Looorreeee

[OniDax]

Thanks!

[SilentMobius]

I might agree with you, but the Stalker, as well as Grineer, Corpus, and Infested Eximus can use the powers of the Tenno. I find it hard to believe that the Tenno are the most limited of the factions when it comes to using different powers. Right now, it's a dumb gameplay mechanic. DE never should have made the Eximus because it doesn't make sense. And if they had actually done things the right way, and made up the lore and let the lore dictate what's possible, then we never would have had things like this that make no sense at all. I believe that the Tenno, like every non-Tenno, can use different powers. DE just won't let us do that.

 

I wasn't happy with the lore-side of the Eximus units either. but here's my take on the topic:

 

1. The _end effects_ of the Tenno powers are well understood by the Orokin (Hence why Warframes have Orokin mods for Powers)

2. The _source_ of the power is the part that gives resistance to the Sentients tech-control

3. The Orokin Mods that provided these powers are "adaptable" with enough experimentation (Hence why Ruk had Ember Parts, Tyl Regor has Ash parts. they are abusing the Warframe mods to lesser and more clunky effect)

4. The thing that makes the Tenno special is that they are a living source of energy and that energy is wild and uncontrollable, however the effects that that power is tuned into was a more normal part of Orokin Tech.

5. This also explains why troops drop Orokin Mods.

[Renegade343]

1. The _end effects_ of the Tenno powers are well understood by the Orokin (Hence why Warframes have Orokin mods for Powers)

2. The _source_ of the power is the part that gives resistance to the Sentients tech-control

3. The Orokin Mods that provided these powers are "adaptable" with enough experimentation (Hence why Ruk had Ember Parts, Tyl Regor has Ash parts. they are abusing the Warframe mods to lesser and more clunky effect)

4. The thing that makes the Tenno special is that they are a living source of energy and that energy is wild and uncontrollable, however the effects that that power is tuned into was a more normal part of Orokin Tech.

5. This also explains why troops drop Orokin Mods.

I just think normal troops dropping Warframe power mods are just meant as a gameplay mechanic to dilute the drop table. 

 

If that is part of the lore, then that would contradict Alad V, in terms of him sending out Harvesters to obtain Warframes in order to obtain their powers, when he could just go to the nearest Crewmen, murder him, and get his Slash Dash for Zanuka. 

[SilentMobius]

I just think normal troops dropping Warframe power mods are just meant as a gameplay mechanic to dilute the drop table. 

 

If that is part of the lore, then that would contradict Alad V, in terms of him sending out Harvesters to obtain Warframes in order to obtain their powers, when he could just go to the nearest Crewmen, murder him, and get his Slash Dash for Zanuka. 

 

Not quite. What I'm saying is that you can get _some_ effect from these mods (The volume of them is indeed a gameplay issue but the fact that other have them IMHO is not). What makes a Tenno so formidable is the combination of Warframe+Mods not the mods alone.

 

IMHO Zanuka is components from various Warframes to support the mods all grafted onto a quad-amputee Tenno _still alive_ and in the remains of their Warframe, complete with reverse-engineered Orokin mind-control tech (Alad V's collar+ the Orokin-style "crown" on Zanuka")

 

 

This way we keep the age-old lore that no-one can get a Warframe to work without a Tenno inside (Which would be information that anyone else would kill for if he had it) while still explaining why AladV is harvesting Tenno.

Edited July 1, 2014 by SilentMobius

[OniDax]

Zanuka doesn't have an "Orokin style crown". Nor do I think that the proxy is made up of live Tenno.

[Renegade343]

Contents from post #404.

The quad-amputee Tenno in a Zanuka theory. I have heard of that, and that makes some sense, but I sometimes tend to believe that is just a coincidence. 

 

But still, what does not make sense is why would normal troops have these Warframe power mods en masse. After all, the mods are quite powerful, so why would bosses risk themselves a revolution with these powers in the troops' hands? Why not keep the mods for the bosses themselves, just so that we can see that the bosses seem to be smart. 

