What Is The Word "cert" Mean On Wf

[MDRLOz]

Time line of release. 

 

1) PC 

Content creation ---> Create patch ---> Deploy

2) PS4 

Content creation ---> Adjust to PS4 ---> Create patch ---> Submit to Cert ---> Wait/adjust ---> Deploy

 

You can either A) Deploy both together or B) Deploy 1 first multiple time over and allow 2 to catch up and identify some bugs so that 2 is more stable. 

 

How is that not a no-brainer answer? I know PS4 players "feel" hard done by but why is that? You receive the same content (minor issues aside) just a little later that the PC version. 

 

I really really want the next update and I assume you want yours. There is however no need to start calling the whole system unfair. Its very clear what is going on and DE does try and get us content as quick as possible. 

 

What do we gain from delaying PC patches apart from everyone gets to play it at the same time?

Edited July 3, 2014 by MDRLOz

[(PSN)youngn0121]

Don't twist my words.

 

It wouldn't be the same outcome. For starters, DE would be reneging on a promise they made. Secondly, the patches released would be WAY buggier for both platforms because there hadn't been thousands upon thousands of PC players testing the content for a month or two while the update was sitting on the shelf. Thirdly, the bugs would take MUCH longer to fix, because DE would have to delay a 1MB hotfix for PC by at least a week while the fix is ported over to the PS4... And this fix/bug might have been entirely avoidable on the PS4 had PC players found it during the time period that the PC-to-PS4 development was taking place. 

 

I'm not belittling DE's QA team, but I don't think that their QA staff is anywhere on the level with thousands of players.

 

P.S. delaying the PC version of the game won't make the PS4 version release any faster. It would just make it way buggier.

 

 

 

 

 

Ps4 can get hot fixes at the same rate and time as PC so I doubt you really know what you're talking about here.

 

Hell even PS3, PC, and Xbox used to get hot fixes regularly on several different games. You just had to be connected to the internet in order for it to take effect which isnt a concern with Warframe.

[(PSN)youngn0121]

Seem like I only here of a cert process on this warframe. How is it the "rainbow bridge" is not built, but you can easily get owned by PC planes playing war thunder on ps4?

 

The real answer to your question: DE doesn't have the manpower to develop and work on both builds simultaneously which is the main reason why warframe is the only game you ever hear about having this issue and this leads to my next point which is a guess at best but seems likely

 

This whole PW issue is a result of Warframe expending and becoming too much for the in house developers to handle on their own. This deal brings a company who has the resources, personnel, and experiences with working on multiple major platforms.

 

This is just what I'm assuming here 

Edited July 3, 2014 by (PS4)youngn0121

[Brasten]

Ps4 can get hot fixes at the same rate and time as PC so I doubt you really know what you're talking about here.

 

Hell even PS3, PC, and Xbox used to get hot fixes regularly on several different games. You just had to be connected to the internet in order for it to take effect which isnt a concern with Warframe.

This is incorrect, depending in the severity of the "Hotfix". If the the fix touches major code elements the fix has to again be run through Sony's cert process. DE can roll out to PC fixes as soon as they are made (we've seen it happen within an hour). With the PS4 this has to go through the Sony middleman, which can take days.

You see it from other developers even if you don't realize it. Game breaking bugs that go unresolved for a week or more (while the fix that should/could take hours) is held up in the certification process.

Saw this more than enough with Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer which was held in lockstep across all platforms, where they really could have benefited from pushing patches out to PC at the rate DE does with Warframe.

Note some of those early PS4 performance bugs and other issues for Warframe, how long those took to resolve. Those would have been PC Hotfixes the same week or the week after. Not having to wait for a Sony certified patch.

[(PSN)youngn0121]

This is incorrect, depending in the severity of the "Hotfix". If the the fix touches major code elements the fix has to again be run through Sony's cert process. DE can roll out to PC fixes as soon as they are made (we've seen it happen within an hour). With the PS4 this has to go through the Sony middleman, which can take days.

You see it from other developers even if you don't realize it. Game breaking bugs that go unresolved for a week or more (while the fix that should/could take hours) is held up in the certification process.

Saw this more than enough with Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer which was held in lockstep across all platforms, where they really could have benefited from pushing patches out to PC at the rate DE does with Warframe.

Note some of those early PS4 performance bugs and other issues for Warframe, how long those took to resolve. Those would have been PC Hotfixes the same week or the week after. Not having to wait for a Sony certified patch.

 

You don't know what you're talking about

 

Like a stated, hot fixes on ps4 are server side and don't get downloaded unto the system so they don't have to be certified. You just have to have an internet connection which isn't an issue if you're playing Warframe

[MDRLOz]

This is just what I'm assuming here 

You really are assuming far to much. 

