Devstream 30: An Unexpectedly Large Blow To My Hopes For The Game

[BETAOPTICS]

Done.

Just gonna say though, that unless your connection somehow buffers videos before actually loading the page, the video description should have cued you in very quickly. It doesn't ell you anything about where or when you encounter that boss, and unless you watch long enough to bypass the boss intro the actual gameplay shouldn't be spoiled at all. That, and I'm pretty sure this guy appeared in at least one of the trailers. 

 

Nevertheless, sorry if I ruined the experience for you. 

Thank you. And it is fine. Not like you spoiled the whole game. Anyways this is such a great topic. You know, for a while I settled down on DE, thinking that hey they are actually doing very good work again and it is not like they wouldn't at least try, but you made me realize that actually no. There are some serious issue within the game and even concerning the whole game overall.

DE has to realize, that the path they have chosen only poisons this game if you continue this path. It does nothing and serves no one. The core of the game is sick and we need to heal it before it spreads so wide that it can no longer be cured. The first vital step is the overhaul suggestion you and Notionphil are putting forth.

EDIT below, it is a long post about guns and how they work now as opposed to how they could potentially be better systematically.

EDIT: This made me think. Should the damage gap between guns be smaller than it is now. If levelling them would be harder and take more time, it would balance out the fact that the guns themselves don't have such a big gap between each other and mods would have a lesser effect on guns or not even that necessarily. Depending how well they would balance it out.

Because I always find it sad that guns, even though they are starter ones and obviously would have to be worse than higher tier weapons but I would love if we could overcome the end game with starter gear and correct mods trough the same skill you talk about. The fact that yes, you would be in a disadvantage and the further you would go on end game defense, the more clearly it would show the gap and the fact that you basically need a better weapon from here on to advance further and higher defense levels.

But you could go to end game with starter gear. Provided you have the skill to build your playstyle correctly and you have the skill to play with that style. Rather than the way it currently is that you need the correct essential mods and weapons and you are set up. Not only, does this unnecessarily take out player choice, build choice and variation out from the game and make it less fun and interesting for the players but it also means that if you know what gear sought after for, you can beat the game as soon as you get to a point where you can buy or otherwise get godly mods and or gear.

That is another trade off with the trading added, because while great in itself. But you can instawin the game with money and this really takes away from the game. If however, you wouldn't be just able to buy yourself to instant victory, where you would need to get your gear leveled up properly for them to be end game viable.

This would mean that the way weapons level up needs to be overhauled. Not only, should the leveling be harder to follow the overall curve of the game but guns should become better with each level so if you instantly buy a maxed serration mod to your guns, it's benefits aren't very big but it's benefit on your gear gets linearly better as your gear gains levels.

From a logical standpoint we could explain this that the Tenno actually becomes more masterful with his guns and it shows in the guns performance.

This would also make it so that every gun could be at a near power level and have much narrower gap between each other while also being balanced trough out the whole game. Players couldn't autowin the game with money either this way. The only exception when your guns would be overpowered for some mission is if they are over leveled for this specific mission.

They should then make it so that if an item is over leveled, the experience would gradually decline so that you couldn't abuse the leveling system with your higher level gear and low level content. This wouldn't harm the players either. You would be encouraged to follow the challenge for the fastest possible leveling experience but you can return to the easier content and go trough it with a lot more time invested.

And when you finally do manage to level your gear to 30, unless you don't forma and reset it, the experience you gain doesn't matter much either anymore so no harm done whatsoever.

This system would tie in to the games fun. You'd be challenged most of the times properly and it would be fun. You could still feel powerful if you want to but the game would require a lore more thinking as skill would have a much more significant role and impact on your overall performance.

Edited June 10, 2014 by BETAOPTICS

[AnonCat]

Valid points, but the opening bit makes you sound like an idiot.

[DeadScream]

We could have got a mastery system for melee combos, but nope. More ridiculously hard-to-get mods. 

 

We could have got air combos with it, but nope. You can unequip your ranged weapons but you are screwed in 90% of the tilesets if you do so. 

 

We could have got build diversity, but nope. You switch elemental mods for each faction, but result in the exact same numbers and almost the same effects on all of them. You can do otherwise, but you will be less effective. 