[NevanChambers]

No, did not say the first warframe.

The entire entry was the process by which warframes came to be a thing. Then it says Excalibur was the first. I mean its not like you have to reach really far to draw the conclusion. What then if not a warframe is Excalibur the first of?

[SilentMobius]

The quad-amputee Tenno in a Zanuka theory. I have heard of that, and that makes some sense, but I sometimes tend to believe that is just a coincidence. 

 

But still, what does not make sense is why would normal troops have these Warframe power mods en masse. After all, the mods are quite powerful, so why would bosses risk themselves a revolution with these powers in the troops' hands? Why not keep the mods for the bosses themselves, just so that we can see that the bosses seem to be smart. 

 

Hence the "IMHO" before I started talking about Zanuka, however the reason I posit it is not because I like the idea, I suggest it simply because it is the only explanation that fits all the current lore information we have been given. Any time anything seems to contradict extant lore then something must be a fault. my ruiles for theorycrafting are:

 

1. Invalidate nothing stated by DE

2. Include things suggested by DE

3. Keep fabrications-from-whole-cloth to a minimum.

 

That's how I came to my opinion regarding Zanuka.

 

As I said, the existence of mods with troops is the part that is explained, the volume is indeed simply gameplay. Also as I said, I'm not suggesting that a "serration" mod actually increases enemy damage by 15%, what I'm saying is that the underlying use of the mod can _somewhat_ be kicked into life, hence why some troops would have them, perhaps it's being used to replace a faulty gas return, perhaps a "rush" or "marathon" mod is being used to supplement old/faulty grineer cybernetics and active Orokin nanites are dynamically re-binding worn linear motors.

Edited July 1, 2014 by SilentMobius

[NevanChambers]

Zanuka doesn't have an "Orokin style crown". Nor do I think that the proxy is made up of live Tenno.

Why is this? It's the only explanation that doesn't contradict established lore (that being that the frames are nothing at all without a Tenno in them)

[vaugahn]

That makes sense. The thing I've been stuck on is how did they know what effect the void would have on the Tenno? It seems they were purposely sent out there. How did they come to that conclusion? Was it happenstance? Or perhaps they were aware of the effects and sent others out. What if the stalker was an exercise in seeing what happens to void exposure...and he and maybe a few others were an exception..immune to technocyte slain Tenno and stole their suits out of distain.

I'm sorry I'm a huge fan of the stalker and a romanticized backstory would make me happy.

 

If you notice in the excalibur lore, they said they sent people to the void in desperation. I don't think they had any idea what it would do, only that they were losing a war bad and needed something to turn the tide.

[SilentMobius]

Zanuka doesn't have an "Orokin style crown". 

 

Really? Have a look at _all_ the Corpus Proxies, do you see an external curved crown arc _anywhere_ else in their design, even in the _very similar_ hyena pack proxies?

 

Lets have a look shall we, Orokin design at the top and Corpus design at the bottom, where do you think the "top" of Zanuka's head comes from?

 

 

Link in case the image breaks the forums https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6553908/tech_comparison.png

Edited July 1, 2014 by SilentMobius

[OniDax]

Ok, I see what you're talking about. I still see no indication that Zanuka is a live Tenno.

[NevanChambers]

If you notice in the excalibur lore, they said they sent people to the void in desperation. I don't think they had any idea what it would do, only that they were losing a war bad and needed something to turn the tide.

Assuming the Tenno rebellion was swift and efficient there was not much time between victory over the ancients and the collapse of the orokin empire. Given the relative completeness of the towers it's pretty safe to assume that the void wasn't an entirely new discovery they would have to know void energies would have some strange properties. Since I also believe the Tenno were a people apart and that the Orokin would know why (technocyte infection without succumbing) it would be a desperate but logical experiment to put the two together and see what happened.

[SilentMobius]

Ok, I see what you're talking about. I still see no indication that Zanuka is a live Tenno.

