description of it harvested from Infested. In that sense, your suggestion for resources may need to be swapped, if you agreed to what I'm saying of course.

 

Resources

I like the idea of removing certain clan tech resources from planets, and making certain only drop 3 kind. That way, it's easier to find the things one's looking for. My only concern is how some planets will still have high favor due to high demand in resources (some planets in your suggestions have two rare drops together, as well as one uncommon, etc.), while some other planets, like Eris, have little to no drops that people actually look for.

 

One can argue that it's great for those needing the more common drops in bulks, of course, and it might be good for Extractors to do their job better depending on the planets, so my concern can be refuted.

 

As for research resources, I think it could be done. They were able to program Oxium Ospreys to drop Oxium anyway, and even the Void crates have a chance to drop Oxium, despite not being listed. It shouldn't be too hard to change the drop and it would make more sense. However, what will happen if most nodes are controlled by a faction? For example, is it okay to make it harder to get, say, Detonite Ampule, because the Corpus may manage to rule the system at some point? I know Boss nodes will still be available, but this is still a legitimate question.

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Renegade343

Renegade343

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Neural Sensor VS Neurodes

Actually, I think it's not the pictures that should be swapped, but the descriptions. Neural Sensors should have the description of "neural-link" and "Grineer design," while the Neurodes (artificial neuron) would have the description of it harvested from Infested. In that sense, your suggestion for resources may need to be swapped, if you agreed to what I'm saying of course.

Yes. That makes sense actually. I must have forgotten their descriptions while I was typing that up. I'll fix it along with the drop location changes.

 

 

Resources

I like the idea of removing certain clan tech resources from planets, and making certain only drop 3 kind. That way, it's easier to find the things one's looking for. My only concern is how some planets will still have high favor due to high demand in resources (some planets in your suggestions have two rare drops together, as well as one uncommon, etc.), while some other planets, like Eris, have little to no drops that people actually look for.

 

One can argue that it's great for those needing the more common drops in bulks, of course, and it might be good for Extractors to do their job better depending on the planets, so my concern can be refuted.

 

As for research resources, I think it could be done. They were able to program Oxium Ospreys to drop Oxium anyway, and even the Void crates have a chance to drop Oxium, despite not being listed. It shouldn't be too hard to change the drop and it would make more sense. However, what will happen if most nodes are controlled by a faction? For example, is it okay to make it harder to get, say, Detonite Ampule, because the Corpus may manage to rule the system at some point? I know Boss nodes will still be available, but this is still a legitimate question.

My resource drop relocation is based on the lore of the Corpus/Grineer, along with improving new player experience by providing them everything to build a new Warframe by the time they get to Jupiter, in mind. How about these changes (coupled with above change as well): 

 

- Mercury will drop Ferrite, Alloy Plates and Morphics (same as my proposed change). 

- Venus will drop Polymer Bundles, Circuits and Control Modules (same as my proposed change). 

- Earth will drop Ferrite, Rubedo and Neural Sensors. This can be coupled with my idea of Decoy Vay Hek Boss, making him have a higher than average chance of dropping Neural Sensors. 

- Saturn will drop Alloy Plates, Circuits and Orokin Cells (The Grineer troops are first created in Earth, then those who show exceptional marks in their training get transported to Saturn to train and upgrade them into Elite Troops [Elite Lancers, Bombards etc.]. This will be my justification to correspond to the flavour text).

- Mars will drop Nano Spores, Salvage, Morphics and Gallium (same as my proposed change). 

- Jupiter will drop Alloy Plates, Nano Spores, Plastids and Neurodes. Alad V (or a placeholder boss, given the current alerts) will have a higher than average chance of dropping Neurodes.

- Europa will drop Salvage, Rubedo and Control Modules (since this planet was once Infested-controlled before the Corpus wiped them out, the Corpus picked up Salvage from the fallen troops and settlements in order to provide abundant material for sustaining a second Robotics R&D base. The flavour text is changed to: The Corpus has branched its Robotics R&D into here.)

- Sedna will drop Ferrite, Rubedo and Salvage. 

- Phobos will drop Rubedo, Plastids, Salvage and Neural Sensors. (Since this is an abandoned settlement, it can be implied that there is an Infested outbreak here before the Grineer wiped them out and took control, inferred from the salvage (equipment from fallen defenders) and the Plastids (Infested tissue))

- Eris will drop Ferrite, Polymer Bundles and Gallium (Flavour text is changed to: The Corpus has hidden its weapons R&D on this planet). 