 

We could have got something really unique, but we are entering an endless and pointless recycling process in the game development : Same eximus units in all the factions, same spawn system for 2 of the 3 assassin-units in the game, relying a lot on RNG, being only loot bags or heavy punishment. No balance. 

 

The list is long. 
 

They are improving the game, but not enough. They once told there was damn too many weapons, but never stopped releasing a new one every single week. (well, one or two weeks they didn't, wow)

 

 

 

I'm sad about the truth of your post OP, but I hope DE will read it and understand they are doing something wrong.

[cnileoleman]

To put the solo is easy argument into perspective, well basically if you say "solo is easy" I humbly encourage  you to restart the game with Loki and see how long that attitude lasts you.

 

 

But loki Is one of the better solo frames.

 

Get a good redirection, max invis, use power modifiers to get either a long or cheap invis. Radial disarm is great. Yeah he's not perfect early game before you get any power modifiers, but he's a boss lategame. 

Loki isn't just "not perfect" in the beginning, he is suicide. Since you didn't seem to grasp what Trainsaw said, allow me to describe my little brother's journey.

 

     Started Mercury after the tutorial. The braton is decent, but he really likes the lato for headshots. He finds a fire mod for his rifle and thinks about equipping it after the mission.  (This was before damage 2.0)He didn't really use his braton, so it isn't high enough in level. He doesn't think that's a big deal and does some grinding. Look at those guys burn!!!He goes through the mission nodes of Mercury, feeling stronger all the time. He finally reaches captain Vor, eager to destroy. He quickly figures out Vor's tricks, and lays into him with his Braton. Hundreds of bullets find their mark, yet he stands. Out of ammo, the Loki switches to his pistol. It runs out. And here he is, with no ammo and no offensive abilities, low health, low shields, and all the speed in the world can't help him. He never found Serration or Hornet Strike on his journey here. (I had more luck as an Excalibur, but I found my first and only Hornet Strike several weeks after I started playing, along with several Serrations) He can't do enough damage no matter what he does. He doesn't have access to the resources needed to make better weapons, and wouldn't have enough money anyway. This is how a beginning Loki feels at every boss encounter. Then there's the normal enemies themselves, shredding through meager shields and flesh alike after any mistake. He gave up for a long time. I'd go over to his computer when he wasn't there and log him in, hoping a log in reward might help him. Sometimes I played missions for him. One day that paid off. I had done a few missions for him when update 10 came about, and 50 platinum was given out to everyone who had played since update 10 due to some incidents involving void drops. He hadn't spent any of his starting plat, and was able to purchase Volt. Since then, he has been enjoying the game greatly.  

 

      If you had started a new game as Loki as was suggested, or at least known someone who went through this very situation, you wouldn't have described beginning Loki's as "not perfect". He got lucky with the surprise platinum. Others won't, and will quit. Imagine how it is now that bleeding procs hit through shields, something he didn't need to deal with.

 

     If I seem aggressive, it's only because I hear things like this all the time when people discuss beginning solo play. "Pretty much the same of co-op", "Can't be that hard". There is no such thing as a teammate reviving you. How many times could you bleed out with full shields before you quit? How many times could you get juggled by shield lancers or ancients while everyone else kills you before you quit? How many times could you completely run out of ammo before you quit? How many times could you get killed through a wall by a railgun moa before you quit? Trip through a laser door and shot? Crisped by a scorch? Try to remember that solo players have a drastically different experience before you recommend a starting frame. Consider this a friendly reminder that you don't know what you're talking about.

[notionphil]

....allow me to describe my little brother's journey.

 

 

dat brotherly love yo

 

In all seriousness, this guy is right. For anyone who solos the occasional mission with your Rhino Prime and Soma, you have no idea what solo feels like when it's required. From the beginning. Without amazing luck.

 

It's not just hard...the mechanics are so punishing to solo players, it's as if you're playing the game incorrectly. Not 'Dark Souls' hard. 'Super Mario Bros - without a jump button' kind of hard.

 

Essentially broken.