 

Alad V quote:

 

"You have loyalty issues, Tenno. My Zanuka project will fix that for you!"

 

This makes perfect sense if the captured Tenno are mind controlled, much less sense if they are cut up into pieces.

 

All the other quotes are less obvious but still IMHO suggest a living entity. if it there were no such entity why would you need reverse-engineered neural sentry tech?

 

If he could simply cut up Warframes and build something new why experiment on a living Tenno+Warframe in Valkyr? unless he was testing how far he could go _before_ killing the Tenno and rendering the Warframe only good for spare parts.

 

Also, why did Zanuka get up looking stunned when Alad V's control collar was damaged in the Profit trailer, surely if it was simply a proxy it would go dark and if it was a robot Alad V wouldn't need the collar?

 

_And_ we know that Orokin Neural sentry tech works on the Infestation (Just look at the Corrupted Ancients) unlike Corpus Tech which would explain why Alad V thought he could control/use infested troops.

Edited July 1, 2014 by SilentMobius

[vaugahn]

Assuming the Tenno rebellion was swift and efficient there was not much time between victory over the ancients and the collapse of the orokin empire. Given the relative completeness of the towers it's pretty safe to assume that the void wasn't an entirely new discovery they would have to know void energies would have some strange properties. Since I also believe the Tenno were a people apart and that the Orokin would know why (technocyte infection without succumbing) it would be a desperate but logical experiment to put the two together and see what happened.

 

It seems like tossing people into the void was their last choice, and based off the ember prime lore it seems like they might have done it in secret and possibly without the consent of the people who later became tenno

[SilentMobius]

Assuming the Tenno rebellion was swift and efficient there was not much time between victory over the ancients and the collapse of the orokin empire. Given the relative completeness of the towers it's pretty safe to assume that the void wasn't an entirely new discovery they would have to know void energies would have some strange properties. Since I also believe the Tenno were a people apart and that the Orokin would know why (technocyte infection without succumbing) it would be a desperate but logical experiment to put the two together and see what happened.

 

Personally without more reason assume actual technocyte infection I'm of the opinion that Void power is the Tenno's only defining characteristic. Remember that Hayden's armour was made, and not part of his "infection".

 

IMHO technocyte material is the foundation of the Orokin tech and hence the Warframes but the Orokin gave up on abusing the raw virus after the fall of the Earth in the pre-Orokin era.

 

All of our information about the Tenno and the creation of the Warframes for the sentients war don't mention the technocyte virus at all. However we do have information that a _tenno_ weapon (The Ether blades) were the preferred weapons to used to cleanse infected allies. Indicating that there was an extended period _after_ the fall of the Orokin but _before_ the Tenno entered cryo.

 

IMHO this indicates that either:

 

1. The Orokin released their _new_ experiment (The infestation) against the Tenno after the betrayal

2. The Death of the Orokin resulted in the Infestation breaking out of Orokin holding areas

 

Either way this gives the Tenno something _else_ to clean up before sleeping and a reason to create their non-Orokin designs for replacement Warframes as there would have been resource starvation and attrition during this period.

 

This also explains why all the current infestation seem to be descended from Lephantis, a Key Orokin experiment that was in its _own_ secret facility that the Tenno missed and we only discover by tracing back from uninfected ships -> infected Orokin derelicts -> The Orokin Facility holding Lephantis.

Edited July 1, 2014 by SilentMobius

[rangeless]

I am guessing a Stalker was a Warframe which has been subdued to some kind of infested-related disease, causing him to go berserk and stalker-ish with no real agenda other than hunting Tenno down. Forget Vor's Prize. Let's go with Stalker Origins!

[vaugahn]

Personally without more reason assume actual technocyte infection I'm of the opinion that Void power is the Tenno's only defining characteristic. Remember that Hayden's armour was made, and not part of his "infection".

 

IMHO technocyte material is the foundation of the Orokin tech and hence the Warframes but the Orokin gave up on abusing the raw virus after the fall of the Earth in the pre-Orokin era.