- Neptune will drop Ferrite, Control Modules and Orokin Cells (same as my proposed change). 

- Ceres will drop Alloy Plates, Circuits, Ferrite and Polymer Bundles (ship building requires both metal and plastics to make a Grineer Ship). 

- Uranus will drop Nano Spores, Polymer Bundles, Plastids and Neurodes, and Tyl Regor will have a higher than average chance of dropping Neurodes. 

- Pluto will drop Rubedo, Circuits, Alloy Plates and Morphics.

- Orokin Derelict ships will have a common drop of Nano Spores and Plastids, with the rare resource based on faction (Infested = Neurodes, Grineer = Neural Sensors, Corpus = Gallium, Corrputed = Orokin Cell) (I am not sure if this will work, but this is the best idea I have at the moment).

 

Total Tally of resource drop locations: 

 

Alloy Plates: 5 locations (Mercury, Saturn, Jupiter, Ceres, Pluto)

Ferrite: 5 locations (Mercury, Earth, Sedna, Neptune, Ceres)

Nano Spores: 4 locations (Mars, Jupiter, Uranus, Orokin Derelict)

Polymer Bundles: 4 locations (Venus, Eris, Ceres, Uranus)

Salvage: 4 locations (Mars, Sedna, Europa, Phobos)

Circuits: 4 locations (Venus, Saturn, Ceres, Pluto)

Plastids: 4 locations (Jupiter, Phobos, Uranus, Orokin Derelict)

Rubedo: 5 locations (Earth, Europa, Sedna, Phobos, Pluto)

Control Module: 3 locations (Venus, Europa, Neptune)

Gallium: 3 locations (Mars, Eris, Orokin Derelict if Corpus)

Morphics: 3 locations (Mercury, Mars, Pluto)

Neural Sensors: 3 locations (Earth, Phobos, Orokin Derelict if Grineer)

Neurodes: 3 locations (Jupiter, Uranus, Orokin Derelict if Infested)

Orokin Cells: 3 locations (Saturn, Neptune, Orokin Derelict if Corrputed [as the Corrupted in this ship are augmented to fight against anyone who has stolen from the Vaults, unlike the ones seen at the Orokin Void towers])

 

The Orokin Void Towers will be considered very soon, since I cannot think of a good way to change its resource drops.

 

EDIT: The Orokin Void Towers will drop only Rare Materials, but only to an enemy (listed below) (Will have a lower drop chance to balance it): 

- Corrupted Lancer: Neural Sensors

- Corrupted Crewman: Gallium

- Corrupted Fusion MOA: Control Module

- Corrupted Heavy Gunner: Orokin Cell (since she must been augmented with something, given that she has twice the health of a normal Heavy Gunner)

- Orokin Drone: Morphics

- Corrupted Ancient: Neurodes

 

These will be dropped in quantities of 1-3.

 

That way, it should give a bit more incentive for people to run the Towers for obtaining Rare Materials instead of just obtaining Prime parts, letting underused keys such as T2 Survival to be back on the table. 

 

With this change, I hope that it should bring some balance to the material drops and allow more chances for rare materials to drop, making it easier to obtain. 

 

Referring to your worries about research-based drops being difficult to obtain if one faction rules to Star Chart, be reminded that there are two planets that are permanently controlled by the Grineer and one planet permanently controlled by the Corpus, so you can still obtain Detonite Ampules and Fieldron Samples without worry. However, your worry is valid, and I will try to think of a way to counter that. 

 

EDIT: How about if the opposing faction of a planet owns over 50% of a planet (e.g.: Corpus owning over 50% of Uranus nodes), then the nodes that the opposing faction owns will have its enemies having a chance to drop both its own research resource and the research resource of the defender (Using the above example again: Since Uranus is the Grineer's world, if the Corpus owns over 50% of the nodes in Uranus, then it has equal chances of dropping Fieldron Samples and Detonite Ampules [as the Corpus has collected Grineer weaponry for research to make better equipment], while the nodes still under Grineer control will just drop Detonite Ampules. Infested will drop Mutagen Samples only no matter what.

 

This should be easy to implement, as this requires a few more if-then checks for my new proposed mechanism above to work. 

Edited by Renegade343
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