 

You assume that DE is inefficient and Sony are instantaneous. 

 

DE employed a whole new team to handle the PS4 side of things. Sony has to then approve it. I doubt Sony has a set warframe cert team. 

 

Also you really forget that this game was and still is designed first for the PC and then ported to the PS4. They don't develop straight to the PS4. 

[Tsukinoki]

You don't know what you're talking about

 

Like a stated, hot fixes on ps4 are server side and don't get downloaded unto the system so they don't have to be certified. You just have to have an internet connection which isn't an issue if you're playing Warframe

And you have no idea what you are talking about.

Hotfixes in this game for quite a few issues we encounter are NOT server side and DO get downloaded.

This game does NOT have dedicated servers and is alll P2P, meaning that the patches are downloaded to the PC and the PS4, which requires going through the Sony cert process for the PS4 side of things.

An example would be some of the numerous trade bugs PC has encountered where some mods were untradeable.

In order to fix it DE had to release a patch that required a download.

If they wanted to keep it in sync with the PS4 version we would then have to wait a few days to over a week in order to be able to trade those mods again, rather than the 3 hours it took DE to take care of it.

There are some server sided patches they do, but those arent the hotfixes that DE sends out with the red text that fixes most of the actual issues in the game.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[MDRLOz]

 

You don't know what you're talking about

 

Like a stated, hot fixes on ps4 are server side and don't get downloaded unto the system so they don't have to be certified. You just have to have an internet connection which isn't an issue if you're playing Warframe

No that... not how.... the.... Data.... You know how.... Needs to download... and the... changing... 

 

 

Thats not how all hotfixes work >< 

 

The PS4 can get a hotfix from sony but DE doing changes to the game will need to be certed. Even if its a small change. A small change would not take long to cert however. 

[(PSN)Budukai_Man]

I do wish things like Clan badges were hotfixed however. That shouldn't be hard to do. I took me a month and a week to get mine =/

[SirSlayer]

Because DE has promised that PC updates will not be delayed for the PS4's sake, meaning the PC will always be a more recent version of the game. And because the two versions won't match up, they can't create a cross-play "rainbow bridge" (which absolutely needs both clients to be the same version).

That is not true. it does not have to be the same exact version.

It only needs to be compatible.

[(PSN)youngn0121]

You really are assuming far to much. 

 

You assume that DE is inefficient and Sony are instantaneous. 

 

DE employed a whole new team to handle the PS4 side of things. Sony has to then approve it. I doubt Sony has a set warframe cert team. 

 

Also you really forget that this game was and still is designed first for the PC and then ported to the PS4. They don't develop straight to the PS4. 

 

How is is Sony's fault that they received the Update last Thursday ( that failed which is Sony's fault too I'm guessing... ) when Pc's build was finished over 2 weeks ago?

 

Bigger studios develop builds simultaneously, DE isn't doing and probably cant do this in their current form on top of the fact that they're expanding into a third console so use logic here to figure out how they would accomplish this

[(PSN)youngn0121]

And you have no idea what you are talking about.

Hotfixes in this game for quite a few issues we encounter are NOT server side and DO get downloaded.

This game does NOT have dedicated servers and is alll P2P, meaning that the patches are downloaded to the PC and the PS4, which requires going through the Sony cert process for the PS4 side of things.

An example would be some of the numerous trade bugs PC has encountered where some mods were untradeable.

In order to fix it DE had to release a patch that required a download.

If they wanted to keep it in sync with the PS4 version we would then have to wait a few days to over a week in order to be able to trade those mods again, rather than the 3 hours it took DE to take care of it.

There are some server sided patches they do, but those arent the hotfixes that DE sends out with the red text that fixes most of the actual issues in the game.

 

I'm not going to sit back and debate something that you obviously dont know about.

 

PS4 can be hot fixed and patches go to cert. It isn't an "hot" fix if it goes through a certification process so I dont know where you all are getting this info from

[(PSN)youngn0121]

 

 

No that... not how.... the.... Data.... You know how.... Needs to download... and the... changing... 

 

 

Thats not how all hotfixes work >< 

 

The PS4 can get a hotfix from sony but DE doing changes to the game will need to be certed. Even if its a small change. A small change would not take long to cert however. 

 

 

Another...Ill be nice and say unenlightened PC player that doesnt have a clue as to what they're talking about.

 

 

"A hot fix is automatically applied at the "Press Start" screen when ------------ is connected to the internet. In general, hot fixes are used to temporarily address issues between major updates. Hot fixes are not permanent -- they are temporarily stored in memory during the game session and lost upon exiting -------------. To ensure that you receive hot fixes, make sure that your system is connected to the internet when ---------------- boots up.