 

All of our information about the Tenno and the creation of the Warframes for the sentients war don't mention the technocyte virus at all. However we do have information that a _tenno_ weapon (The Ether blades) were the preferred weapons to used to cleanse infected allies. Indicating that there was an extended period _after_ the fall of the Orokin but _before_ the Tenno entered cryo.

 

IMHO this indicates that either:

 

1. The Orokin released their _new_ experiment (The infestation) against the Tenno after the betrayal

2. The Death of the Orokin resulted in the Infestation breaking out of Orokin holding areas

 

Either way this gives the Tenno something _else_ to clean up before sleeping and a reason to create their non-Orokin designs for replacement Warframes as there would have been resource starvation and attrition during this period.

 

This also explains why all the current infestation seem to be descended from Lephantis, a Key Orokin experiment that was in its _own_ secret facility that the Tenno missed and we only discover by tracing back from uninfected ships -> infected Orokin derelicts -> The Orokin Facility holding Lephantis.

 

The white root things in the void look a little like technocyte to me, perhaps a controlled orokin strain? But it seems to me like the orokin probably created the infested to fight the sentients. It's stated that the sentients can turn technology against the orokin, and that there are special "zero-tech" soldiers, so perhaps the orokin created an entirely biological weapon system (infested guns?) to fight against an enemy with superior control of technology. This could also be another reason why the tenno turned on the orokin, as punishment for creating/unleashing the infestation.

[DJ_Redwire]

Alad V quote:

 

"You have loyalty issues, Tenno. My Zanuka project will fix that for you!"

 

This makes perfect sense if the captured Tenno are mind controlled, much less sense if they are cut up into pieces.

 

All the other quotes are less obvious but still IMHO suggest a living entity. if it there were no such entity why would you need reverse-engineered neural sentry tech?

 

If he could simply cut up Warframes and build something new why experiment on a living Tenno+Warframe in Valkyr? unless he was testing how far he could go _before_ killing the Tenno and rendering the Warframe only good for spare parts.

 

Here is a bunch of evidence to the contrary:

 

Lotus: "If Aladv is victorious today, he will dissect your Warframe and use the pieces to build more of his pets..."

Aladv: "Now play nice Tenno, Zanuka is one of you. Hehe, actually come to think of it, Zanuka is many of you..."

Aladv: "Be careful Tenno, you must make sure not to damage all those parts. Such valuable merchandise..."

 

 

EDIT: Typo

Edited July 1, 2014 by DJ_Redwire

[SilentMobius]

The white root things in the void look a little like technocyte to me, perhaps a controlled orokin strain? But it seems to me like the orokin probably created the infested to fight the sentients. It's stated that the sentients can turn technology against the orokin, and that there are special "zero-tech" soldiers, so perhaps the orokin created an entirely biological weapon system (infested guns?) to fight against an enemy with superior control of technology. This could also be another reason why the tenno turned on the orokin, as punishment for creating/unleashing the infestation.

 

Absolutely, I think that the Tenno were the "act of desperation" and when it looked like the Tenno might win the war the Orokin started looking for something to replace/control the Tenno and finish the Job and turned back to the old-earth technocyte virus to do so. When the Tenno found out they went after the Orokin.

 

we have explicit lines from the Lotus about Lephantis, during the ODA mission:

 

Deep within the millennia old Orokin-turned-Infested ship lurks a creature created to fight in the old War.

 

That indicates to me that Lephantis was the "backup plan" in case the Tenno failed or rebelled.

 

Given the blurb we have about the Sentients war (Excalibur codex, Mag Prime Codex) if the Infestation had been deployed I think it would have been mentioned. It also would have lessened the impact of the "Tenno are monsters to the Human soldiers" vibe that DE seem to want to convey, if you had _actual_ monsters made out of people-mush being deployed the Tenno would have seemed a lot less strange. Also if the moment the Tenno killed the Orokin overlords then a terrible plague descended it would certainly create a lot of resentment in the remaining humans, even if the Tenno beat it back before disappearing.

