Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[The_Lunatic_]

To ask a question towards those whom seem to feel they are entitled to Founder's Cosmetics.

 

 

Why would DE risk the ire of Founders in order to provide a weapon skin?

[Mesyra]

To ask a question towards those whom seem to feel they are entitled to Founder's Cosmetics.

 

 

Why would DE risk the ire of Founders in order to provide a weapon skin?

no one is saying they are entitled to anything, this is an assumption made by you and a number of other people. 

 

no where in my original post did I discuss the models of these weapons. they could be different models, or they could be the same, it would make no difference to most people, there is only a select few that seem to keep thinking this, please read some of the many suggestions made on the thread about solutions to the issues with founders thinking these are the founders weapons, and benefits to the founders that are completely unnecessary but appreciated.

 

there can be a special aura for these akimbo versions available to founder only, and a 50% resource reduction cost for them, they could even come pre potato'd for founders. there are many solutions to make this beneficial to both parties 

 

the only "risk" DE would be taking with this is the fact that this still wouldnt fix the mastery issue, unless they linked the founders variants to these akimbo variantwith the mastery EXP.

[OniDax]

Where did they promise exclusivity on the design of the weapons? The founders site clearly said that you were getting exclusive items.  As in the three items that were included in the founders program.

 

You want a refund.  Even if you get past the issue of whether or not you actually deserve it, do you seriously think that the exclusives made up that much of the founders packs actual monetary value?  Was the massively discounted plat worth nothing?

 

They didn't say. That's why I've asked DEDrew. Because they haven't said. The entire reason I am suggesting something other than a release of dual variants is because the whole issue, whether you agree or not, is in the title of this thread. It's a solution to people wanting Founders weapons. It's all about the issue of Founders items (and yes, there are more people who have complained about not having access to ALL Founders items; it has never just been about the weapons). So what I'm trying to say is that the only real "solution", if getting these items in the hands of non-Founders is the goal, is to find a way to compensate the Founders. Yes, the bulk of what the Founders paid for was exclusivity and platinum. The plat for Grandmaster (want to talk about the highest value) was considered a $400 value. The rest of the items (so without plat) a $200 value. Without the solar landmark, Lato Prime, and 8 guest beta keys (the Master tier), that was a $75 value. See where I'm going with this? Even without the plat, it's still worth a good bit.

 

People will be complaining about not having these items even if there are dual versions of the weapons, because it's not just about the weapons. And while the thread is about a fix for people wanting the weapons, since it hasn't ever been just about them, it's really not a fix, or rather it's an incomplete "fix". And if we're honest, this isn't about fixing anything, as there really isn't anything that needs fixing. It's about appeasing those who don't like the exclusivity of these items. So if the goal is to appease these people, then the only way that will happen is a re-release of these items. But there should be no re-release without compensating Founders. Hence my suggestion, and what I've said I really want to happen.

 

Since a re-release isn't an option, sure, this can be called a "fix", but that depends on DE's view of this exclusivity.

 

VYR3, the whole reason I bring up the model and texture of these weapons is because that's precisely how people recognize these weapons. So yes, there will be plenty of people who will want these weapons for the look of them. Not everyone wants these items for the mastery. And I find it hard to believe they want them for the stats. If they didn't look like the single variants, they'd only be dual versions in name only. They could be Aklex Prime and Akdakra Prime if they looked nothing like the single versions. You really can't downplay the visual aspect of these weapons. The model and texture, therefore, is part of the identity of these items.

 

You release an Aksicarus Prime and call it the Aklato Prime, and everyone will tell you that it's an Aksicarus Prime.

Edited June 10, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Aggh]

To ask a question towards those whom seem to feel they are entitled to Founder's Cosmetics.

 

 

Why would DE risk the ire of Founders in order to provide a weapon skin?

Because they aren't founders cosmetics and DE shouldn't have to cave to any demographic of the player base every time they throw a hissy over a perceived entitlement that has no basis in fact.

 

 

 

They didn't say. That's why I've asked DEDrew. Because they haven't said. The entire reason I am suggesting something other than a release of dual variants is because the whole issue, whether you agree or not, is in the title of this thread. It's a solution to people wanting Founders weapons. It's all about the issue of Founders items (and yes, there are more people who have complained about not having access to ALL Founders items; it has never just been about the weapons). So what I'm trying to say is that the only real "solution", if getting these items in the hands of non-Founders is the goal, is to find a way to compensate the Founders. Yes, the bulk of what the Founders paid for was exclusivity and platinum. The plat for Grandmaster (want to talk about the highest value) was considered a $400 value. The rest of the items (so without plat) a $200 value. Without the solar landmark, Lato Prime, and 8 guest beta keys (the Master tier), that was a $75 value. See where I'm going with this? Even without the plat, it's still worth a good bit.

