Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[Rakosta_Kai]

I find my self quoting sparrohawk.

And if any portion of that quote fit my statement it would make sense.

 

Alas, it doesn't...

[Kartumterek]

Same can be said for founders why would they even need a freebie of getting discounts to weapons they have no claim over. Just because they feel its sneaky they have a reason? The same could be applied to the people who feel mastery will make a difference in the future even if 12k wont be much on the higher ranks. So the non founder feeling of wanting some equilibrium for mastery isn't a real reason?

 

Mind you both sound pretty stupid to me. (both have merits in some form, but now we are all into respecting each others feelings when we already are trampling over each other) As neither is a reason beyond feelings. As dual aren't the same as single and people will just have to get used to some mastery gap. If you want to solve problems giving benefits for 1 group on 1 thing for their feelings. Means you have to give benefits to another for their complaints. (as if its not over 1 thing its another and the complaining will never cease) IE if the complaint over mastery is nothing and isn't a real reason to do it neither would be compensating founders in any way for releasing dual variants because they look alike.

 

I only state this because if DE wants to try to be fair to everyone they have to be very very careful on how they do such a thing. (well at least to quiet all of the whining and moaning over this issue) If the mastery differences were settled and the exclusivity of certain weapons and their mastery was settled there would be less whining over what is and is not available. So if one side seeks some sort of compensation and the other side doesn't for their problem then something will still be whined over. As I don't think DE would like anyone angry or upset but its very hard to please everyone (however it doesn't mean they shouldn't at least try to do it)

 

 

 

Now after stating that the only way to stop most of the complaints over exclusivity would be for DE to do a little giving spree. (most being because they will eventually find something to complain about as well as still complain about the original founders pack)

 

If they were to take the suggestion in the thread about halving the costs for making dual versions of founders weaps/giving a special glow it would be a nice gesture to the founders for using the likeness of the lato/skana prime. This would solve some of the shiny shiny issue for people who want something similar. However it will not solve the issue of excalibur or people wanting the original models. In addition to that if they were to make all further exclusive weapons have no mastery value and give equivalent mastery for the limited time/exclusive weapons a person doesn't own then we kill that little mastery argument. This itself is a nice gesture to everyone founders and non founders alike for those who don't have limited time/exclusive items. Or they can just plain re release the limited time items like the wraiths and vandals into the drop table. OD missions could be used for that since void is full as it is and give 12k mastery. 

 

This would solve any mastery and likeness disputes. Again however it will not solve the shiny shiny part of lato/skana/excal prime not being in the hands of non founders. They could stick to the no part because they have made it that way and have stuck to that for a while. (again ofc there will always be complaining about it) And is in short what could be the better solution to lessening the heat over this since everyone is getting something. Ofc that is just short of re releasing exclusives which would be DE breaking their own word which I wouldn't want them to do.

So that whole block of text with all the freebies you mention and you agree that it would fix nothing because ppl would still complain. What's the point

[Aggh]

And if any portion of that quote fit my statement it would make sense.

 

Alas, it doesn't...

The lack of critical thinking skills on these forums is a appalling :|

 

this:

 

All I can say is that DE has set themselves up at this point... I hope they have a nifty plan worked out.

 

The option is a lot of hurt feelings and a damaged reputation otherwise.

Can easily be read as a threat to DE.

[OniDax]

On the basis of exclusivity that doesn't exist.  They feel their opinion on the matter is important enough to warrant that these weapons not be released.  It's entirely reasonable to infer that they believe that their opinion is special due to a sense of entitlment they have due to the exclusive nature of founders items.

 

 

Tell me how believing you deserve a refund isn't you feeling entitled to something.  You have no enttlement to even a single cent from the sales of these weapons.

 

 

 

So why shouldn't DE be able to release these weapons and earn buckets of money from their inclusion in prime access packs?

 

Say something other than exclusivity since even DE has said that's not necessarily applicable here.

 

Why'd you quote a 5 day old post by me? If you've paid attention, you will have noticed that I've slightly changed my position on that. But of course you'd do that. The point I was making was that, if DE was going to release something that potentially violated their agreement (dual versions), then yes, Founders should receive some kind of refund. Now we know for certain that exclusivity doesn't apply to variants, no thanks to you of course who has brought nothing but hostility to this thread.