 

IMHO the key facts are this:

 

1. Regardless of the history of the Technocyte virus the Infestation strain we see in Warframe was created by the Orokin to fight in the Sentients war (as per the Lotus's comments about Lephantis).

2. All Blurb we have about the War doesn't mention the Infestation when it really should if it was deployed.

3. Tenno versions of weapons came _after_ the Orokin originals.

4. There needs to be a time that the Tenno made their own weapons and Warframes before they entered cryo.

5. Tenno weapons (Ether blades) have blurb indicating they fought the Infestation

 

IMHO the timeline that I've outlined is the only one that accounts for all of these facts.

[NevanChambers]

Personally without more reason assume actual technocyte infection I'm of the opinion that Void power is the Tenno's only defining characteristic. Remember that Hayden's armour was made, and not part of his "infection".

IMHO technocyte material is the foundation of the Orokin tech and hence the Warframes but the Orokin gave up on abusing the raw virus after the fall of the Earth in the pre-Orokin era.

All of our information about the Tenno and the creation of the Warframes for the sentients war don't mention the technocyte virus at all. However we do have information that a _tenno_ weapon (The Ether blades) were the preferred weapons to used to cleanse infected allies. Indicating that there was an extended period _after_ the fall of the Orokin but _before_ the Tenno entered cryo.

IMHO this indicates that either:

1. The Orokin released their _new_ experiment (The infestation) against the Tenno after the betrayal

2. The Death of the Orokin resulted in the Infestation breaking out of Orokin holding areas

Either way this gives the Tenno something _else_ to clean up before sleeping and a reason to create their non-Orokin designs for replacement Warframes as there would have been resource starvation and attrition during this period.

This also explains why all the current infestation seem to be descended from Lephantis, a Key Orokin experiment that was in its _own_ secret facility that the Tenno missed and we only discover by tracing back from uninfected ships -> infected Orokin derelicts -> The Orokin Facility holding Lephantis.

It is my opinion that the void energies themselves do nothing to human physiology. We see evidence of earlier incursion into the void by both the corpus and grineer. Yet those corrupted show no signs of powers, nor do we have evidence of any other sort that regular humans get powers from the void. Something special has to be present for the Tenno to get such powers. There are two explanations, one is some random genetic X factor. The other is the interaction between the technocyte infection and the void energies. Given that we are called "Tenno" and not "space ninja god" or some equivalent there is some connection to Hayden and dark sector. The most plausible conclusion is that Tenno were a thing before the Orokin started shoving them into the void to give them powers. The ether blades may very well be pre-orokin Tenno weapons designed to fight the infestation on earth before it was abandoned. Indicating there was a period of time where the tenno fought the infested on earth before the rise of the Orokin empire. Edited July 1, 2014 by NevanChambers

[SilentMobius]

Here is a bunch of evidence to the contrary:

 

Lotus: "If Aladv is victorious today, he will dissect your Warframe and use the pieces to build more of his pets..."

Aladv: "Now play nice Tenno, Zanuka is one of you. Hehe, actually come to think of it, Zanuka is many of you..."

Aladv: "Be careful Tenno, you must make sure not to damage all those parts. Such valuable merchandise..."

 

 

I wouldn't say any of that is contrary. As I said, you have a single living Tenno-in-Warframe and a number of Warframe parts to fuse onto it to supply the various powers.

 

To put it simply:

 

The suggestion of both parts and live tenno fits my hypothesis.

The suggestion of live Tenno being mind controlled works against the hypothesis that no live Tenno are needed.

The suggestion that Warframe/Tenno parts are needed it common to both.