 

People will be complaining about not having these items even if there are dual versions of the weapons, because it's not just about the weapons. And while the thread is about a fix for people wanting the weapons, since it hasn't ever been just about them, it's really not a fix, or rather it's an incomplete "fix". And if we're honest, this isn't about fixing anything, as there really isn't anything that needs fixing. It's about appeasing those who don't like the exclusivity of these items. So if the goal is to appease these people, then the only way that will happen is a re-release of these items. But there should be no re-release without compensating Founders. Hence my suggestion, and what I've said I really want to happen.

 

Since a re-release isn't an option, sure, this can be called a "fix", but that depends on DE's view of this exclusivity.

They didn't say because they didn't make the promise.  Look at every single other limited time item.  If they have guaranteed the exclusivity of an item they have come out an said it.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Aggh

[The_Lunatic_]

no one is saying they are entitled to anything, this is an assumption made by you and a number of other people. 

 

no where in my original post did I discuss the models of these weapons. they could be different models, or they could be the same, it would make no difference to most people, there is only a select few that seem to keep thinking this, please read some of the many suggestions made on the thread about solutions to the issues with founders thinking these are the founders weapons, and benefits to the founders that are completely unnecessary but appreciated.

 

there can be a special aura for these akimbo versions available to founder only, and a 50% resource reduction cost for them, they could even come pre potato'd for founders. there are many solutions to make this beneficial to both parties 

 

the only "risk" DE would be taking with this is the fact that this still wouldnt fix the mastery issue, unless they linked the founders variants to these akimbo variantwith the mastery EXP.

 

Yes, but, they're obvious the founder's weapons but two of them.

 

This is how many founders and ordinary players will see it. This is not about why you feel it's justified, it's about why you feel DE should &!$$ off founders in order to provide "Others" with a cosmetic skin for a pair of pistols.

 

The Founders put their faith in DE when they helped to found the game. DE would be extremely wise not to betray this trust with technicalities.

 

So, why do you feel that they would do this? And why do you feel they'd even consider it?

 

Why would they &!$$ed off a large portion of people whom paid for a weapon in order to provide it for free?

 

 

Especially when there are so many other options for weapons in this weapon group, and not only that, distinctly better weapons.

 

You're talking about mastery and cosmetics, but, you've not suggested any reasons why any of these things matter nor why it's worth &!$$ing off the founders to add it in the first place.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Cingal

[The_Lunatic_]

Because they aren't founders cosmetics and DE shouldn't have to cave to any demographic of the player base every time they throw a hissy over a perceived entitlement that has no basis in fact.

 

If you're incapable of answering the question, please do not clog up the thread.

 

Thanks.

[Mesyra]

Changed the title of the thread.

[Aggh]

They didn't say. That's why I've asked DEDrew. Because they haven't said. The entire reason I am suggesting something other than a release of dual variants is because the whole issue, whether you agree or not, is in the title of this thread. It's a solution to people wanting Founders weapons. It's all about the issue of Founders items (and yes, there are more people who have complained about not having access to ALL Founders items; it has never just been about the weapons). So what I'm trying to say is that the only real "solution", if getting these items in the hands of non-Founders is the goal, is to find a way to compensate the Founders. Yes, the bulk of what the Founders paid for was exclusivity and platinum. The plat for Grandmaster (want to talk about the highest value) was considered a $400 value. The rest of the items (so without plat) a $200 value. Without the solar landmark, Lato Prime, and 8 guest beta keys (the Master tier), that was a $75 value. See where I'm going with this? Even without the plat, it's still worth a good bit.

 

People will be complaining about not having these items even if there are dual versions of the weapons, because it's not just about the weapons. And while the thread is about a fix for people wanting the weapons, since it hasn't ever been just about them, it's really not a fix, or rather it's an incomplete "fix". And if we're honest, this isn't about fixing anything, as there really isn't anything that needs fixing. It's about appeasing those who don't like the exclusivity of these items. So if the goal is to appease these people, then the only way that will happen is a re-release of these items. But there should be no re-release without compensating Founders. Hence my suggestion, and what I've said I really want to happen.

 

Since a re-release isn't an option, sure, this can be called a "fix", but that depends on DE's view of this exclusivity.

 

VYR3, the whole reason I bring up the model and texture of these weapons is because that's precisely how people recognize these weapons. So yes, there will be plenty of people who will want these weapons for the look of them. Not everyone wants these items for the mastery. And I find it hard to believe they want them for the stats. If they didn't look like the single variants, they'd only be dual versions in name only. They could be Aklex Prime and Akdakra Prime if they looked nothing like the single versions. You really can't downplay the visual aspect of these weapons.