 

As for the particular comment, YES, if DE actually re-releases the Founders stuff (literally "the Founders stuff" - Lato Prime, Skana Prime, Excalibur Prime), then they SHOULD refund the Founders. As was agreed upon, it might not be money as they'd lose a whole lot of money, but something else. That whole comment was part of a solution I suggested, where they re-release all the founders stuff, refund the Founders via a couple electable options (plat, free Prime Access, etc), and then everyone has access to the founders stuff and you could still have dual weapons. I mentioned that this would be my preferable solution, but can't happen because DE won't re-release the Founders stuff. But you knew that already as you were on the thread when I made those suggestions. So WHY are you trying to drag up old comments out of context? Stop trying to start crap by being overly hostile. If you'd kept up with this thread, you'd know that we got confirmation from DEDrew that the restrictions do NOT extend to the dual weapons, and EVERYONE agreed on that. So NO, I do NOT think the restrictions extend to the dual versions. You need to get your facts straight before you start laying down accusations. Things were a lot better before you decided to return to this thread. Maybe you should stay away since YOU obviously can't be bothered to read through the several pages of comments to see what opinions others have.

[dragonkingdx]

So that whole block of text with all the freebies you mention and you agree that it would fix nothing because ppl would still complain. What's the point

People complain regardless its just human nature. It would lessen most of the complaints based on the arguments presented in the thread. I'm a fan of less whining over more whining :S

[Rakosta_Kai]

Honestly, I'd be pretty happy if we just got a Dragon Excal. The Prime part isn't what gets me, it's the fact that he's a better Excal. I posted on an earlier page about them just releasing a Dragon Skana and Lato and tying thier mastery to the Founders stuff to shut the mastery hogs up and not release the dual versions. I wonder what a Dragon Excal or a Dexcalibur would even look like?

The problem is that they (pc members) don't rate it.

There may be some level of inequality (Players joining after the cutoff and etc.) but there is no real or perceived inequity that can be applied to this issue...

With exception to ps4 and xbox.

 

They are actually due something. Prime, Dex, or Dragon ... The console folks are due something exclusive.

 

But the bulk of posters making a fuss in this thread aren't console players though, are they?

 

The pc members arguing the points in this thread like to make out like it's about Lato or Skana prime variants, but at the end of the day it really isn't.

Let's be honest... Who in their right mind would take a AK Lato Prime or Dual Skana Prime into a T3?  Who would make this noise for swag you won't use?

 

It's about Excalibur Prime... It's always been about Excal Prime.

 

Once a precedent has been set, these delightful posters know that it can be pushed in that direction.

 

My original stance remains...

 

Dual and AK Primes? Yup, go for it.

Provided everyone understands that automatic bans accompany arguments for Excal Prime's release.

 

Hence PC members get what they asked for without, ultimately, getting what they wanted. And the forums get one less moot point to argue about.

[Aggh]

Why'd you quote a 5 day old post by me? If you've paid attention, you will have noticed that I've slightly changed my position on that. But of course you'd do that. The point I was making was that, if DE was going to release something that potentially violated their agreement (dual versions), then yes, Founders should receive some kind of refund. Now we know for certain that exclusivity doesn't apply to variants, no thanks to you of course who has brought nothing but hostility to this thread.

 

As for the particular comment, YES, if DE actually re-releases the Founders stuff (literally "the Founders stuff" - Lato Prime, Skana Prime, Excalibur Prime), then they SHOULD refund the Founders. As was agreed upon, it might not be money as they'd lose a whole lot of money, but something else. That whole comment was part of a solution I suggested, where they re-release all the founders stuff, refund the Founders via a couple electable options (plat, free Prime Access, etc), and then everyone has access to the founders stuff and you could still have dual weapons. I mentioned that this would be my preferable solution, but can't happen because DE won't re-release the Founders stuff. But you knew that already as you were on the thread when I made those suggestions. So WHY are you trying to drag up old comments out of context? Stop trying to start crap by being overly hostile. If you'd kept up with this thread, you'd know that we got confirmation from DEDrew that the restrictions do NOT extend to the dual weapons, and EVERYONE agreed on that. So NO, I do NOT think the restrictions extend to the dual versions. You need to get your facts straight before you start laying down accusations. Things were a lot better before you decided to return to this thread. Maybe you should stay away since YOU obviously can't be bothered to read through the several pages of comments to see what opinions others have.