[jetpack_jack]

sadly a boring rant from OP, you seem to have a pretty narrow-minded view & hope that the more you type, people will be swayed by your opinions, shame you don't like alot of things in the game, but each to their own. Just wanted DE to know i totally disagree with most of the ramblings in this thread, but am of the solid opinion that fixes are paramount for the future of this great game

[notionphil]

sadly a boring rant from OP, you seem to have a pretty narrow-minded view & hope that the more you type, people will be swayed by your opinions, shame you don't like alot of things in the game, but each to their own. Just wanted DE to know i totally disagree with most of the ramblings in this thread, but am of the solid opinion that fixes are paramount for the future of this great game

 

Curious, which "fixes are paramount for the future" you're looking forward to if you disagree with most of the "ramblings" in this thread.

 

Everything from balance, to lore to progression to enemy challenge was covered...

[Moderius]

You know, not many players care enough to visit the forums. Most of them fight a few missions of mercury and give up. 

 

Quantify that claim.

[jetpack_jack]

to mend broken things & fix the bugs that exist  :)

bring the game performance (i don't mean gameplay - that is purely subjective preferences) to a satisfactory standard,

less crashing/breaking & more consistent completion.

 

sadly, poor client hardware, with unreliable internet, running code optimised for the lowest common denominator is a compromise too far, i.e if your pc is too old and your internet connection is poor, the peer-to-peer experience is going to suffer. it really doesn't matter what the mission is, if you get 'connection to the host has been lost ..... progress hasn't been saved ......  host migration ..... failed to join session ...... you get my drift? 

 

fixing what exists is far more crucial in my opinion, than diversity and expansion of gameplay (although i always look forward to new and interesting content, don't get me wrong)

trying to make a cutting edge game work on the widest possible array of tech that maximises the playerbase is a very tricky balance. (of course server / client infrastructure would solve alot of that, but is not part of DE's business model for this FTP experiment)

 

constructive criticism for this open beta software is essential, but subjective preferences, expressed as narrow-minded opinions, doesn't equate to balanced feedback, in my opinion.

 

i hope this clarifies my original point  -  ' ....  fixes are paramount for the future of this great game'

Edited June 10, 2014 by jetpack_jack

[OniDax]

Can't believe I've missed this thread for 4 days. Glad I'm not the only one who was rather disappointed by this livestream. And that's the enemies presented (with the exception of the J3 Golem - he looks cool, color and all. Don't change his look DE), not just the game's projected direction.

 

Oh, and those upvotes o.O

Edited June 10, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Lost_Cartographer]

Quantify that claim.

 

https://warframe.com/news/warframe-numbers

 

Warframe has millions of accounts.

 

How many people are there playing online right now?

 

Either the vast, vast, VAST majority are solo, or they quit, and going by most of the numbers on that chart, they definitely quit.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Littleman88

[gell]

sadly a boring rant from OP, you seem to have a pretty narrow-minded view & hope that the more you type, people will be swayed by your opinions, shame you don't like alot of things in the game, but each to their own. Just wanted DE to know i totally disagree with most of the ramblings in this thread, but am of the solid opinion that fixes are paramount for the future of this great game

 

You've made a nonsensical post unless you can explain which fixes are paramount. Fixing some of the technical bugs is important, but it doesn't fix the game a whole, and regardless of those fixes, will not retain players.

 

OP has explained his point well, and I'm pretty sure you didn't read his entire post or you wouldn't be disagreeing. Are you allowed to disagree? Of course, but his post (and others with similar threads and posts) rings true for this game. DE is well mannered and passionate, but they have shown a surprising few times that they actually understand what makes games fun, as opposed to just what makes games sufficient for a while. It's not about burnout after 200 hours, it's about burnout on game play mechanics within 1 hour (I don't mean people just quit after 1 hour though, read on). Some people just love to pew pew and never think; those players exist and carry a portion of the game. They'll shoot at stuff and be happy. DE also needs to cater to them (and cater to them they have). But as a general rule, designers should always look to engage the player. Why is this enemy attacking, and how does this change the experience for the player from moment to moment? If it's just more of the same shooting and sometimes aiming for a glowy spot or crit spot, it's not enough to keep interest beyond very small bursts, and that's how I play this game now. Any more than an hour and it's mind numbingly repetitive.