Founders items/exclusives were never given a monetary value.  Beta keys especially would never have a monetary value associated or assigned to them.  Only the amount of plat was given a value in the advertisement.

 

You're getting awfully caught up on the concept of whether this a fix or not.  That's not really relevant to whether DE has a right to release these weapons or not.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Aggh

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Changed the title of the thread.

 

Just my mind being itself here, but personally I'd suggest a slight change to the new title from "Releasing the Aklato and Skana Prime." to instead be "Thoughts on releasing the Aklato Prime and Dual Skana Prime."  Whilst of course retaining the civility disclaimer.

 

Mainly for additional clarity for those who only read thread titles and not much of the actual post content.

[OniDax]

Founders items/exclusives were never given a monetary value.  Beta keys especially would never have a monetary value associated or assigned to them.

 

Well, again here's my point about the aesthetics:

 

You release an Aksicarus Prime and call it the Aklato Prime, and everyone will tell you that it's an Aksicarus Prime.

 

About Founders items not given a monetary value, what is given a monetary value in this? Because it isn't just the platinum.

 

[MeduSalem]

Somehow I just wish a DE member would post "Dual/Akimbo versions are going to be part of the next Prime access", price it out for another 250 bucks and be done with it. It's not like there are much other viable solutions to this other than sticking to what has been said about the Founders Gear already "maybe when the sun is about to implode."

Edited June 10, 2014 by MeduSalem

[RoboDoge]

Somehow I just wish a DE member would post "Dual/Akimbo versions are going to be part of the next Prime access" and be done with it. It's not like there are much other viable solutions to this other than sticking to what has been said about the Founders Gear already "maybe when the sun is about implode."

I did PM Megan about this issue, but no answer yet.

 

 

Well, i can wait for one anyway.

[Mesyra]

Yes, but, they're obvious the founder's weapons but two of them.

 

This is how many founders and ordinary players will see it. This is not about why you feel it's justified, it's about why you feel DE should &!$$ off founders in order to provide "Others" with a cosmetic skin for a pair of pistols.

 

The Founders put their faith in DE when they helped to found the game. DE would be extremely wise not to betray this trust with technicalities.

 

So, why do you feel that they would do this? And why do you feel they'd even consider it?

 

Why would they &!$$ed off a large portion of people whom paid for a weapon in order to provide it for free?

 

 

Especially when there are so many other options for weapons in this weapon group, and not only that, distinctly better weapons.

 

You're talking about mastery and cosmetics, but, you've not suggested any reasons why any of these things matter nor why it's worth &!$$ing off the founders to add it in the first place.

I feel they should do this because no part of your purchase, because it was not a contract nor an agreement technically, only a purchase of a product, and also because these weapons do not exist and they should.

 

why do you feel that DE should NOT consider doing this, and why do you feel that you are entitled to something you never paid for, they have many items that they have released, then released better. Grinlok and Marelok for example, and this happens in a lot of games. in blacklight retribution, the SMG and then the TAC and BF SMGs (yes I know this game is dead) Planteside 2, the NS-7 PDW and the MKV suppressed, it happens in many games. it can happen here.

[MeduSalem]

I did PM Megan about this issue, but no answer yet.

 

 

Well, i can wait for one anyway.

 

Oh well then... I'm able to wait too, if I want them at all. ^^

Edited June 10, 2014 by MeduSalem

[OniDax]

Yeah, I think they're planning on releasing these considering they've allowed discussion on it for this long instead of outright saying yes or no to it, so yeah MeduSalem, they should just get it over with. Oh, and no, exclusivity doesn't extend to any variants. I just want to know on what grounds, then, is it breaking the Founders agreement for them to release a new Prime weapon that looks just like the Lato Prime or Skana Prime. Because it'd be a separate item.

[Soulie]

I feel it would be a bit of a slap in the face to founders, if de came out with better versions of their exclusive weapons. So, while i'd love to have them, i think its not a good idea.

[The_Lunatic_]

I feel they should do this because no part of your purchase, because it was not a contract nor an agreement technically, only a purchase of a product, and also because these weapons do not exist and they should.

 

why do you feel that DE should NOT consider doing this, and why do you feel that you are entitled to something you never paid for, they have many items that they have released, then released better. Grinlok and Marelok for example, and this happens in a lot of games. in blacklight retribution, the SMG and then the TAC and BF SMGs (yes I know this game is dead) Planteside 2, the NS-7 PDW and the MKV suppressed, it happens in many games. it can happen here.

 

But they were. They shoved a big picture of a Lato and Skana prime and were like "Yo, you get this too".

 

Either way, it's obviously too close to the border.

 

And that is still not answering the question. Why these weapons specifically. Why not other weapons? Why not new weapons?

 

Why not new primed pistols? Why not new primed swords? Why these ones specifically? Is it because you can't have them?