[SilentMobius]

It is my opinion that the void energies themselves do nothing to human physiology. We see evidence of earlier incursion into the void by both the corpus and grineer. Yet those corrupted show no signs of powers, nor do we have evidence of any other sort that regular humans get powers from the void. Something special has to be present for the Tenno to get such powers. There are two explanations, one is some random genetic X factor. The other is the interaction between the technocyte infection and the void energies. Given that we are called "Tenno" and not "space ninja god" or some equivalent there is some connection to Hayden and dark sector. The most plausible conclusion is that Tenno were a thing before the Orokin started shoving them into the void to give them powers. The ether blades may very well be pre-orokin Tenno weapons designed to fight the infestation on earth before it was abandoned. Indicating there was a period of time where the tenno fought the infested on earth before the rise of the Orokin empire.

 

The Void is like "Hyperspace" in other sci-fi settings, it allows you to get from A-to-B breaking the speed of light. The implication here is that there are "energies" in the Void but that the Orokin had technology to _shield_ ships from those energies hence why the Ember codex entry suggests a mis-jump for the Zariman

 

The Zariman was lost making the fold from Saturn to the Outer gates. Mechanical failure. I notified families and filled a report with the inspectors. Nothing ever returns from the fold, so I closed the case

 

We have _ample_ evidence that the Orokin were _very_ comfortable with using the Void as a storage medium (The Towers) and a transport Medium (Ships and Solar Rails) so they must have been very confident of their shielding.

 

The question is what happens to those exposed to the void while _unshielded_ which is, IMHO quite obviously, the point of the Ember codex entry. As we are told most of the time they are never seen again but in the engineered case we are given, the ship returns.

 

Also we have Vor, who is a clone and as such is _highly_ unlikely to posses any kind of X-Factor and yet now possesses an number of abilities he attributes to the power of the Void through the specific Key he has had plugged into his armour/life support for some time now.

 

Finally, the fall of the Earth was IMHO not supposed to be long after the events of Dark Sector, long enough for a lucky, prepared few to make it off the planet to a nearby station but nowhere near enough time to bring tech up to the level of the Orokin.

Edited July 1, 2014 by SilentMobius

[OniDax]

Alad V quote:

 

"You have loyalty issues, Tenno. My Zanuka project will fix that for you!"

 

This makes perfect sense if the captured Tenno are mind controlled, much less sense if they are cut up into pieces.

 

All the other quotes are less obvious but still IMHO suggest a living entity. if it there were no such entity why would you need reverse-engineered neural sentry tech?

 

If he could simply cut up Warframes and build something new why experiment on a living Tenno+Warframe in Valkyr? unless he was testing how far he could go _before_ killing the Tenno and rendering the Warframe only good for spare parts.

 

Also, why did Zanuka get up looking stunned when Alad V's control collar was damaged in the Profit trailer, surely if it was simply a proxy it would go dark and if it was a robot Alad V wouldn't need the collar?

 

_And_ we know that Orokin Neural sentry tech works on the Infestation (Just look at the Corrupted Ancients) unlike Corpus Tech which would explain why Alad V thought he could control/use infested troops.

 

Yeah, I guess. That, or their loyalty is committing their body parts to the Zanuka project. Because I don't remember Zanuka displaying Warframe powers.

Edited July 1, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[vaugahn]

It is my opinion that the void energies themselves do nothing to human physiology. We see evidence of earlier incursion into the void by both the corpus and grineer. Yet those corrupted show no signs of powers, nor do we have evidence of any other sort that regular humans get powers from the void. Something special has to be present for the Tenno to get such powers. There are two explanations, one is some random genetic X factor. The other is the interaction between the technocyte infection and the void energies. Given that we are called "Tenno" and not "space ninja god" or some equivalent there is some connection to Hayden and dark sector. The most plausible conclusion is that Tenno were a thing before the Orokin started shoving them into the void to give them powers. The ether blades may very well be pre-orokin Tenno weapons designed to fight the infestation on earth before it was abandoned. Indicating there was a period of time where the tenno fought the infested on earth before the rise of the Orokin empire.

 

The only time we see present-day entities in the void are in orokin towers and once in a corpus spaceship. I assume these are specially shielded and the tenno were a product of direct exposure (see quotes from the ember prime codex entry)