Oop.  Had an old tab open.  Thought it was strange you had changed your mind.  My bad.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Aggh

[Kartumterek]

People complain regardless its just human nature. It would lessen most of the complaints based on the arguments presented in the thread. I'm a fan of less whining over more whining :S

It would lessen nothing. We have something someone else doesn't. Anything new that you get I can get also. It won't fix anything. Ppl need to just deal with it and move on. Ppl advocating DE to sell their integrity need to look at what they are asking for

[dragonkingdx]

It would lessen nothing. We have something someone else doesn't. Anything new that you get I can get also. It won't fix anything. Ppl need to just deal with it and move on. Ppl advocating DE to sell their integrity need to look at what they are asking for

Yeah ummm it would lessen something. It would take any argument over mastery advantage founders/older players have for that focus system (whenever they want to make that idea real) And it would shut this loophole argument up quite nicely. Or when will we see another loophole thread or mastery difference thread? 1 month maybe 2? Would bite the idea of the exclusive double variants in the head and would kill the only real loophole that could be exploited with the founders pack. (besides some variation of excal)

 

I find it odd people complain about people complaining. But then complain that any solution suggested that would solve some form of complaining wouldn't solve the complaining in a whole so its not even worth trying to fix since complaining would still exist.

[DJ_Redwire]

Yeah ummm it would lessen something. It would take any argument over mastery advantage founders/older players have for that focus system (whenever they want to make that idea real) And it would shut this loophole argument up quite nicely.

 

I'll break this down mathematically for you. (hypothetical values)

 

Non-founder mastery points player A has: 100,000

Founder member mastery points player B has (Lato, Skana): 106,000

 

Add: AkLato Prime (3000), Dual Skana Primes (3000)

 

A: 100,000 + (3000 + 3000) = 106,000

B: 106,000 + (3000 + 3000) = 112,000

 

New non-founder mastery points player A has: 106,000

New founder member mastery points player B has (Lato, Skana): 112,000

 

Both of the players expienced a net gain of 6,000 mastery points. They are still 6,000 appart as they were before adding these new weapons in.

Edited June 11, 2014 by DJ_Redwire

[(PSN)The_Moustache]

The problem is that they (pc members) don't rate it.

There may be some level of inequality (Players joining after the cutoff and etc.) but there is no real or perceived inequity that can be applied to this issue...

With exception to ps4 and xbox.

 

They are actually due something. Prime, Dex, or Dragon ... The console folks are due something exclusive.

 

But the bulk of posters making a fuss in this thread aren't console players though, are they?

 

The pc members arguing the points in this thread like to make out like it's about Lato or Skana prime variants, but at the end of the day it really isn't.

Let's be honest... Who in their right mind would take a AK Lato Prime or Dual Skana Prime into a T3?  Who would make this noise for swag you won't use?

 

It's about Excalibur Prime... It's always been about Excal Prime.

 

Once a precedent has been set, these delightful posters know that it can be pushed in that direction.

 

My original stance remains...

 

Dual and AK Primes? Yup, go for it.

Provided everyone understands that automatic bans accompany arguments for Excal Prime's release.

 

Hence PC members get what they asked for without, ultimately, getting what they wanted. And the forums get one less moot point to argue about.

I agree with you and I actually think that Founders items should remain exclusive. They were advertised as such and a lot of money was exchanged. Dual and AK versions really wouldn't solve anything. An automatic ban might be a little too severe though. A warning point and pm would probably be better.

[dragonkingdx]

I'll break this down mathematically for you. (hypothetical values)

 

Non-founder mastery points player A has: 100,000

Founder member mastery points player B has (Lato, Skana): 106,000

 

Add: AkLato Prime (3000), Dual Skana Primes (3000)

 

A: 100,000 + (3000 + 3000) = 106,000

B: 106,000 + (3000 + 3000) = 112,000

 

New non-founder mastery points player A has: 106,000

New founder member mastery points player B has (Lato, Skana): 112,000

 

Both of the players expienced a net gain of 6,000 mastery points. They are still 6,000 appart as they were before adding these new weapons in.

The release of them is not gonna solve anything more than people wanting something that looks similar to them. Thats all it does it doesnt fix the core of the problem. but among having something visualy the same and dual prime likeness that would solve some loophole shiny shiny of it. It would not change that there is still a gap and I have said that.

 

Which is why a mention of adding mastery points for all limited time/exclusive weaps missing would solve that little mastery issue as long as none of the newer exclusive wraith/vandal weaps give mastery. Its a pain in the butt job pleasing everyone. But that would be the only way to solve something. People will still complain over the founders weapons but there would be no mastery difference argument and if they want it for the look they can get the dual versions. (killing any reason for wanting founders items besides the craving to have the exact weapons just for the sake of having those exact weapons) While at the same time I mentioned that compensation that was suggested earlier so that founders can have a special glow set being crafted at half cost for using the likeness.