 

That's kinda what it's sounding like. You are giving no reasons why specifically DE needs to release the Aklato primes over any other dual pistols. You are especially not providing any reason why they should annoy Founders in the process.

 

I think DE should not consider it because it will piss off founders, whom they owe a debt of gratitude towards for helping start the game out. And as this thread has proven. Founders will feel betrayed by them doing so.

[Mesyra]

Just my mind being itself here, but personally I'd suggest a slight change to the new title from "Releasing the Aklato and Skana Prime." to instead be "Thoughts on releasing the Aklato Prime and Dual Skana Prime."  Whilst of course retaining the civility disclaimer.

 

Mainly for additional clarity for those who only read thread titles and not much of the actual post content.

Very good idea, I have changed it.

[Doom_Bunny]

I did PM Megan about this issue, but no answer yet.

 

 

Well, i can wait for one anyway.

As admins they convey the final say from DE. So it may take a while as they get the idea to the people in DE it concerns then discuss it and reply back to us. Mean while we've got to try and keep this thread clean. It's going to be a long wait.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Postal_pat

[Aggh]

Well, again here's my point about the aesthetics:

 

You release an Aksicarus Prime and call it the Aklato Prime, and everyone will tell you that it's an Aksicarus Prime.

 

About Founders items not given a monetary value, what is given a monetary value in this? Because it isn't just the platinum.

 

No, depending on what was announced in the patch notes, every one will ask if there is a bug with the name or the model and functionality.  Because AKlato isn't a burst fire gun.

 

 Without an actually assigned monetary value DE could refund you any amount they wished.  Or none at all.  Maybe the badge has a value of $75?

Edited June 10, 2014 by Aggh

[Mesyra]

But they were. They shoved a big picture of a Lato and Skana prime and were like "Yo, you get this too".

they showed you the aklato prime and dual skana prime in this image?

 

[OniDax]

But they were. They shoved a big picture of a Lato and Skana prime and were like "Yo, you get this too".

 

Either way, it's obviously too close to the border.

 

And that is still not answering the question. Why these weapons specifically. Why not other weapons? Why not new weapons?

 

Why not new primed pistols? Why not new primed swords? Why these ones specifically? Is it because you can't have them?

 

That's kinda what it's sounding like. You are giving no reasons why specifically DE needs to release the Aklato primes over any other dual pistols. You are especially not providing any reason why they should annoy Founders in the process.

 

I think DE should not consider it because it will &!$$ off founders, whom they owe a debt of gratitude towards for helping start the game out. And as this thread has proven. Founders will feel betrayed by them doing so.

 

Been trying to get this across. Why the Aklato Prime and Dual Skanas Prime if the models don't matter? Why not have a Dual Dakra Prime and name it the Dual Skanas Prime? Because the models do matter and people want weapons that look like the Founders weapons. That's what it really is all about. There's nothing in the name of the weapons themselves. It's about nothing but the looks. If it were about the mastery, then any weapon would be satisfactory. But it's specifically a request for dual versions of the Founders weapons because no other weapons in the game look like these weapons.

[The_Lunatic_]

No, every will ask if there is a bug with the name or the model and functionality.  Because AKlato isn't a burst fire gun.

 

 Without an actually assigned monetary value DE could refund you any amount they wished.  Or none at all.  Maybe the badge has a value of $75?

 

Also, they don't state the name of the weapon. They show an image of it.

 

Which clearly means they were selling the look of the weapon. And not specifying it was "Ak" or a single weapon.

 

 

Thus, they clearly were selling it as aesthetic.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

I have a thought that's just partially in line with what's going on here.  It somewhat fits in with the ideas present in the topic so I'm gonna just bring it up regardless since it's not really a negative point.

 

The original non-prime Lato as is seen in that one concept art picture is pretty much stellar looking whilst being clearly not the same weapon.  So my thought here is simple;  Release that Lato under a new name, Lato V2 or something of the sort as a gun (normal market, not clan tech) with noticeably greater stats and a Mastery rank prerequisite, possibly around MR 10.  At the same exact time buff the Lato Prime so that its stats are in line with this new Lato.

 

Now everyone has a moderate magazine sized semi-automatic pistol that doesn't blow and looks gnarly.  It still doesn't really appease everyone of course, but no such idea exists.  Founders still have a weapon that is clearly unique and theirs in appearance, but not functionality.  Everyone has a worthwhile pistol.

 

It also doesn't really say anything for the Skana Prime of course, but honestly I dig pistols and there's no such concept art for a non-prime Skana like that.

[The_Lunatic_]

they showed you the aklato prime and dual skana prime in this image?

 

 

Possibly.

 

Perhaps they're behind the single variants. I can't possibly say.