[De] Things That Are Annoying, Please.

[AdunSaveMe]

This is the last time I will indulge you. You don't think calling assets in the game on the forum of the game annoying is disrespectful and unnecessary?

This is called feedback.

 

People say "I think this is annoying, and this is why".

 

If everyone thought everything new ever was flawless and could not be improved at all, we'd never bloody get anywhere.

Edited July 2, 2014 by AdunSaveMe

[Phatose]

An odd sentiment in regards to shock eximus.  Even if their aura is completely unavoidable - and occasionally they are - that's still not equivalent with "unable to handle it".

 

Recovery from an attack is a test of skill as much as any other.

 

I think you'll find that a portion of the community will disagree that you should be able to avoid everything.  But being able to handle a threat doesn't necessarily mean avoiding it.  Simply figuring a way to survive and recover from it is handling it as much as avoiding it in the first place - but it's very rare to hear any discussion about recovery from a disruptor in threads addressing it.

[Archeyef]

(I invite people to actually read this entire post so's we don't get even MORE misunderstandings.)

One main problem often is that there's no buff and debuff symbol for a lot of things.

Some things have visual cues, like Warcry, effects on the frame, but sometimes it's nice to have an icon on the screen.

Would be great to have a debuff icon for the parasitic eximus.

 

I think one thing enemies should have is the ability to be dealt with equally by all frames.

 

I was whining about Shock eximus units in another thread, and said this;

"You shouldn't have to lock yourself into playing a specific frame just to deal with a single poorly designed enemy that spawns randomly."

 

It doesn't entirely apply here, because that was about Leader units. But the general concept remains the same.

Enemies would be more enjoyable to face, I think, if they could be handled by anyone.

 

Like, for example, you shouldn't have to play a Rhino just to survive toxic procs. You shouldn't have to play Loki just to avoid debuffs.

Because that isn't FUN, at all. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH SKILL.

 

The problem is anti-challenges like the Shock Eximus leaders.

With Ancient Disruptors, you can kill them before they take away your energy. They have to do it by hitting you, close range.

It's a little punishing if one gets you, cos sometimes they do it easily, but you can still avoid it.

 

With the Shock Eximus, you can't avoid it so much.

It can debuff you through walls, through doors, and on different levels, out of sight, from a huge distance.

 

Unlike Disruptors, it doesn't punish you for lapses of attention or bouts of poor skill.

 

It punishes you for being nearby.

 

There are people with a certain attitude that seem to believe that anything that affects you negatively should not be changed.

If you don't like it or you think it's flawed, it's because you're a noob.

 

You keep giving advice specific to frames or situations that do not always apply.

You also kept saying, in my thread, ways to deal with the shock eximus, while completely ignoring half of what I was saying (the part about it being impossible to get to them or find them).

 

It's good that you're giving suggestions. I don't have anything against you personally. But you just aren't reading everything.

A lot of this doesn't apply in a lot of situations.

 

It tends to go like this;

"this is how you deal with it"

"this is why you can't deal with it"

"well this is how you deal with it anyway"

 

See the problem here?

 

I can agree with this. The Exima are a different situation and they do need to be nerfed. Being able to affect you around corners and through walls is an issue. Keep the debuffs line of site, but maybe leave the visual if you get close enough.

 

And the Grineer guardians or whatever they are, the ones that drop the Hek co-ords on Ceres, are another thing that needs to be fixed. Right now they are completely immune to all damage except the one elemental type they are vulnerable to. This completely removes any degree of skill from being useful in beating them, unlike the disruptors. It's simply, do you have the right element? No? Well then you're screwed, have a nice day. It can be fixed by getting the right loadout before going into a mission, but that's at the expense of making your weapons less effective against everything else, simply so you can kill a particular enemy when it shows up, and again, doesn't require any skill.

[Nkomo-Sama]

(I invite people to actually read this entire post so's we don't get even MORE misunderstandings.)

One main problem often is that there's no buff and debuff symbol for a lot of things.

Some things have visual cues, like Warcry, effects on the frame, but sometimes it's nice to have an icon on the screen.

Would be great to have a debuff icon for the parasitic eximus.

 

I think one thing enemies should have is the ability to be dealt with equally by all frames.

 

I was whining about Shock eximus units in another thread, and said this;

"You shouldn't have to lock yourself into playing a specific frame just to deal with a single poorly designed enemy that spawns randomly."

 

It doesn't entirely apply here, because that was about Leader units. But the general concept remains the same.

Enemies would be more enjoyable to face, I think, if they could be handled by anyone.

 

Like, for example, you shouldn't have to play a Rhino just to survive toxic procs. You shouldn't have to play Loki just to avoid debuffs.

Because that isn't FUN, at all. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH SKILL.

 

The problem is anti-challenges like the Shock Eximus leaders.