An update contains changes that are permanently stored on your system and only needs to be downloaded once. You can download the latest update by launching -------------- while connected to PlayStation Network. You will be prompted to install the update if you do not already have the latest version."

 

I have a taste for hash browns after being around so many potatoes this morning

[Nantlais]

Wow. So in a way they are saying screw the fanbase of PS4 and get a PC or play the crappy version.

No, not at all. We're basically the first group to test meaning when we get a large release (e.g. U8, U12, Uwhatevernumberitis) all the really awful bugs are picked up on and fixed for the PS4 builds. Also, they're not trying to screw over the PS4 fanbase, they're trying to 1. Make PS4 a better experience 2. Trying not to sound the growth of warframe as a game by limiting update speed to that determined by a completely different company.

In what way exactly are DE trying to get you to "play the crappy version" they give you guys everything they give us with a bit more polish. Sure you get stuff a little slower than us but they aren't limiting what you can get, they're by no means forcing you to migrate to a PC to play the "non crappy version" and if you had a bit more patience you'd have everything we have. Blame sony not DE

[UncommonUnicorn]

*snip*

Or in other words: PC Master Race.

Wow. So in a way they are saying screw the fanbase of PS4 and get a PC or play the crappy version.

Same deal with TES games.

Console version of that franchise get screwed over due to lack of modding capabilities.

[(PSN)clips_ahoii]

Indeed they would.

 

 

And you were twisting my words. "What letter is saying is pc players should always be a step ahead because it's fair". Nowhere did I say "fair". I said that with the way DE is developing the game, delaying the PC version would be shooting themselves in the foot. It would hurt development and result in buggier releases on both platforms, and because the development occurs on PC and since PC has no restrictions for update deployment, for a Beta like Warframe it makes very little sense to delay patches and updates.

 

If the opposite were the case and all of the development occurred around the PS4 and the game was ported to the PC after the fact, I'd say that PS4 updates shouldn't be delayed for the sake of the PC playerbase. 

 

Here's the jist of what I'm saying: delaying updates on any platform regardless of reason is a silly thing to do for a game like Warframe (for a cross platform MMO like FF14 it makes a lot of sense, but for Warframe it doesn't). Warframe is still in its primary phases of development. Radical changes are being implemented. Delaying updates by several weeks or more for a single platform is preventing potential bugs from being found, potential hotfixes from being implemented and potential exploits and loopholes from being patched.

 

 

They'll never be even. The only way to "even" them would be to delay updates, which would cause much more harm than good for both platforms. It would hurt both PC and PS4 players alike.

so how's update 14? Oh snap it got pushed back? How silly is that?

Smh at You hypocritical PC players, with your computer shorts and computer shoes.

[Wiegraf]

Another...Ill be nice and say unenlightened PC player that doesnt have a clue as to what they're talking about.

 

But what you're referring to is an hotfix and/or patch that is recuperated from the servers, which had to have that data already in place. That's server to client.

 

Certification takes place BEFORE the data gets pushed to the servers, either as a hotfix, a patch, DLC, etc. By the time that hotfix CAN be applied to your game by retrieving it from Sony's servers, it has already been certified.

 

1) Data sent from dev to Sony for certification (patch, build, hotfix, DLC, etc.)

2) Sony's certification process verifies the content of the data sent (time varies depending on the nature of the data, if the data is new or modifying existing game code)

2.1) If data is verified as stable and valid, then it is certified and sent to Sony's servers to be made available to the PS4 consoles

2.2) If data has been found to have a flaw, bug or problem, the dev is informed and told what part of the data causes problem to be fixed; returns to step 1)

3) Data is uploaded to Sony's PSN/SEN servers

4) Consoles gets notified of a patch for one of your games and offers you to download and install it / downloads and installs it in Standby Mode

5) If an hotfix, the small cluster of data is retrieved from the servers when the game is launched or at a programmed point in the game (start screen for example)

Edited July 3, 2014 by Wiegraf

[(PSN)youngn0121]

But what you're referring to is an hotfix and/or patch that is recuperated from the servers, which had to have that data already in place. That's server to client.

 

Certification takes place BEFORE the data gets pushed to the servers, either as a hotfix, a patch, DLC, etc. By the time that hotfix CAN be applied to your game by retrieving it from Sony's servers, it has already been certified.

 

1) Data sent from dev to Sony for certification (patch, build, hotfix, DLC, etc.)