 

I have numerous friends who stopped playing Warframe after various hours, their tolerance for repetition personally varied. But they all quit. Not out of anger or frustration, but boredom. And many of them love shooters. They ask, "should I return to Warframe?" and as much as I want them to play, I know it's the same as why they left: it's still kind of boring. So the impetus is on DE to reflect on what they've done to engage the player, and ask if anything they've done has truly made players react moment to moment, kept them interested, or is most of this game just shooting in the general direction of anything that moves with the occasional acrobatic maneuver?

 

I've stuck with this game for this long because a) I do like some dumb pew pew. I run infested defense solo just because I want all the enemies to come to me for me to kill all those melee guys without much thought. I find it cathartic. And b) I stick with it because I see some hope for the game, as DE listens to feedback and tries to adjust. But now it's getting to a point, 18 months later, where I am not sure DE knows what's fun beyond some dumb kills. If DE uses prosecutors one more time as an example of good enemies, I might just give up all hope and use WF for what it currently is: a good place for me to go kill some really dumb enemies who don't have a chance against me. But even a dictator doesn't want to be the ruler of a kingdom of idiots.

Edited June 11, 2014 by gell

[Davoodoo]

You know, not many players care enough to visit the forums. Most of them fight a few missions of mercury and give up. 

If you speak about new players that quit after few missions they dont even care about buffs or nerfs so thats not their reason to quit.

 

Power curve, huge lore loopholes, lack of any story, rng reliance, crafting times, high platinum prices for gear, lack of proper tutorials 

These are reasons these players quit not balancing attempts.

[gell]

If you speak about new players that quit after few missions they dont even care about buffs or nerfs so thats not their reason to quit.

 

Power curve, huge lore loopholes, lack of any story, rng reliance, crafting times, high platinum prices for gear, lack of proper tutorials 

These are reasons these players quit not balancing attempts.

 

Actually, as I mentioned above, I would say the reason my friends said they quit was the game was repetitive and boring. Some played for 4 hours, some played for 40 hours. It had little or nothing to do with those reasons you gave asie from RNG reliance but that is a very broad issue. Balance is not going to fix that, but one of the OP's points about changing how the player plays is the key to fixing the boredom issue. 

 

Also, I forgot to mention that I'm not as butthurt about solo as the OP, and I have played about 99% of this game solo, since Jan 2013. I sometimes do some T3 Void Def for the rewards with a group or friends if they are on, but I mostly solo. Granted the game has changed since Jan 2013, and I do think solo is harder, but I still go into level 20+ missions with a lot of low level gear/frame and do just fine. Left 4 Dead solo (on higher difficulties) is almost impossible, as notionphil stated with his Mario analogy about missing a jump button, but I don't think the game is that impossible for solo players and therefore that analogy is more hyperbole. You just can't run into a room and destroy everything like you can with a group of 4, and your self-explosive deaths are punished a lot more solo.

 

And I remember the thread a few months ago with someone starting the game over with all unranked gear. I did the same. I didn't agree with them either. It's not that hard.

Edited June 11, 2014 by gell

[Moderius]

 

https://warframe.com/news/warframe-numbers

 

Warframe has millions of accounts.

 

How many people are there playing online right now?

 

Either the vast, vast, VAST majority are solo, or they quit, and going by most of the numbers on that chart, they definitely quit.

 

Other systems, languages, regions, not online every moment of every day.

 

Oh, and this proves nothing based on what you claimed. So let's just call your bull^$#@ what it is, hmm?

[Davoodoo]

Actually, as I mentioned above, I would say the reason my friends said they quit was the game was repetitive and boring. Some played for 4 hours, some played for 40 hours. It had little or nothing to do with those reasons you gave asie from RNG reliance but that is a very broad issue. Balance is not going to fix that, but one of the OP's points about changing how the player plays is the key to fixing the boredom issue. 