With Ancient Disruptors, you can kill them before they take away your energy. They have to do it by hitting you, close range.

It's a little punishing if one gets you, cos sometimes they do it easily, but you can still avoid it.

 

With the Shock Eximus, you can't avoid it so much.

It can debuff you through walls, through doors, and on different levels, out of sight, from a huge distance.

 

Unlike Disruptors, it doesn't punish you for lapses of attention or bouts of poor skill.

 

It punishes you for being nearby.

 

There are people with a certain attitude that seem to believe that anything that affects you negatively should not be changed.

If you don't like it or you think it's flawed, it's because you're a noob.

 

You keep giving advice specific to frames or situations that do not always apply.

You also kept saying, in my thread, ways to deal with the shock eximus, while completely ignoring half of what I was saying (the part about it being impossible to get to them or find them).

 

It's good that you're giving suggestions. I don't have anything against you personally. But you just aren't reading everything.

A lot of this doesn't apply in a lot of situations.

 

It tends to go like this;

"this is how you deal with it"

"this is why you can't deal with it"

"well this is how you deal with it anyway"

 

See the problem here?

My frame specific advice was only for a frame specific scenario. The post I replied to was regarding loki specifically in that one situation. I advised how to use energy better. The non frame specific advice is to 1. pay attention 2. block. If you are caught in the shock eximus' effect. The mechanic is simple. When they get too close you get disrupted. So you see the aura you move the other way as fast as possible. Can't do that BLOCK AND REGROUP. If you didn't bring a melee ghan run and don't do that again because it limits your abilities. In addition I think once again only quoting PART of my post yet referring to it's entirety is purposely misleading and an underhanded way of trying to get a point across. Why you chose that reply post to quote I'll never know I have to believe you are better than that.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[AdunSaveMe]

My frame specific advice was only for a frame specific scenario. The post I replied to was regarding loki specifically in that one situation. I advised how to use energy better. The non frame specific advice is to 1. pay attention 2. block. If you are caught in the shock eximus' effect. The mechanic is simple. When they get too close you get disrupted. So you see thr aura you move the other way as fast as possible. In addition I think once again only quoting PART of my post yet referring to it's entirety is purposely misleading and an underhanded way of trying to get a point across. I have to believe you are better than that.

Part of your post was the entire summary of something you were saying in another thread.

 

My apologies for seeming 'underhanded'. I tend to only mean to refer to what I quote in one part of my reply.

 

And it isn't that simple, really. A shock eximus could spawn above or near you. How would you move away in time?

 

 

The non frame specific advice is to 1. pay attention 2. block.

I have to tell you that it is not this simple. That's the problem.

-pay attention to an enemy you can't see or get to, despite them being able to spawn near you, with you in their radius, giving you very little time to get out of it. They move too. If you don't know what direction they're in, you could be running alongside them instead of away from them. This is flawed.

 

There are SOME ways to deal with them, in SOME certain situations. I think it is still flawed, partly because of this.

No other enemy has this aspect.

 

-what does being able to block mean here? I'm not sure what you're trying to say, honestly.

You can't block the energy drain effect, and being able to block does not justify having all your energy stolen. Maybe it's fine if one never uses abilities and doesn't care, some people prefer that. That's just how they enjoy playing.

 

It's nothing against you, personally. But you're saying things I disagree with. That's what an argument consists of.

That's why I'm giving my responses when you give yours. It's nothing against you. 

 

The point of arguments and/or discussions is often to get the better picture or show a person one's views.

 

I might say "this is flawed, because of these". You might say "okay but what about that?"

Then I'd say "maybe it isn't as flawed as I thought, but taking that into account, I still think this could use improvement".

 

Hope you see what I'm getting at.

Edited July 2, 2014 by AdunSaveMe

[Nkomo-Sama]

This is called feedback.

 

People say "I think this is annoying, and this is why".

 

If everyone thought everything new ever was flawless and could not be improved at all, we'd never bloody get anywhere.

But when I reply to a post in the same way it is disrespectful... I see. So if anyone thought an Original post is annoying that is wrong. But posting sometbing in the game that took far more work to produce is annoying that is called feedback and no consideration is necessary. Gotcha  

[AdunSaveMe]

But when I reply to a post in the same way it is disrespectful... I see. So if anyone thought an Original post is annoying that is wrong. But posting sometbing in the game that took far more work to produce is annoying that is called feedback and no consideration is necessary. Gotcha  

I didn't say anything about it or you being disrespectful, but now you kind of are.

 

I said, people say "this is annoying AND HERE IS WHY". That's why it's feedback. Because of the "HERE IS WHY".

 

Many people who give feedback fully understand that it took time to produce, but they also understand that things are open to improvement. Why shouldn't we be allowed to voice our thoughts on things that took a while to make?

 

Pretty sure the developers of games realize this too, or, again, nothing would change and they'd never get anywhere.