2) Sony's certification process verifies the content of the data sent (time varies depending on the nature of the data, if the data is new or modifying existing game code)

2.1) If data is verified as stable and valid, then it is certified and sent to Sony's servers to be made available to the PS4 consoles

2.2) If data has been found to have a flaw, bug or problem, the dev is informed and told what part of the data causes problem to be fixed; returns to step 1)

3) Data is uploaded to Sony's PSN/SEN servers

4) Consoles gets notified of a patch for one of your games and offers you to download and install it / downloads and installs it in Standby Mode

5) If an hotfix, the small cluster of data is retrived from the servers when the game is launched or at a programmed point in the game (start screen for example)

That wasn't from Sony, that was from another developer.

Updates get certified because they are permanent, hot fixes are temporary and don't get certified or even sent to sony. Did you read the quoted text or not?

Go back and read that again the re think what you just posted

[Wiegraf]

That wasn't from Sony, that was from another developer.

Updates get certified because they are permanent, hot fixes are temporary and don't get certified or even sent to sony. Did you read the quoted text or not?

Go back and read that again the re think what you just posted

 

So what you're saying is that any developper can, at will, push data as an hotfix to their game without Sony needing to verify it? What if that hotfix data is purposefully intended to crash your console?

 

As for Sony pushing hotfixes instantly, it makes sense since they're basically verifying their own code live as they're building it for their own console even before it's made available as an hotfix. And since they don't have to notify anyone but themselves, they can simply upload it whenever it's ready. Of course they don't need any sort of hiatus! They've already done all the testing internally so that the data they push has already been verified by themselves! If they damn well want to crash their own console's software by uploading faulty code, they will!

 

---

 

Also, this is deviating from the original purpose of the thread which was asking why Warframe PS4 wasn't inline with the PC build from the get go.

 

So to answer that : PC updates gets pushed by DE's own launcher whenever they want since the PC version doesn't need to pass by Microsoft to tell them it's a-ok to make the update data available for download. PS4, however, has to have the data reviewed by Sony (certification) before it can be made available for download by the users from their servers which hosts the update data.

 

If the versions were to be simultaneous, then by the time the PC update would be ready, it would be put on hiatus while the PS4 started migrating it to their PS4 build and then submit it to certification. Once the PS4 would get the green light, then DE would also greenlight it's own PC build for download.

 

Except DE has decided that the PC build would be made available the moment it was ready to go. And while it's getting migrated to the PS4 build, if bugs are found on the PC version, then they have time to apply the proper fixes to the PS4 build that's currently being prepared for certification.

 

Warthunder doesn't seem to have that problem because they do it in a way that has their PC updates go live once the PS4 build has passed certification. So in reality, the PC version has to wait for the PS4 version to get their update. They just never bothered to tell them "Hey, we're gonna wait on PS4 to give you your update so hang tight while Sony tells us we can go ahead!"

 

Simple.

[Isro]

Ok that about sums it up

 

The basis of your argument is a quote that explains how the client side handles hot-fixes and patches but says nothing about certification or approval processes.  No where does it state or imply that the developer is allowed to deploy a hotfix without it first being approved by SCEA, SCEE, etc. in your quote.

 

You don't know what you're talking about

 

Like a stated, hot fixes on ps4 are server side and don't get downloaded unto the system so they don't have to be certified. You just have to have an internet connection which isn't an issue if you're playing Warframe

 

Another...Ill be nice and say unenlightened PC player that doesnt have a clue as to what they're talking about.

 

 

"A hot fix is automatically applied at the "Press Start" screen when ------------ is connected to the internet. In general, hot fixes are used to temporarily address issues between major updates. Hot fixes are not permanent -- they are temporarily stored in memory during the game session and lost upon exiting -------------. To ensure that you receive hot fixes, make sure that your system is connected to the internet when ---------------- boots up.

An update contains changes that are permanently stored on your system and only needs to be downloaded once. You can download the latest update by launching -------------- while connected to PlayStation Network. You will be prompted to install the update if you do not already have the latest version."

 

I have a taste for hash browns after being around so many potatoes this morning

 

You also stated  that hotfixes "don't get downloaded unto the system so they don't have to be certified." and your own quote says "Hot fixes are not permanent -- they are temporarily stored in memory during the game session and lost upon exiting" which means that they are downloaded...

 

Don't say other people don't know what they are talking about when your own posts contain opposing information.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Isro

[Wiegraf]

I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

Simple.

 

 

Ok that about sums it up

 

 

Alright, I'm not even going to keep trying to make you understand what you view as the process for hotfixing isn't what you think is or what you interpret as it should be or how even something gets transferred from one place to the other over the internet works. You've pretty much just shown you're replying only try to be right even when you're leaving a large fallacy in your statement and disregarding your own original post.