 

People can still complain I doubt anything will ever stop them from doing so, but do you really want nothing to happen? As in the end if you let them pile up one after another there will be more and more complaints overtime. As anything limited is complained over. Its impossible to stop all complaining but sitting back saying "no" doesn't help either. (hence why even after a year founders stuff is still complained over) There would still be complaints, but the amount of complaints that have some logical sense have to be killed off. (like this little loophole) That way the no can be definite and have a absolute end to it not a end then some what if loophole comes into play.

[Kartumterek]

Ppl accepting that they missed out on something and making sure they put in the time and effort to ensure they don't miss anything else should be the proper answer. This is a 17+ game. How many ppl begging are under the age of 17? Adults understand the concepts of exclusivity, limited edition, time sensitive, and too late. Its really very simple. Let it go and plan the rest of your time in the game wisely

[Aggh]

The release of them is not gonna solve anything more than people wanting something that looks similar to them. Thats all it does it doesnt fix the core of the problem. but among having something visualy the same and dual prime likeness that would solve some loophole shiny shiny of it. It would not change that there is still a gap and I have said that.

 

Which is why a mention of adding mastery points for all limited time/exclusive weaps missing would solve that little mastery issue as long as none of the newer exclusive wraith/vandal weaps give mastery. Its a pain in the butt job pleasing everyone. But that would be the only way to solve something. People will still complain over the founders weapons but there would be no mastery difference argument and if they want it for the look they can get the dual versions. (killing any reason for wanting founders items besides the craving to have the exact weapons just for the sake of having those exact weapons) While at the same time I mentioned that compensation that was suggested earlier so that founders can have a special glow set being crafted at half cost for using the likeness.

 

People can still complain I doubt anything will ever stop them from doing so, but do you really want nothing to happen? As in the end if you let them pile up one after another there will be more and more complaints overtime. As anything limited is complained over. Its impossible to stop all complaining but sitting back saying "no" doesn't help either. (hence why even after a year founders stuff is still complained over) There would still be complaints, but the amount of complaints that have some logical sense have to be killed off. (like this little loophole) That way the no can be definite and have a absolute end to it not a end then some what if loophole comes into play.

It doesn't need to solve anything.  Especially the mastery gap since that will solve itself eventually anyways.  The only real solution to that "issue" is to keep on adding new content.  Eventually the extra 12k mastery won't get founders to max mastery any faster.  It's a non issue and pretty much irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

 

 

Ppl accepting that they missed out on something and making sure they put in the time and effort to ensure they don't miss anything else should be the proper answer. This is a 17+ game. How many ppl begging are under the age of 17? Adults understand the concepts of exclusivity, limited edition, time sensitive, and too late. Its really very simple. Let it go and plan the rest of your time in the game wisely

Yes, adults do understand the concept of exclusivity.  Because for the most part, they have the critical thinking skills to realize the difference between two different products.  The adult world is run on technicalities.  It's naive to think that items with purely visual similarities are governed by the same rules.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Aggh

[Rakosta_Kai]

I agree with you and I actually think that Founders items should remain exclusive. They were advertised as such and a lot of money was exchanged. Dual and AK versions really wouldn't solve anything. An automatic ban might be a little too severe though. A warning point and pm would probably be better.

I agree it's severe...

It should be at this point.

 

The exchanges regarding Founders Exclusives hasn't stopped even though DE has said it's a moot point.

The discussion needs to end.

 

Gifting automatic bans will end it.

[Kartumterek]

lato and Skana Prime are NEVER coming back. Dual version would have 2 of them. Even if you change the built cost... its a dual LATO and SKANA Prime. How is this hard to understand? You went from 0 to 2x of a never coming back item. Does that really make any sense?

Edited June 11, 2014 by Kartumterek

[Aggh]

lato and Skana Prime are NEVER coming back. Dual version would have 2 of them. Even if you change the built cost... its a dual LATO and SKANA Prime. How is this hard to understand? You went from 0 to 2x of a never coming back item. Does that really make any sense?

Aklato is a credit only weapon.  Dual skana has no weapon in the crafting cost.  There is no rule set in stone that requires dual variants to have copies of the single variant in the crafting cost.  How many times does this need to be said?

 

You're trying to establish precedent for a rule that not only has not been consistently followed, but is also something that DE is under no obligation to follow.  How many times does this argument need to be refuted?

Edited June 11, 2014 by Aggh

[Kartumterek]

Aklato is a credit only weapon.  Dual skana has no weapon in the crafting cost.  There is no rule set in stone that requires dual variants to have copies of the single variant in the crafting cost.