Edited July 2, 2014 by AdunSaveMe

[AdunSaveMe]

An odd sentiment in regards to shock eximus.  Even if their aura is completely unavoidable - and occasionally they are - that's still not equivalent with "unable to handle it".

 

Recovery from an attack is a test of skill as much as any other.

 

I think you'll find that a portion of the community will disagree that you should be able to avoid everything.  But being able to handle a threat doesn't necessarily mean avoiding it.  Simply figuring a way to survive and recover from it is handling it as much as avoiding it in the first place - but it's very rare to hear any discussion about recovery from a disruptor in threads addressing it.

As good a point as any. The caustic eximus after all does a massive radial knockdown explosion that often shakes things up a little.

But for the sake of enjoying the game, I personally would much rather test my skill recovering from attacks that were my fault. Like being knocked down. Cos then it's like "okay, I buggered up, how do I not do that again"

Edited July 2, 2014 by AdunSaveMe

[Nkomo-Sama]

Part of your post was the entire summary of something you were saying in another thread.

 

My apologies for seeming 'underhanded'. I tend to only mean to refer to what I quote in one part of my reply.

 

And it isn't that simple, really. A shock eximus could spawn above or near you. How would you move away in time?

 

 

I have to tell you that it is not this simple. That's the problem.

-pay attention to an enemy you can't see or get to, despite them being able to spawn near you, with you in their radius, giving you very little time to get out of it. They move too. If you don't know what direction they're in, you could be running alongside them instead of away from them. This is flawed.

 

There are SOME ways to deal with them, in SOME certain situations. I think it is still flawed, partly because of this.

No other enemy has this aspect.

 

-what does being able to block mean here? I'm not sure what you're trying to say, honestly.

You can't block the energy drain effect, and being able to block does not justify having all your energy stolen. Maybe it's fine if one never uses abilities and doesn't care, some people prefer that. That's just how they enjoy playing.

 

It's nothing against you, personally. But you're saying things I disagree with. That's what an argument consists of.

That's why I'm giving my responses when you give yours. It's nothing against you. 

 

The point of arguments and/or discussions is often to get the better picture or show a person one's views.

 

I might say "this is flawed, because of these". You might say "okay but what about that?"

Then I'd say "maybe it isn't as flawed as I thought, but taking that into account, I still think this could use improvement".

 

Hope you see what I'm getting at.

I see and I can appreciate your civility. I reference the block function as an opportunity to regroup and gather your bearings. This would also be a good time to move. No way around it that energy is gone. I appreciate that and it limits power spamming. I am an avid energy user but it is only part of ones abilities. I think it helps players explore different strategies inorder to be victorious. I like that. I think it is good for the game. I hav been caught by an eximus that I couldn't see yet. Shock, fire, leech, poison(forgot the name) it happens but I don't think that is a bad thing. As a Tenno the things we can do are extremely over powered. It is my opinion that some powered enemies are a great evolution to the game especially enemies that limit oir over powered.abilities.  

[Nkomo-Sama]

I didn't say anything about it or you being disrespectful, but now you kind of are.

 

I said, people say "this is annoying AND HERE IS WHY". That's why it's feedback. Because of the "HERE IS WHY".

 

Many people who give feedback fully understand that it took time to produce, but they also understand that things are open to improvement. Why shouldn't we be allowed to voice our thoughts on things that took a while to make?

 

Pretty sure the developers of games realize this too, or, again, nothing would change and they'd never get anywhere.

It was the context of the reply that you were quoting that you missed. It carried over to you. Sorry about that.

[AdunSaveMe]

 

It was the context of the reply that you were quoting that you missed. It carried over to you. Sorry about that.

 No harm done. 

 

I see and I can appreciate your civility. I reference the block function as an opportunity to regroup and gather your bearings. This would also be a good time to move. No way around it that energy is gone. I appreciate that and it limits power spamming. I am an avid energy user but it is only part of ones abilities. I think it helps players explore different strategies inorder to be victorious. I like that. I think it is good for the game. I hav been caught by an eximus that I couldn't see yet. Shock, fire, leech, poison(forgot the name) it happens but I don't think that is a bad thing. As a Tenno the things we can do are extremely over powered. It is my opinion that some powered enemies are a great evolution to the game especially enemies that limit oir over powered.abilities.  

I see where you're coming from, but I'm of the opinion that challenge is fun.

There's just no denying the fact that these things spawn in places you can't find them or get to them in time.

 

As I said rather silly-like before, might as well add an increasingly random chance to lose all your energy, cos it's practically the same thing.

I think things should be challenging and it should be the work of the player to overcome it. It should require a bit of skill, and a bit of learning.

 

I personally don't think shock eximi hit that mark. It doesn't teach to what to do in a bad situation, or get you to recuperate, it just kinda makes you flip around like a &!$$ed off chicken until you get your energy back.