 

Also, I forgot to mention that I'm not as butthurt about solo as the OP, and I have played about 99% of this game solo, since Jan 2013. I sometimes do some T3 Void Def for the rewards with a group or friends if they are on, but I mostly solo. Granted the game has changed since Jan 2013, and I do think solo is harder, but I still go into level 20+ missions with a lot of low level gear/frame and do just fine. Left 4 Dead solo (on higher difficulties) is almost impossible, as notionphil stated with his Mario analogy about missing a jump button, but I don't think the game is that impossible for solo players and therefore that analogy is more hyperbole. You just can't run into a room and destroy everything like you can with a group of 4, and your self-explosive deaths are punished a lot more solo.

 

And I remember the thread a few months ago with someone starting the game over with all unranked gear. I did the same. I didn't agree with them either. It's not that hard.

I introduced 3 friends.

 

They mostly complained about:

1)how much im stronger than them, to the point where they couldnt do anything if i was in the same mission - power curve

2)when i explained its because of mods and they complained how hard is it to get mods and then to rank them up - rng reliance, this was back in mod drops 1.0 btw, these were much easier to get back then.

3)12-24h crafting on even starter weapons and 3,5day on warframe - crafting

4)Even if they wanted to buy any guns which i said they shouldnt do, the prices were too high to consider them rational - high platinum costs

5)so due to point 1 i decided that it would be best if they tried playing with pugs and amount of questions how to perform wallrun, mark drops, do rolls, why are rolls so useless, wtf is this guy doing(coptering), how to copter, how is dmg counted. - lack of proper tutorial

6)questions: why does vor have better powers than them, wtf are grineer, if we can beat whole ship of grineer why is there still war, grineer were humans O.o, cant we just destroy their cloning facilities, wtf is lotus, why do we even listen to her - lore holes

7)so next mission will be just cutting 100 enemies, why are we doing this?? to get to vor?? why cant we just avoid their ships and go straight for vor considering that we stealthly get onboards, who is the vor anyway - lore holes and lack of story.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Davoodoo

[jetpack_jack]

You've made a nonsensical post unless you can explain which fixes are paramount. Fixing some of the technical bugs is important, but it doesn't fix the game a whole, and regardless of those fixes, will not retain players.

 

OP has explained his point well, and I'm pretty sure you didn't read his entire post or you wouldn't be disagreeing. Are you allowed to disagree? Of course, but his post (and others with similar threads and posts) rings true for this game. DE is well mannered and passionate, but they have shown a surprising few times that they actually understand what makes games fun, as opposed to just what makes games sufficient for a while. It's not about burnout after 200 hours, it's about burnout on game play mechanics within 1 hour (I don't mean people just quit after 1 hour though, read on). Some people just love to pew pew and never think; those players exist and carry a portion of the game. They'll shoot at stuff and be happy. DE also needs to cater to them (and cater to them they have). But as a general rule, designers should always look to engage the player. Why is this enemy attacking, and how does this change the experience for the player from moment to moment? If it's just more of the same shooting and sometimes aiming for a glowy spot or crit spot, it's not enough to keep interest beyond very small bursts, and that's how I play this game now. Any more than an hour and it's mind numbingly repetitive.

 

I have numerous friends who stopped playing Warframe after various hours, their tolerance for repetition personally varied. But they all quit. Not out of anger or frustration, but boredom. And many of them love shooters. They ask, "should I return to Warframe?" and as much as I want them to play, I know it's the same as why they left: it's still kind of boring. So the impetus is on DE to reflect on what they've done to engage the player, and ask if anything they've done has truly made players react moment to moment, kept them interested, or is most of this game just shooting in the general direction of anything that moves with the occasional acrobatic maneuver?

 

i have enjoyed just under 2,000 hours in game, achieved rank 16, and still love rolling through missions!

to me, the concept of warframe is more a kind of puzzle game like chess, than just a futuristic FPS. 

before i joined the tenno ranks, i was a long-time Unreal Tournament series player, with my preferred game mode of War, co-op play was central to success and achievement.

i see warframe as an equally co-op centred game, but with the massive additional layer of character customisation via mods. so the challenge for me is not just to finish missions, but to truly master using all 19 warframes and be able to contribute effectively to my team or solo, at every level possible, while also optimising sentinels and weapons. polarising kit, improving my movement, bettering my previous attempts ... etc

these are the things that make the game lasting for me.

