Loki Invis... Just Stop Nerfing It Please

[J-Reyno]

The change did not affect me at all.  I still just run around barely noticed and kill everything.  It's true that sometimes you have to think a little. Some of you scarecrows need to visit the Wizard.

[Monolake]

This change did nothing to effect me...because I use Orthos Prime with Reach almost exclusively:

 

 

 

And other staff weapons sometimes. Everything else is pretty inferior right now (which says something terrible about Melee 2.0; buff other weapons!).

if weapons have forward momentum you are guaranteed to move into enemies and lose invis bonus, cant get more than 2 hits with Amphis

[LukeAura]

It needs more tweaks, but the fact that the more 'stealthy' your weaponry gets, the less effective it becomes at maintaining the stealth bonus probably means the touching alerts enemies should go. 

[Pizzarugi]

Not to derail the subject or anything, but doesn't the AI changes also apply to excalibur's radial blind as well? As far as I know of the game's mechanics, blinding enemies merely forces them into a constant 'alert-yet-unaware' state as if you're invisible while its in effect.

If so, it looks like two (or three, if ash is affected as well) frames have become less godly in power over every other frame.

[Kurochikun]

Hearing shots is one thing, touching is another, as the OP said you lose your stealth bonus sometimes just by getting close to the enemy which makes no sense when the stealth bonus is a MELEE one. So long as you are invisible the melee bonus SHOULD apply the only thing that should change is that you may get shot back, losing the bonus is ridiculous.

 

Again, I'll remind everyone that Loki and especially Ash are OFFENSIVE warframes. Nova can do 200k AOE damage at the same cost of a Smoke Bomb... consider that...

The only way you can constantly spam anything ( and thus become perma invisible) is due to corrupted mods, people not to stop complaining about builds that are focused primarily on spaming because these builds usually mean you have no HP, SHIELDS, SPEED or STAMINA. If we keep focusing buffs and nerfs around abuses of corrupted mods perhaps we should consider nerf the mods themselves not the damn warframes.

I Don't use corrupted mods and I run out of energy pretty quickly, the only way to keep smoke bombing is to manage your spending and switch tactics to sniping or regrouping with the team.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Kurochikun

[fatpig84]

Hearing shots is one thing, touching is another, as the OP said you lose your stealth bonus sometimes just by getting close to the enemy which makes no sense when the stealth bonus is a MELEE one. So long as you are invisible the melee bonus SHOULD apply the only thing that should change is that you may get shot back, losing the bonus is ridiculous.

 

Again, I'll remind everyone that Loki and especially Ash are OFFENSIVE warframes. Nova can do 200k AOE damage at the same cost of a Smoke Bomb... consider that...

The only way you can constantly spam anything ( and thus become perma invisible) is due to corrupted mods, people not to stop complaining about builds that are focused primarily on spaming because these builds usually mean you have no HP, SHIELDS, SPEED or STAMINA. If we keep focusing buffs and nerfs around abuses of corrupted mods perhaps we should consider nerf the mods themselves not the damn warframes.

I Don't use corrupted mods and I run out of energy pretty quickly, the only way to keep smoke bombing is to manage your spending and switch tactics to sniping or regrouping with the team.

 

Doesn't fly with Loki. I have ran perma cloaked loki waay before Energy Siphon was an aura and with Constitution and Continuity. 

 

The only difference is you need to break a few more crate or boxes for energy. Which I even rarely do.

I done entire boss runs with only 1 kill and that is the boss himself. And that is before corrupted mods.

 

Ash will have it harder if you don't carry Locust helmet and Flow.

But 2 forma usually gets him done especially if you switch the V for a (-) and get Energy Siphon.

Edited July 5, 2014 by fatpig84

[TrashSpider]

I rather have intelligent AI, that atleast react to me bumping into, than what they used to be. Beside alot of us were complaining about how dumb the AI were back then. This is rather fresh, and challenging now. 