 

I'm all for enemies that are a bit strong and put Tenno to the test. But this is not one of them.

 

An idea was thrown up in my thread about it silencing you instead, locking your abilities till you kill it but not taking your energy. I think that's a more interesting idea and a better kind of enemy than one that punishes you for being in range.

Edited July 2, 2014 by AdunSaveMe

[Phatose]

Generally I favor avoidability, but I don't put an imperative on it.  Hitscan bullets in the very first mission I ever played made it clear that in this game, I was going to have to deal with unavoidable attacks, and I should just close the game if I wasn't OK with that.

 

That said, avoidable attacks have at the very least an advantage in player perception of whether they're fair or not.  Unavoidable attacks can be completely fair - but even completely fair unavoidable attacks are prone to make players feel helpless, even if there was plenty they could do to survive and recover from them.  Making one very obvious countermove tends to avoid trouble where players have difficulty figuring out a subtle counter and get frustrated.

 

 

That said, I have to look at the disruptor scenario the op put forth and scratch my head, as there was a very obvious mistake.  If your teammate is 200 meters away to begin with, that's a mistake, and running to save him at considerable risk is very likely going to be a second mistake. 

[Nkomo-Sama]

 

 

 

 No harm done. 

 

I see where you're coming from, but I'm of the opinion that challenge is fun.

There's just no denying the fact that these things spawn in places you can't find them or get to them in time.

 

As I said rather silly-like before, might as well add an increasingly random chance to lose all your energy, cos it's practically the same thing.

I think things should be challenging and it should be the work of the player to overcome it. It should require a bit of skill, and a bit of learning.

 

I personally don't think shock eximi hit that mark. It doesn't teach to what to do in a bad situation, or get you to recuperate, it just kinda makes you flip around like a &!$$ed off chicken until you get your energy back.

 

I'm all for enemies that are a bit strong and put Tenno to the test. But this is not one of them.

 

An idea was thrown up in my thread about it silencing you instead, locking your abilities till you kill it but not taking your energy. I think that's a more interesting idea and a better kind of enemy than one that punishes you for being in range.

 

I can meet you half way on the silencing eximus. I say we include it but not replace the shock one maybe tweak the aura effect. Maybe even give it a directional indicator in the HUD like dmg direction indicators. I think that's cool too. Great idea actually with the silencing eximus. 

[AdunSaveMe]

I can meet you half way on the silencing eximus. I say we include it but not replace the shock one maybe tweak the aura effect. Maybe even give it a directional indicator in the HUD like dmg direction indicators. I think that's cool too. Great idea actually with the silencing eximus. 

I'd even just prefer it to have an attack. Something to avoid.

Less of a game of Where's Wally and more something that requires you to do something engaging.

Even if the stupid git fired homing missiles it would be better than Hide and Go Suck All Your Energy.

[fatpig84]

How does a loki get surrounded by 20 infested ?

Do you even put rush or a copter weapon ?

 

But you had to res someone.... But never mind that with the new update, enemies too close to you will see you as bright as day anyway, so even if you have energy, it will do NOTHING against 20 enemies right in your face. They will still punch your skull in.

 

If your teammate is 200m away, one of you must be doing something majorly wrong as well.

Edited July 2, 2014 by fatpig84

[AdunSaveMe]

How does a loki get surrounded by 20 infested ?

Do you even put rush or a copter weapon ?

 

But you had to res someone.... But never mind that with the new update, enemies too close to you will see you as bright as day anyway, so even if you have energy, it will do NOTHING against 20 enemies right in your face. They will still punch your skull in.

 

If your teammate is 200m away, one of you must be doing something majorly wrong as well.

One shouldn't have to run rush if they don't want to, nor use a copter weapon if the same applies.

 

But if you're using invisibility, it's a good idea to actually keep an eye on the timer. if you've got a few seconds left, get away from groups of enemies.

If you're reviving, it's a bit of a different story. I think the invisibility changes need a little bit of tweaking so invisibility isn't rendered as useless.

[fatpig84]

One shouldn't have to run rush if they don't want to, nor use a copter weapon if the same applies.

 

But if you're using invisibility, it's a good idea to actually keep an eye on the timer. if you've got a few seconds left, get away from groups of enemies.

If you're reviving, it's a bit of a different story. I think the invisibility changes need a little bit of tweaking so invisibility isn't rendered as useless.

 

Meh I run Loki long enough to know what makes my Loki survive and I agree OP needs to be a little more alert on invisibility timer or god forbid, cast a decoy just 2 to 3 seconds before it runs out,

 

But the new invisibility changes will not help you in reviving especially against infested that are already corpse humping.

You have to kill em all or divert their attention with a decoy (which cannot be too far away !!!), that is the only usable way so far.

Edited July 2, 2014 by fatpig84