[grillv20]

to mend broken things & fix the bugs that exist  :)

bring the game performance (i don't mean gameplay - that is purely subjective preferences) to a satisfactory standard,

less crashing/breaking & more consistent completion.

 

sadly, poor client hardware, with unreliable internet, running code optimised for the lowest common denominator is a compromise too far, i.e if your pc is too old and your internet connection is poor, the peer-to-peer experience is going to suffer. it really doesn't matter what the mission is, if you get 'connection to the host has been lost ..... progress hasn't been saved ......  host migration ..... failed to join session ...... you get my drift? 

 

fixing what exists is far more crucial in my opinion, than diversity and expansion of gameplay (although i always look forward to new and interesting content, don't get me wrong)

trying to make a cutting edge game work on the widest possible array of tech that maximises the playerbase is a very tricky balance. (of course server / client infrastructure would solve alot of that, but is not part of DE's business model for this FTP experiment)

 

constructive criticism for this open beta software is essential, but subjective preferences, expressed as narrow-minded opinions, doesn't equate to balanced feedback, in my opinion.

 

i hope this clarifies my original point  -  ' ....  fixes are paramount for the future of this great game'

 

There is nothing subjective about what the OP said. If you're too blind to see your faults in the game, give it a while longer to sink in. I am almost convinced that you're trolling by saying that you're happy with the current gameplay. Do you honestly feel as if you're being challenged in any sort of way? You cant honestly come back at me or the community as a whole as say that grinding for something is in any way difficult when there are plenty of ways to bypass it all together. If you honestly think that playing the game the way you want to should not be an option in a game thats entirely built around customization then you should probably step back and take a better look at the picture as a whole.

 

You have solo play that is completely broken. An affinity and galaxy wide level scaling system that just makes absolutely no sense at all. An overhauled melee system that STILL DOESN'T cater to all enemy types within the game when they blatantly went out of the way to make it so you can go "sword alone mode." Bosses that have phases where they simply don't take damage which serves no purpose other than to slow the player down if he needs to farm something off of it.The lack of telegraphed moves that you should be watching out for when doing anything boss related. What it all boils down to is shoot it until its dead and if you cant shoot it then screw you buddy. There is only so much "shoot it until its dead" and pressing 4 on my keyboard until I have to log out and go do something else. I remember when the devs pitched the game as space ninjas. Now we're space gods that rain death down upon enemies that are just clearly not even worth the Tenno's time. The only thing that can legitimately kill players at a high level of play are the cheesy ones that damage you through your shields. Even then THATS still relatively rare.

 

also, a puzzle game? you cant honestly be serious >_> 

Edited June 11, 2014 by grillv20

[jetpack_jack]

There is nothing subjective about what the OP said. If you're too blind to see your faults in the game, give it a while longer to sink in. I am almost convinced that you're trolling by saying that you're happy with the current gameplay. Do you honestly feel as if you're being challenged in any sort of way? You cant honestly come back at me or the community as a whole as say that grinding for something is in any way difficult when there are plenty of ways to bypass it all together. If you honestly think that playing the game the way you want to should not be an option in a game thats entirely built around customization then you should probably step back and take a better look at the picture as a whole.

 

You have solo play that is completely broken. An affinity and galaxy wide level scaling system that just makes absolutely no sense at all. An overhauled melee system that STILL DOESN'T cater to all enemy types within the game when they blatantly went out of the way to make it so you can go "sword alone mode." Bosses that have phases where they simply don't take damage which serves no purpose other than to slow the player down if he needs to farm something off of it.The lack of telegraphed moves that you should be watching out for when doing anything boss related. What it all boils down to is shoot it until its dead and if you cant shoot it then screw you buddy. There is only so much "shoot it until its dead" and pressing 4 on my keyboard until I have to log out and go do something else. I remember when the devs pitched the game as space ninjas. Now we're space gods that rain death down upon enemies that are just clearly not even worth the Tenno's time. The only thing that can legitimately kill players at a high level of play are the cheesy ones that damage you through your shields. Even then THATS still relatively rare.

 

also, a puzzle game? you cant honestly be serious >_> 

 lol i am serious, puzzles are to be solved, you just seem to have a different idea about varied challenges, than me

[grillv20]

What puzzles are you talking about though?