Use your common sense here. You are holding 2 of the same item. A never coming back item. I know you don't like it... but let's cut the semantics. The answer has to be a NO

[dragonkingdx]

 

It doesn't need to solve anything.  Especially the mastery gap since that will solve itself eventually anyways.  The only real solution to that "issue" is to keep on adding new content.  Eventually the extra 12k mastery won't get founders to max mastery any faster.  It's a non issue and pretty much irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

 

 

Yes, adults do understand the concept of exclusivity.  Because for the most part, they have the critical thinking skills to realize the difference between two different products.  The adult world is run on technicalities.  It's naive to think that items with purely visual similarities are governed by the same rules.

 

People will still complain about it for the focus system. Its gonna be one form of another, people also wanted the difference of mastery settled through some posts in this thread. As its been brought up that one of the possible reasons for wanting the weaps is for the mastery (as $&*&*#(%& as that gets) It bounced around a few times and varied. Might as well deal with that crap to prevent it from being a reason for changing something/adding something.

[Aggh]

Use your common sense here. You are holding 2 of the same item. A never coming back item. I know you don't like it... but let's cut the semantics. The answer has to be a NO

Use your common sense.  How you feel about it has nothing to do with how the game treats it.  Dual variants are sold and function as a different product.  They are a different product from a single variant.  Different products are not the same product and are not subject to the same rules or restrictions.  This isn't merely semantics, it's irrefutable fact.  Otherwise you would have come up with proof to the contrary by now.

 

The fact that you have had to bring up poorly supported arguments like the crafting argument shows how much you're grasping for straws here.  

 

 

People will still complain about it for the focus system. Its gonna be one form of another, people also wanted the difference of mastery settled through some posts in this thread. As its been brought up that one of the possible reasons for wanting the weaps is for the mastery (as $&*&*#(%& as that gets) It bounced around a few times and varied. Might as well deal with that crap to prevent it from being a reason for changing something/adding something.

We don't even know how the focus system is going to work.  DE has already stated that they went back to the drawing board on the concept.  It may not even have a connection to mastery.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Aggh

[Doom_Bunny]

lato and Skana Prime are NEVER coming back. Dual version would have 2 of them. Even if you change the built cost... its a dual LATO and SKANA Prime. How is this hard to understand? You went from 0 to 2x of a never coming back item. Does that really make any sense?

Done this part already. Maybe it's you who doesn't understand how objects in a game are built. You believe that it's only copied instead of a whole new set of data for both swords/pistols. If only it was that easy. I suppose though that I can tell people at DE they have less work when making any sort of dual varient.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Postal_pat

[Kartumterek]

Use your common sense.  How you feel about it has nothing to do with how the game treats it.  Dual variants are sold and function as a different product.  They are a different product from a single variant.  Different products are not the same product.  This isn't merely semantics, it's irrefutable fact.  Otherwise you would have come up with proof to the contrary by now.

I don't need to come up with anything. I have what you covet not the other way around. You are the one conniving for a ghetto copy of my gat, not the other way around

[dragonkingdx]

 

Use your common sense.  How you feel about it has nothing to do with how the game treats it.  Dual variants are sold and function as a different product.  They are a different product from a single variant.  Different products are not the same product and are not subject to the same rules or restrictions.  This isn't merely semantics, it's irrefutable fact.  Otherwise you would have come up with proof to the contrary by now.

 

 

We don't even know how the focus system is going to work.  DE has already stated that they went back to the drawing board on the concept.  It may not even have a connection to mastery.

 

meh still think it would help. the less pointless excuses the better >.> just as people will always find something to complain over they will also always find some way to make something relevant in some way shape or form. only time will tell for that system since its not coming out anytime soon, but again the less excuses for something the better :S

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Use your common sense.  How you feel about it has nothing to do with how the game treats it.  Dual variants are sold and function as a different product.  They are a different product from a single variant.  Different products are not the same product.  This isn't merely semantics, it's irrefutable fact.  Otherwise you would have come up with proof to the contrary by now.

How about you get a golden version of the existing Dual Skana instead of what looks like this:

 

 

After all, it's what you want right?

Edited June 11, 2014 by Mikovsky

[Aggh]

I don't need to come up with anything. I have what you covet not the other way around. You are the one conniving for a ghetto copy of my gat, not the other way around

There's some logic.  You're the one claiming to have a right to dictate whether this item should be released or not.  The onus is on you to prove that there is an exclusivity restriction on it.  You have yet to do that.

 

 

How about you get a golden version of the existing Dual Skana instead of what looks like this:

 

 

 

After all, it's what you want right?

No, what I want is for DE to be able to not have to worry about whether or not they should release an item that they hold zero obligations towards anyone for.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Aggh