 

Your own opening post was about why Warthunder could get updates at the same time as PC so they could play together and why Warframe couldn't. At some point, you've started comparing the process through which patches and hotfixes from Sony, the first party, compares to Warframe and Warthunder, both third parties with the former having no obligation than to themselves for how valid their code works compared to how they must make sure that code from an outside source need to be analyzed and verified before it can be allowed to be installed on their platform.

 

Then people making it known that unlike Warframe, Warthunder has opted to have their patches released at the same time when the certification from Sony was completed, thus making both builds always be compatible to each other, on either platform.

 

It's not even a matter of platform or console vs PC or me trying to prove I'm somehow right; all I'm actually saying is you're wrong (a very big difference), trying to make you realize it and you refusing to even consider you might be. It's pointless to even continue if your responses, at this point, is merely being childish and obstinate to anyone replying to you with facts or pointing out your own fallacies in comparing a process that is much quicker (or even non-existent) for the first party than it is for third parties. Either that or you're actually resorting to trolling at this point.

 

It's like making a generalization about fruits and how they're all sweet based on eating apples and bananas all the time then acting surprised when you bite into a lemon and find it's sour but still claiming it's sweet. So expect no more replies to you from my end past this one.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Wiegraf

[(PSN)clips_ahoii]

So what you're saying is that any developper can, at will, push data as an hotfix to their game without Sony needing to verify it? What if that hotfix data is purposefully intended to crash your console?

 

As for Sony pushing hotfixes instantly, it makes sense since they're basically verifying their own code live as they're building it for their own console even before it's made available as an hotfix. And since they don't have to notify anyone but themselves, they can simply upload it whenever it's ready. Of course they don't need any sort of hiatus! They've already done all the testing internally so that the data they push has already been verified by themselves! If they damn well want to crash their own console's software by uploading faulty code, they will!

 

---

 

Also, this is deviating from the original purpose of the thread which was asking why Warframe PS4 wasn't inline with the PC build from the get go.

 

So to answer that : PC updates gets pushed by DE's own launcher whenever they want since the PC version doesn't need to pass by Microsoft to tell them it's a-ok to make the update data available for download. PS4, however, has to have the data reviewed by Sony (certification)

it can be made available for download by the users from their servers which hosts the update data.

 

If the versions were to be simultaneous, then by the time the PC update would be ready, it would be put on hiatus while the PS4 started migrating it to their PS4 build and then submit it to certification. Once the PS4 would get the green light, then DE would also greenlight it's own PC build for download.

 

Except DE has decided that the PC build would be made available the moment it was ready to go. And while it's getting migrated to the PS4 build, if bugs are found on the PC version, then they have time to apply the proper fixes to the PS4 build that's currently being prepared for certification.

 

Warthunder doesn't seem to have that problem because they do it in a way that has their PC updates go live once the PS4 build has passed certification. So in reality, the PC version has to wait for the PS4 version to get their update. They just never bothered to tell them "Hey, we're gonna wait on PS4 to give you your update so hang tight while Sony tells us we can go ahead!"

 

Simple.

the PC and PS4 experience different bugs. I don't know how you all are supposed to be testing it out FOR US when we have separate problems.

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

This game release March and Ps4 came out in November, i'm pretty sure Sony and DE had the deal of Warframe since Warframe started, it's not really an all of sudden deal. I never realized having a 8 month start meant you were entitled to every great, while the other system gets left behind  

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

the PC and PS4 experience different bugs. I don't know how you all are supposed to be testing it out FOR US when we have separate problems.

exactly Beta testiing what exactly??? the bugs are still there 

[sedu13]

the PC and PS4 experience different bugs. I don't know how you all are supposed to be testing it out FOR US when we have separate problems.

When 11.5 released, it had one bug where you couldn't build the Karak. Had DE released it on PC in sync with the PS4, both consoles would have that bug. But, they released it on the PC first, fixed the bug in a hotfix and sent it to Sony with the hotfix. Any bugs that surface during translation or due to an incompatibility with the PS4 OS is a different thing.

 

This game release March and Ps4 came out in November, i'm pretty sure Sony and DE had the deal of Warframe since Warframe started, it's not really an all of sudden deal. I never realized having a 8 month start meant you were entitled to every great, while the other system gets left behind  

*Open beta released in March. Sony and DE had a deal of releasing WF on the PS4 and seeing what they could do with it. DE develops on PC and another team ports to PS4. Wanting to slow down the release of updates on PC just because Sony needs to cert is more entitlement than the other option.