[Davoodoo]

i have enjoyed just under 2,000 hours in game, achieved rank 16, and still love rolling through missions!

to me, the concept of warframe is more a kind of puzzle game like chess, than just a futuristic FPS. 

before i joined the tenno ranks, i was a long-time Unreal Tournament series player, with my preferred game mode of War, co-op play was central to success and achievement.

i see warframe as an equally co-op centred game, but with the massive additional layer of character customisation via mods. so the challenge for me is not just to finish missions, but to truly master using all 19 warframes and be able to contribute effectively to my team or solo, at every level possible, while also optimising sentinels and weapons. polarising kit, improving my movement, bettering my previous attempts ... etc

these are the things that make the game lasting for me.

After 1000 hours the game changed into collectible card game for me.

I dont care what new they will release, it will surely look great, gameplay wise however it wont add anything interesting. 

I barely even care if they make another stupid decision, cmon red crits?? 60k from bow not enough?? That was btw first balance change i disagreed with.

 

Mastering frames?? press 3 or 4 when you think that enemies are in range, or point in general enemy direction and do the same.

 

After getting elemental mods and maxed serration game lost any difficulty, everything that i couldnt kill in less than a second was cced.

 

Every new addition except models, tilesets and general art stuff is dissapointing, mechanics seems barely touched. They just reuse old system add 1 or 2 additions and call it done.

Melee "2.0" seems like melee 1.1 to me, thats how much more i feel could be done about it.

Only real change in mechanics were mods 2.0 and really it introduced whole power curve we have now so it wasnt a succes either and could still take much work, mods 2.0 were released with open beta.

 

I did counting there were 9 direct nerfs for over a year with only 3 being de own initiative, when the game could use at least 90 more.

Every fix to mechanics so far was only a bandaid fix.

 

Really is that how veteran player should feel??

 

Oh and instead of putting more work to get game ready for launch, they announce xbox1 port while the game is already on ps4 and pc and they release 4th founder package(founder + 3 prime accesses). Ok primes look cool, but are these 2 new weapons, frame and syandana worth 140$ or 126 euro?? or you can buy just syandana and golden drone icon in your foundry for just 50$ or 45 euro

 

Everyday i feel more and more like i wasted my money on game which never intended to leave beta and just suck money out of customers. Its a shame, start was really promising but really bad decisions, lazy design and indecisiveness gonna kill this game eventually.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Davoodoo

[jetpack_jack]

What puzzles are you talking about though?

in order to complete a mission, you have to complete objectives.  there are so many different ways to do this.

e.g for this next mission, which frame do,i take rhino or loki, which sentinel, should my mod loadouts be adjusted? so many variations to experiment with! thats the puzzle for me to solve :)

[grillv20]

in order to complete a mission, you have to complete objectives.  there are so many different ways to do this.

e.g for this next mission, which frame do,i take rhino or loki, which sentinel, should my mod loadouts be adjusted? so many variations to experiment with! thats the puzzle for me to solve :)

 

There is no more than 1 way to complete an objective in warframe unless you're talking about mobile defense. The mod system is in no way shape or form a puzzle game unless you're just not smart enough to know what is good and what isnt. Now if you were to talk about the melee system mods then that might be another story but I haven't really played around with them very much since melee 2.0

[Davoodoo]

in order to complete a mission, you have to complete objectives.  there are so many different ways to do this.

e.g for this next mission, which frame do,i take rhino or loki, which sentinel, should my mod loadouts be adjusted? so many variations to experiment with! thats the puzzle for me to solve :)

That genre is modern fps not puzzle game

[jetpack_jack]

There is no more than 1 way to complete an objective in warframe unless you're talking about mobile defense. The mod system is in no way shape or form a puzzle game unless you're just not smart enough to know what is good and what isnt. Now if you were to talk about the melee system mods then that might be another story but I haven't really played around with them very much since melee 2.0

yes, the melee mod system is a good example of what i was meaning.

also optimising particular warframes for specific roles within certain missions, 

and getting good team work going, being effective and having fun, mixing things up & trying to do them differently,  as i said, it's a bit like a puzzle to solve, finding one way, isn't always the only way.