[Marthrym]

Starting with the end is a bad idea. It might have been a better idea to start with the basic stealth... And only then tweak Invisibility. No?^^'

Oh and I fail to see the challenge... You just have to be careful for a change. Bumping into enemies should have them react to it, it's only logical. Having enemies pinpoint your exact location with 100% accuracy every time they hear a fart... less logical.^^'

 

I've seen players complaining that even silent weapons tend to not work properly either, is that true? I can't say, I don't play Loki all that much...

[Natsusane]

I dont mind if enemies get alerted to my invis if i make noises. Losing the damage multiplier is the thing that bothers me and makes no sense whatsoever. If you look at their reasoning for nerfing radial blind they claim its logical that you cant blind people behind cover etc (Radial Blind also had that multiplier on blinded enemies and it suffers from the same effects that invisibility does atm.) Where i can see that a blinded opponent can still defend himself somewhat in melee it is only logical that you lose your advantage ( the multiplier in this case). However against a completely invisible target it is not possible to defent yourself against his melee attacks, which is why i hope they revert the multiplier loss as soon as possible. Besides its not like the multiplier was op or anything. If you take a look at T4 survival past 40 miinutes you wont do that much dmg even with your invis buff and now that we lost that the numbers are so little that its questionable to use melee weapons on higher lvl mobs at all.

[BrazilianJoe]

The thing with invisibilty vs Radial Blind is that Invisibility basically lasts forever. Radial Blind gives the player a short window to attack comparatively. 

Having damage multipliers to Loki's invisibility would be OP, unless it's countered by some mechanics on other sides. 

And I am a Loki Master Race player. I'm OK with it as is. 

 

Use reach with a Orthos Prime and ask any boss:

 

But will it Blend?

 

[Shuuro]

In short. Stealth abilities (Invisibility and Smoke Screen) can be seen through by sound and touch.

 

Sound? That's perfectly fine. It's perfectly acceptable when I'm firing a sniper with no silencer and everyone in the area hears me. That should be normal.

 

Touch? I'm okay with this, and at the same time, I'm not.

 

If I run into someone, okay. They know I'm there because I just shoulder tackled the damn guy. Makes sense.

 

BUT

 

When I'm losing damage on a stealth ability melee attack, that is disappointing.

 

Many melee weapons are short ranged, daggers, dual swords, Kronen, Nikanas, Claws etc. and nearly all stances, (if not all stances), have combos that move you forward. This pretty much takes away the entire damage bonus from using melee for a lot of weapons.

 

Example, I go up to a grineer with, let's say.. a dagger. I go up to him, shank him, he knows I'm there. Next time I shank him, he somehow takes less damage. How does this make sense?

 

Did the grineer develop some kind of extra sensory ability that can detect movements in the air, so he was fully capable of predicting the trajectory of my blade, as I did a faint to his abdomen then aimed for his jugular? 

 

My point is, if my blade is invisible, you should not be prepared from taking a heavy hit from an attack that could in sense, literately come from no where.

 

Is it fair? Yes, I'll have to say it IS fair.

 

Do I like it? Yes and no. I like the realism that enemies can find me now through sound and touch, what I don't like is seeing 95% of melee being stunted because of melee combos propelling you forward, which makes melee 'less' use-able in end game.

 

 

*Equips Dread and Glaive Prime*

 

Guess I'll be be playing silent death from afar instead of silent death from the shadows.

 

 

Edit: Typos, added example.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Shuuro

[infectedotter43]

I do like the new sound system yes because who isn't going to notice freaking laser beams (phage) killing one of their allies. However I love my kogake and as much as I do i cant use them anymore cause appaerently when I punch an enemy he can definetly defend against my invisible attack. I recently got back into the game after like a year and a half-two year absence, I remember when Loki had a DAMAGE multiplyer not stealth and yes the enemies where stupid but now how they can smell you its very annoying to deal with. Back then I could hit someone and one shot KO them at around level 30ish(Keep in mind this was before Armor 2.0) but now I have to hit them like five times because they can smell my punches.

Edited September 12, 2014 by infectedotter43